Colin Yai

"...following business costs of employers..."

how about the people man? this poor excuse of a new wage means very little costs for these companies. how about their employees that lost everything: no 2-4 month salary, no home, no belongings, some no more families.

this makes me sick how money corrupts the world!

occupy bangkok, anyone?

You go first, let me know how you get on.

i wish, unfortunatly trying to get farang to come with me would be hard as they are here mostly to avert money issues and have a nice holiday or retirement. trying to get thais to come would be harder as they wouldnt understand what the occupy movement is about; no longterm visions.

im not trying to follow reds, yellows or whatever colors that want taksin here or not, the world needs to wake up from this monetary economic system. there is a better system: the resource economy...

Obviously you espouse to full blown Communism ,lessons from the past indicate it was a rip roaring success

Thanks for the link Dan , reading it twice just to digest it I would think that a meaningful ceasefire is dreamsville, sooner or later this is going to come to a head with obviously more Hamas casualty's and the usual wringing of hands by the left wing "bleeding heart" brigade blaming every thing on Israel as per usual , what ever comes out of Gaza is Hamas's total responsibility ,and for anyone to think any different is IMHO fanciful and biased thinking.

The point I am working up to is that Hamas conducts themselves more like an Israeli proxy than an Iranian proxy.

Perhaps so, but pretty much everything you post is some kind of a a conspiracy theory and suggesting that Israel is shooting rockets at its own citizens fits into that category very well. Some times - many times - things are just as they seem and Islamic radicals conducting themselves like the Three Stooges and shooting themselves in the foot is nothing new.

Personally speaking I think we can safely dispel any thoughts of some sort of unholy alliance between the two,of course your description of Hamas shooting itself in the foot fits in with my thinking ,but as long as Hamas gets very well paid for doing so I'm afraid the trend will continue unabated,and any talk of a meaningful ceasefire, independently brokered or otherwise IMHO is a joke!.

Another excellent thought provoking post Pakboong, you can certainly string the right words together !, maybe it would open a few doors for you if you Google up "Hamas money Jihad"

Thanks Colin, I have pretty much read every piece of news ever printed on this subject.

For sure Pakboong I acknowledge this simple fact, without a doubt I find both yourself and Morch's posts make me sit back and think somewhat!

All of these people have signed up for a 100-1 kill ratio because they are stupid?

They have decisively lost every war with the Israelis since they started attacking them, but they keep on starting new ones. Maybe it is time to accept the obvious.

Quite correct UG,Unfortunately for the normal guy living in Gaza the obvious will never come about, as the Hamas leaders are being bankrolled to the tune of tens of millions to fight the proxy war against Israel for those who's yellow streak down their backbone's are almost as big as their finance's .

Another excellent thought provoking post Pakboong, you can certainly string the right words together !, maybe it would open a few doors for you if you Google up "Hamas money Jihad"

I wonder how much Cissy got paid for handing this bilge to the gutter media ?!!

From 1600GMT Swift banking facilities are to be withdrawn from Iran, so they will be cut off from the banking system. According to the BBC news today the Belguim based Swift will cut the link on saturday at 1600GMT. This will be a big wake up call, presumably the only way trade can be done will either be in goods, services or gold.

Hmm ,A pretty Draconian collective punishment against not only a "peaceful" Govt but the ordinary Iranian citizen too ,for SBF to adopt something so severe its quite obvious they must be somewhat dubious of Iran's actual intentions .

Hamas can't be that stupid.

Look at their history. They ARE.

Yeah UG, Stupid they may be ,but not that stupid cos as long as Hamas keeps the "pot boiling" against Israel and fireing a few rockets and the Israelis appearing heavy handed to the political left in the defense of their own citizens then untold "sympathy" millions will keep pouring in to their coffers , why not Google up "Hamas money Jihad" a virtual welter of info is there for all to see.

Colin, can I ask you for an honest opinion.

If the UN bombed the crap out of Gaza and there was no more Hamas. No rockets fired into Israel. No more hate speach etc etc. The Palestinians just wanted to be left alone and go about their business on the land they now occupy.

