JBChiangRai

I would prefer to see some evidence of that....

I think there is an issue with how we consider depreciation of EV's. A car (to take Vinny's example) that used to cost 1,189k and now costs 599k by comparing to a purchase cost of 1,189k will have depreciated massively. But if we compare it to the new cost of 599k then it hasn't depreciated so much. I think the moment a manufacturer slashes the price of their cars, all used examples take an extra hit of depreciation. Is it fair to say EV's depreciate rapidly because of that? aren't we taking an extraordinary event to make a generalised conclusion? I think manufacturers are finding their feet regarding pricing of EV's. Particularly the Chinese who aren't slashing their prices to survive, they are simply adjusting them to what they should be, and especially with the price of batteries falling. Chinese EV's are sold in China at a realistic price, nobody thinks they are dumping product there, yet their cars are much cheaper there than Thailand which IMHO should be harmonised to that price structure. There is no valid reason they should cost so much more here. I think they entered the Thai market thinking they could make a quick killing and now that they have competition, ( mostly from each other) they are stabilising to real price and real value. The big issue I think, is if China can build and sell quality EV's in China to a price, why can't the rest of the world even get remotely close to that? Competition is great for the consumer, it pushes price down and quality up.

I can only use it exactly the same charges as the other promotion.

LOL, my 30,000 THB credit is subject to the same conditions as the free charging promotion. It's non-transferable, I don’t think I can even charge my daughters car or my friends X-Power, though I will try.

We have a house in Bo Sang with a wall charger, I can charge there at normal PEA rates, which is better than the paid Rêver chargers. I would like to charge for free but it’s a fair drive to the free ones and eats into my time with my daughters. After January promotion ends it should be ok.

Definitely no jealousy here, I could have had one at any time in the last 30 years. They are bad for business too, your customers think you're making too much money and that you make questionable decisions. They are also uncomfortable, impractical and until recently, unreliable, maybe they still are. I would take a Porsche over Italian exotica every time (and I did in Thailand 3 years ago). My style is more comfort, though I do like performance, but preferably in silence.

I agree with you, it didn’t go far enough by explaining how large the effect was. I tend to believe what the Tesla Guru says and that higher state of charge is detrimental. It’s what I’ve also read on battery university. EE does explain the chemistry behind this and it make sense. Generally, I find EE quite good, he spent almost 18 minutes explaining why a high charge state degrades the battery and only a few seconds saying there’s one study that contradicts this. It’s easy for me to keep my SoC low because most of my journeys are 10 to 30 km, I only go to Chiang Mai occasionally and only once further than that in the last five years. Until I watch that video, I used to keep SoC between 80 and 100%, I don’t do that anymore.

On the face of it, that’s a very valid concern. The reality is most owners of EV’s will never use a charging station. I’ve had EV’s for five years and I’ve used a charging station en-route once because I needed to, I was there for 12 minutes only and a few times because charging was free thanks to BYD. Unless I travel more than 400 km I will never need to use a charging station.

What you do is a compromise. Maximum battery longevity is achieved through inaccurate range display. Accurate range display will not achieve maximum battery longevity. So you have to decide which you want. You can have one or the other, but you cannot have both.

Again, watch the video if you want to know why they recommend this. This will not give you the maximum battery life.

Sorry, you didn’t address this to me, but I will jump in if that’s OK. I am fairly sure BYD use active balancing, the BMS is balancing the cells all the time so speed of charging probably won’t affect that process, other than it may not have finished balancing the cells for some considerable time after finishing charging. For those cars that have passive , balancing, typically MG, then the balancing occurs at the end of the AC charge cycle. The system uses a system of resistors and wastes a little energy as it brings all the batteries to 100%. Individual cells either take more charge or blow off the excess power through resistors generating heat. When I built the LFP battery pack for my solar power, I added active balancers. I did that specifically because I didn’t want to ever charge them past 80% unless notified of a power cut if I had allowed passive balancing then they would never have balanced because I never charged them to 100%.

