citybiker

It's actually hilarious how the ordinary Brits with no power at all, are willing to push the responsibility from UK politicians to EU politicians. 

 

At what point do you realise that UK politicians are really bad folks? Those 'men' are way worse and way more selfish people, compared what you encounter at EU. 

 

But hey, I guess everything bad comes from EU.. said by UK politicians. 

 

You should keep on following your beloved and personally voted for politicians. They know what is the best for the country, the Queen and for the flag!

I dislike UK politicians, especially those who pledge a referendum then renegade, the same very person who is probably one the UK’s most despised man, not difficult to identify.

Talking of despised, this very term is very appropriate as these unelected MEP & Brussels self proclaimed elite seem to think they can over-rule the UK’s own Parliament. So I don’t hate the EU I despise its ignorance to solving real serious issues, along with despising their arrogance along with to reform requests fall on deaf ears.

Full Accountability will eventually return to Westminster so the electorate have the option to sack MP’s if they’re unfit for purpose, and most of all ‘serve’ those who elect them.

The sacking of unelected MEP’s within Brussels isn’t an option.

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UK is still a democracy isn't it?  The majority won, end of story !

I speak as an American.  An American Billionaire states the British Voters are stupid for Brexit?  Of course he has to throw in the "Trump" card.  The word "Trump" is becoming another word for stupid? This right out of the CNN/Democratic Party/Clinton playbook.  Maybe Bloomberg is considering a run in 2020?  Then good luck to him.  Because he is so rich and will not a single penny in campaign donations.   Has Nigel Farage given his reaction to Bloomberg's declaration about the stupidity of British Voters?

Oh wonderful, yet another American (billionaire too) spouting off against the U.K. due to Brexit.
IIRC DC got Obama to try and muster a little overseas influence, back of the queue and all that tosh.

All that anti-Brexit project fear nonsense too, people who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.


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And of course Eire voted out in the 1st referendum don't forget, but were given a few worthless promises and made to vote again...

 

 

Oh yes, ‘that’ 1st Eire referendum result which had they’re arms twisted/pressurised by the EU to rethink until it pleased Brussels.

Rather ironic, hypocrisy calling the British Spineless for following through despite the controversy.

(At least SNP Sturgeon got the message on referendums)

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Nasty piece of work. The Brits aren't ignoring their long lost Irish relatives anymore and willing to pay good money for the passport too. Maybe the Irish should get them to sing Amhran Na Bhfiann while are applying.   
Meanwhile please keep up this Brexit lark they'll take those jobs and investments lovely jubley.
 
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/oct/22/dublin-ramps-up-bid-to-lure-post-brexit-european-medical-agency
 
And County Kerry is paradise compared to most of the blighted post industrial overcrowded UK you gobshite :).
 
 
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For those residing in Spain, possible reassurance.
Brexit: Expats given 'no disruption' pledge by Spanish government - BBC News
https://apple.news/AnRq0CEKoT7q3IIxWZ9zbGQhttps://apple.news/AnRq0CEKoT7q3IIxWZ9zbGQ


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Will Lewis take F1 Drivers championship tonight???
 
Probably not, he needs to win 16 more points than Seb and 3 more than Valtteri.
 
But there again LH  has a white wash to complete and Seb is so desperate I can see him taking out another driver at the first corner and if it is Kimi    ...well Ferrari will be in the market for another driver for the rest of the season and next year

The famous EU red tape that made it 10X EASIER to trade with 500 million trade bloc.

You couldn't make this stuff up!

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The only part of EU pensions is the UK EU staff outstanding liabilities, which has already been noted.
The figures being thrown are proposals, nothing concrete has been accepted even though these figures are fair for the transition period, seeing as the EU are still refusing to submit 'the EU figure' can be seen as a couple of things:

A, They know whatever figure will be scrutinised, especially from a legal perspective.
B, Any attempt to purge more than what we have already committed to will show the EU are simply in financial fantasy wish list land.

Lastly, IIRC no other non-EU member has the ECJ as a overseeing legal court for EU nationals within other countries Brussel's know EU nationals (3M) will be covered and looked after by the UK courts (Supreme if neccessary) and the ECJ have no business interfering over more importantly attempting to overrule.

Over ruling UK courts is another prime reason why many voted to leave.


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Excellent post. Though it's difficult to tell with Merkel. She's playing a cagey game for sure (as are all the leading players in Germany). Germany had so much to gain from a federal Europe that included the UK. But it also has an awful lot to lose from an EU that has alienated the UK.

