Pib

You need to meet "all", not just one, of the income requirements as shown in the BoI LTR snapshot in BritTom's post above. I expect a fair amount of people could meet the 1 million in assets requirements if they were lucky enough to own some real estate that they inherited or bought, have some BIG savings like retirement savings/stocks/bonds, etc. Heck, I have family/friends back in the U.S. who are millionaires on paper from real estate they bought/inherited many years ago (but have no plans/desire to sell), but who live on modest pensions/savings. But the Wealthy Global Citizen visa also requires at least $80K income per year. Heck, a person could be assets rich on paper like owing some real estate worth at least a $1M somewhere worldwide but not having a lot of annual income. And they also need to show at least $500K investment "in" Thailand like real estate, direct investment, or Thai govt bonds. I expect if a person bought Thai real estate (even if bought years ago but still owned) worth at least $1M at time of purchase that would kill two birds with one stone by meeting the $1M in assets requirement and the $500K investment in Thailand requirement. But after killing those two birds the $80K in annual income bird still has to be killed.

The number of people who have applied 1 Sep 2022 - 18 Apr 2023 is on the BoI LTR website....one of those sliding charts on the side of the computer screen. I asked BoI if the chart reflected "total" applications or only those "approved" applications; BoI answered it was "total" applications. But I would expect (just my guess) it's only those applications that pass an initial sanity check (i.e., complete or mostly complete applications vs applications missing various required proof/documents or don't even come close to meeting requirements). Basically where the top of the chart says "Qualifications Endorsement Applies".....that means the total number of LTR Visa applications without indicating how many were approved. Also, keep in mind that BoI and relevant application reviewing agencies only "endorse" an application; it's not finally, finally approved until you pay the Bt50K issue fee via going to BoI Immigration in Bangkok or via the e-visa system if currently residing outside of Thailand. Snapshot from BoI LTR website as of 17 June 2023

And for those who don't receive a form over the coming month or so and just can't wait to send in a form the Manila SSA website currently has a blank 7162 for download and completion. I've also attached it below....downloaded from Manila SSA Office 17 Jun 2023. https://ph.usembassy.gov/services/social-security/ HOWEVER, BUT, I would "not" complete this form until you've waited at least another couple months because SSA does a 1st mailing which is going out now and then a 2nd mailing in the September time if they didn't get your response to the 1st mailing. And Manila will not even deal with any missing 7162 until 1 Nov of each year which is after a person should have received a 7162 via the 1st or 2nd mailing. The SSA really wants the "bar-coded/partially completed" 7162 returned that they mail-out. Blank SSA-7162.pdf

Yeap.....after I asked about the date I checked my mailbox (I live in Bangkok also) and I received my 7162 today/Saturday/17 June. But the wife did not receive hers....hopefully hers will arrive over the coming days....but last year hers arrived the same day as mine. And from looking at last year's 7162 both mine and the wife's 7162 was generated on 27 Jun and we received both on 8 July. This year, SSA seems to be back on their normal schedule of generating 7162s in late May/early June.

At the top of the form what date did it show as being generated/printed? Assuming a 10-14 days mailing time from U.S. to Bangkok that date should be in the late May/very early June timeframe but it could have been much earlier if the SSA didn't promptly mail them.

It would be best to ask BoI via their Contact form or email address, but I expect translation via certified sworn translator is acceptable "if that is what is used in your country." BoI has been answering inquiries pretty fast (within hours to a few days). Be sure to identify your country and how they use certified sworn translators in your inquiry. I expect BoI has dealt with applications from "many" countries and know what type of translations are available in each country. https://ltr.boi.go.th/ Now in BritTim's response that's the procedure for getting a document "legalized" which is typically used for those folks wanting to register a marriage with the Thai govt were the marriage was accomplished outside of Thailand.

Last year's (2022) thread on same subject showed some people began receiving them o/a 8 July.

Yeap....back around 2019 I switched from an annual Retirement extension on my old underlying Non OA visa to doing a Marriage extension on that same underlying Non OA in order to avoid the medical insurance requirement.. I'm married to a Thai with marriage registered in Thailand. Never had to leave the country....did this at CW/Bangkok immigration...and did a couple more annual marriage extensions before I switched to anther kind of visa. Yeap...can do....just need to be married to a Thai and have that marriage registered in Thailand in order to do a marriage extension. As mentioned by others there is some additional paperwork each annual marriage extension in comparison to a retirement extension....basically a copy of your original marriage certificate, a fresh Kor Ror 2 marriage doc (or Kor Ror 22 if married outside Thailand) from your local district office that certifies you are "still" married (only takes minutes to get and is free or a few baht), photos of you and the spouse around/in your residence, and Bt400K in the bank for at least 2 months before applying. When applying there will be an approx 30 day under consideration period before getting the final annual stamp.. And it's best not to let your bank balance drop below Bt400K until you get the final stamp....then you can take the balance to zero if desired up until 2 months before the next annual marriage extension application.

