Leaver

Do you know the road death statistics here, per year, which is mostly comprised of Thai's that have been riding since they were 10 years old? It's a national disgrace.

Do you think the Indian guys are here for the temples? ????

I think it's clear Thailand has chosen China. The US Vice President, Kamala Harris, visited Vietnam in 2021, despite covid. I think the US has given up on Thailand. I don't think Vietnam is in the pocket of the Chinese. If anything, Vietnam is making stronger ties with the west.

Yes, it's part of the Vietnamese identity to fight for their land. They will fight until there is no Vietnamese person left to keep fighting. If China did invade Vietnam, with around 100 million population, and all willing to fight, China would have to deploy a hell of a lot of their military to maintain control, which they may never actually achieve. China, the French, America, all tried and failed. Thailand does not have the proud history that Vietnam has when it comes to war.

The biggest future problem for every country in the world is China. ????

Good post. Certainly, the police tend to leave foreigners alone in Vietnam, rather than see them as someone to simply exploit. Riding a bike there, it was funny to me coming from Thailand to be waved through by Vietnamese police, whilst locals were being waved in, rather than foreigners being waved in, while locals are waved through, many clearly not wearing a helmet. I don't like a lot of chili, so Vietnamese food is good for me. In general, you can add the chili if you want, rather than the dish being cooked with chili, like many Thai dishes. I agree there's certainly some older Vietnamese who appear a little standoffish with foreigners, but the younger ones embrace the presence of foreigners, and I'm not talking about bar girls. Many want to approach and practice the few words of English they know. They only opened the borders around 1990, so there is still that small feeling of a foreigner being a novelty in Vietnam. Quite refreshing coming from Thailand, which has basically been colonized. I'm not sure where you went in Saigon, but in District 1 there is plenty of "sin" and if you know where to go in other districts, there's plenty of stand alone premises offering "sin" as well. I have not experienced anything like a gogo in Vietnam, but some places have a curtain, lounge, and pole for the girl of your choice to dance on, privately. One of my favorite memories of one of the trips I did to Vietnam was doing a 2 night Ha Long Bay cruise with an attractive bar girl. What a great time. Just on the infrastructure topic, I have posted this clip before, on a different thread. This is the sort of thing Vietnam is doing as far as infrastructure. It's world record breaking tourism infrastructure, yet, check out the drinks menu at 7:35. A local beer is 30 baht, on a nice beach, at the end of world record breaking transport. Also note the free hammocks. No mafia BS there. I also posted that within the next 10 years Vietnam will have more international airports than Thailand. It's tourism that is the advertisement for future expat retirees. This leads me to the question, what has Thailand built in recent years that benefits tourists, and their tourism industry? Year after year Thailand, and the Thai people, continue on with their belief that tourists will keep coming to Thailand, simply because it's Thailand, but Vietnam is not only competing, but building tourism infrastructure to overtake Thailand in the future. I have said it before, in many ways, Thailand could go the same way as the Nokia phone company. They had a huge share of the market, took their eyes off the ball, and ultimately went broke. Vietnam is making Thailand look like they are not only standing still, but going backwards.

No argument from me about Myanmar, Laos, and Cambodia, but what infrastructure do you see Vietnam as lacking? Communications, roads, dental are very good in Vietnam, and in some cases, better than Thailand. I agree with you about choice in the supermarket, but that will change as more and more western expats decide to reside there. I also agree with hospitals, but medical in Vietnam is fine for most issues retired expats experience on a regular basis. A lot of expats return to their home country for major surgery, usually because it free. There's the option for an expat in Vietnam to fly to Bangkok for surgery, if they chose. The flight time from Udon Thani to Bangkok is 65 mins. The flight time from a major coastal city in Vietnam is not much more. Vietnam is currently reviewing their visa classes and requirements. Should they offer a method for retirees to reside there long term, I can only see Vietnam gaining in popularity as a retirement destination as it's extremely affordable, without the nastiness of the other countries you mentioned.

In the years to come, it will become known as "The Great Straw Shortage of Pattaya 2022." ????

I didn't see "advanced age" in the thread title. It said "expats." Sure, the elderly expats will be less inclined to move and start again, but how many newly retired expats will Thailand be able to not only retain, but also attract in the future?

Why do you assume their only options are to reduce their standard of living in Thailand, or return home, when there are neighboring countries offering a similar lifestyle they enjoyed in Thailand, but are more affordable?

Will many still be able to afford to stay in the future?

