No More Non-immigrant O Multiple Entry For Child Support?

[papakapbaan]

No More Non-Immigrant O Multiple Entry for Child Support??

Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 22:55:50 +0700

To: enquiries AT thaiconsul-uk DOTCOM

Attn: Alan Taylor

Hon Consul of Thailand at Hull

Or Whom it may concern

SHORT VERSION:

-Belgian citizen 36 y. old

-Married to Thai woman.

-Not living with wife since 2000.

-Living in Thailand with 2.5 y. old daughter and her Thai mother on multiple entry Non-O visas issued in Penang/Malaysia.

(Visa runs every 3 months)

-Unable to divorce for the foreseeable future and unable to bring daughter to live in Belgium.

-Financial support from bank interests and rental of property in Belgium (transferred monthly to Thai bank a/c)

-Read that multiple entry Non-O visas are no longer issued in Penang.

-Read that "Child Support" with child custody is no longer an option for yearly extension of stay since 01 Oct.2006. Only open to a father... 50 YEARS OLD MINIMUM (???)

-"my" own Thai embassy (in Brussels) particularly unhelpful with visas.

Suggests double-entry tourist visa.

Can I go to Hull?

Would I be able to receive a Non-Immigrant O MULTIPLE Entry (to "Visit Child") from the Royal Thai Consulate at Hull?

I can show:

-My daughter's Thai Birth Certificate with my name on it.

-My Belgian Marriage Certificate (Wife NOT the mother)

-My Thai bank passbook with regular money transfers received from Belgium.

Thanks!

DETAILED VERSION:

Dear Sir/Madam,

I am impressed by your informative web site.

I am a Belgian citizen, 36 years old, married to a Thai woman, currently living in Thailand with my 2.5 years old Thai-Belgian daughter.

It sounds typical enough so far.

However. The woman I am living with (thus: the mother of my daughter) is NOT my wife.

I did not see my Thai wife since 2000.

I used to receive multiple entry Non-immigrant "O" visas from the Thai embassy in Penang/Malaysia for the past 2 years and I did "border runs" every 3 months in order to stay, de facto, permanently in Thailand.

I recently read on Thaivisa.com that this embassy will no longer issue multiple entry visas, only SINGLE entry visas.

Since I receive a monthly income from Belgium from bank interests and rental of property (it can be evidenced as funds from abroad in my Thai bank "passbook"), my intention recently was to apply for child custody (do the legal proceedings) in order to apply for a yearly extension of stay on the basis of "child support".

After the new regulations of Oct.01 2006, it seems this option no longer exists for a 36 years old father. Only left is an option to apply with the purpose: "to LIVE with child".

It seems this option does not require to show any financial means but is only open to a FATHER OF... 50 YEARS OLD MINIMUM.

(???)

What can you do for me?

Would I be able to receive a Non-Immigrant O MULTIPLE Entry (purpose: "Visit Child") from the Royal Thai Consulate at Hull?

I often found that "my" own embassy (in Brussels) was particularly unhelpful with visas.

And this time again: they will suggest I apply for a double-entry Tourist visa.

I do not see it as a valid option since I am NOT a tourist! Besides, I am concerned that tourist visas will soon be "on the front line" and that it will be difficult soon to repeatedly receive tourist visas ("back to back").

I can show the following documents:

-My daughter's Thai Birth Certificate with my name on it.

-My Belgian Marriage Certificate (Wife NOT the mother).

-My Thai bank passbook with regular money transfers received from Belgium.

I would like to add that I am apparently, as things stand now, UNABLE TO DIVORCE for a host of reasons including the fact my Thai wife does not care about this situation (since our marriage was registered in Belgium only, she is, in practice, able to get married again without divorce).

Financial arrangements (to get her in a plane...) could be a possibility but... she is wealthy :-(

There are ways for automated divorce procedures in Belgium (after 5 years) - but in short we are not there yet.

And it involves risks.

I am also UNABLE TO RECOGNIZE MY DAUGHTER WITHOUT THE AGREEMENT OF MY WIFE AND THUS UNABLE TO BRING MY DAUGHTER TO LIVE WITH ME IN BELGIUM FOR MORE THAN 3 MONTHS (that would be on "Tourist"/"Sponsored" visa!).