Probably private practice in something like a cosmetic skin care clinic.

A person does "not" need to bring the bulk of their assets to Thailand. To meet the income requirements for an LTR Pensioner visa 100% of your assets like financial/bank accts can remain in any country like a person's home country....not one penny needs to be in Thailand "unless" your annual pension/fixed income is below $80K. If below $80K but at least $40K then a $250K investment in Thailand consisting of govt bonds, foreign direct investment, or property is required. Do most financially secure retirees who want to retire in Thailand receive at least $80K/year in pensions/fixed income which does not require a $250K investment in Thailand? Probably not although they may also have BIG savings but just not drawing too much on those savings to generate the kind of pension/fixed income required for an LTR Pensioner visa. Do most financially secure retirees who want to retire to Thailand receive $40K-$80K/year in pensions/fixed income? Well, I expect there are many. But is this group also willing to make a $250K investment in Thai govt bonds, direct investment, or property? For sure some, but I expect most will not unless they plan to buy (or have already) a $250K (approx Bt8.5M) residence regardless of the type of visa they could apply for....and a nice residence/condo can easily cost $250K or more in Thailand. No argument from me that LTR visas are definitely for a niche group of people. I do think that the Thai govt greatly over estimated the size of the group which can meet current LTR requirements. Do I think the govt will make major changes in the LTR requirements like maybe lowering income/investment requirements? Nope I don't because that would imply the requirements were set too high to begin with (a misjudgment) and/or imply maybe Thailand is losing retirement location desirability. Plus, has the Thai govt ever reduced requirements on any type of visa....not to my knowledge....but the govt has definitely increased requirements for some visas like for medical coverage and also come out with other high requirements visas like the OX visa that had very few takers. Keeping my fingers crossed the LTR visa program does achieve long term success....time will tell.

Not simplistic for a top level cost analysis IMO. For someone who has retired to Thailand, already owns their residence (or plans to buy), and has other investments in Thailand and other countries it pretty much boils down to the visa "upfront/fee" cost being the major cost deciding factor. Like oldcpu who initially tried to use a foreign investment/equity account to self-insure but since that investment account is really a bunch of stocks/mutual funds affected by stock market up "and downs" it could not be accepted by BoI. In the initial months of the LTR program BoI did accept some investment accts but no more. Instead, it must be a cash/bank type account like a savings/current/money market type acct or even a Foreign Currency Deposit (FCD) acct not affected by stock market up and downs....and that FCD is what oldcpu used since he's had it for years. Oldcpu didn't have to move any money around between foreign and Thai accts; he just needed to find the right one to satisfy BoI. These self insure accounts can be in "any" country; not required to be Thailand accts. And these foreign or Thailand accts can be used to meet the overall annual income requirement. It's just when a person's pension/fixed income falls between the $40K-$80K USD that an additional investment of $250K in Thai govt bonds, investments, or property is required. And if they already happen to own a Thai residence that cost at least $250K then that satisfies the $250K investment requirement when a person pension/fixed income is below Bt80K/year. No investment required when pension/fixed income is at least $80K Oldcpu has that Bt900K upfront fee savings to invest anywhere in the world.

Getting an Elite visa is indeed easy.....folk-out a lot of money and pass the Thai police check and a person will get an Elite visa But for me choosing between Bt1M for a 20 year Elite visa OR assuming the LTR visa program continues for many years 2 times Bt50K (i.e., fee for two LTR visas covering 20 years) for a total of Bt100K I would go the LTR route and smile in the Bt900K savings which will grow a lot of interest and/or buy some very nice things over 20 years.

@oldcpu Thanks and congrats.....awesome details of your LTR trek. And such details can really help potential applicants understand and possibly how to avoid potential potholes, detours, etc., along the way if they take the trek. It pretty all comes down to good documentation to prove a person meets LTR requirements and how sometimes getting the required documentation takes some real effort. Congrats again!!!!

