kwilco

I got my last 5 year just before Covid - originally I got all my renewals in Chonburi - so I guess it varies from area to area. - not unusual for Thai govt departments.

I got my last 5 year just before Covid - originally I got all my renewals in Chonburi - so I guess it varies from area to area. - not unusual for Thai govt departments.

Most expat/foreign drivers are very ethnocentric in their views of driving in Thailand and even after years in the country fail to grasp the basics of Thai culture and apply that to the driving environment. Driving in Thailand the influence of boats and Rivers “Rivers and canals are synonymous with Thai life and culture”[1] (Batra, 2014). Before WW2 - rivers were the main transport routes in Thailand. The power and influence that the “river” still has on daily Thai life should not be underestimated. The canals date back to well before the founding of Bangkok in 1782 and were the primary means of transportation, a source of food and water, part of ceremonies in particular Loy Krathong and many other activities. Before Bangkok, the ancient Thai capital of Ayutthaya was dubbed “Venice of the East” by the first European visitors in the 17th century. Important structures, such as markets and temples, were built on the river and canal banks. This in turn influenced the development of the city and its layout. With the introduction of the automobile and roads, the role of the canal system in Thai life was reduced but things like the rules of transport remained embedded in the Thai psyche. As roads took over, buildings were constructed facing them and canals have been paved over to become streets.” Long-tail boats, Thailand’s version of gondolas, were the mainstay of Thai transport; they literally kept the Thai economy afloat. Originally the boats were mostly skulled with some small sails. The relatively still waters of the delta rivers and canals being suitable for these flat-bottom boats to glide over the surface. So, Thailand’s transport history and development was for centuries predominantly centred on rivers. Thai water culture influences all aspects of Thai life. “Kuaytiao reua” boat noodles restaurants still have a boat for display or shape their counters like boats. Buildings like temples, schools, hotels and condominiums are frequently built in shapes that mimic boats. Decorations on Vehicles The roads are no different - The ornate decorations on buses, trucks and other vehicles have most of their roots in the decor of boats and barges. The iconography of symbols on commercial vehicles is a fascinating topic of its own. Mandalas, Gods of speed and those icons of Serpico to ward off corrupt police. Taxis and many private vehicles have ornate shrines in the front that are just the same as the boats with offerings to Mae Ya Nang. You will also see various other icons. Yants, similar to tattoos are usually drawn above rear-view mirrors by monks who bless the vehicle. Images of Thai kings, often on a bank note, decorate dashboards on taxis and other commercial vehicles. Goddess Mae Ya Nang Many Thai people believe Mae Ya Nang to be a female spirit that resides in the body of the boat, it is also said that Mae Ya Nang is the Goddess of journeys. By paying respect to Mae Ya Nang passengers can expect her protection and a safe journey. Thailand imports and then “adapts”. Adding bits of tradition and culture to whatever it is they have taken a shine to...the car is no exception. Look inside any truck bus, taxi or car in Thailand and you’ll see evidence of this. Steering wheels, the rooves, and dashboards are adorned with symbols and rituals taken from boats - Garlands hang from the “stem” - the rear-view mirror - shrines to Mae Ya Nang. And so it goes on almost every car, truck or bus.. The general public still pay at least a nodding respect to Mae Ya Nang and it obviously influences their attitude to driving. (NB in Europe, the West and Catholic countries, saluting of spirits under bridges and the ubiquitous St Christopher medals in cars). At every traffic light you can be offered a garland of Jasmin flowers (phuang malai)[2] to hang of your mirror to show respect to this goddess. (BTW - it’s 20 baht a time and give them the old one for recycling) “I’m in a boat” Anyone who has owned or moored a river boat will recognise the similarities with the double or three deep “mooring” in car parks and the moorings for boats on a bank or jetty; vehicles are left with no brake on so they can be pushed out of the way like any boat at a mooring. The proposition that the Thai national psyche is orientated towards river transport is to me particularly appealing. It could indeed account for a lot of road traffic behaviour that seems to show an abundance of those characteristics. In towns it flows much more as if on water than on asphalt. Even out on the open road you can see behaviour that fits more with navigating a boat on a river than the western idea of driving a car. The sweeping lines taken around bend across the lanes of traffic, no sudden halts just gentle drifting out into mainstreams. Swinging into the current from a tributary (side road) - The contraflow traffic moving slowly alongside the bank (i.e. - hard shoulder or central reservation) sheltering from the oncoming current… moving off so slowly so as not to upset the load…and of course parking nose first - putting in the bow and hoping the stern will drift in round behind, all are perfect examples of how to handle a boat on a river. The Thai driver - anthropologically speaking at least, seems to be in a boat. When this culture is added to the speed capability of road-going motor vehicles, you get a potentially unsettling mixture of fluidity and danger. So, next time you’re out driving, just keep repeating to yourself “I’m in a boat, I’m in a boat, I’m in a boat” and you may be pleasantly surprised to see how it all comes together…

