oldcpu

Thats wrong. I am surprised you typed that. Foreign remitted income (covered by DTAs) has always been potentially subject to taxation if remitted in the year of earning, long before por.161/162. Yet there has never been a place to include remitted foreign income (not taxable due to a DTA) as an exemption on a Thai tax form. This all pre-dates 1-Jan-2024. I recommend you take a step back and think a bit more about you incorrectly typed.

Royal decrees? using words 'exempt' - nope - you ignore such DTA as referenced by Royal decree? nope - you ignore such

I don't know why you use that as a reference. It fails to support your view in the detailed "assessability" aspect we are discussion. As Mr.Hart states, it depends on the underlying fundamentals. I fully agree with that. I am beginning to think you do not. I pointed out the fundamentals to you re: Tax Code, Royal Decree-18 (and appropriate DTA words), and Royal Decree-743. Are you just picking out videos of the thin air hoping it supports your untenable position? Because that what it looks like. Further I pointed out to you in the latest video where the RD representative stated in Thai language that there are exemptions to assessable income (where that very important tidbit was NOT translated by the translator). You need to do better if you wish to point to videos that do not support what i noted. Instead those videos support what I posted. When you resort to such statements ? It means you lost the argument. OK? Yes - in that tax section it notes 'exempt income' is 'exempt for taxation calculation purposes'. OK? Important words. Exemption is not limited to those 29-types. Do you disagree with Royal Decrees? Do you disagree with Ministerial instructions? If you disagree with those documents, then you should take such up with the Thai Revenue department. Have you forgotten ?? - < sigh > once again, the references I have been posting to you, over and over, are: Royal Decree-18 (labeling non-taxable income as Exempt despite your ignoring such), and relevant sections in some DTAs (those that note income source country can exclusively (or only) tax a pension , and Royal Decree-743 (labeling selected LTR visa holders income as tax exempt), and 2017 to 2024 Thai tax forms - I pointed out tax forms (both English language and Thai language) going back to year 2017 (I did not know where to find those prior to year 2017 to check) have no place for exempt DTA income to be listed as an exemption. OK ? Why do you think? Well I will tell you. Because if exempt in the noted above cases, it is not to be considered as assessable. And if it is not to be considered assessable it doesn't belong in the calculation for whether a tax return is required. Well - as I stated before... best wishes to you in placing your not-assessable income on a 2024 tax submission (using perhaps a 2023 form if 2024 not available), where there will be no place to deduct such income in an exemption section. I think many of us are curious as to how that will work out for you. i do urge others thou, do not follow Cyclists approach. If his paranoia has you worried, then I provided above in an earlier approach a suggestion to go to your local Thai RD, bring Thai language copies of your relevant DTA (with relevant income section highlighted) and bring copy (Thal language) of Royal Decree-18. There are 61 different DTAs with Thailand. Don't force your local RD to dig though them while you have no clue as to what they are looking at (unless you are a fluent Thai speaker/reader). Rather go prepared with relevant section highlighted in advance. Good luck in your efforts.

Because I am afraid others, who do not have the time to research this, and who share his paranoia, will blindly follow them, and it could cost them both time and money. That would be a shame. I think he honestly believes his approach - despite being show where its not valid.

I never stated it did not. You do understand that you are inaccurate. right? The Royal Decree-18 states that if such is not taxable it is exempt. How many times must I post that (Royal Decree-18 noting non-taxable income in a DTA is tax exempt) for you understand. Exempt. Exempt. Exempt. OK? Exempt. And then as i pointed out, the RD official noted there is exempt income associated with defining assessable income. You remember that. Right? I even pointed the precise spot in the video for you. Did you not check that out? I agree a DTA (dependent on income and DTA wording) may exempt a Thai resident from paying tax on those income sources, but i don't agree with your interpretation to include such as assessable income (when I have shown its not to be included as assessable income, ... shown in practice going back years in terms of how Thailand RD implements this, and also shown by providing you the appropriate references why). It does exempt one if such means exempt from the Thai tax calculation, which means not to go in the tax tax return form. now ... Don't get me wrong. I hope this works out for you, despite my believing your approach/interpetation is wrong. It may cost you money. And if others follow your approach it may cost them money. Where legally they should not be paying any money. That is your choice and their choice. I am most curious to learn how you manage to list your non-assessable income (due to Royal Decree/DTA) as being exempt in a Thailand tax form , where you insist you need to file such a tax form, despite there being no place to list the income as exempt. I remind you again, DTAs and Royal Decree-18 have been around for a very very long time. ok? A long time. Where there has always been a requirement in Thailand to file income tax returns if money (pensions) remitted into Thailand in the year such earned. Ok ? And despite that, with many years of tax return forms, there has never been a place to list DTA/Royal-Decree exempt income as being exempt. Lets all hope that your wish that the 2024 tax form in English language (unlike the Thai language 2024 tax form) has a field to list as an exemption your income. I, for one, would not bet on that.