Sure...you can DM me, but don't get mad if I just respond by a quote from the BoI LTR website as over the last several months the info posted on the website clears up quite a few issues/questions people use to have about applying for an LTR visa. Documents on the LTR website like the Required Documents Checklist provide very good info/clarification when added to the other info on the website. Just review all the LTR website pulldown menus. Since you bought a Thai condo for Bt10M (approx $290K USD) and if you are applying for a Wealthy Pensioner LTR visa then to qualify income-wise you will need at least $40K in pension/fixed type income like the pension and real estate income you mentioned above....your past condo investment should satisfy the at least $250K investment in Thailand when not making at least $80K in pension/fixed income per year. If making $80K in pension/fixed income no investment is needed. Remember, this income can be worldwide....not a baht needs to be income from Thailand...can be income from/kept in any country. Assuming the condo is only in your name and assuming you can meet the medical coverage requirement, sounds like you would be a shoe-in for an LTR visa. I would recommend you submit all required docs with the initial application with the possible exception of the medical coverage proof as the BoI LTR doc submission checklist does say the medical coverage document can be submitted later on since if using a medical policy vs self-insuring you may need to work with your insurance company to ensure you have at least 10 months left on the policy from date of LTR application. But the application will not receive final approval until all required docs are provided. And don't worry, if you do not submit some required doc or BoI decides they want a certain doc from you in your particular case they will send you an Additional Document Request via your LTR online acct/email.....your application is not rejected/disapproved. Now your application will then go into a hold status for X-amount of time until you provide the requested doc(s) and may have to go back a few steps in the application review process which could add weeks/months to the application review process...but it seems applications now days are being processed a lot faster that when the LTR program kicked off in later 2022. Seems if you get an Additional Doc request now days and then promptly provide it that it only sets you application back a few days to a week.....although BoI does say it could set your application back 20 "working/business days." Good luck.

All the recent events/news where certain certain nationalities (i.e., mainly Chinese) has been involved with corrupt immigration officials in the issue of visas/extensions (and even Thai citizenship) may be a factor in more scrutiny on a random selected case-by-case basis of certain visa/extension applicants of all nationalities. Please note, I'm not implying anything about you. Your situation is probably a simple case of your immigration office randomly selecting a small percentage of applicants for a police check....and you were just selected by chance. And maybe your immigration record/past extensions looks so rock-solid & clean that the immigration office just knows your police check will come back clean and that's why they selected you.....gives the office better stats vs picking some applicant which the immigration office feels a police check might reveal a not-so-clean police record within Thailand.

Even folks applying for a LTR visa might be requested to provide a police clearance from their home country OR Thai police. If requesting a Thai police clearance fingerprints will be taken. Below from the LTR Required Documents Checklist. I haven't read in social media type posts where any LTR applicant was requested to provide a police clearance....but such a request is possible on a case-by-case basis.

Probably just a random criminal background check done on a case-by-case basis associated with marriage to a Thai. Did some googling and found a Phuket News Feb 2018 article where apparently in late 2017 the Department of Provincial Administration (DOPA) head office in Bangkok issued a regulation change relating to the request for marriage of foreigner to Thai and also marriage visas/extensions. See below article for more details....the article even talked about it being focused toward 13 unnamed nationalities at the time. Yea, probably just a random background check...a case-by-case thing; not applicable to everyone for every marriage extension. https://www.thephuketnews.com/it-a-crime-foreigners-marrying-thais-now-subject-to-fingerprints-taken-for-criminal-background-66094.php

Your are right that the level of detail you are looking in your particular case is not addressed in the BoI LTR website briefings/documentation/etc.,....only talked about briefly by the BoI rep in that YouTube video. Your case would probably fall in the area of "flexibility" that the BoI may offer on a "case-by-case" basis. I expect the details of flexibility that BoI sometimes provides is for internal office use, varies from application to application, and subject to change. But I don't remember reading any crossfeed on social media platforms from a LTR applicant who based the "great majority" (i.e.., way over half) of their annual income on a retirement investment "which the person has not started drawing from yet." To me the way you describe your situation this is the situation you are talking about. In the video Jane's situation she was already drawing the majority of the $80K annual requirement but had a big retirement investment she had not started drawing on yet. Instead of just being well-off on paper (i.e., having a big untouched investment) she was already drawing a healthy annual amount from other income sources and also had that big retirement investment to increase her annual income in the outyears. As Pink Mist recommended you should contact BoI and see what they say. Call or use the online Contact form....detail your income situation as much as possible.....hopefully you'll get an answer back in a few business days to a week. Good luck.

Many wealthy pensioners are already here....a good amount switched from Non-O 1 year type visas to the 10 year LTR visa ( really a 5+5 visa). If lucky enough to have the required pension/retirement investment accts a LTR visa is a good way to go....no annual worry over renewing your visa/extension.