I renewed mine in Samui - had all the tests are you saying you didn't o the depth perception or reflex tests?

what's the matter know nothing? "If you want to keep your full licence you already have to take a medical with a registered GP."

there are at least two eye tests when renewing in Thailand, the colour blindness test and the 3d test - a basic colour-blindness test, peripheral vision check, and a reaction-time test using a brake pedal simulator - do you have a Thai licence? Have you renewed it?

so wrong again! You have made serious errors in EVERY post so far - you really should take time off and get yourself up to speed.

there are already vision tests when you renew a Thai licence - at 70 in UK you can self certify at 70 but you will automatically lose parts of your licence - e,g, Light goods vehicles and passenger vehicles. You can keep you M/C licence but don't buy a big RV, you won't be covered. If you want to keep your full licence you already have to take a medical with a registered GP.

richard_smith237 - is running around like a headless chicken - he does this every time I post - there is a pause as he scours Google and cherry picks a few quotes he can plagiarise. This time he has quoted me and then the 1979 Thai road traffic "rule book" However the Vienna treaty of which Thailand became a signatory supersedes and prior bilateral agreements - it also is worth noting how in order to gainsay my post he can only fixate on one point realling out pages of rubbish. Bilateral agreements that conflict with provisions of a later multilateral treaty may be considered superseded or modified to the extent of the conflict. This ensures that international law remains coherent and that countries adhere to agreed-upon standards in their relations with all treaty parties. Therefore, if the Vienna Convention on Road Traffic signed by Thailand conflicts with any provisions of prior bilateral agreements with the UK regarding road traffic regulations, the Vienna Convention would generally take precedence. Thailand would be expected to harmonize its domestic laws with the provisions of the Vienna Convention, potentially rendering conflicting bilateral agreements ineffective in those specific areas covered by the treaty.

AH! I see! but isn't that gainsaying?

THe OP is about etiquette - and foreigners need to drive accordingly - making little "hard and fast" rules about Thai driving just show an inability to adapt to the driving environment here. THis may happen but if you rely on it 100% you will be very disappointed. I know of one Thai woman whose driving instructor told her not to indicate until making the turn. Te point being if you are driving in Thailand you need to be ready for a lot of unfamiliar possibilities - Thai drivers are. A while ago driving on route A331 between Pattaya and Rayong I started slowing down and the car in front did a right turn - my passenger asked how I knew he was turning right - It was obvious by the way he was positioning himself on the road - a signal would have been nicer but if you read the road you can see,

@richard_smith237 has an unerring ability to get everything wrong in his relentless effort to gainsay anything I ever post - his theory is based on the concept that if he hasn't heard of it it doesn't exist. but his knowledge is severely restricted.

Sadly you are wrong again - you seem unaware that Thailand is now signatory to the 1968 Vienna road traffic convention since 2020.