The UK will be totally screwed in that case.I've outlined the ramifications, government tax income collapse as finance industry leaves, further pound drop, rapid interest rate hike, financial busts including government needing bailout from IMF as they won't be able to borrow on open markets, many jobs lost. Unless you understand that you are not qualified to agitate for no deal.  

Its obvious in Britain the establishment and educated folks have recently realised that they are being driven to a cliff by incompetents , they are going to take back control of this mess.

 

 Tip of the iceberg if Brexit is bad.

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-41655915

 

Rising costs

 

The Financial Lives research, the first of its kind by the regulator, revealed a range of concerns among consumers at a time of weak wage growth, but also low-cost credit.

 

It concluded that 15 million people had low levels of resilience to a bill shock, that eight million were struggling with debt, and 100,000 had used an illegal money lender in the last 12 months.

 

One in six (17%) of those with a mortgage or who are paying rent, an estimated five million people, said that they would struggle if monthly payments rose by less than £50.

 

A rise in interest rates, heavily hinted by policymakers at the Bank of England, could affect many of these people - especially if the Bank rate rose rapidly.

 

 

 

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Collapse of the financial industry & leave? EU subsidies for contingency planning.

IMF revised its forecast and have been proved wrong, again.

Further pound drop? It stabilised after the result, it will do again as its called fluctuation.

BoE have stated on numerous occasions, rate hikes will be moderate and appropriate as there fully aware of consumer debt levels and impact it would have in mortgages etc, nothing new.

Thanks for outlining your viewpoint on ramifications, I'd rather base my analysis on facts not if's, maybe, or forecasts.

As for the negotiations, they've not been concluded and I'll wait out for official releases, the reaction and contingencies applied to the result.

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I’ll just leave this here:

Brexit:

[url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41657248

RAL, clarification & scrutiny & it’s interesting that the EU still refuse to provide a figure or breakdown.

IIRC even the EU’s own legal team admitted they’ve no legal basis other than what is legally outstanding.

Overseas Brits within the EU & beyond are being prioritised, DD has repeatedly highlighted this point.

Lastly, nobody wants a no-deal as it’s not beneficial to anyone.

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You should get a prize!

 

Wrong on all three counts!

 

Amazed that an intelligent chap like you should fall for that!

 

(consumer debt is now being addressed as responsible debt. People can not afford the roof over their head.)

 

The EU do not wish to punish us. There is no evidence of that. They don't want us to leave and they can see the idiocy of it.

 

Finally, how much austerity for how long is required to pay the bankers for the mess.

 

Get rid of the bike, get a car, listen to Radio 4 [emoji846]

A fellow R4 listener [emoji106] interesting we do agree on something.

I fell for nothing, just a pragmatist.

The EU, ultimately want money & overall authority, and low & behold any country wishing to challenge & leave. The evidence to date is proposals consistently being rebuffed as it doesn’t fit the EU’s self agenda.

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YOU may not have noticed but our country is becoming increasingly F***** up. Broken society, inequality, general discord to give just 3 examples. I do not trust the nasty party to take care generally and nor do I trust the incompetent, financially incontinent trots to sort this out.

 

Witness the universal credit farago! Look at the unsustainable consumer debt problems!

 

Meanwhile the myopic "Leave means Leave" bastards are slavering with blood lust excitement.

 

Thank goodness for our European friends

I’m fully aware that the current Government is repairing the mess which they inherited, I distrust Labour even further than any other party to address the real serious unpopular decisions that’s required.

Nobody likes change, but an unfit for purpose system requires addressing.

Consumer debt problem is also self fiscal management responsibility too.

As for European friends, the same very friends that are attempting to punish the U.K. for leaving.

Who needs enemies with friends like that.

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Being told something by a member of the BBC QT audience is clearly the final word on anything and everything.

No, it really doesn't, the UK government ignores the growing inequality, they have no interest in reversing the trend, they are also quite clearly not as fond of human rights, they wanted out of the court of human rights long ago, we also cannot claim to be a bastion of world peace as a recent invader of nations, perhaps the environment is a valid claim, but again no where near the levels of the EU who are the clear world leader in that respect.

Vince Cable is a total nonentity, he is anti brexit (anti democratic.) Why you keep bringing his name up is a mystery, he will never be in power. 

He was bluntly told this specific point by a member of the recent BBC Question Time audience, fair play to Vince he took it well & accepted this fact.

Pity others don’t follow his example.