I don’t know by what percentage this makes a difference. He also covers in passing that temperature has a significant effect. I would be interested to know by how much temperature makes a difference. My garage is air-conditioned, but I only tend to turn it on when charging, and we have a significant surplus in solar power. We have 18 kW of grid-tied inverters and it’s very difficult to output more than maybe 8 or 9 kW, charging the car when it’s sunny, allows me to get the full output power of the inverters, but not always, we still derate to 12 kW sometimes.

To be clear. Regarding BYD LFP cars… Charging to 100% calibrates the 100% SoC level. Discharging below 10% tells the car what the capacity of the battery is (ie what SoH is). The cars BMS uses 2 techniques to determine both SoC and SoH. The first is Coulomb counting (this gets less and less accurate until it’s recalibrated by discharging below 10% followed by recharging) and secondly achieving peak voltage which tells the BMS the SoC is 100%. Charging to 100% does not tell the BMS the capacity of the battery. Measuring coulombs from 100% SoC to less than 10% or recharging from below 10% to 100% allows the BMS to measure the Coulombs and determine SoH.

This is the video, there are 4 or 5 recommendations, there is no shortcut but to watch the video. He explains the chemistry and he explains why he gives the recommendation. this is specific for LFP chemistry and does not apply to NMC.

There is a YouTube video posted on one of these forums by Engineering Explained that explains the chemistry of LFP and how to get the longest life out of your batteries. He explains what Tesla say for their LFP batteries and he goes through why they recommend that. He also goes through what Ford say. Typically, manufacturers suggest you charge to 100% and run down the battery to less than 20% and then recharge. The reason for doing this is to recalibrate the state of charge/range calculator. I explained earlier why it’s very difficult (read impossible) to determine the state of charge between 50% and something like 85%. If you are prepared to sacrifice the accuracy of the range display, then you will get the most longevity out of your battery by keeping it in the lowest state of charge possible but above 0%. If you do this, your range remaining indication is not accurate and it gets worse as time goes by, it’s only reset by charging to 100% and the batteries actual capacity cannot be determined until you go below 10%. The chemistry is clear and cannot be disputed.

There is a chance I might go to Khao Lak next month, if the flights are unusually high and if I need to go, I will probably drive. Phuket end of next week but already have 5 tickets for daughters and boyfriends.

Lamborghini and Ferrari literally shout “Look at me, I’m a spiv with new money”. The educated or professional money goes on a 911.

I will, if I don’t do it this year I’ll probably do it next year.

11 months of the year I have more solar power than I can use. Most years it’s every month. I do commute occasionally to our house in Chiang Mai. That house has a charging point for my daughters MG4, but it doesn’t have solar power, so it costs me. I would like to be able to charge up at Chiang Mai using my 30,000 baht Rêver credit, but it’s almost impossible because everybody is free charging. I would like to go on a road trip to Khao Lak, but again that’s impossible, unless I pay for all my charging.

I canceled my order, I must be very naughty indeed. NAUGHTY, NAUGHTY JBChiangrai. {flagellates self with whip o’nine tails}

It’s very difficult to tell by battery voltage with an LFP battery what the state of charge actually is when it’s charged between 50% and 85%. because the voltage is fairly flat in that region. The purpose of charging to 100% occasionally is to recalibrate the state of charge indicator, it knows when it hits a preset much higher voltage that the battery is 100% charged. The longer the interval between 100% charges, the more likely you are to find in the last 20% the indicated distance you can travel is inaccurate.

I am fairly sure BYD cars use active balancing which means they are being balanced all the time you don’t need to charge 100% to trigger the balancing cycle. AFAIK the only manufacturer to use the cheaper passive balancing at end of the charge cycle is MG, they probably save a couple of thousand baht in balancing modules.

LFP batteries will last longer if you keep them as discharged as you can without getting close to zero. I try to keep my Seal under 50% with the occasional charge to 100% when I’m commuting between Chiangrai and Chiang Mai.

I think foreigners are in the huge minority. It won’t be us causing changing policy.

My new order is 23,290 with delivery seller own fleet. Seller S.Electric. This TV is sitting atop a credenza in the kitchen with HiFi speakers either side of it, the headphone jack will plug into the amplifier Aux input so the last thing I want is another soundbar. I have an LG soundbar in the cupboard for the last 5 years.