Richard -= I don't k now why you bother - you're just a gainsayer and no-nothing.

no such thing.

Rules for driving in Thailand Expats in Thailand are almost to a man/woman “bad drivers” – they have a false belief that they are “superb drivers” and that Thai people are “bad drivers” – this is fundamentally a racist attitude. There is stupid, stupider and racist these expats qualify on all levels not only are they racist they have no understanding of road safety in Thailand – they see it from an expat-centric point of view without any real understanding of rod safety or how to drive. Firstly they seldom wonder what rules and behaviours should be adhered across the Kingdom, they just assume they are the same as at home. Another mistake they make is thinking that Thailand’s roads are “generally quite good” -this epitomises the uninformed thinking that permeates the expat community Then there are the rules, laws and behaviours that need to be understood – as a competent driver you don’t “follow” these you will instinctively adapt – but as most foreign drivers have no instinct they can’t and don’t. The reason is they come from countries that have adopted modern scientific road safety policies. Road safety is not about “bad driving” – a purely subjective construct, it is understood to be a public health issue and their authorities have spent years implementing road safety policies. The downside of this is that people form these countries are unaware - and think the lack of road deaths is down to their “good driving” – they couldn’t be more wrong – the roads, rules and regulations are all designed to protect these idiots from themselves. “Bad Drivers” exist all over the world – road safety systems are designed to protect them from themselves. So let’s look at the list above and see how it can help. The Legal Driving Age The legal age limit in Thailand in which to drive is 18 years old. – in 4 wheeled private vehicle – it is possible to ride a motorcycle when you are 15. However this isn’t that different from the USA and many other countries. For instance Most states allow individuals to get a learner's permit around the age of 15 or 16, which allows supervised driving with a licensed adult in the car. In Thailand, potential drivers must take courses in a driving school before gaining a driving license. - there is far too much emphasis put on the importance of a driving test - most drivers took there's at a time when tests were little more than a formality and the long term effects on good driving are lost to the accumulation of bad habits SPEED LIMITS – the national speed limit is 90 kph – but they have now introduced many pointless variations. One of Thailand’s biggest problems is a total lack of properly trained road traffic engineers. Anyone who has driven round the country in the last couple of years will see that the traffic engineers have gone mad with road markings, surface colourings and speed limits. Everywhere 30 kph for schools are marked with colourful decorations all over the place – the 50 kph and derestriction signs are seldom it the right place and it’s not uncommon to see signs next to each other with different speed limits. Major roads that are not up to motorway specification are being derestricted up to 120 kph which makes them even more dangerous that before and minimum speed limits in “fast” lanes have been introduced along with variable limits – none of this is properly enforced and absolutely none has been scientifically researched before introduction. It’s not uncommon to see 120 posted on the gantry and a 90 sign illuminated next to it. The amount of traffic that simply ignores these limits is absurd and shows the utter chaos that exists on Thai roads. Even the placing and formats of these signs is inconsistent as if erected at whim. Most foreign motorbike users are blithely unaware their speed limit is generally set at 80 km/h, or even that they are not allowed on motorways and expressways. Traffic laws are changing quite a bit at the moment but without any clear unified policy, it is just load of mish mash that some over enthusiastic amateurs have thrown together. Of course enforcement is totally inconsistent by untrained officers. It is difficult to say it’s important to keep up to date with these speed limits and the different types of roads as the police can’t enforce them and the courts can’t follow up with fines. So many of these limits bear no relation to the road that they are imposed on, rather it seems they have just planted a few signs that were left in stock. Traffic road signs – road signs are basically international – there are a few exceptions around the world - however the most important thing about the international road sign system is it uses graphics and the way we reaction is largely subliminal – unfortunately Thai road traffic engineers don’t seem to have grasped this concept. “Thailand has five different types of road signs. It should not be hard to read them as they all feature the English language in addition to Thai.” The golden rule is you don’t actually read road signs – as said you recognise them and you reaction is subliminal language is secondary and the graphics tell you what is going on.