loonodingle

Well known journalist (not allowed to mention probably - initials AD) who has been living and working in Thailand for 25 years is leaving as he fears for the safety of himself and his family.

http://www.samuitimes.com/journalist-andrew-drummond-leaving-thailand-after-25-years-of-exposing-foreign-criminals/

'What I have done has been clearly in the public interest. But apparently not according to judges in Koh Samui who are now handling the Koh Tao murder cases.'

My well being has been threatened as have those of my children. This is not of course the first time, but the recent threat came from a group of people who have killed with impunity before, and have even had police set up people on false charges.

Enlightening article - thanks.

While you have picked out two statements it is important to clarify (after reading the complete article) that these are not necessarily connected, as Andrew has conducted journalist investigations into activities of FOREIGN criminals. It is speculation to assume the 'group of people' are residents on Koh Tao, although the statement re the Koh Samui judges seems to indicate that criminals have been shielded by the RTP, and (possibly if they have that mindset) to release the Burmese 2 would not be in the public interest.

I agree with what you write ST. But this is very big news and although the two statements may not be connected, I thought it important to highlight them in light of the sustained silence and possible fear of UK witnesses in the murder case.

The fact he has added that into his sentence is definitely taking a swipe at the judges ability to differentiate between ruling in favour of justice or criminals. Why else pick this particular court??.

... but, for now, the real killers are on hiatus awaiting the all-clear sign from the Big Boss before it's OK to strike again.

Mocking those 2 people's deaths is the lowest for of wit. Not the first Time is it Crab with you and your curt and snide remarks.

If in UK. Deed poll name change and you are sorted. If you was say blacklisted for example. New passport and driving licence. Etc etc. That will not stay like that once biometrics is compulsory. IMHO.

The world is a much better place with the likes of Andrew Drummond, who is as brave as any soldier. He knows the best (his Thai wife and kids, the food, most of the people, etc..) and the worst of Thailand, an utter dichotomy that would be beyond comprehension for many, but for journalists like Andrew, and Phuketwan Editor Alan Morison, who also fits the category of brave warrior, although these folks would deny it, such is their modest mentality..

But when the lowest common denominator of foreign scum pays off corrupt Thai police, and other assorted thugs, for any number of nefarious activities, where morals and ethics are found at the end of a gun barrel, or at the tip of a machete...whether we are reading about no good Goudie on Andrew Drummond.com, or the marginalized Rohingya on Phuketwan.com.

According to the thugs, Mr. Drummond's best-buy date was up years ago, yet he remains relatively fresh, quite undaunted, however cognizant that he has a family that has to come first. He's smart enough to know that he'd be little use to his cherished family, if the thugs (farang and Thai) got their way.

Whether Islam extremists, corrupt Thai police, or expat criminals languishing in Pattaya, all those with the conscience of a plastic flower, with the morals and ethics of a cornered rat, need to be put under the spotlight, or else the rats will continue their depravities, their scams, their murders unabated...in murky shadows, where they prefer to be of course.

Virtually every one of them are cowards, when isolated. Consequently, folks of this ilk stick together, like sh-- on a blanket.

Journalists like Andrew and Alan are in the same category as Charlie Hebdo, they are modest, albeit imperfect people, light years ahead of their adversaries, in terms of a moral compass. Now it's up to readers of conscience, to help them, to emulate them in some small way, like sharing information that could save lives. After all, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

Is that you Andrew? ????

its obviously some sort of journalists. Nice paragraphs. Precise use of the Englit langwich. . Lol..

Leaving or left???.

Can't believe he would announce before he done it. That's giving get his enemies a last gasp to get hold off him. As he claims he has had death threats that are credible.

I would be on the plane before I announced anything.

By the way for the people who think I run up and down a motorway loosing the plot FYI there is no motorways in Norfolk. ?

also I don't mind putting a little effort in. If it helps in the slightest way the 2 goats avoid the death penalty. I guess it's called being part of the human race as opposed to sub human. We all must consider that friends or family could very be looking at what we write so some respect is needed as this just fills some guys time, propped up with a bottle in one hand and one finger typing with the other...lol.. you know who u r.

The more I hear about the British Coroner (FCO), the more powerless she appears to be. If this keeps going, she'll be as involved as the woman who stamps a passport at a border crossing. Supposedly, FCO is charged with determining how the victims were killed (murder weapon, types of wounds, whether drugs involved, DNA evidence, etc.). Is the FCO doing that? Who hears about their findings and when?

