Colin Yai

Its no secret that Hamas has labeled the Palestinian president Abu Mazan (Mahmoud Abbas) a traitor simply because the guy wants peace and dialogue with both Israel and America ,for Hamas as it says quite plainly in their own "Covenant " or "charter" the only way forward is through " Jihad" against Israel ,if Hamas in Gaza is not really at peace with Fattah on the West bank ,there is no hope whatsoever for a lasting peace with Israel, it is NOT Palestine thats the problem ,the Stumbling block is Hamas and of course their bankrollers Iran, pure and simple.

The sanctity of Life means nothing to the Muslims, they even use Women and kids as human shields, and when some young kid dons a vest packed with 10kgs of semtex and ball bearings and blows himself and harmless civilians to kingdom come he is proudly shown off by his parents as a martyr to the "cause", faced with this sort of utter lunacy there will never be any sort of lasting peace between Islam and the Jews.

but Colin we have never heard of anyone being put forward as a truly independent mediator ?

because I think one side would always object.

honestly how can the existing mediators be regarded as independent? it is bordering on being a farce.

and then the mediator could start off by asking both parties separately what would it take

to stop fighting and hostility? This goes for the whole of the Middle East. What is your wish list?

and then along the lines of " I can't promise anything but let me listen to you and the other side separately

and let me develop a comprehensive list which would be the starting point for real peace discussions "?

Is that so hard to do?

Thanks for your reply Midas BUT as long as Hamas even denies Israels right to exist and they carry on brainwashing their kids into believing the Jews are "sub human" any sort of independent arbitrator to solve this long running problem is totally futile.

Not that it really matters all that much but, Hamas had nothing to do with this attack. See today's JP for details.

So in essence what you are saying is that although there was over 200 rockets fired from Gaza (Which is their territory and responsibility) into Southern Israel with the sole purpose of killing Jews, Hamas are powerless to stop it!, are you really really serious?

The sanctity of Life means nothing to the Muslims, they even use Women and kids as human shields, and when some young kid dons a vest packed with 10kgs of semtex and ball bearings and blows himself and harmless civilians to kingdom come he is proudly shown off by his parents as a martyr to the "cause", faced with this sort of utter lunacy there will never be any sort of lasting peace between Islam and the Jews.

but Colin we have never heard of anyone being put forward as a truly independent mediator ?

because I think one side would always object.

honestly how can the existing mediators be regarded as independent? it is bordering on being a farce.

and then the mediator could start off by asking both parties separately what would it take

to stop fighting and hostility? This goes for the whole of the Middle East. What is your wish list?

and then along the lines of " I can't promise anything but let me listen to you and the other side separately

and let me develop a comprehensive list which would be the starting point for real peace discussions "?

Is that so hard to do?

Thanks for your reply Midas BUT as long as Hamas even denies Israels right to exist and they carry on brainwashing their kids into believing the Jews are "sub human" any sort of independent arbitrator to solve this long running problem is totally futile.

Wrong!

Debt ebbs and flows with Farmers, and that is a fact.

Economically the country thrived under Thaksin, and they were better off than ever.

Then when Mr. Abhisit was hoisted into place, he did introduce a debt repayment scheme...........not focussed on the farmers, but on the money lenders. The rich people in other words.

This CC program is focussed on the farmers, not the lenders and merchants.

This speaks volumes.

Farmers were best off under Thaksin, no doubt, but there are questions hanging over the sustainability of that model, since the gov't was subsidizing the price being paid farmers per ton.

That said, I think it is something the country needs to do for other reasons, such as keeping people interested in the agricultural life so that TH can continue being #1 (jasmine) rice exporter. Too many diversions these days, kids don't want to work long hours in the sun and mud.

As with kids around the world in this generation (past few, too) they want what they want and they don't want to wait for it. And if younger Thais can still have a motorbike, cellphone, wife and mia noi on a farmers income, artificially inflated as that may be, the agricultural ways will stay, unlike the wipeout consolidation of agriculture we had in the 80's in the US.

As regards the CC program, you take an optimistic angle, but just remember the road to hell is paved with good intentions. It is a cultural impulse to exploit here, not least of all the faceless entity of a CC program.