– unfortunately Thai road signs don’t understand this. Right of way on the left – this is one of the most misunderstood road rules in Thailand and so many drivers fall foul of it. Thai Traffic Law states that when two moving vehicles reach a junction the car in the left lane is given the right of way. Unless there is a designation of a principle roadway mark, the vehicle on that mark has the right of way. Drivers in France and even Netherlands will recognise this as the inverse of the “priority from the right rules on their roads. For years this was a source of serious crashes in France and totally misunderstood by British drivers. Nowadays the law still applies but clear signages and rationalisation of road design has largely eliminated the problem. Nevertheless it still remains embedded in French road culture – it is embedded in Thai road culture too but sadly road design and markings have not developed to mitigate the problem. The most classic example in Thailand is when a foreign drivers yells “HE JUST CAME OUT IN FRONT OF ME!” – That’s because he can! Roundabouts are a particular problem - One example is the roundabout sign….there are 2 versions! They are both circular in shape and feature a arrows in a clockwise direction, but that doesn’t mean that it is illegal to change lanes. “Drivers must also yield when necessary” – but you have to define “when necessary” Roundabouts There is no unified design for roundabouts and no national public awareness campaign for these relatively new additions to Thai roads. Using a roundabout in Thailand follows similar principles to other countries, but it's important to be aware of local driving habits and rules. Here’s a guide to using a roundabout correctly in Thailand: The main problem appears to be that the priority to the left rule has to be reversed for roundabouts – This leads to mayhem There are in fact TWO different signs used for roundabouts and markings are often non-existant- They are also frequent “creative” variations on roundabouts giving priority to vehicles in certain lanes – this is just WRONG. In Thailand, the priority to the left rule indeed differs from some other countries, especially in the context of roundabouts. Here’s how the priority typically works in Thai roundabouts: Entering the Roundabout - Unlike in some countries where vehicles already in the roundabout have priority, in Thailand, there's often an unwritten rule where vehicles entering the roundabout expect those already inside to yield to them. This is actually against both the rules and common sense. The result is that if you are approaching a roundabout and intend to enter it, you might find that vehicles inside the roundabout slow down or yield to you to allow you to enter. So, once you are inside the roundabout, you actually have priority BUT you must still exercise caution and be prepared to yield to vehicles entering from your left, as they may not always adhere to the give correct priority conventions. Exiting the Roundabout: - you should use indicators whilst ON the roundabout – (e.g. indicating right when you enter if you are using the third exit is not enough – you indicate left when you exit).When exiting, use your indicators ASAP to signal your intention to other drivers. As always, be mindful of motorbikes and other small vehicles that might manoeuvre inside you on the left. Local driving habits and customs can vary with almost every roundabout so be aware and always stay vigilant and adapt to the flow of traffic around you. Understanding and getting used to adapting quickly to these local driving customs can help you navigate roundabouts safely and smoothly in Thailand. As you approach roundabouts you should officially yield to traffic on the right, i.e. already in the circle. Traffic already in the circle has the right of way. – this is international but not fully practiced in Thailand. Use your turn signals to indicate your intention to enter and exit the roundabout.- treat it as you would any other piece of road. Lane discipline on roundabouts depends a lot on if the lanes are marked at all – in Thailand they usually aren’t. Thai roundabouts are not consistently marked and lanes can actually disappear on exiting. Some roundabouts have parallel lanes others have spirals and some are “irregular” or have no markings at all. However, like any other road you should get into to the left lane to exit if there is more than one lane. Remember to use your turn signals to indicate your intention to exit the roundabout. Lane changing is permitted but sudden lane changes within the roundabout can be difficult and dangerous especially on one without proper markings. Despite what you may experience it is the law In Thailand, that vehicles entering a roundabout must give way to traffic already on the roundabout unless signs or road markings indicate otherwise. You need to be aware that frequently vehicles might not yield properly, so proceed cautiously even if you have the right of way. ROAD SIGNS - In general though road signage in Thailand is appalling. Signs are erected at random and often in poorly visible places – hidden by billboards or vegetation. In most countries signs are placed at standard distances from whatever they are warning of…..they are familiar and positioned to be at “eyelevel” for motorists – in Thailand this is not taken into consideration, which means not only do they no signify correctly, it takes longer for motorists to ingest and react to the information – this may only be fractions of a second but in terms of road safety, this represents several metres of road. Foreign motorists should familiarise themselves with the various types of signs as quickly as possible and then be prepared for them to be put in the oddest places. Using your horn – is not acceptable in Thailand – it is part of the avoidance of confrontation culture that permeates all of Thai interactions. At times it seems that Thai drivers would rather run into someone than use a horn. Flashing lights and hooting are internationally