Do you think Israel would forever abide by that or do you think in that in 10 or 20 years time Israel will need more land due to increasing population or whatever, and begin further settlements.

Of course there may be unthought of issues but generally speaking do you think the fighting would forever end?

One thing a lot of Egyptians and Israelis agree on is that having as little to do with Gaza is probably best. This goes way back before the Hamas.

Israel never conquered territories due to population constraints, and actually gave back quite a chunk (Sinai peninsula) in return for peace. This was this was over 30 years ago, and doesn't look like an Israeli land grab is on the cards.

If Israel took land the traditional way - by beating its enemies in wars, it could own a lot more territory than it now has. It could own Sanai and most, if not all, of Syria.

For those who are shaving hairs about who fired the rockets from Gaza: It's a moot point. If there's an authority there, then they're responsible for missiles fired from there. If the missiles are not their doing, then they should find and punish the punks firing the missiles. If I'm the head of a household, and one of my young sons is causing serious trouble in town, it's at least partly my responsibility to discipline the kid.

Hamas has been the elected Government in Gaza since June 2007 so therefore is fully responsible for the endless Rocket attacks into Israel, and if they are not responsible,then who is?

Several sources to include both Israeli news papers report that Hamas had nothing to do with the 200 rockets. I find that hard to believe also. It is a strange turn to say the least. I have no reason not to believe it otherwise.

"There's no doubt that one reason Islamic Jihad is continuing its rocket fire on southern Israel is its glaring lack of success. After firing more than 200 rockets at the Negev, they still haven't killed any Israelis."

http://www.haaretz.c...israel-1.418075

You will have to pardon me if I don't take your word over theirs.

Not a case of taking someone words over another, we're talking about two different things here.

The Hamas wasn't doing the shooting this time.

The Hamas is in control in Gaza and therefore being held responsible as well.

How do you think the IDF knew that in this particular case, it was not Hamas doing the shooting? That certainly appears strange to me. A 200 rocket attack conducted by a terrorist group that seldom if ever, fires rockets from Gaza. Again, the rockets were not lethal. What would the point be of Hamas letting another terrorist group launch from their turf knowing the Israeli response would be harsh and again, no real damage was done to the Israelis.

200 of either Grads or Qassams take up a lot of space and would need a lot of storage, not to mention a large number of handlers and launch sites. Isn't it a bit odd that suddenly, a new group gets into the fray and both Israel and Hamas know who it was. Israel even claims to have attacked the launchers. They would have had to know where exactly the launches originated in order to attack the launch sites. Days of vapor trails from the launch sites would be pretty easy targets. What was Hamas doing, hanging out at the malls until all was over? Don't you find any of that particular story odd? I find it very odd.

Somebody on the ground conducted a body count and identification of who were militants and who were collateral damage. Who exactly would have that job? Perhaps Hamas?

Israel is claiming a 90% success rate on their missle shield. Wouldn't it be considered time well spent improving that rate to 100%. Generally speaking, if 90% is achievable, it is likely that 100% is also achievable. 90% is pretty good and will take care of most any missiles launched from pretty much any where. It makes sense that if Iran were to develop a nuclear tipped missile and launched it at Israel; today it would only have a one in 9 chance of getting past the shield. Not to mention that Iran would be immediately vaporized by a nuclear retaliation.

None of it makes sense to me.

Every time Rockets rain from Hamas held territory into Israel a terrible price is paid in return ,its a bit like a boxer who has been Knocked out by the same opponent in the first round for his last 20 fights screaming for a rematch, which makes about as much sense

Steve,The water here often has a strange odour ,something like sulphur I am informed by many who live here in Issan (Ban Kruat area),maybe this is something to do with ages old volcanic action in the area.??

Many of the same insurgents who are taking shots at westerners are also fighting the Pakistani establishment. Pakistan, as with most Middle Eastern countries, is heading towards inevitable rule by Islamist hot heads. It's a downward spiral that's near impossible to counter, because of needing a strong resolve to eradicate the hot heads. It's like trying to get cockroaches out of an old house they've been in for decades. Probably what Europeans and N.Americans should do, is let them stew in their own juices. Unfortunately, the hot heads are not content with merely messing up their own houses, they feel compelled to spill their venom over to western countries. Hence, things like 9-11, the Madrid bombings, New Delhi, etc. happen. Damned if you do, and damned if you don't.