The only reason farmers were better off TEMPORARILY under Thaksin was the booming regional economy, and that for a time could support his crop pledging schemes to lock in his voting segments.

He's politically been dinning off that one time deal ever since. And blaming the Dems for both the before an after scenarios they had no control over, not causing nor being able to do more than make painful repairs successfully. Thaksin with PM Chavalit presided over the collapse of the entire Asian Tiger economy, and blamed the restructuring of his debris left to the Dems on the Dems. When it finally started recovering on the back of the world boom, he took credit for it.

Then the world crashed and the Dems, thanks primarily to Korn, kept Thailand afloat, even as Somchais mis-administration had left the boat to sink in their 4 months of ineptitude. So you can't give Thaksin credit for improving the farmers yields or actual prtices fetched, because he ONLY presided over a dual cyclical upswing and used it for political advantage, and does so to this day. Playing politics with memories, but doing the same old tricks and NOTHING like the old successes.

So now after another series of quick and dirty screw ups by a new 'Thaksin Puppetocracy' they are trying to pump the credit to the farmers they have put in distress, and put them in debt they can't likely get out of, because FUNDAMENTALS of economics can't support this level of debt and repayment.

Who will reap the profits?

The banks, and those influencials who buy the farmers lost land for centimes on the baht.

As usual a T-Team elite, Liegelord T's-Amart, will get the meat as the poor get the table scraps,

and perpetual debt to the warlord bosses.

Ahh Yes "the good old days" of 90 to the pound in 1997 with Chavalit and Thaksin at the helm eh, many hotels in BKK would not take their own money to pay the bill , there was a strong rumour going round at the time that Chavalit and Thaksin made an absolute bomb when the Baht detonated ,which of course I totally ignored knowing how honest and beyond reproach both of them was

The sanctity of Life means nothing to the Muslims, they even use Women and kids as human shields, and when some young kid dons a vest packed with 10kgs of semtex and ball bearings and blows himself and harmless civilians to kingdom come he is proudly shown off by his parents as a martyr to the "cause", faced with this sort of utter lunacy there will never be any sort of lasting peace between Islam and the Jews.

Second class Citizens again....

The name for us on our Immigration visa forms plainly says "ALIEN"

Indebt them all again? Unbelievable.......

How to keep an uneducated majority of voters under control and fear!

As opposed to knee-jerk negativity about a Government program from those who are agenized to do so, I inquired what is the "one" good thing about this particular program.

Obviously a program such as this was not created in a vacuum, and there was some solid rationale, beyond bald politics as this Poster suggests.

Several advantages were mentioned, the primary one being the issue of were credit originates.

For the many farmers who don't have the money in a pre-emptive manner, they buy on credit now, provided by the merchants. Credit that is provided at unfavorable rates and unfavorable terms.

This program releases the Farmer from such arrangements. It gives them farmer-friendly credit access, with heavy emphasis and controls on the CC being used for their singular agriculture defined and intended purpose, as referenced in this article.

Bottom line, this does not affect farmer indebtedness up or down, just its' source.

So you think that this is going to be a success ?, all I can see is more mountains of debt for the Thai farmer, I notice you are not defending another brainwave in "The Govts rice pledging policy has failed" IMHO this insane credit scheme is going to hit the farmers even more.

Step 1 - issue credit cards to anyone they can convince to take one

Step 2 - allow sufficient time to accumulate debt

Step 3 - PR machine into overdrive with suggestion Democrats will withdraw cards, debt repayable immediately

Step 4 - announce election

Nice one Mick!!

I am not sure I have a solution to lack of resources for farmers. I do know I come from a country where many, many people with good educations have lost everything, suffer from the fear of the next phone call from bill collectors and can not pay the interest on their line of credit. It was once a rich and powerful land, and drove much of the world's economic engine. Now, about 37% of the nation's debt is held by China, and current event suggest the house of cards is facing gale force winds.

Yes, I am referring to America. Trust me, education, financial savvy...etc...all go out the window when "free money" comes a calling. It is just human behavior. I am not an expert on Thai culture, but it does seem many "live in the present" and are not be too concerned with what may happen next.

It is hard for me to imagine this will turn out well. I am a bit concerned, since I converted all my dollars to the Baht, or as they will call it in two years... toilet paper.

