MAJIC

I suppose another way of looking at Vote Buying is:

If one was going to Vote for a certain Party and/or Politician,then it would be sensible to also take the money,as you were going to Vote for them anyway!

It becomes more Undemocratic,when one sells out to the Highest Bidder.purely for the money,with no conviction involved.

Also i'm sure there are checks in place to prove that you did vote for the Candidate/Party, who paid for your Vote.

Or maybe staying in Thailand too long, has corrupted my views?

Old saying: "You get what you pay for" and if they are happy to be bought, then let them reap the consequences.

Sounds like your average Thai woman Temper Tantrums.

How do you make someone grow up?

Voted yes, but I will soon close my profile/account there.

The whole Facebook experience is getting a bit too silly I think.

Just a personal opinion.

Agreed

last time I went on, there was about 400 invitations to be friends with,its like a pyramid scheme that spreads out, if I said yes to them all,next time I would get thousands of invites, and all to people I dont know and have no wish to.

It also invades privacy,and if someone puts your photo on,you cant delete it.

Someone once asked me to play a stupid game,and feed his animals,while he was on holiday,otherwise the game would end with dead animals.

Overated and stupid,in my opinion.

Not forgetting the stalking and pedo element .

I don't find the internet anonomous whatsoever, I feel now that people are actually going to read this so that I have to be careful with grammar and spelling just for starters, then opinions are even more circumscribed. I am over 65 years old, I wonder if it is an age thing or just different personalities. (pause there to look-up circumscribe) .

What does circumscribe mean? .

c

Limit, Restrict, Draw a line around.

I had to look it up too.

Sounds like you really found an absolute Gem there, Swissie!

Just wondering what a hypocrite is composed of.

On Thai Visa its usually those that are overprotective of Thailand and the criticism of the bad points of living in Thailand,

whilst never having a good word to say about their own Country,which I find very strange.

In short they are selectively blinded to the obvious faults in Thailand, a Country which will give them nothing.

But the same people are not averse to denigrating their own Country,which has given them everything in the past,including the wherewithal to reside here. But that does not stop them from constantly slagging off their own Country.

So should there be a censorship on discussion,where Thailand is concerned? to placate the Rose Tinted spectacle Brigade?

My take on a hypocrite in this instance.

Yes I know! (sigh) when you can't deny what you see is wrong with Thailand with your own eyes, then don't complain or discuss it on TV.............."just go home" ......which this Post will surely descend to!

Thais can't hold their liquor? - THais can't do this, Thais can't do that...THEY aren't capable of......the trouble with Thais is......

the problem here is pure racism on the part of some posters.

This is a robbery - same as anywhere - some unpleasant people involved - assuming the reports are accurate - which is unlikley

Robbery and Grievous Bodily Harm, By a pack of Animals,

Big Difference!

If you need to ask the question, then you probably won't take a blind bit of notice,of the answer!

But here it is anyway: you most certainly are being taken for a ride,but more to the point a complete Mug.

Listen to your Thai Mate.

As they were imported copies,it is almost certain to have come from China,

which is where the blame for copies sent worldwide,should rest .

But who will try to sue Chinese Manufacturers? for their massive infringements of intellectual Property?

I am constantly amazed at people trying to white wash the most evil behaviour using various methods, most common being, it happens everywhere. Im sorry but in Canada we do not have a culture of 6 men beating on a lone woman, we simply do not, you might find one lone crazy that is capable at any one time but 6 men together all sharing the same evil outlook on life and perpetrating in public with no shame whatsoever? Not a common event like it is here. There is a basic sense of right and wrong that is simply completely missing in this country.

"There is a basic sense of right and wrong that is simply completely missing in this country." ... you cannot be more correct ... Thais are not wired like those from socially and spiritually enlightened societies.

... I've have been here more than a decade now, where I have lived and worked very closely with Thais ... professional, highly educated and well-travelled Thais, and the unfortunate upcountry prai who labor at the bottom of a truly foul feudal system ... I've raised abandoned Thai kids, and dealt with the nightmares that pass as their wretched families ... I think I know Thais ... quite well.

