richard_smith237

I think there is little doubt as to the effectiveness of everyone wearing masks in public…. … but, as you pointed out, with bars, restaurants, gyms, sports-halls etc all open there is sufficient non-mask wearing going on to make mask wearing relatively ineffective…. The community benefit of Mask wearing relies on a ‘critical mass’ of wearers above which mask wearing provides a benefit & below which makes little difference. With everything being open, I suspect we are ‘below’ that ‘critical mass’ & intermittent mask wearing in some places but not others is simply ineffective. For mask wearing to be effective it must be on an ‘all the time everywhere’ basis & this isn’t practical when the symptoms are no longer as serious as we originally thought at the beginning of the pandemic.

Is there a current law, rule or regulation in Thailand that people have to wear masks, anywhere ??? I think this is part of the argument some are presenting... There is no current ‘official’ mask mandate in Thailand... just some businesses. I’m one of those who are happy to wear a mask in a Bank if asked... Life is too short too make a big deal of such issues. But... I don’t want do be expected to wear a mask whenever outside of my house at all times. I don’t want to have to wear a mask whenever in a Bank or supermarket for the next 10 or 20 years.... (unless there is another pandemic etc). So... like others, I question the logic behind some of the behavioural traits, specifically this contagion effect where no one wants to be the one standing out from the crowd by not conforming. ---- I am going to my Son’s school today... A big international School. No one at the school is wearing masks with the exception of a handful of the parents. We’ll be in a big auditorium watching children do their Christmas performance (i.e. in a closed area)... i.e. maybe less than 5% of parents wearing masks (no kids, no teachers etc). I wonder, if those same people who are wearing a mask all around Bangkok (in Supermakerts, shopping malls etc) will take off their mask in the school because they don’t want to be the ‘odd ones out’.... the ‘contagion effect in reverse’ !!!

There seems to be an interesting facet at play with many of these discussions.... Are foreigners who have remained in Thailand and not travelled more likely to continue wearing their mask at all times than foreigners who have been traveling outside of Thailand and witnessed that the vast majority of people are no longer wearing masks and hence are questioning the need to wear a mask at all times in Thailand. Is the ‘contagion effect’ impacting those foreigners who have not travelled outside of Thailand, even subconsciously ?.... Would those who are ’staunch mask wearers’ still be staunch mask wearers if no-one else in Thailand were wearing masks ? To me - this is an interesting point - not to argue, but from a sociological perspective: How influenced are we by our surroundings (in this case social surroundings) and how to we allow that influence to impact our bias ??.... How do some of us recognise this potential influence and deliberately resist and perhaps go over the top to resist and prove we cannot be socially ‘manipulated’ ???

Agreed.... What is it with all this news publicly embarrassing victims... ??? Do news reporters standby at police stations waiting for victims to publicly embarrass ???? Surely going to the police is such situations ‘should’ be something which can be done with privacy and in confidence.... Its almost as if the journalists (term used very loosely) pay the BiB so they can hang around and hopefully get a juicy story... OR, the BiB call them in when there is some potential story and they get a ‘pay out’... ... either way.. its pretty characterless behaviour and shows an underbelly of distaste.

Mask wearing in Japan has been applied intelligently in the past. There is a strong degree of social responsibility. IF someone is unwell and suffering some mild cold symptoms etc... they wear a mask to protect others - I like this idea. This is a facet of mask wearing I’d like to see adopted everywhere else. I don’t think blindly wearing a mask is a good thing. From the sole perspective of transmission of viruses and public health, mask wearing throughout all of society may have its advantageous, but there are many things we could do which would be advantageous to society on a whole.. We could ban alcohol... reduce ALL speed limits to 30mph... Ban Sugar... Limit Television... etc etc... all extreme measures of course and somewhat ridiculous to consider... but a line is drawn somewhere.... and placing a ‘filter’ over our faces as a just incase measure when we are no longer in a pandemic situation may also seem extreme to many / some.

Absolutely agree... I carry a mask with me at all times, just incase I’m asked to wear it or in an area where its busy. Now... I’ll be away again for the next 6 weeks... Europe and Middle East. The next time I wear a mask will likely be back in Thailand if I go on the BTS or a hospital.. Unless the virus takes a turn for the worse, or there is a major flu outbreak etc..