I would think its a fair assessment to write that 90% of Thailand's wealth comes from the Ethnic Chinese ,ya know these guys who started a business up from scratch and now are multi billionaires who employ tens of thousands of Issan Thai's such as the CP FOODS GROUP, even "good guy" Thaksin" and the current PM are Ethnic Thai Chinese.

Happy New Year to the Isaan farmers

"Forgive them Oh Lord for they know not what they do".

"Whom the gods would destroy ,they first make mad" Euripides , this "brainwave" is going to cause no end of grief to the very people it's intended to help , along with the other "brain wave" the Rice pledging scheme IMHO is a trip into fantasyland ,maybe the better word is "collective insanity" ,the poor uneducated farmers are in for a hard time 6/12 months down the line, I live in a small village 60 kms south of Buriram and my wife assures me there is not an adult who lives here that is not in debt already ,some quite heavily I may add.

Lots of talk about Isreal attacking Iran but it seems to have slipped peoples minds there was a thread not so long ago about the US developing a bigger bomb to target Irans nuclear sites.

So you have a link that specify,s that this new weapon is for the sole purpose of Bombing Iran's Nuclear Installations??

I believe it was in reference to:

http://www.thaivisa....b-against-iran/

Thanks for the link Morch I stand corrected

Lots of talk about Isreal attacking Iran but it seems to have slipped peoples minds there was a thread not so long ago about the US developing a bigger bomb to target Irans nuclear sites.

So you have a link that specify,s that this new weapon is for the sole purpose of Bombing Iran's Nuclear Installations??

Change their supplier to whom? It's not like there's a long queue of countries able and motivated to do this.

I'm pretty sure Israeli statements regarding the amount and quality of armments Iran supplies the Hamas are somewhat exaggerated. I'm also pretty sure Israel does it best to intercept such shipments, more so when when it comes to the "good stuff". Passing weapons to Hamas is trickier than passing it to the Hezbollah, which indeed gets better goodies.

I know it's a little off topic, but Hamas have come out in opposition to Assad, which would put them off Iran's Christmas card list, if you pardon the expression. Still Hamas appear to have been given a refit thanks to the Arab spring with Grad multiple rocket launchers supplied by the Libyan rebels raining down on Israel as well as reports of SA-7 (Russian equivalent of Stinger) anti-aircraft missiles being used.

Hamas has also said quite plain that if the between Iran and Israel that owing to Hamas's total inequality by way of ordinance, Iran should not expect military support from Hamas

I would have thought by now I would have had a few reply's from the Anti US left wing brigade to the simple question in my post#3 ,alas for some to write the truth may cause acute embarrassment ,so apology,s on my behalf for asking the question in the first place

I often wonder, in comparison, who has killed more Civilians, the Taliban by design or the US Drones by accident ?,

Therefore the question is, where do the Grad rockets come from?

The answer is from Iran, but many of the rockets are home made.

They are either from Iran OR they are home made. Israel doesn't get one F16 from the USA and then make their own does it. If I were the boss of Hamas I think I would be changing my supplier.

Steely's comment concerning plausible deniability has merit.

I think there is another angle you are not seeing.

Iran do not expect Hamas to destroy Israel, or even hurt it. The point of these attacks is simply to keep the Israeli reprisals coming. This keeps the region on a war footing, maintains the general hate in the region and prevents any sort of reasonable settlement with the Palestinians.

If Iran were to supply truly effective weapons that caused actual damage it would likely precipitate a war that Iran is not quite ready for. The first truly effective weapon they supply will be a suitcase nuke.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

Yep you have just hit the nail on the Head UG which hither to know one seemed to understand or realize, if Iran supplied Hamas with some real ordinance that could maim and kill in any numbers of Israeli,s military or otherwise ,then the tanks and bulldozers would roll into Gaza exacting a terrible price off Hamas to stop them,this of course is the Israelis right ,and that is to defend their citizens ,just Imagine what would happen if large rockets or bombs hit Tel Aviv killing dozens of Civilians ,the Israelis are not known for inaction when faced with a crisis ,which I agree with 100% ,also the Iranians would be held accountable for their actions too .