All I can say is BoI generally wants to see a tax return/tax documents "to help support/validate" the primary income evidence docs you provide. The primary evidence docs will be docs that the "paying entity" makes available to you like say a periodic statement, annual tax related doc, etc. Tax systems and laws vary from country to country....in some countries like the U.S. a person's worldwide income is taxed (but there are foreign income exemptions) and if you don't make a certain amount (usually down around $20K/year) you don't even have to file a tax return but that also means you don't make enough to apply for a LTR visa.......while other countries will only tax income from the country you have designated as your domicile and not tax any foreign income.........and some countries the govt may automatically generate a tax return for a person........or the person may need to submit a self-assessment tax return. So many possibilities as to if a person has to submit an annual tax return (or his home country govt is doing it for him and he can obtain a copy of it), what income is tax reportable, etc....etc....etc. The March 2023 BoI LTR Required Docs checklist now list two years of tax returns as some of the mandatory docs because "most" people will have submitted a tax return OR can get a tax transcript from their country of tax domicile. If a person does not need to submit a tax return each year he'll have to explain to BoI why in his case no tax return was required....like providing a snapshot/quote from his home country tax laws/instructions....just something that will satisfy you can not provide a tax document....can only provide income evidence that come direct from income paying entity. BoI is no dumbie when it come to tax documents for different countries because the BoI deals everyday with foreigners wanting to do business in Thailand, qualify for a certain type of BoI visa, etc. In the LTR mega thread there is a pretty good Youtube video which involves an interview with a key BoI LTR representative....it talks about income evidence, tax returns, etc.....see Youtube link and snapshots below. Also below is snapshot where the BoI says providing in income tax return(s) is mandatory (the little O in the right column means it's a mandatory doc); however, if you cannot provide a tax return because maybe you were not required to submit a return per your tax domicile country then BoI would probably say, "OK, I believe you but I would like doc so-in-so to validate your income." BoI is flexible when it comes to income evidence and tax returns since such documents & requirements vary greatly between countries. Snapshot of BoI LTR Required Docs YouTube Weblink. Interview with a key BoI LTR representative. See the area where they talk income evidence and tax return. Basically, if you can not provide an income tax return you will be asked for more income evidence. Still a pretty accurate LTR video with two exceptions where it says buying govt bonds is a snap/easy (for a Thai yes, but not so much for a foreigner) and LTR holders hopefully being allowed to own land which later got squashed/rescinded by the Thai govt). Definitely Contact BoI about your question(s)....use the Contact link on the BoI LTR website. Based on my personal experience where I have sent some curiosity questions their way they have responded within a few hours to a few business days.....much, much faster than when the LTR program kicked off in late 2022 and it was not uncommon for the BoI to takes weeks to respond (and maybe not even respond).

It "will" qualify. I think you are under the misconception the income/pension/dividends/fixed income needs to be earned in Thailand and/or taxed in Thailand-----no! The income proof you provide can come from any country (ies), any source....BoI just needs to see income evidence you are making X-amount somewhere on planet Earth. Heck, you may not even being living in Thailand yet, but just planning to retire to Thailand under an LTR Pensioner visa. And the BoI is looking at "gross income" before any deductions like taxes, etc. And whether your income/dividends/etc., is taxed where ever you file income taxes those dividends would be shown directly or indirectly on the tax return. Or if your particular home country tax return does not show non-taxable income then the other income evidence you will provide like an annuity/bank statement, etc., will be your core income evidence. The tax return is really only another way to help prove income, prove "type" of income, and maybe just to show BoI you are a tax filing/paying citizen in good standing from country XYZ.