I’m neither against masks or for them.... I’d just like to see intelligent balance in these discussions. It seems these discussions can’t be held with out someone either forcing those with a balanced opinions into a 'for or against camp’ where the extremes shout louder and are the only voices heard. I think there are situations where mask wearing would be preferred and beneficial and other situation where mask wearing would be considered excessive; - To some, this makes me ‘pro-mask’ and against the freedom of peoples individual rights not to wear a mask. - To others, this makes me ‘Anti-mask’ and a disease spreader. ------ I’ve traveled a lot in the last 6 months - Thailand is the only place I have seen where there still prolific mask wearing.... That said, I don’t see 100% of people wearing the mask. No one is wearing a mask at my Son’s international School. But, I see many Thai’s still wearing a mask in and around Bangkok... In Big-C etc. My Wife will tell me that people are still wearing a mask not because they fear a virus, but because they don’t want be the ones ’standing out’ - I think much of the mask wearing in Thailand comes down to that point - the 'Contagion effect’ (doing something because everyone else is). There is one facet of this discussion which I do think is important. The ‘contagion effect’ is what it is... its just copying everyone else... people are using this to suggest that people are smart and wearing masks because of the risk from Covid-19... I don’t see this so much in Thailand... its simply just ’the contagion effect’. BUT... as you ThailandRyan pointed out... IF there is a more serious strain of Covid-19 going around, if the symptoms are getting worse or there is greater risk of contracting influenza then increased mask wearing makes a lot of sense. The problem is the lack of balance and the extreme arguments which are the only ones being heard.

There are lots around... Do you want them hard-wired or battery operated. I installed ‘Blink’ (bought off Amazon) for the ease of installation and simplicity of use. They are not 24 hour recording - rather, they record only when there is movement. We can set sensitivity, zones of coverage etc... Batteries are supposed to last 2 years. The cameras can be accessed remotely (they connect to Wifi) and record either to the cloud (if you want) or to a base station which can be accessed on a home Wifi network. I think for something with 24 hour recording it would need a hard wired power supply.

You missed my point..... IF we have to be concerned about the risk we may potentially pose to every single other person around us we’d have to take extreme measures.... (hazmat suits) and that is clearly not practical. Is mask wearing everywhere we go, in everything we do practical ?... I don’t think so. Should we be wearing masks forever now ??... everywhere we go in public ?... I’ll ignore your obvious bias and use of the word narcissist which lends nothing intelligent to the discussion... ...but you do ask a reasonable question... ‘how does an immune compromised person go about protecting themselves ???.... ... How did they go about protecting themselves before Covid-19 ??? Would your argument therefore be, we should always have been wearing masks all the time, decades before Covid-19 ???? i.e. as soon as we knew what viruses are and how they are transmitted...

We should all be walking around in Hazmat suits then !!!... I think common sense can be applied... When the virus was serious being sanctimonious about mask wearing was justified... now it just seems like virtue signalling amongst those who are not aware of how things have moved on outside of Thailand. As I wrote - Wearing a mask on public transport makes sense - not for covid, but for any illness such as the common Cold and Flu... And busy area’s too but there is also a balance with practicality. And of course at hospitals because there are unwell people there with weakened immune systems. Anywhere else... those with weakened immune systems should be taking extra precautions to protect themselves... as harsh as it sounds thats life. Every other country I’ve been to in the last 6 months has moved away from mask wearing... except Thailand... it seems strange returning. That said, if I walk into a Bank or a Big-C etc and the staff are asking that we wear a mask, I’ll wear a mask... but otherwise I won’t. There’s no mask wearing at my Sons school either..

I wore a mask today for the first time in about 3 months. I’ve been flying in and out (to and from Middle East) - No mask wearing at the airport (BKK) or on the flights. I think the last time I wore a mask before today was on the BTS about 3 months ago... I wore it because there was an announcement asking that people wear it (I’ve not been on the BTS since). Then again today in a hospital, because its a hospital and there could be unwell or immune compromised people there. I don’t mind wearing a mask when its necessary... i.e. on Public transport I think its fair enough to wear a mask and in a hospital. But for other aspects of daily life I think we are past it. I’ve just been away for a few weeks... It's seems strange coming back to Thailand and everyone is still locked into the pandemic fear and wearing masks.

Are you suggesting compression socks are ineffective in reducing risk of DVT on flights ?

Policeman asks for a Passport... I answer “No”.... nothing else happens and I walk off... Thats happened twice. A further time the BiB (a group of them) were not so easy to ignore... they wanted me to get out of the taxi. They’d stopped the taxi and asked me for my passport, I held up a copy of my DL... They wanted a passport... So they told me to to get out.... I refused... Told them to wait and they can speak to the person who’s about to take my call... 5 mins later, waved on my way... ... some of these guys are just after a shakedown... I don’t want any part of it, but I also don’t want to carry my passport around (the risk of loss is higher than risk of getting stopped and having a major problem).