If/when some more backpackers are murdered and/or raped at Ko Tao, will any of this be relevant?

Boomer the trouble is perhaps you are not Englit? ??... FCO is the Foreign and Common Wealth Office. Totally separate from the Norfolk Coroner.

A Coroner just rules on cause of death. Example... accidental... or... murder.. or natural death. It's a incorrect to think they in someway run a criminal trial or rule the Thailand Police or the Thailand court or Coroner. They don't.

These 10 questions where sent to the FCO on the 24th October. Worth a read. And read between the lines to their responses.

Also bare in mind we do carry out investigations in other country's. Take madeleine Mccann

10 questions to the Foreign and Commonwealth Office (FCO) and asked will there ever be justice for Hannah and David?

False reports that a friend was guilty, confused manhunts for multiple suspects, allegations of torture, withdrawn confessions, bizarre media conferences and an investigation that has taken twists and turns from day one. The Thai investigation into the brutal killings of Norfolk student Hannah Witheridge and Jersey backpacker David Miller has been fast-moving, but rarely clear.

British police officers, including a Norfolk detective, are now in Thailand working with Thai police to find the truth.

We ask the Foreign and Commonwealth Office (FCO) - will there ever be justice for Hannah and David?

• What are the British officers working alongside the Royal Thai Police in Thailand focusing their investigations on?

The investigation is a matter for the Thai authorities. British police have travelled to Thailand to get a better understanding of the investigation and stand ready to offer any support if necessary. The scope of cooperation will be determined by the respective authorities.

• Does the FCO plan on sending further British experts to Thailand if the officers are not satisfied with their initial findings?

It would be inappropriate to speculate about the outcome of the deployment while it is ongoing.

• When did the British government first approach the Royal Thai Police about getting involved with the investigation? Or what was the catalyst for wanting to send British police?

At the Asia-Europe Meeting summit in Milan, the prime minister raised the murders of Hannah Witheridge and David Miller with Thai prime minister Prayut Chan-o-cha. The two leaders agreed that it is important that whoever committed these murders was brought to justice in a fair and transparent way, and that British police experts should travel to Koh Tao to provide assistance.

• Does the FCO have concerns about the treatment of the two Burmese suspects?

We are concerned about the reports of allegations of mistreatment and expect the Thai authorities to address these thoroughly and transparently.

We have raised our concerns with the Thai authorities, including the need for the investigation and any future judicial proceedings to be carried out according to due process in a fair and transparent way.

As a matter of principle, the UK unreservedly condemns the use of torture and does not condone its use for any purpose.

• Does the FCO have specific concerns over the transparency of the case, in light of mixed reports over the suspects’ confessions?

The UK cannot interfere in Thailand’s judicial proceeding, but we encourage the Thai authorities to address these allegations thoroughly and transparently.

• Does the FCO think that information could have been better relayed to the British government and to the families of the victims?

We continue to provide support and assistance to Hannah and David’s family at this tragic time.

We do not comment on the detail of individual consular cases nor on the assistance that we have provided.

• What are the British government’s specific concerns over the Royal Thai Police dealings with media in Thailand?

The conduct of the investigation remains a matter for the Royal Thai Police and the Thai authorities.

• Is there concern that criticising the Thai police investigation could jeopardise the agreement for British police to be in Thailand offering support?

The UK has a good relationship with the Royal Thai Police. British experts arrived in Thailand on October 21. A detective chief inspector from the Metropolitan Police Service Homicide and Major Crime Command and a forensic operations co-ordinator from Forensic Services have been deployed and are in Thailand.

An experienced officer from Norfolk Police has also been deployed to support the UK team.

• How confident is the FCO that those responsible for the killings will be brought to justice?

We want to see the perpetrators of this crime brought to justice and we have asked the Thai authorities to keep our Embassy in Bangkok closely informed on their investigation.

The British government cannot interfere in Thailand’s judicial proceedings, just as other governments are unable to interfere in our own judicial processes.

That said, we are very concerned by the allegations of corruption and mistreatment of the suspects and it is very important that whoever committed these murders is brought to justice.

We call for the investigation to be conducted in a fair and transparent way, in line with international standards.

• Does the FCO believe the British involvement in the investigation will reassure those, including friends and family of Hannah, who have concerns about the investigation?