recognised ways of indicating your presence – with hooting Thai culture would prefer to remain silent. Flashing lights basically mean the same all over the world BUT – various countries have developed secondary uses – in the UK, it means “OK come on out, I’ve seen you” – in Thailand it means “stay where you are, I coming through” – the initial meaning if indicating presence is still there, it’s what to do after that is different – you need to be aware of context – If you see Thai people using their horn for no apparent reason, a quick glance around you will see a Spirit house or a place where Spirit houses are disposed of…..temples do not receive a toot. Switching lanes requires a turn or hand signal – which applies in every county in the world – only a “bad driver” wouldn’t do that. However lane markings on merging lanes in Thailand appear to have been designed by a mad man. Any driver worth their salt will be aware of their surroundings. You don’t make assumptions based on driving at home, you use your mirrors Pedestrian crossing in Thailand were totally ignored but now the fabulous road painting engineers have been let loose on some roads with some ridiculous results. You need to heed the pedestrian crossings but be aware whilst you are stopped many vehicles will pass you on either side – so don’t be too keen to wave tht old lady across in front of you only to seen her swept off her feet by some less considerate motorist who could see what you were doing. There is now an increasing fashion to designate lanes to cyclists etc – but don’t be confused by these and the hard shoulders on many larger roads – these are used by motorbikes but are NOT M/C lanes. In some areas miles and miles of roads are decorated with cycle lanes, many of which are either overgrown or used by motorcycles. The default law in Thailand is that pedestrians have right of way – however one needs to take into account how this might surprise a motorist. There is no such thing as jay walking – see my post about being in a boat. If you live continuously in Thailand for more than 3 months you are expected to have a Thai driving licence – you may find after this period that you are no longer covered by insurance. The rules of parking When parking, make sure you park in the direction of the traffic. You can be clamped – normally by someone in authority who’s short of cash. Parking is fairly self-explanatory and of course most shopping malls provide free parking. I love the way that in car parks, extra vehicles cab park across already parked cars – just remember to leave the car in neutral with the handbrake off. Unfortunately many modern cars automatically put on the handbrake or won’t stay in neutral Seatbelt laws – why wouldn’t you wear a seat-belt? - all passengers too. Kids seats are compulsory. Drink-driving – Thailand has plenty of laws to do with drink driving – but does very little about enforcing them. In fact 30% of accidents involve alcohol – that isn’t an excessively high percentage – about the same as the USA. IDPs Visitors are the required to have a home licence and IDP to drive in Thailand – this must be specifically for the vehicle they intend to drive. IDPs are issued in you home country usually by the national motoring organisation (AAA etc.) – the ones online are fakes. There are 2 IDPs – the Vienna convention one lasts for 3 years so long as your licence is still valid and the Geneva convention one which is only for one year. (oddly enough I saw a 5 year one issued in Thailand and just couldn’t tell if it was fake or not.) Thailand has as yet, no small bike category, so to ride any 2-wheeled vehicle in Thailand you need a FULL M/C licence accompanied by an IDP with category “A” endorsed – not cat A1. If you live continuously in Thailand for more than 3 months you are expected to have a Thai driving licence – you may find after this period that you are no longer covered by insurance. In many countries an IDP is available over the counter on presentation of the right documents. If you are a competent driver you should be able to drive anywhere in the world – BUT if you expect people in Thailand to drive like they do “at home” then you are probably not a competent driver. If you end up shouting or getting angry with other road users in Thailand, the problem is almost certainly with YOU. Turn left on a red light? “turning left on a red light is generally prohibited unless specific signs indicate otherwise”. … The picture below says it all.. The sign on the left says – “turn left – wait for the right” The sign on the right says “Turn left pass through” The sign “ซ้ายผ่านตลอด” (sai paan talort) means “Left turn at all times” CRASHES - What to do if I get into an accident in Thailand? There is a protocol you should strictly adhere to. The very first thing you do is contact you insurance. Make sure someone has rung emergency, police etc. but you priority must be to contact the insurance – they will very quickly send an agent to the scene. DON”T try and sort this out yourself – you can’t do it. I’ve seen time and again foreigners arguing the toss, presumably citing their home country’s traffic laws – you will just make things worse – remember to, if you raise your voice, you have lost. Helmet Why would you ride any bike without a helmet. helmet use is legally required for motorcycle drivers and passengers. Enforcement is stricter in some areas than others but new laws and the fact that a good helmet is becoming a status symbol means that helmet wearing amongst locals is becoming more common. And non-wearing is so easy to spot it’s just free money for the police.