Canada asked for such from me in a couple of trading accounts. And years back when opening accounts in Canada I had to provide such (and sign some forms).

i thought of that. But the problem i see is if one's income is exempt Thai tax income (per DTAs and Royal Decree-18) where can one list the declared exempt income in an exemption list? There is no place for such. Believe me. I looked. [The reply was for Cyclist who appears determined to list his exempt income (exempt per the DTA) in a Thai tax return form).

They not only want that, they want you to sign a very specific form with that information. Don't forget - banks have a massive bureaucracy behind them , and bureaucracies love paperwork.

That's why i put a 'question mark' at the end of that sentence as I was not certain. I had though you stated somewhere por.161/162 covered your 2024 income, but likely I have you confused with someone else. Regardless, if you take the time to check, you will discover there is not always a lot of difference between Thai language Thai tax return forms and English language Thai tax return forms. The Thai language year 2024 tax return forms have been out for a long time. If you do still believe you meet the assessable remitted income requirement needing you to file a Thai tax return for the 2024 tax year, you may wish to start giving some thought now as to what you will do if it ends up being only a handful of days away before the tax return submission due date, with no English language year 2024 Thai tax forms. I hope for those in your situation it does not come down to that, but it might, so its best to have a backup plan. As I posted previous, if it were me, if no English language Thai tax return, in the few days prior to the tax return submission due date, and IF I had remitted assessable income to Thailand, I would show up at the local Thai RD office, with (in addition to passport, residence information ... ) : * all one's pertinent financial records showing remitted income * proof (best possible) showing source of the remitted income * copy (in Thai !! language ) of Double Tax Agreement with source country of one's income - WITH the relevant section HIGHLIGHTED that states one's 'civil service or military' pension can only be taxed in the source country (which is NOT Thailand), * copy (in Thai !! language ) of por.161.162 in case of any remitted any pre-1-Jan-2024 savings (together with all relevant bank statements as of 31-Dec-2023 proving the money was credibly savings from before 1-Jan-2024) * copy (in Thai i!! language ) of Royal Decree-18 (to prove income not to be taxed by Thailand in a DTA is considered exempt income). In your case, given the English language 2024 Thai tax return form is likely to be similar to the English language 2017 to 2023 tax return forms, or like the CURRENT Thai language 2024 Thai tax return form (with no location for the DTA exempt income to be listed as exempt), I suspect the RD officials will either (1) conclude you not owe any tax and that they will tell you a tax return is not needed, or (2) put in your exempt income in the tax form, not deduct the income and try to double tax you on it, much to your chagrin and annoyance, or (3) pull their hair out at there being no place to place your exempt (via DTA) remitted foreign income as being exempt, and thus phone Bangkok begging for help, or (4) place the exempt income deduction in the wrong place of the tax return, claim you owe no money and then a few months later call you back on the phone and note your income tax return (that they helped fill out) failed a quality check, and you need to come into their office to sort the mess they created with you (else you may owe money). Good luck.

lol ... Thats a joke, right? I think think Banks are required to report certain deposit amounts to the Thai Revenue Department. The RD can then decide if they wish to do something. Its best everyone follow Thai tax law. If the RD is suspicious (based on Thai bank information they are provided), they can call an audit, ask about tax returns if any or if none, .. and compare the information they have received from Thai banks, with the records the foreigner can produce. Its not rocket science, and it may not be perfect, but having an audit could be a major PIA. Its best IMHO to follow Thai tax law.

I believe there are CRS requirements that banks (Financial Institutions) have to provide ID information on their clients to CRS. I may have details slightly incorrect , but I think this includes tax-ID and passport information. And at some < I don't know exactly > intervals provide limited information on bank account sum amount to CRS on same individuals to CRS. However NOT ALL bank accounts need information be provided - for example an individual's government regulated account information need not be provided to CRS (which for Canadian's means registered retirement funds such as RRSPs, RRIFS, ... plus some other Canadian registered (with government) savings funds). There is some sort of account reporting exemption for Thais also. This is ultimately to detect tax evasion, but such information in itself probably does not help all that much. Only if put together with other countries information might CRS start to get a picture. There is massive exaggeration by some on this forum, claiming CRS over reach which doesn't exist. But I believe you know that. If one is legal there is no worry here.

I suspect that was for different reasons.

Only if one dislikes the paperwork from a Thai tax return, or if one has income from a foreign source with no DTA with Thailand.