... as you, I don't see this as another isolated incident ... this behavior is pervasive, a consequence of a broader system of values ... I have struggled a great deal with Thailand and conclude that the root of it's problems emanate from it's cultural values ... how a nation is characterized, as a people, can all be attributed to it's cultural values ... developed over generations ... sustained by the momentum and collective will of the institutions under which the nation is organized ... it's systems of politics, bureaucracy, commerce, laws, religion, education, powerful families, etc.

... Thais true nature is difficult to see by most passers-by ... one of these cultural values itself, that perpetrates the misunderstanding of Thai true nature, is to conceal uncomfortable truths behind insincere wais and smiles (great material for tourism advertisements), belieing the reality of their lot ... we see this daily, all around us.

... this incident is shameful, and draws a lot of fire, but it is not really so uncommon an event for those of us who have gotten an up-close view into the lives of the common Thais ... they comprise the overwhelming majority of this enigmatic nation.

... my belief is that Thai cultural values are inferior ... by any broadly accepted standards of decent, humane behavior ... it is a strong statement, and one I do not make lightly ... I've seen a lot of this world, having lived in 10 countries, so make that statement with some sense of perspective ... I understand tribal, survivalist values ... they are instinctive and without soul and conscience.

... Thailand is at best standing still in its societal evolution ... worse, is that it might well be moving backwards, toward behaviors commonly accepted in Sub-Saharan Africa.

... my greater sadness, is that there appears no Thai institution strong enough, or motivated, to resist this social decay that is eating at the very guts of this nation.

... a very thin veneer, appearing as modernity and civility, seems to sustain Thailand's image to those who have not scratched beneath the surface ... but, it seems to me that Thailand is in an inexorible spiral, returning to a primitive, less civil, less humane form of society.

... to those who have been here for 5+ years; have the perspective of living in other cultures; and, had the opportunity to get up close and personal with Thailand: have I overstated the case?

A very insightful post, thank you.

NO, A very clear and rational Post, and Sadly all too True

In my opinion,the lack of respect for neighbours right to a little peace in their home,stems from a misguided way of thinking,

e.g Noise = Fun

Peace and Quiet = Boredom

When the Village Speaker starts with loud music and raised voices at 6am,its easy to see where it all started.

Unfortunately, ignorance is usually too ingrained to change, and thats the problem they don't think they are doing anything wrong.

A common misconception.

Cannabis can cause Scizophrenia,Paranoia,Depression, Deprivation of drive and lack of interest in life,

among many other less serious side effects.

Look it up!

Reading posts like yours on ThaiVisa and other forums can cause Schizophrenia, Paranoia, Depression and can sap Motivation levels and might induce my requesting my username be changed to whybotherII. Among many other less serious side-effects.

I'd tell you to "look it up", but someone too lazy to post supporting 'evidence' will certainly be too lazy to actually look up anything.

You realise something like 70% of the US adult population has smoked pot, right? It's effectively decriminalised in most developed nations. Legal in Holland. California had a Proposition to regulate it recently, narrowly missed out - the next one will be passed. Nixon was a tool. The current US President has admitted to smoking pot and doing cocaine in his youth. Some Republicans would no doubt disagree, but he looks pretty sharp to me ('seared brain', notwithstanding). You'd have to be an idiot to smoke pot (in my opinion), but I would not kill or imprison people who disagreed with my opinions. Not even stoners. It's my opinion you'd have to be a moronic idiot to smoke cigarettes, and I smoke plenty of them. What I do is stupid, but being forced to accept the reality that people are being incarcerated for doing something less stupid than my pack-a-day habit? It's outrageous.

Ecstasy will be legalised in the UK within a few years:

Former Britain Home Office Minister & Defence Secretary Bob Ainsworth To Argue For Legalization Of All Drugs

British Drug Tzar Professor David Nutt: "The only drugs more harmful than alcohol are heroin, cocaine, barbiturates & methadone. LSD & ecstasy less harmful than tobacco."