We continue to provide support and assistance to Hannah and David’s family at this tragic time. We do not comment on the detail of individual consular cases nor on the assistance we have provided.

I wonder if the same senior officer who dealt with the Koh Tao deaths would say the same in this situation.

Quoted from BBC

On arriving the day after the murders, the senior police officer on the island assured us the culprit could not have been a Thai person. No Thai could possibly commit such a crime, he said, forgetting the equally ghastly murder of Welsh tourist Katherine Horton in 2006, by, it turned out, two Thai fishermen.

Just a thought.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-29834046

Some of us were under the impression that the British inquest was scheduled for Jan 6. Now we hear it was supposed to be a review, and even a review is not possible, because Thai authorities are not cooperating. It sounds like another way Thai officials can slow down and otherwise detract from an investigation. Why are Brit officials so hamstrung by Thais. Can't the Brits do anything independently? The bodies of the victims were shipped to Britain. Some of the basic things the Coroner is paid to look for (wounds, weapons used, drugs in blood) should have been done within days of receiving the bodies. DNA traces are more of a question, because it degrades quickly.

For the Coroner to withhold ALL their findings, seems to me to be a dereliction of the duties. They're not a private firm paid by victims' families. They're paid from public coffers. They're paid (and given offices and equipment) to serve the British public primarily, and secondarily to help people everywhere. Helping people, would include contributing to rid Ko Tao of murderers and rapists who are still, very likely, roaming free there. Hello Brit Coroner's Office: Do your jobs, and quit shirking your responsibilities while hiding behind the soiled skirt of legalese liquid bullcrap.

Unfortunately you haven't a clue about the purpose of a coroner it seems. Firstly they are not having a criminal trial to decide who committed the crime. They decide 4 things

Who.

When.

Where.

How.

And then make a judgement. They are not their to run a trial in Thailand.

It is normal procedure to hold case reviews before the final hearing and this is what they are doing. There is no hurry to complete on a specific date and as a trial is underway they will conclude when the trial is over.

As for findings at a postmortem this is dependant on the condition of the body. It may well of decomposed considerably. They will have been as thorough as possible. They do not withhold this report and the defense has requested it. They will not be posting it in full or exerts on Thai Visa.

Perhaps you expect to much from them or perhaps nieve to what their purpose is. Whatever it is you are incorrect in you accusations.

In trying to understand what an inqest does, I've compiled a few key points, which somewhat sincs with what LD mentioned above:

>>> It is usual for the coroner to hold an inquest when a death occurs within 24 hours of admission to hospital.

Re; KT murders: it's been 15 weeks (a lot longer than 24 hrs) and the general public won't expect to hear anything from the Brits until a year after they got the bodies, at the soonest

>>> An inquest is held in public.

....Presumably to inform interested citizens. Yet there are indications that as much as possible will be withheld from the public. I hope I'm wrong, but I won't be surprised if pressure from Thai authorities will squelch findings (to the public) as much as possible.

>>> One purpose of an inquest is to determine 'How the deceased came by his/her death.'

I've already known the inquest is not a trial, and they're not looking for culprits (though they should be). However, determining 'how the deceased came by his/her death' may also include putting forth a DNA trail. I'm going to assume Brits will dodge that also, so as not to piss off Thai authorities (by implicating those who really did the crime). Plus, Brit experts are unlikely to have any of the DNA typing of those who should be prime suspects - because Thai officials won't share crucial data with the Brits.

>>> “Interested persons” are permitted to ask questions.

That could be an opening for Loonodingle. Perhaps he/she could go as representing a quorum of interested parties of Brits (and other foreigners) who reside in Thailand. We're interested because we would like dangerous people found guilty of the crimes they committed - so they're taken off the streets, and aren't lurking around looking for new victims.

At least one of the lawyers for the defense should go to England and ask questions of the Coroner. Unfortunately, the actual inquest may not take place until after the trial. If so, that's tough luck for the defense, and good news for the prosecution.

Sometimes you are so far off base with this. There is set procedures that are followed and neither I or you can change that.

There is certainly not a conspiracy to help the Thai Polee from the Norfolk Coroner.

1.>>> It is usual for the coroner to hold an inquest when a death occurs within 24 hours of admission to hospital.