Thank you for your attention and sorry for this lengthy email.

I wanted to make it clear that while I have apparently very few options left, I am in a "genuine situation".

Sincerely,

papakapbaan

(PapaGoHome)

[endure]

I stand to be corrected but I think you'll find that you have to be a UK resident in order to get a visa from a UK Thai consulate.

[Mahout Angrit]

You certainly have to be in the UK to apply

they wont post passports between countries.

[gpt]

Does Belgium have a similar divorce law to the UK? If you have been separated for 2 years, you can get divorced if both parties agree. If more than 5 years, you can be granted a divorce even if the other party does not agree. I may have over-simplified things here.

[papakapbaan]

Endure: "I stand to be corrected but I think you'll find that you have to be a UK resident in order to get a visa from a UK Thai consulate."

Yes, this thought actually crossed my mind when I clicked to send the email 5 days ago..................

It might explain why there is no reply from the consulate after 5 days :-(

Is it a rule specific to consulates and not embassies??

Where should I go for a very legitimatee Multiple Entry Non-O refused by "my" Embassy, then?

Mahout Angrit: I plan to visit the consulate in person, no problem. No postal service.

[marshbags]

Doesn,t age come into play for this type of visa ?

I seem to recollect a referrence to being over 50 in one particular visa enquiry / thread.

I,ve tried to locate the same in a search and scroll back for info but cannot find it, sorry.

Help needed, please mods, if possible to expand on this, per over 50

marshbags

[papakapbaan]

gpt : "Does Belgium have a similar divorce law to the UK? If you have been separated for 2 years, you can get divorced if both parties agree. If more than 5 years, you can be granted a divorce even if the other party does not agree. I may have over-simplified things here. "

Yes, probably similar.

Some problems in my case are (in short) :

-It must be proved that the relationhsip ended at least 5 years ago.

Officially my wife and myself were still living in Belgium together until recently.

(I finally recently got a police report that she is not present at the address anymore...)

-She will be notified absolutely for sure. The "automated" procedure is just to some extend...

If she provides a wrong picture of the situation and they "receive" her wrong picture, the level of the alimonies might be set much too high to my taste...

Any level of alimony would be mind blowing since she is quite wealthy. But who knows......

You know: along the lines: "Thai girl abused and trashed by Westerner".

(If anything, it's the complete reversed situation. But who knows......)

[lopburi3]

Doesn,t age come into play for this type of visa ?

I seem to recollect a referrence to being over 50 in one particular visa enquiry / thread.

I,ve tried to locate the same in a search and scroll back for info but cannot find it, sorry.

Help needed, please mods, if possible to expand on this, per over 50

marshbags

If over age 50 the wording of 606/2549 is that you are allowed to live with your Thai child and there is no mention of any financial requirement. This has been accepted in Bangkok for those assisted by at least one law firm but have not seen anyone report doing it themselves or outside of Bangkok.

[papakapbaan]

marhsbags: "Doesn,t age come into play for this type of visa ?

I seem to recollect a referrence to being over 50"

Yes, sure.

Since 01/10/2006, you need to be at least 50 years old to EXTEND this type of visa for 1 YEAR on the basis of being the father/mother of a Thai child. (To "LIVE WITH" NOT "TO SUPPORT" as pointed out by the specialists/sponsors here Sunbelt Asia)

(I think Sunbelt wrote somewhere that it was "NUTS". Could not agree more!)

Since 01/10/2006 it also appears that the MULTIPLE entry version of this visa is NO LONGER available for a father/mother of a Thai child.

HOWEVER SINGLE ENTRY NON-O ARE STILL BEING ISSUED TO FATHERS/MOTHERS.

NON-O *IS* the correct visa in my case.

For ex: A double entry TOURIST visa, as suggested by the Thai embassy in Belgium, is NOT a valid visa in my case.