Legalise all drugs: Britain Chief Constable demands end to 'immoral laws'

When The Guardian is demanding an end to the insanity with Editorials titled Prohibition's failed. Time for a new drugs policy and The war on drugs is immoral idiocy whilst the former President of Brazil is attempting to save South America from becoming failed states like Mexico (Fernando Henrique Cardoso: "It is time to admit the obvious. The 'war on drugs' has failed."), it's inevitable that it will be sooner rather than later that the madness will end. When it does, it will end with the anticlimactic puff seen in the Netherlands and Portugal and Argentina when they decriminalised.

Prohibition kills. The blood of every innocent is on the hands of the world's governments (who all manufacture illicit drugs). Only the very deluded (or the very corrupted) are ever confused about whether Supply creates Demand...or whether Demand Creates Supply.

The arguments I make are irrefutable unless you are able to re-code human DNA. Until you can, you cannot refute the sheer logic evident in the above arguments.

Indeed,Judging by the long winded barrage of your Posts, in which most people can't get a word in edgways,"whybother II" for a new username,would be very appropiate.

And usually, most people are capable of doing their own research!

Taksin is clearly not a reasonable man. Absolute power is his aim. I think that is pretty clear. That is why he was removed. Like all dictators he would not compromise and work with others. In fact, as I remember at the time, it seemed he was running everything personally with everyone else just carrying out his orders. The press lived in fear of being sued (or receiving death threats) if they said anything against Taksin and his governemt. Government and democracy does not work this way. The country cannot be run by one man alone; it needs to be run by a government, whose head is the PM who provides guidance. The processes of voting in parliament/senate provides the checks and balances to ensure the right decisions are made and the system is not totally corrupted.

Regarding the red shirts: why do they have to operate in the way they do? Why can't they use the parliamentary and democratic processes that are already in place? If they want to rule, they need to persuade the majority that they are the best party to run the country, and then win a general election. To do this, they need to operate within the law and win the hearts and minds of most Thais. What is their approach: a communist revolution? Well that didn't work anywhere. Everyone knows their agenda is to get Taksin off the hook and back in power. Why is one person so important? Politicians come and go; its the normal political process where no one totally controls the system.

Think Simple Here....... The Paymaster Returns?

What a crock of sh1t, and a terribly uninformed article from a crappy Toronto-based tabloid. Hope it gets hit by a libel case.

Care to explain why a libel case would be justified?

The Toronto Star is not a tabloid and it has won numerous awards for outstanding journalism. It is probably the largest circulation newspaper in Canada and its only competitor is the Globe & Mail which is a national newspaper. You may wish to reconsider who might get hit by a libel suit with an ignorant comment like yours. If you are angry about Thaksin, that's your problem. Don't take it out on a newspaper for carrying the interview. The paper should be commended for offering insight into a subject most Canadians are oblivious to. Papers like the Tupelo Express and the Sao Paulo review don't run original international stories like this.

For a paper with such high journalism standards as you say, perhaps you can explain why they did not ask a single difficult question. You don't suppose they were spooned fed this as an easy story by Amsterdam do you?

Sample questions

If you, as you claim, don't know any of the UDD, how do you explain your meetings with the leaders leading up to April/May protests? Are you scheduled for a phone to address a rally this weekend?

Did the government not sit down with the UDD in the first days of the protests and offer to negotiate a way to have early elections? The meetings were shown on Thai national television, one of the leaders received a text as it became apparent one of the other UDD leaders was becoming receptive to a negoaited settlement, was that text from you? Why did the UDD leadership walk away from those meetings?

What is your reaction to comments made by Seh Deang, widely reported locally, on the day he was killed saying you had dismissed the moderate leadership and him and the radical were now in charge and would fight to the end?

So on and so. That is real journalism. What this article is nothing more the a hack taking the easy way out with an unquestioned PR feed from Amsterdam.

TH

And what about:

Mr. Thaksin, you claimed in our interview here that you "don't know" the people in UDD. Would you care to comment on these photos showing you meeting with various members of UDD, or quotes from Jatuporn and others that you had phoned them?

And another question: why bother with regular video phone ins,in large hired venues,alledgedly to incite the UDD? members,if you "don't know" them?

To the routine annoyance of people within ear-shot, I can normally talk for England,

but this report, assuming it is totally accurate, makes me speechless with gloom and

sorrow.