The two links/snapshots are from various areas of the BoI LTR website....some areas just offer a "broad/high level" overview (like the 2nd link) and others more/full details/fine print (like the 1st PDF link). So be sure to looks at the various areas of the BoI LTR website like the BoI LTR Laws & Regulation area, the Required Documents area, and the summary/broad overview areas to see the whole LTR picture. But the Required Docs is going to give the most detail. For a Wealthy Pensioner application although the most recent Required Docs checklist ask for the past two years of income tax returns I think the BoI really only needs 1 year's worth....although other LTR types like say Wealthy Global Citizen may require 2 year's worth...and they are now looking for more than just the core tax returns but also some of the unique tax docs that supplement a tax return like those docs which report pensions/dividends. One would need to prove pension/fixed income payments with the associated docs. Like for a U.S. person if they are receiving a social security/military retirement pension they have monthly annuity statements which can usually be downloaded at anytime from their pension paying entity "and" also annual IRS forms like 1099R, 1099DIV, 1099INT to additionally prove the pension/fixed income. For U.S. folks Cap Gains like from the sale of stocks/mutual funds is usually reported on a 1099B IRS form....like a person who is frequent stock trader...this is not fixed income. Now when the person receives annual/semi annual distributions of dividends/cap again that is usually reported on a 1099DIV Dividends form....that is fixed, reoccurring income. Now for people who do not receive sufficient annual pension/fixed income like from a pension, 401K, IRA, etc., but do have BIG investments as addressed in the LTR mega thread "supposedly" BoI LTR will look at your reoccurring pension/fixed income distributions and then see if any shortfall can be made-up by dividing a big investment/savings acct you may have by 10 (for 10 years length of LTR visa) to cover the shortfall in pension/fixed income. But what the BoI is really looking for is pension/fixed income for a Wealthy Pensioner. Like say you were getting $50K per year from a pension/IRA/401K....that leaves you $30K short of the $80K/year requirements....but if a you identify a BIG savings/investment of say $300K that could supplement your pensions/fixed income, well, $300K divided by 10 equals $30K per year added to the $50K pension to equal $80K per year. Remember, for the Wealthy Pensioner income requirement the BoI is looking primarily at pension/fixed income income...stable, reoccurring income.....then any shortfall has some ways to make-up the difference like govt bonds, property, maybe the $30K example I gave above.

The Bangkok Bank facial recognition process will directed you to smile/show your teeth and/or blink your eyes....be sure to do what it says....and good lighting is required. If you are now toothless and never bought dentures you may be forever trapped in the world of Bt50K and less transfers.

Oh, I forgot to mention if you go the govt bond route you need to consider if the bond maturity length will be of sufficient length to also satisfy the LTR visa "mid term extension" (i.e., when it's time to apply for the 2nd 5 years as the 10 yr LTR visa is really a 5+5 year visa). Otherwise, you may need to buy another bond to get the extension. If you buy a govt bond to satisfy the initial issue to the LTR visa and say the bond maturity is less than 10 years, when it comes time to apply for the LTR extension at the 5 year point, that bond probably will not have at least 5 years left on it come extension application time.. So, a person would need to buy another bond of at least 5 years at time of application...switch to direct investment....or switch to a property investment. Or maybe their pension/fixed income is now at/above 80K USD/year which means no shortfall needs to be made-up via govt bond/direct investment/property. I asked BoI about this around a month ago and above is basically the answer I got.

1. Yes. And to prove the actual value it's not based on "what you think the condo is now worth" but based on Dept of Land documentation such is the OrChor 16 document which is a document you and the seller completed during the condo purchase and states the agreed to selling price. Below is a partial snapshot of a OrChor16 which includes the paragraph noting the agreed to price. In the BoI Checklist of Required Docs you'll also see the OrChor16 as one of the required docs when using your residence as proof of investment in Thailand. 2. It does not matter if your pension/fixed income is home country or Thailand based....in fact, I expect most LTR Wealthy Pensioner applicants are solely using home country generated pension/fixed income (I sure did)....say for a Wealthy Pensioner application of at least $80K USD equivalent/year. If you have a shortfall in meeting the minimum LTR income requirements via pension/fixed income, like saying having between $40K but less than $80K you can make up the difference/shortfall via purchase of govt bonds of at least $250K USD equivalent for at least 5 years, Foreign Direct Investment, or Property Investment. See the BoI LTR weblink/snapshot at bottom for summary details...and the BoI LTR Required Docs Checklist below shows more details. The BoI LTR webpage has full info in various areas....various level of detail. Of course bonds can have varying interest rates, maturity length, and interest payment intervals, but right now Thai govt bonds are typically paying approximately 2.50-3.0%. Like a 23 Apr 2023 Bangkok Post news article titled, "Government bonds worth Bt40B readied" said a 7 year govt bond would pay 2.70% per year with interest paid every three months....and a 10 year bond would pay 2.60% per year with interest paid every 6 months. Now keep in in mind that 15% of each interest payment will be withheld for tax....like getting a Bt10K gross interest payment will result in Bt1.5K being withheld for tax resulting in a net of Bt8.5K. But you can get that Bt1.5K withholding tax refunded each year by filing a Thai tax return/refund request which quite a few foreigners do who have tax withheld from their Thai bank deposit interest payments. OrChor16 partial snapshat BoI weblink to and partial snapshot of Wealthy Pensioner Required Docs https://ltr.boi.go.th/documents/Required-Documents-for-Qualification-Endorsement-for-Wealthy-pensioner-16-03-66.pdf https://ltr.boi.go.th/index.html#what