I recall currently por.161/162 exempt remitted foreign income ( and hence not assessable) means you have inadequate assessable income for a while in regards to tax filing?. At present I see no place in any Thai tax return to file as a deduction that exempt income ( such as your pension which you claim not taxable per DTA). This is not new. The requirements to file have been around for years. I am curious where such a deduction should be in the tax forms. I spent ( wasted?) some time looking.

Based on your original description of the occurrence it appears the person made a mistake, changed things, but tried not to lose face so it's possible in the view of some is that said individual was still wrong.

Why are you quoting me? I have aways believed tax should be paid where required to be paid.

I recommend people tell the truth. If one is required to file a tax return, then file it. But don't go file a tax return when not needed, because one was bamboozled by a paranoid poster who ignores RoyalDecrees, ignores Ministerial Directives, and ignores DTAs. Those documents too need to be considered. But if one is lazy to read such, then go to one's local RD office, with all one's financial info, with a copy of the relevant Royal Decree, the relevant DTA ( highlighting relevant section governing one's foreign income) and let them decide. Note there are 61 different DTAs, so don't just show up without the DTA and expect the RD official to know the answers off of the top of their head.

Yep. And those are not the only ones.

True IMHO. However there is more to this than just the monetary amount. The foreign income remitted must also be assessable income, where in addition to the Thai tax code, there are also Royal Decrees, DTAs. and Ministerial directives that affect the determination of assessable income. Thailand relies on self assessment. RD officials have stated that many times. .. That is not to say one won't be audited if the RD suspects one is not reporting all assessable income properly . Thailand has been doing just that for over 50 years. So do you believe that this will stop now? I guess we will see. Note: I believe that Thailand law should be followed in regards to income tax filing. The discussions some of us tend to be having is along the lines of precisely defining that assessable income given there is foreign remitted income that is exempt from Thailand taxation calculation.

It's easy to miss. It was stated in Thai language and not translated.

Assessable remitted income. That is important. Not all foreign remitted income is assessable.

And the RD official noted there were exemptions in defining foreign assessable income. Nailed that there are exemptions affecting assessable income.

The Thai government relies on self assessment. There is no requirement at present for a tax certificate for immigration for extension of stay in Thailand purposes. OK? Clear? Whether there will be in the future is speculation at this stage. What we do know now is Thai tax law, Royal Decrees, Ministerial directives, and Double Tax Agreements betweenThailand and 61 countries ( where every DTA is different) .. and for those wondering about immigration there are also current immigration requirements. Current requirements. Current. ... Not speculative future requirements of AseanNow posters. Current requirements. One should follow Thailand law in regards to tax, and that may or may not mean a Thai tax return is needed depending on each person's financial situation.

I totally agree with your statement. I think the thai tax law is based on the honest system. There will be farang who abide by the law and some that dont I think it important all of this (in the original quote above) is completely hypothetical, conjecture and speculation. I do believe all expats need to assess their own situation, and in accordance with Thai law, assess if they need to obtain a TIN and file a Thai tax return. .... Unfortunately there are some (paranoid ? ) scaremongers who are exaggerating the situation, making it complicated for those who don't spend the time studying this, to understand what their own tax reporting requirements are. And it does not help that Double Tax Agreements (DTAs) are not the easiest documents to read. .

- No one is lying. One important part of that video is at around 15:13 to 15;22 in the video (in Thai language), the Thai RD official very quickly (almost in passing) notes in considering assessable income, one needs to also consider if there is an exemption. This was not translated to English language by the translator (it was likely forgotten to be stated given a lot of other words needed to be translated at that moment). Why would the RD official feel the need to state that an exempted income (ie an exemption) needs to be considered in the context of determining assessable income ? If exempt income (ie an exemption) was part of assessable income there would be no need to state such. Clearly then, if income is exempt, it is not part of assessable income. I ONLY discovered that by having Google translate on while watching the video. I would be interested in a native Thai speakers translation of those words. In most locations in that video, when referring to the need to get a Thai Tax ID Number (TIN) and file a Thai tax return, the term assessable income was used. That is very important - for if the income is not assessable, then there is no need to include such income (that is not assessable) in the decision whether a Thai TIN or a Th tax return is needed. This totally supports what is in the Thai Tax code (re: exempt income means not to be included in a tax calculation), re: Royal Decree-18 (calling up DTAs), re: Royal Decree-743 (for selected LTR visa categories), and re: por.161/162 where those documents refer to exempt income. It is also consistent with the Thai RD not including any field in ANY tax return to list as a deduction exempt Income. It is good to have that clarified in that video - even thou one is forced to look at the Thai words from the RD official (which the translator missed to translate).