Anyone else having second/third/fourth....thoughts about living in this cruel land ?

(given the endless stream of bad-news....perhaps just stop reading TV altogether.)

And before anyone jumps up with the usual: Bad things happen everywhere, even

in cuddly England...absolutely right....but I bet you cannot come up with any story of

a gang descending on and beating a lone woman for trying to sell a few items of fruit ?

Behind all the gold decor, posing in pastel shirts, and quaint mannerisms, Cruel LOS ?

No your right... this kind of shit just doesn't happen in England or the U.S. ... we are far too civilised for groups of men to be beating the shit out of defenseless women for something as petty as selling goods on someone elses supposed turf.

But doing it for fun..now that's a different matter..

Heres a little selection it took me all of 10 seconds to find...

http://www.createpea...manmurdered.htm

http://www.theargus....ver_work_again/

http://www.topix.com...TNDJ7QUMN101RSI

By all means be disgusted at what happened to this woman...undoubtedly these guys are scum...but don't give it the self righteous 'this shit don't happen back home' nonsense, because it does and far worse...And if you watch some of the documentaries on Chinese cockle pickers on the beaches of England the exact same shit happens ...

I knew it wouldn't take long for one of you to drag the United States into this incident.

I Agree with you , Even the Uk was named, This happened on a beach in Phuket Thailand not America not England.

Yes! but you know this sort of Post is Tailor made for the Bashers, of either their own Country, or someone elses.

I hope the Lady gets well soon,and continues her livelihood.

How is it that when anything like this happens as sure as eggs are eggs we will get a justification reply that this sort of stuff happens everywhere in the world, and hence its not really a problem.

We are'nt in any other part of the world, we are on Thai visa discussing a Thai incident, involving Thai thugs.

Exactly: "Two wrongs don't make a right" neither is it a plea in Law!

Usually brings the UK bashers,out in force as well,any chance to slip in their own agenda.

Metropolitan Police Bureau: 4,244 arrested for drug-related crimes during New Year: 640,000 amphetamine pills, 10 kg of ice, and 30 kg of cannabis seized /MCOT

Wow?? how much damage will impact the people who hook to Amphetamine pills?? Cannabis is alright in my opinion ( I do not smoke ) but, many people around my area are using cannabis. However, the worst drug already proven damage is prescription drug. Statistic already came out in America. But, in Thailand Amphetamine is still new I hope the Thais know how dangerous this drug can do to a person. I am standing tall.

A common misconception.

Cannabis can cause Scizophrenia,Paranoia,Depression, Deprivation of drive and lack of interest in life,

among many other less serious side effects.

Look it up!

Although this argument is a bit off topic I would like to comment as well:

The unlucky 0.5% of the population who is diagnosed as schizophrenic started showing signs of the disorder one day, mostly in early adulthood. Cannabis can "activate" it, but it is not the "cause"of the disorder... If not cannabis use, some other event would propably have triggered it anyway. (if it truly caused schhizophrenia, imagine the number of patients that would have emerged since the 60's)

As for paranoia, sure, while under the influence, espcially unexperienced users can become paranoid, until the effect wears out. Depression, well we could argue the opposite would be more often true, cannabis being a better antidepressant than many commercial antidepressants.

People having severe problems with cannabis are usually people with problems in the first place, who start using cannabis.

For adult, healthy individuals, cannabis IMO is pretty harmless certainly less dangerous than alcohol.

Your suggestion to "look it up" doesnt bring us much further either, since there is so much biased information from both pro and contra sides

I dont think,the Worlds Medical Profession would agree with most of your casual summary.

Metropolitan Police Bureau: 4,244 arrested for drug-related crimes during New Year: 640,000 amphetamine pills, 10 kg of ice, and 30 kg of cannabis seized /MCOT

Wow?? how much damage will impact the people who hook to Amphetamine pills?? Cannabis is alright in my opinion ( I do not smoke ) but, many people around my area are using cannabis. However, the worst drug already proven damage is prescription drug. Statistic already came out in America. But, in Thailand Amphetamine is still new I hope the Thais know how dangerous this drug can do to a person. I am standing tall.

A common misconception.