Confused is what most farang motorists are, but there ego takes over and there brains disengage

THere is a key to driving in Thailand.. Thai driving culture is influenced by the country’s historical reliance on river transport. This results in fluid, sometimes driving behaviour that can only be accounted for by realising this as it resembles manoeuvring a boat on water. So ,understanding Thai driving involves recognizing its unique mix of practical road realities and cultural influences from river transport. For a safer experience, use caution, respect local road rules, and rely on technology for navigation. …..remember whilst driving, it’s a good idea to repeat to yourself “I’m in a boat” “I’m in a boat”

No it doesn't....even with a small driver you will see damage. It is not so much the compression as the wear and tear of repeated getting in and out. You can of course use experience to make a judgement but driver seat wear and tear is remarkably consistent. Certain characteristics only come with mileage.

if you can't tell that, get a friend to come along who does. THere are a lot of "paranoia" tales about second hand cars - if you know bit about what your after and have researched the prices either private or dealer, you can get a really good deal - especially on 1 or 2 year old cars. Mileage is so important - learn to tell if the odometer is lying. A good indicator is the drivers seat - they don't last much more than 300k and after about 160 show signs - so if the o=dometre says 80 k and the seat says 160k, believe the seat.

No - just confirmation bias. I notice since Covid the obligatory police publicity campaigns of the holiday periods (NY and SK) the po=lice have started to categorise the "causes" of accidents as "speeding, drink drive and "Changing lanes" - the fact that these categories are not accurately identified or even real just shows how poor they are at road safety. Up to 93 % of road crashes are caused by "human error" - unfortunately most people have no idea what that is and think is "bad driving" (subjective) by others - the truth is it is EVERYONE who makes the errors and like chao theory they can multiple from a very small "tick" to a muliple pile up in seconds.

Which restaurant???

I'm sure this will make you feel much better in the event of a crash or fire.

"It seems you don't understand - I'm not comparing to other countries - I'm talking about facts as opposed to conjecture. You cannot get information about the numbers of accidents in Thailand just from the papers and headlines Drivers and passengers of buses represent about 1% of all road deaths in Thailand. by IATSS

deaths per vehicle miles Death per 100k Deaths per number of vehicles Deaths per number of vehicles per mile THere are many ways of looking at road and travel safety.