Maidu , please cease writing the truth as this often confuses other peoples beliefs

Colin, can I ask you for an honest opinion.

If the UN bombed the crap out of Gaza and there was no more Hamas. No rockets fired into Israel. No more hate speach etc etc. The Palestinians just wanted to be left alone and go about their business on the land they now occupy.

Do you think Israel would forever abide by that or do you think in that in 10 or 20 years time Israel will need more land due to increasing population or whatever, and begin further settlements.

Of course there may be unthought of issues but generally speaking do you think the fighting would forever end?

Wallaby I seriously suggest you read in its entirety the Hamas "Covenant or Charter", its quite easy just type it in on Google, then give me your opinion, and I see I have no reply About the ultra extremist Wahhabi sect in Saudi Arabia.

No I haven't commented on Wahhabi as Saudi Arabia is not the topic of this thread.

I asked what I thought was quite a simple question yet your response has nothing to do with my question. In your second response you again didn't answer.

I am not trying to be a smartass in asking you, it is a genuine question. If you don't wish to answer then that is fine, but please don't quote my question if your response has nothing to do with it.

Has The Hamas Charter or Covenant nothing to do with the present problems between Hamas and Israel?

I don't know some people think that the Palestinians have to bend over and take it before they are considered for inclusion as a country. Why is it that the Palestinians have to accept Israel's demands. If Israel wanted peace surely they too could have it by accepting the Palestinian demands.

But for some on here it is just one way traffic and can be no other way.

Fortunately, the majority of the world doesn't think like some on here, they already recognise Palestine, and the number is growing.

Even without any peace agreement with Israel they will still eventually have full international recognition. If Israel isn't careful, and doesn't start coming to the party, they may find that they are the ones that will end up with nothing.

According to Hamas the state of Israel does not exist!.and just what are Hamas's demands according to their own charter,and just What are Israels demands???

Colin, can I ask you for an honest opinion.

If the UN bombed the crap out of Gaza and there was no more Hamas. No rockets fired into Israel. No more hate speach etc etc. The Palestinians just wanted to be left alone and go about their business on the land they now occupy.

Do you think Israel would forever abide by that or do you think in that in 10 or 20 years time Israel will need more land due to increasing population or whatever, and begin further settlements.

Of course there may be unthought of issues but generally speaking do you think the fighting would forever end?

Just to set the record straight, Israels military superiority over Hamas in Gaza is so great that it does not need anyone's help to reduce Gaza to ashes within a week! ,just ask the Egyptians!, the Israelis could just carpet bomb them from miles up with undoubtedly the finest Airforce in the Middle East and quite possibly the finest military pilots in the world, whilst surrounding them with their Armour on land and their ships by sea ,and I ask again why on earth should the Israelis want to obliterate Fattah on the West Bank or are they not so called Palestinians too?

Colin, can I ask you for an honest opinion.

If the UN bombed the crap out of Gaza and there was no more Hamas. No rockets fired into Israel. No more hate speach etc etc. The Palestinians just wanted to be left alone and go about their business on the land they now occupy.

Do you think Israel would forever abide by that or do you think in that in 10 or 20 years time Israel will need more land due to increasing population or whatever, and begin further settlements.

Of course there may be unthought of issues but generally speaking do you think the fighting would forever end?

Wallaby I seriously suggest you read in its entirety the Hamas "Covenant or Charter", its quite easy just type it in on Google, then give me your opinion, and I see I have no reply About the ultra extremist Wahhabi sect in Saudi Arabia.

I wonder why is it that Fattah on the West bank remains virtual unscathed from Israeli "attacks" ,and Hamas in Gaza is bearing the brunt,Wallaby?

Because Hamas are morons and not worth a pinch of shit and need to pull their heads in.

As do Israel with their building of settlements.

I'm not one sided, I'm anti those that think Israel are angels and can do no wrong.