Northern Iraq is part of the Kurdish homeland. The area around Mosul was 'Arabized' under Saddam Hussein and many of the Kurds were moved out of the area. The area, however, is still predominantly Kurdish. Religion is not a primary consideration to most of the Kurds. The Issue of autonomy and Kurdish identity is much stronger. Most of the Kurds are Sunni Muslim with a small portion in the area being Shiite. There are also Christian Kurds.

The Kurds have been divided politically between two large factions (which are linguistically different), The KDP and the PUK. The violence could be from a host of reasons, but I would put my money on it being political--either between the Kurdish factions or between Kurds and Arabs. Religiously motivated violence is much less common in that area, but not unheard of.

Hi Scott, I was mainly referring to the latter part of the thread regarding Baghdad and The sectarian bombings resulting in 60 or so deaths and over 200 injuries in a matter of a day or two,Which is still an ongoing problem as the "Analysts " predicted.

Unfortunately It would appear that this sort of tragedy is happening on a regular basis , sectarian violence between the respective two Islamic sects is nothing new and has been going on now for century's ,will there ever be an end to this indiscriminate slaughter?, I doubt it due to complete intransigence from both sides ,If the various Islamic sects cannot live at peace with one another then the idea that one day the Jews and Muslims can live at peace with one another is just a pipe dream ,so sad so sad.

Does anyone out there in their wildest dreams believe he will be nailed for graft?,IMO eventually like so many other similar cases it will be swept under the carpet and forgotten.

It is better to wait and let Iran make the first move and then respond, keep the moral high ground, rather than invite the terrorists responses from Lebanon and Gaza.

Israel cannot be sure they will do the job and without that its a risky strategy. Terror would be exported around the globe, its not worth it.

Terrorist responses from Gaza and the Lebanon? ,Ahh I yes I remember now Iran is funding and arming Hamas and Hezbollah to fight an almost proxy war for them against Israel .

http://ipsnews.net/2...ambit-rebuffed/

This is the message received from your link...

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The resource you are looking for has been removed, had its name changed, or is temporarily unavailable."

Chuckd

Unsure how to help. I just clicked the link and got through. Try removing all the blurb in the url until IPSnews.net is left, then enter "

POLITICS-US: Cheney’s Iran-Arms-to-Taliban Gambit Rebuffed"

in the search box, and see how you get on. It is an interesting article. Let me know if you succeed, if not I will pm you the text.

Colin

Corrupt self serving politicians?I have never heard of a US or British service man being groomed to be a suicide bomber have you?

I don't understand where you are coming from. I gave you a fairly comprehensive reply and you hit me with that? What has corrupt self serving politicians got to do with the training of suicide bombers?

Have you ever been in the military? The reason I ask is that if you had you would understand that a suicide bomber is just another means of delivery. No we do not train British servicemen as suicide bombers as thankfully we have the money and an arms industry to provide them with munitions that can be fired from afar and hit their target. Rag tag armies don't have that luxury so have to be 'inventive' with how they get explosives to the target. The suicide bomber is an unpalatable thing, as they were in WW2 with the Japanese, when the Japs knew that a determined young man on a suicide mission not only was difficult to stop but struck a real chord of fear in their enemies in terms of Psychological warfare. The fact is that whether a hellfire missile hits you fired from 8km away or a suicide bomber gets you in a car from 50 mtrs away, the result is the same, death and devastation. One way costs 20K $ fired from a 20 Mill $ platform, the other costs 1k $ and a period of training and indoctrination.

The suicide bomber is considered cowardly and 'not cricket', is a missile fired from 8km away any different? Get over the suicide bomber thing, war is dirty and the enemy will always be resourceful when they have run out of money. The question you raised was about the provision of roadside bombs from Iran to the taliban, you said there was lots of evidence for it. The thing is there is not lots of evidence and I have given you a Government quote that also disputes what you say. But you haven't answered that, you now come up with a completely different and irrelevant tack. The questions here are

1. These poor men were hit with a devastating weapon that at the moment bears all the hallmarks of involving Explosively Formed Penetrators (EFP's).