Sure, but the difference is, I have entered into a contract with the landlord, and should the landlord increase the rent to an amount that doesn't accurately reflect the property market, I can vacate and rent another property. With commercial premises, particularly hospitality venues, the contract the bar owner has with their Thai landlord is reflected in the prices of the goods and services offered. In effect, the rent, as with other expenses, is pushed onto the consumer. You could have two similar bars, in close proximity, both offering the same goods and services, but one has higher rent, so a Singha beer in that bar may be 80 baht, why the other bar with cheaper rent can offer the same Singha beer for 70 baht. That Singha beer is the exact same product for both bars, it even came from the same factory, but it's 14% more expensive in one bar. The answer for the bar owner with the expensive rent is to find another place to rent, but it costs a lot to move. Indeed Soi LK Metro and Soi Baukhao are a product of ridiculous rents in Walking Street. As prices rise in LK and Baukhao, how long before then next enclave is discovered? As I have said before, Thai landlords are playing a big part in pushing the market here past what the market is prepared to pay, and I think tourists arranging to meet girls and cutting out the lady drinks and bar fines will grow in popularity. Salaries for the girls have not increased at the same rate rents have. Let's be honest, Pattaya Beach is terrible, and the water even worse. Basic infrastructure here is lacking. Eg. decent side walks, flooding etc. However, the adult nightlife is probably the best in the world. The Thai landlords know this, so rents are high. They want their cut of the sex trade. Then, along comes a new way to meet girls working in the sex trade here, which was already happening pre covid, and it's bound to have an impact on the percentages for bar owners. The only question is just how much percentage? How will bar owners make their Thai landlords understand that their takings are down because tourists are coming into their bar with a freelancer off the internet? They may be still selling alcohol, but just not at the lady drink prices. The bar owner still has his own girl he has to pay a salary, but with no bar fines being paid, why both having salaried hookers? I've asked members here how much bar fine would they be prepared to pay, before deciding it's not worth it. No one has answered. One member was honest and admitted he hasn't paid a bar fine for a long time. Once again, if expats aren't paying, for how long can you rely on tourists to keep paying, particularly as prices rise, and the word spreads about use of the apps? Is it your position online will have no impact whatsoever?

So true, but unfortunately, that doesn't account for all the other fools on the road doing the wrong thing, who could wipe you out at any time.

Are you suggesting the west would do absolutely nothing, other than to "condemn" China's actions in the media?

Perhaps it could be turned into whatever the west would want it to be. Eg. they are still looking for Saddam's weapons of mass destruction. Sure, but times have changed, and due to covid, the west grew weaker, while China grew stronger. Is the UK communists, with over a billion people, and a global super power? Your comparison is not relevant.

The girl can do with the money as she pleases, as she earned it. The Thai landlord on the other hand.................

Thai police should check his computers. He would have been doing the same here. I would rather see him do some time in a Thai prison than in a UK prison.

Western tourists. I have always said the numbers were up, just not the money. Never said they did. They were in decline. Some western markets gained, some lost. Why did Thailand lose some demographics, and if they were losing some, could they lose more? What did Thailand do to turn around those losses? With most of the money being repatriated back to China. Your figures don't address zero baht tourism. I didn't make up the term zero baht tourism. You you deny it exists? I would seriously question those percentages. One look at all the coach buses and it's hard to see Chinese FIT's getting close to equal numbers of organized tours. True, but why do you dismiss it completely? I have posted a link of a confiscated assets sale showing so many boats, buses etc, and that was just for Phuket. Also, how relevant is 2016 to 2019, when the whole zero baht tourism really was booming in Thailand? Once again, just like TAT, you are looking at the big tourist numbers, but not seeing the biger picture of the money trail starting and ending in China, for the majority of those bigger tourist numbers. They gave up. It was too big to enforce, and they ran the risk of millions of Chinese going elsewhere. Due to covid, it's a different game now. Who knows when the Chinese will be allowed to travel, and the Russians will not be back anytime soon. It could be years before Thailand sees its biggest tourist market, pre covid, return. Hospitality establishments were struggling pre covid. I started a thread about closing bars and restaurants. You are looking to a "reset" but what has changed in Pattaya to cause a reset? Those that stopped coming to Pattaya in 2019 have no reason to come back to Pattaya, post covid. Perhaps they have found greener pastures. So, covid aside, what has changed in Pattaya to lure back those lost in 2019? They still can't even build decent side walks here. The 2019 / 20 high season was the quietest I have ever seen. For how long can covid be blamed, before Thailand addresses it tourism industry issues?

I don't disagree. To be honest, I thought China would have moved on Taiwan already. There would have to be some consequences. Just what they would be, and what effect they have, would be interesting.

I agree, as we all did, before we wised up, but for most of us, that was pre internet. Now, the information is easily available, and so it meeting Thai girls online.

They can arrange their sex in Thailand before they arrive.

Have you considered sanctions being put on China for invading Taiwan? I know it seems impossible, because over decades the world has become reliant on China, but there would be some action taken which is bound to effect the world. I was not commenting so much on exports from Taiwan, which would also be effected, but mainly actions taken against China by the west, and then China's counter actions.

Sure, but now there's a platform in which tourists can do it without a need to even be discreet, and without bar hopping. When bar fines were realistic, I would pay, and if I liked the girl, get her number or messaging app and then it was between myself and the girl from that point on, but with the apps, the bar is cut out of the traditional sales of lady drinks and bar fines completely. If expats are not paying bar fines, why would tourists?

Sure, but the customer is not making so much of a donation to a Thai landlord.

Errr, for a start, how many Russian tourists do you see in Thailand these days? The Russian ruble dived. T he price of gasoline went up in most countries, including Thailand, which causes the price of just about everything to go up.