It is part of what I'm temped to describe as the GERIATRIC PARADIGM of the Thai Immigration Law with the magical number 50 now everywhere :-0

[pschef]

QUOTE name='papakapbaan' date='2006-12-16 11:41:23' post='1035400']marhsbags: "Doesn,t age come into play for this type of visa ?

I seem to recollect a referrence to being over 50"

Yes, sure.

Since 01/10/2006, you need to be at least 50 years old to EXTEND this type of visa for 1 YEAR on the basis of being the father/mother of a Thai child. (To "LIVE WITH" NOT "TO SUPPORT" as pointed out by the specialists/sponsors here Sunbelt Asia)

(I think Sunbelt wrote somewhere that it was "NUTS". Could not agree more!)

I think Greg Sunbelt wrote he found it strange, but however it will help many people.

Since 01/10/2006 it also appears that the MULTIPLE entry version of this visa is NO LONGER available for a father/mother of a Thai child.

HOWEVER SINGLE ENTRY NON-O ARE STILL BEING ISSUED TO FATHERS/MOTHERS.

Hi Guys me for one is very happy they added a small exception to the new rules, being a GERIATRIC over 50. But maybe Thai immigration wanted to add some light at the end of a long tunnel, as everyone knows in Thailand. Many Farrang with Thai Children, prehaps they are OBSERVING the Thai family law. States under no circumstance should a CHILD BE SEPERATED FROM ITS RIGHTFULL FAMILY.

It is part of what I'm temped to describe as the GERIATRIC PARADIGM of the Thai Immigration Law with the magical number 50 now everywhere :-0

Maybe but if the cap fits??? BTW feel sorry for Papa go Home

[jackk]

-Married to Thai woman.

Get a Thai translated (and legalized) copy of your marriage certificate and go to Singapore to get a O multi. They won't ask you any questions about your wife.

[papakapbaan]

Thanks for the tip, Jackk!

Get a Thai translated (and legalized) copy of your marriage certificate and go to Singapore to get a O multi. They won't ask you any questions about your wife.

Amazing.

I actually suspected long ago that it might be the case!

So: It is more important to be married on paper than to actually take care of your child(ren).

But.

I can not show any (copy of) ID card of the wife. Will it be OK without copy of ID card??

In practice she is really an ex-wife!

Again and again the Thai system forces good people to present themselves under false pretences :-0

[papakapbaan]

pschef:

I think I remember reading some post from you where you said something to the effect that never ever would the Thais stop issuing multi-entry visas to parents of Thai children.

Sorry. Here we are. NO MORE MULTI FOR DADDY (PAPA).

(If it was not you, no big deal anyway)

Now you write:

The Tai Law States under no circumstance should a CHILD BE SEPERATED FROM ITS RIGHTFULL FAMILY.

Do you have references, thanks??

Quite interesting for possible legal proceedings soon! :-0

[deminister]

I stand to be corrected but I think you'll find that you have to be a UK resident in order to get a visa from a UK Thai consulate.

Not at all. You can get your visa anywhere. (especially in the european Union). Best is to opt for a one year multiple entry non imm B visa. You will not get a 1 year visa, you have to leave the country every three months.

[phuketrichard]

Thanks for the tip, Jackk!

Get a Thai translated (and legalized) copy of your marriage certificate and go to Singapore to get a O multi. They won't ask you any questions about your wife.

Amazing.

I actually suspected long ago that it might be the case!

I was married to a thai and then divorced and until I was 50 used my marriage certificate to obtain a 1 year multiply entry type 'o" visa in singapore,

Never any questions.

I have other friends that are also have been married (but now divorced) and do the same. Last one did it in Nov. this year

Singapore is the place to go

[papakapbaan]

tod-daniels: Thanks for interesting bits of information.........

"There is no real qualification for the issuing of this visa as recently as September"

Sorry, that's not recent enough.

Something is telling me the stories you relate above are HISTORY.

I wish I am wrong, for sure.

We are still waiting for any report here on TV that:

1) MULTI ENTRY NON IMMIGRANT visas are still being issued ANYWHERE in SE-ASIA.

(Everybody reports SINGLE ENTRY ONLY (at least since DECEMBER), be it for O or B types)

2) "Friendly" consulates keep issuing NON-O to unqualified people

I BET 1) and 2) are HISTORY after 01/10/2006.