Cannabis can cause Scizophrenia,Paranoia,Depression, Deprivation of drive and lack of interest in life,

among many other less serious side effects.

Look it up!

Not really complaining...but on your first poll question there are only two options...either lost a fortune in Thailand or made a fortune in Thailand. Niether applies to me...because to me the whole "Banking dsaster" farce is of no financial concern whatsoever.

So for that reason, because the poll won't let me answer only two questions, I can't vote in the poll....unless I answer the first question with a lie.

On the other point, which is not the queston here really, I don't believe there ever was a "World Banking Diaster:. Thats why I called it a farce.

All I saw (in my opinion) was a number of wealthy individuals in the financial market game, who first ran a scam game on a group of guillible investors by feeding their inflated expectations, and then took their profits in the form of "bonuses" and ran away; but only after they engineered a phoney "crises" so they could steal government funds to "repay" their make believe losses at the taxpayers expense.

I believe it is called "Capitalisim"

But that is just my opinion....you may disagree.

The answers I would have liked to give are:

1. Basically the "World Banking Disaster" hasn't affected my financial health (or lack of it).

2. It hasn't really affected my life style in Thailand.

3. It hasn't really affected my prospects for the future.

You have one thing wrong, the losses were not make believe. I wish that they would have gone bankrupt as well but it's not as though these mortgages never actually existed.

Very interesting viewpoint! IMA

As to the Topic:

Please see my explaination,Post No 25

Forgot to add my own personal interest, in this subject on my Original Post.

Yep! I also lost out in Thailand.

But <deleted> I'm still Rich,............ Iv'e got my Beautiful Little Daughter!

Not really complaining...but on your first poll question there are only two options...either lost a fortune in Thailand or made a fortune in Thailand. Niether applies to me...because to me the whole "Banking dsaster" farce is of no financial concern whatsoever.

So for that reason, because the poll won't let me answer only two questions, I can't vote in the poll....unless I answer the first question with a lie.

On the other point, which is not the queston here really, I don't believe there ever was a "World Banking Diaster:. Thats why I called it a farce.

All I saw (in my opinion) was a number of wealthy individuals in the financial market game, who first ran a scam game on a group of guillible investors by feeding their inflated expectations, and then took their profits in the form of "bonuses" and ran away; but only after they engineered a phoney "crises" so they could steal government funds to "repay" their make believe losses at the taxpayers expense.

I believe it is called "Capitalisim"

But that is just my opinion....you may disagree.

The answers I would have liked to give are:

1. Basically the "World Banking Disaster" hasn't affected my financial health (or lack of it).

2. It hasn't really affected my life style in Thailand.

3. It hasn't really affected my prospects for the future.

You have one thing wrong, the losses were not make believe. I wish that they would have gone bankrupt as well but it's not as though these mortgages never actually existed.

IMA, Please see my explaination,Post No 25

It's a Silly poll. It won't allow me to answer unless I reply to one stupid option. I neither made a fortune nor lost a fortune in Thailand.

Life is pretty much the same with me before and after the crooked bankers screwed the world. Bankers and politicians are both the same and I've never trusted either... for very good reasons.

Yes you are correct the Poll could have given another choice of: "Stayed the Same" but there are some restrictions on the amount of questions and choices,and also it was mean't to be any choices you made,but in the event I must have configured it wrong and it forced everyone to answer all the questions including (Made or Lost a Fortune), and I didnt notice until it was too late to Edit it.

And also there is usually The "Fatal Flaw" and inconsistencies in most Polls and Studies. unless one plays safe with either a Yes or No, or Don't Know Answer,or even don't Post a Poll at all.

I am £150/200k down and that stalls some of my plans for up to 3 years.

The main issue/fear is the ability to recover those losses in markets that will not be favourable.

Sorry to hear that,

that's a helluva lot.

Just a quick Poll,with the intentions of perhaps getting a small insight into past Banking Disasters and the Credit Crunch,Pension Reductions etc. to see what effects (if any) has been noticed by the Ex Pat Community of Thailand.

Please remember this is your perception,and interpretation.

So a fortune by some standards,may only be Peanuts to someone else.

Use your own discretion.