Yeah Wallaby but this goes somewhat deeper than "illegal" settlements ,how much Land has Israel "stolen" from Iran or maybe the biggest backer of state sponsored terrorism Saudi Arabia?? never heard of the Wahhabi Islamic sect ?I seriously suggest you do a little research ,this "war" is against Jews and questions their right to exist pure and simple ,just the same as it was in the dark days of the Holocaust .

I wonder why is it that Fattah on the West bank remains virtual unscathed from Israeli "attacks" ,and Hamas in Gaza is bearing the brunt,? Flying ,Wallaby? Curse the thought it could not be that Fattah on the West Bank want peace and Dialogue with the Israelis.

So what? They hurt, maim and kill people and if they could figure out how to kill more, they would. They are terrorists and they target innocent civilians in any way that they can.

How many have they killed? Even you admitted that killing isn't their main objective.

How many have the Israelis killed?

Obviously every time they use a hammer to drive a nail they break their thumbs ,either they are very stupid or getting well paid for doing so

And the majority of the world agreeing with Palestine.

There is no country called Palestine to agree with, but there would be if they ever agreed to make peace.

I didn't say there was a country called Palestine. Please learn to read. Though I do accept that to jusify your argument you have to clutch at straws.

Your view is a minority and is wrong. The majority of the world knows you are wrong and agrees with the Palestinians. Put any spin on it you like and believe what you like. If you are happy being wrong then that's a matter for you.

Of course the "MAJORITY" once said the Earth was flat did,nt it

The so called Country of Palestine is split in two halfs, Hamas in Gaza and Fattah on the West Bank ,All through this thread Fattah has never been mentioned as showing violent tendencies towards Israel or Israel towards Fattah maybe this should spell it out EXACTLY what I wrote previously if Hamas just listened to Mahmoud Abbas and not their well heeled leaders who subscribe Jihad then there would be peace and a state called Palastine with months

Thank you Pakboong for your most informative links ,as stated previously which was indicated quite plainly in the links ,it is NOT Palestine that is the problem but Hamas in Gaza ,not once did I read of Fattah in the West Bank ,as stated previously too the Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas is branded a traitor by Hamas, A traitor for wanting peace with Israel!!!, as for the targeted killings ,far better to target an individual deemed a threat to Israel's security than a fire rockets indiscriminately into a civilian area with no idea what or who they are going to hit .

But who do they hit? How many have been hit?

Do you really think they are that bad a shot that with hundreds of rockets fired into civilian areas that they can't even hit a target, any target?

If Hamas are that bad with their aim I don't know why Israel even bothers swatting them away.

Are you saying they fire their rockets and pray to Allah they do not hit anyone or anything!

Thank you Pakboong for your most informative links ,as stated previously which was indicated quite plainly in the links ,it is NOT Palestine that is the problem but Hamas in Gaza ,not once did I read of Fattah in the West Bank ,as stated previously too the Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas is branded a traitor by Hamas, A traitor for wanting peace with Israel!!!, as for the targeted killings ,far better to target an individual deemed a threat to Israel's security than a fire rockets indiscriminately into a civilian area with no idea what they are going to hit .

Actually they do know what they are going to hit. They sent 627 in last year and killed one Israeli so it is pretty clear to them what they are actually going to hit.

As UG said is it used more as a weapon of fear , but a killer never the less, Hamas and their acolytes know full well that to open up with the "heavy stuff" and start slaughtering Israeli's ad lib would mean only one thing , A hole in the ground were Gaza used to be!, far better to "play" at it and receive Millions from Iran ,and invite Pity plus money from the likes of Norway and Sweden.

Thank you Pakboong for your most informative links ,as stated previously which was indicated quite plainly in the links ,it is NOT Palestine that is the problem but Hamas in Gaza ,not once did I read of Fattah in the West Bank ,as stated previously too the Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas is branded a traitor by Hamas, A traitor for wanting peace with Israel!!!, as for the targeted killings ,far better to target an individual deemed a threat to Israel's security than a fire rockets indiscriminately into a civilian area with no idea what or who they are going to hit .