But, as a legitimate applicant for a MULTI NON-O, I still hope I'll be able to get one... somewhere!

Again: the plan is not to use postal services.

I am ready to travel back to Europe - anywhere - for a MULTI.

[Big Guy]

Multiple entry o visa's still exist as I was issued with one two weeks ago in Perth Australia, on a new zealand passport. I produced a copy of my sons thai birth certificate and my flight details to Thailand and was issued one in 2 hours.

[Big Guy]

Forgot to say I am only in my early 40s

[jumnien]

A wise old man once told me that 99% of the things he worried about never happened and that he wished he hadn't wasted so much of his life worrying about them.

This seems to be very applicable wisdom regarding the visa situation. It'll all work out... if it doesn't worry about it then. Until then, just keep a positive attitude, utmost respect for others, and do what you can to help your situation and others - and let go! As John Lennon sang, "Turn off your mind, relax and float downstream...."

[phuketrichard]

GREAT!!!

i assume you got it on only to go stay with your kid right?

Did they ask about the wife or anything??

[papakapbaan]

Thanks so much Big Guy!

Seems Perth is the place to visit, then!

I said reports indicate there are no more MULTI available IN SE-ASIA.

I did not read any report about Australia until now!

Well. If I am ready to go back to Europe, I am surely ready to visit Australia.

2 WEEKS AGO, right? <--Anybody can confirm maybe?

[trihent]

<quote>HOWEVER SINGLE ENTRY NON-O ARE STILL BEING ISSUED TO FATHERS/MOTHERS.Hi Guys me for one is very happy they added a small exception to the new rules, being a GERIATRIC over 50. But maybe Thai immigration wanted to add some light at the end of a long tunnel, as everyone knows in Thailand. Many Farrang with Thai Children, prehaps they are OBSERVING the Thai family law. States under no circumstance should a CHILD BE SEPERATED FROM ITS RIGHTFULL FAMILY.</quote>

I had heard this also, but was given the impression that this was a custom and not a law per se. I would very much like someone to post the a reference to the exact regulation, as not only would this information help me but several other expats that I know.

Thanks

[Tod Daniels]

Youre right that a Non-Immigrant Multy Entry Type O Visa issued before Oct 1 by Hull is old news, but...

The story below however IS fact. I have seen the Non-Immigrant Type O Visa stamp in his passport.

My friend left Thailand, got the exit stamp, went to the Philippines, sent his passport by DHL to another friend in the US. That person in turn sent it to a 'friendly' Consulate along with the application, photo, fee and a pre-addressed postage paid envelope his US address. The consulate issued the visa, mailed the passport to the US address, and his friend DHL'd the passport back to the Philippines. Total turn around time 8 days.

Total Cost;

R/T to the Philippines

Hotel for 9 days

Visa application fee

2 DHL Worldwide Fees.

Peace of mind for having another 15 months in LOS w/just 90 day runs to the border, PRICELESS

Again, some of the US Consulates are not concerned about qualifications of the visa they issue, some are, I would check w/them first. When I went back to the US & got my 3rd Non-O this year, they said if I wanted it stamped as O-A Long Stay they would do it. I am under 50 & thought I 'might' have problems reporting to Thai Immigrations here in Bangkok after the first 90 days, so I just took another "O"

As far as my friend's application; they weren't concerned he was officially still "in" the Philippines, as he had no exit stamp. Their only concern was the envelope containing the passport originated from and returned to a US address.

While this is not officially 'on topic', as the initial poster asked about Hull, I would say it is good evidence that at least some Consulates still have what is known as a 'soft touch' when it comes to Visa applications, types, and the qualifications needed to have them issued.

Good Luck,

ท้อด แดเนียลส์: กรุงเทพมหานคร

Tod Daniels; Krung Thep Mahanakhon

[lopburi3]

Believe visa so issued would be considered invalid and am very sure any immigration officer that notices he was in the PI when it was issued will refuse to accept it.