2. How did the Taliban get to lay this thing

3. Where did they get it from

4 How many do they have.

As regards evidence, we have solid proof that they still use a large number of weapons and munitions provided to them by the US and that recently, In 2007 NATO commanders in Pakistan, stated they have long been aware that the Taliban has been dependent on Pakistan for its arms and ammunition. The Telegraph reported that a NATO report on a battle showed the Taliban fired an estimated 400,000 rounds of ammunition, 2,000 rocket-propelled grenades and 1,000 mortar shells and had stocked over one million rounds of ammunition, all of which came from Quetta, Pakistan during the spring months. Now if you were to put money on it, where do you think arms are coming from, Iran or Pakistan?

You Write of "shed loads" of self seeking and corrupt politicians on Capitol hill and Westminster capitalizing on the death of young servicemen , who are responsible for their deaths , this is just your opinion, and just a little "over the top", I countered by mentioning Taliban suicide bombers which is an Irrifutable fact.

Sure GJ why not, an absolute welter of data on Google too many for me to post all the links, just type in "Iran supplying sophisticated roadside bombs to the Taliban" good reading.

Well the issue is Colin that those reports are from 2007/2008 and the IPS ran the following article, which is worth a read.

http://ipsnews.net/2...ambit-rebuffed/

A media campaign portraying Iran as supplying arms to the Taliban guerrillas fighting U.S. and NATO forces in Afghanistan, orchestrated by advocates of a more confrontational stance toward Iran in the George W. Bush administration, appears to have backfired last week when Defence Secretary Robert Gates and the commander of NATO forces in Afghanistan, Gen. Dan McNeil, issued unusually strong denials.

What the Defence Secretary and the General eluded to was that a report saying that NATO forces had caught Iranians red handed was taken out of context. The US only ever found 4 small vehicles with arms originating from Iran and they were considered a smuggling operation to drug lords in Afghanistan and nothing to do with the Iranian Government, and those facts were clear in the original report.

The responsibility with finding 'good reading' as you put it, is to find out as much as possible and not stop at the story that suits. In any case, the international arms business is a dirty dirty business, and if one country will not sell arms, then another will quickly step in. If I were to list the terrorist organisations that have been provided with arms by the US I could take up a whole page on TV, let alone them recently providing weapons to the very drug lords in Mexico they are supposed to be trying to defeat. Is is a case of keep the US population stoned then come the day they will be easier to handle?

Avoidance of war means that all information must be taken with a pinch of salt, particularly when it is from a Government driven by the Worlds largest Military Industrial Complex. It means we have a responsibility to give all sides the benefit of doubt until conclusive independent evidence points towards a set of established occurrences.

The reaction of the British Army members themselves to this dreadful incident is telling. On the Army Rumour Network Site one soldier has put in capitals "those f*ing cowardly Taliban B**tards", he was then rounded on by all the other soldiers saying 'calm down' what do you expect the Taliban to do to their enemy, throw confetti on us', another comment by a Soldier says 'how many times have we lay in wait to ambush the Taliban and hit them with all we have got' !.

The soldiers are fully aware that this is a part of war and whilst the soldiers are diligently doing their jobs, they also know that the Taliban are doing the same. The British soldiers have a great deal of respect for the skill of their enemies and they do not underestimate them. These 6 soldiers and the other 398 before them (and that is just British!!) have died because corrupt self serving politicians have put them in harms way to satisfy the shareholders of the companies that form the Military Industrial Complex, there bye resulting in a good chance of another term in office for a respective administration or Government. It does not strike me that there are any cowards in either the British Army or the Taliban, but I think there are shed loads in Capitol Hill and Westminster, who now try and claim an extra political advantage by capitalising on the deaths of these young men, that they themselves are responsible for killing.

Corrupt self serving politicians?I have never heard of a US or British service man being groomed to be a suicide bomber have you?

What a waste! 6 young men losing their lives , the ordinance used to blow an armoured vehicle ( tank?)and its occupants to oblivion must have had immense power plus penetration , There is much evidence in the public domain that says Iran is supplying the Taliban with sophisticated Roadside bombs to achieve this very end.

What evidence, can you provide links please.

Condolences to the families.

Sure GJ why not, an absolute welter of data on Google too many for me to post all the links, just type in "Iran supplying sophisticated roadside bombs to the Taliban" good reading.