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The Visegrad group?  The only country there that has not done extremely well out of the EU is Hungary, Poland, Czech and Slovakia are booming, what are you thinking?  The majority of countries have done very well, all have seen real improvement, to call the EU a failure because some countries have done worse than others is ridiculous, even the ones which have ended up with a debt problem have seen massive life improvements for their poor, unless someone actually has some evidence to the contrary then I think we shall have to conclude that actually it has been a success.

Clarification, I stated the EU refused to reform not a failure.

V4, Financial aspect improvement, you mean they can’t afford to leave being heavily reliant?

The immigration issues, a couple of countries independently adopted its own deterrent & also refusing Merkel’s refugee quota? Result warning & threats from the EU.

The Mediterranean immigration issue, despite maritime taxi service the EU fails to grasps this serious problem leading to certain countries again taking its individual actions, much to the EU’s disapproval, see the trend.

Lastly, the last point & result from the recent Germany elections, Bundestag now has AfD, despite controversial it is now a part of which Merkel can no longer ignore.

Summary, I don’t hate the EU however the EU primarily thrives on success when not faced with serious challenges so please don’t emphasis the EU is harmonious success without including a balanced perspective.

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I suggest that the Brexiteers on TV do not read the OECD report, it won't help you're blood pressure one little bit!  Worry not though, it is highly unlikely that there will be a second referendum. The government have said they are going ahead with Brexit no matter how damaging it is going to be.
 
Some good news for the ex-pats though.  Inflation is up in the UK (3% in September) and the highest for five years.  It is mainly to do with the fall in sterling and will probably mean an increase in interest rates next month.  That should stabilise the pound.  For the time being anyway.

 
The leaders and sponsors of the movement fighting for a referendum were bankers, that is a fact.
 
Obviously UKIP can be "dragged" in, it was them who campaigned for years to get the referendum, it would never have happened without them.  And leave voters have been mislead regarding their agenda, they are helpful idiots in the classic sense.
 
Of course the EU has been a success, the original idea was to prevent another major war in Europe, this is the longest period in recorded history without a major war in Europe.  They also redistribute wealth from the richest to the poorest regions, meeting one of their other targets to tackle inequality and succeeding in boosting millions of people from sustainance levels, building infrastructure, universities and hospitals in the poorest region she of Europe.  They are also the most pro-environment government the world has ever seen, the successes are numerous.  Quite easy to say "what a crock" without a single fact to back it up though, hey?
 
And no, this is not about what you want, this is about what the majority want, this is called democracy and we will have another refendum because the majority want to remain in the EU, so more like see you next year.  And before calling other people muppets try reading outside of your usual narrow band and educate yourself just a little regarding the EU, what they have done for you, your country and what the real agenda is for those talking you into voting leave, nothing is as you think it is, you have been stitched up a kipper mate.
 

Yet another thread contained with bitterness as the U.K. had the spine to hold a referendum and carry it out despite it being controversial.

The EU had an opportunity to acknowledge reforms were required yet were complacent & thought it was business as usual, I for one hope that more increased frequent talks do result in a positive outcome.

The U.K. leaves in March 2019, the 2 year’s proposed transition is mutually beneficial for both sides, no moaning, snivelling or sniping its what the CBI (its members) requested.

Time to move on & get a grip of the situation.


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No, not quite. I blame the educationally under achieved for the Brexit majority. I blame successive governments as the root cause of the dissatisfaction.

Educationally under achieved, is that an academically supported with evidence thesis, bearing in mind Brexit is incomplete or just viewpoint? (Element of sarcasm included)

Otherwise, that’s a lot considering a 17million majority ;-)

Lastly, I also agree reference government dissatisfaction.

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Not true.
 
Since I first took an interest in UK immigration nearly 18 years ago, successive governments, Labour, the Coalition and the Tories, have introduced new rules and fees to make it harder and more expensive for non EEA national immigrants who wish to enter the UK; whether they be workers, students, family members of British citizens or any other category covered by the immigration rules.
 
They have not done the same for EEA nationals simply because freedom of movement has been a cornerstone of the EEC and then EU from the very beginning; the 2004 directive introduced nothing new, it simply brought all the various directives covering freedom of movement into one.
 
In 1973 the UK agreed to freedom of movement, and so is bound by it until Brexit.
 
Of course, people forget that, at least until Brexit, British citizens enjoy the same rights in other EEA member states, and Switzerland, as their nationals do in the UK.

To my mind your post is an accurate assumption.
Was it possible to sort these problems within the EU ? No,  simply because i don't believe the EU ever believed we would leave and therefore would not compromise.
Our leader was not strong enough and excepted their ridiculous offer on all fronts