[Maestro]

Tod-daniels, while reading your post I thought for a moment that your friend might have discovered the formula to square the circle but Lopburi is right: there is that tell-tale chronology of stamps in his passport.

1. Thai exit date

2. Philippine entry date

3. Visa issue date

4. Philippine exit date

5. Thai entry date.

Has your friend already entered Thailand with his new non-O visa obtained under No. 3 above? If yes, was he admitted for 90 days?

Somebody else reporting a similar attempt earlier this year was given only a 30-day visa-exempt entry stamp and his non-O visa was cancelled.

--

Maestro

[papakapbaan]

Yes, I am not really interested in this sort of "schemes".

(But thanks, tod-daniels. Maybe as a last recourse one day...)

I note that a LEGITIMATE APPLICANT in neighbouring Thai embassies (Malaysia, Singapore, Hong Kong, Laos...) is now being refused the SAME MULTI ENTRY NON-IMMIGRANT O VISA that is apparently given to ANYBODY (and his dog) at some "friendly" consulates around the Western world!

(More probably: WAS given to anybody until 01/10/2006)

Well. Let me say: I HAVE NO PROBLEM with this situation.

THE MESS OF THE VISA RULES/EXTENSION OF STAY RULES IN THAILAND is indeed begging for this sort of situation to arise.

(SOM NAM NA to Thailand if some Thai consulates in the Western world understand what they have to do!!! :-0)

As long as there is some sort of "justice"!...

Where do I go for my NON-ON MULTI ENTRY??? ;-0

Big Guy above suggested Perth? Anybody else had a recent experience with MULTI NON-O at PERTH?

[pschef]

The Tai Law States under no circumstance should a CHILD BE SEPERATED FROM ITS RIGHTFULL FAMILY.

Do you have references, thanks??

Quite interesting for possible legal proceedings soon! :-0

Sorry but I never posted any such thing, I maY HAVE SAID. Refer to Thai Family Law. I will Pm and uplaod the document I have. I think it is to protect the child from possible abuse. EG father gets sent home. Mother cant support, so someone can adopt the child. I will send what I have. Cheers Pappa at home

[jackk]

So: It is more important to be married on paper than to actually take care of your child(ren).

Maybe because they think your Thai wife will force you to spend more money in LOS

But.

I can not show any (copy of) ID card of the wife. Will it be OK without copy of ID card??

No problem in SG, at least for the last 2 months. I renewed mine end october and unlike Penang in the past, they didn't ask for wife ID card.

By the way, next time you get married with a Thai, first thing to do is to scan and keep a copy on your PC of all her documents (ID car, passport ...). Thai girls always loose/damage them, so better safe than sorry

[dr_Pat_Pong]

I stand to be corrected but I think you'll find that you have to be a UK resident in order to get a visa from a UK Thai consulate.

There's no residential requirement at all, but you must be in the UK to be able to apply. The stories about posting ones passport to friends in the UK and having them apply for you there will only result in an unlawful visa if indeed one did issue ( which would be unlikely ). Exit and arrival stamps in the passport would not be evident for a start, and Thai Immigration computers would pick it immediately.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Yes, I am not really interested in this sort of "schemes".

(But thanks, tod-daniels. Maybe as a last recourse one day...)

I note that a LEGITIMATE APPLICANT in neighbouring Thai embassies (Malaysia, Singapore, Hong Kong, Laos...) is now being refused the SAME MULTI ENTRY NON-IMMIGRANT O VISA that is apparently given to ANYBODY (and his dog) at some "friendly" consulates around the Western world!

(More probably: WAS given to anybody until 01/10/2006)

Well. Let me say: I HAVE NO PROBLEM with this situation.

THE MESS OF THE VISA RULES/EXTENSION OF STAY RULES IN THAILAND is indeed begging for this sort of situation to arise.

(SOM NAM NA to Thailand if some Thai consulates in the Western world understand what they have to do!!! :-0)

As long as there is some sort of "justice"!...

Where do I go for my NON-ON MULTI ENTRY??? ;-0

Big Guy above suggested Perth? Anybody else had a recent experience with MULTI NON-O at PERTH?

Perth, Brisbane and Adelaide are all reasonable Consulates.