Nope... thats not how it goes down at all.... but you know that already just as we know you are not really that stupidly obtuse... The obvious answer is don’t over-stay. Anyone who’s spent any time here knows that law and regulation has little relevance as the Police don’t know or follow their own laws, they just follow the ‘legacy’ of their peers. Whether it involves BiB asking for IDP, Licence, Thai Licence or our Immigration status etc... the best option is to ensure our ducks are in a row... it just makes things go more smoothly. If asked for my Passport in the street... I’m not going to try and teach a half-witted policeman his own laws... I just play the game, I don’t carry my passport so what happens next depends on the situation.. i..e show Pink ID, Driving Licence, Photo of Passport... etc.. if they don’t accept that things get a little trickier... I have BiB friends I can call, so never a major issue.

Its out there some where.... Its an Order of the Ministry of Interior No. 1496/2561... an ID inspection can only be carried out by a police officer with the rank of second lieutenant or higher.

Your story about the "scam" is pretty vage. There have been a few a stories on this forum recently... People leave their Passport with an agent, then they can’t get their passport back. Agent is either scamming them, has lost their passport, can’t get the visa etc... but they’ve taken the money then are not responding... Call it whatever you want... argue the semantics of the word scam..... its irrelevant... Some Visa Agents are offering a service, taking the money, perhaps even making up false stamps or using connections at immigration to rubber-stamp a passport illegally etc.... All somewhat of a grey area.....

Obviously you didn’t download it and watch it, because you wouldn’t waste your time... ... So, how did you watch it ??

It amazes me how often stationary objects are hit through no other reason than inattention. ------- Coming in from the Airport we were in an AOT van which was pulled over by a Motorcycle policeman for being in the outside lane (apparent a van cannot be in the outside lane) - the Policeman clearly wanted a bribe from the AOT driver and was dragging the stop out. I was furious... Firstly I told the driver not to stop on the shoulder, too dangerous. I told him to pull off the expressway at the next stop but the policeman was being very clear and stopped him at the side of the road. My Son and Wife in the car... I felt extremely vulnerable with lorries and trucks speeding past. I was so close to simply getting in the drivers seat and driving off the express-way to a safer place to stop. Obviously nothing happened, but to have our safety compromised in such a careless manner infuriated me - neither the driver or the Policeman understood the risk. Yet, I have since seen so many occasions where someone was killed because they’d stopped their vehicle on the ’shoulder’ - in Thailand thats asking for someone to hit your vehicle.

Erm... this has to be a troll... no one is this stupid.... right ?

All fairly moot..... Ignorance of the law is not a valid excuse.

At least they didn’t suggest you take some assistance from the people following you...

I've been stopped at Asoke and asked for my passport too.... That doesn't mean its a legal stop. There are regulations that the Police ‘should’ follow... but when we see them riding around without helmets, how can we expect them to follow their own regulations. As I understand it, ONLY an Immigration Officer can enquire about your Immigration Status. Only a Commissioned Officer (any Police) can ask for ID, OR, an non-commissioned officer in the presence of commissioned officers in a raid or at an official check-point.

You seriously think that those foreigners with no permission to be here, regardless of the length of time, should not be arrested and dealt with? What do think should happen to them when discovered, told "Tut, tut, overstay, never mind, off you go" so that there would be no need for anyone to ever get a visa/extension? Perhaps your rationalisation is that those on overstay should be left alone with no consequences and those legal foreigners who do renew their extensions should just have to get on with it? You're not wrong at all... Of course over stayers should be dealt with accordingly, they have broken the law. But, there does seem to be a ‘clamp-down’ and a disproportionate amount of focus. IF the Thai police applied this level of focus to ALL crimes it would easier to suggest this is the police simply doing their jobs... instead there seems to be an ‘element of targeting foreigners’ about this... Why aren’t over charging taxi drivers being dealt with the same way ??? OR, any other regular indiscriminate crime we see and witness daily here ? (Perhaps because the others don’t have 20,000 baht to pay a fine ?.... there’s no profit in targeting other crimes). I’m cynical... but I have learned to be here.

He wouldn't have to pay "triple price air fare" if he had been here legally. & Someone else could get a ticket for him... (not triple fare of course)... I don’t think the ticket has to be purchased through Immigration.

Are you sure about that ? IF I’m not mistaken - only Commissioned officers can ask for ID (Government issued photo ID). An immigration officer needs to be present IF they want to check the Immigration Status of a person in the street. That said: If as you pointed out, the Immigration Police have asked for regular police to arrest someone for overstay, they are accused of ‘committing a crime’ and can be checked - in this case I believe an Immigration officer still needs to check the information (passport).