Re; KT murders: it's been 15 weeks (a lot longer than 24 hrs) and the general public won't expect to hear anything from the Brits until a year after they got the bodies, at the soonest

The deaths occurred abroad and not in the jurisdiction of the UK coroner's. Any delays are solely linked to repatriation of the bodys. The Thai coroner has priority as the crimes are primarily a Thai based issue. The Coroner is following the exact same time format as is expected in a UK murder case. If there is a trial it is delayed until the verdict. This is what will happen in this case.

2.>>> An inquest is held in public.

....Presumably to inform interested citizens. Yet there are indications that as much as possible will be withheld from the public. I hope I'm wrong, but I won't be surprised if pressure from Thai authorities will squelch findings (to the public) as much as possible.

I fail to see the basis for your insinuations. it is breach of protocol to release any findings to the general public prior to the inquest. Thai or British murders.

This is the rules:

Who is a properly interested person?

The categories of properly interested persons are set out in the Coroners Rules 1984 (as amended). They include: - a parent, spouse, child, civil partner or partner and any personal representative of the deceased; - any beneficiary of a life insurance policy on the deceased; - any insurer having issued such a policy; - a representative from a Trade Union to whom the deceased belonged at the time of death (if the death arose in connection with the person's employment or was due to industrial disease); - anyone whose action or failure to act may, in the Coroner's view, have contributed to the death;- the Chief Officer of Police (who may only ask witnesses questions through a lawyer);- any person appointed as an inspector or a representative of an enforcing authority or a person appointed by a Government Department to attend the inquest; or - anyone else who the Coroner may decide also has a proper interest. The Coroner decides who will be given properly interested person status.

3.>>> One purpose of an inquest is to determine 'How the deceased came by his/her death.'

I've already known the inquest is not a trial, and they're not looking for culprits (though they should be). However, determining 'how the deceased came by his/her death' may also include putting forth a DNA trail. I'm going to assume Brits will dodge that also, so as not to piss off Thai authorities (by implicating those who really did the crime). Plus, Brit experts are unlikely to have any of the DNA typing of those who should be prime suspects - because Thai officials won't share crucial data with the Brits.

It is not in the remit of the coroner to do the work of the police even if you think they should be, Aim this towards the RTP and the UK police. I don't think the coroner will be dodging anything. Reprieve are representing the Thai Defence here in the UK. Zoe is the case worker. I can assure you they have done and are doing everything in their power inc lobbying the FCO. However they are being stonewalled IMHO by the ministers. Some further avenues are being explored this week. Unfortunately the family's are not cooperating with any requests.

4.>>> “Interested persons” are permitted to ask questions.

That could be an opening for Loonodingle. Perhaps he/she could go as representing a quorum of interested parties of Brits (and other foreigners) who reside in Thailand. We're interested because we would like dangerous people found guilty of the crimes they committed - so they're taken off the streets, and aren't lurking around looking for new victims.

At least one of the lawyers for the defense should go to England and ask questions of the Coroner. Unfortunately, the actual inquest may not take place until after the trial. If so, that's tough luck for the defense, and good news for the prosecution.

I have asked the coroner and he has provided general answers. This is the case Officer Mark. He cannot answer any specific questions linked to Hannah. Lawyers for the defence team are based in the UK and Reprieve are the UK liaison team. See ABOVE for further answers.

The coroners rulers are obtainable at this site.

http://www.coronerscourtssupportservice.org.uk/faq-s/

Have a read and you will see the facts and not have to guess the answers to your concerns. I know its frustrating, I am equally frustrated but as far as some conspiracy between the UK and Thai coroner that's groundless.

It's more than likely the rtp is spinning the story. Can you explain than how the police can make a statement that no Thai could have done this, and then found the two Burmese as suspect. And was the DNA testing done by a forensic team? Or someone other than the police force.

One just don't make such a bold statement about the murder without even completing investigation. You are right too say that I have no proof and it's just pure speculation. Just as much speculation as you think the police have the right person. And that the investigation was done properly. Yea, the problem is that most people know the investigation was not done properly and that the real killer is out there still. But you being the logical person, believe that the rtp have the right person in custody. And no I am not going to wait till the trial to to find out the truth. Because that is the idea of the Thai police, to have people forget about this horrific crime so they can pin it on the two in order to protect someone high up in the island. But people like me will never allow out to happen.

Don't tell me that that the big guys in the island have high moral integrity. With so much drugs going around these full moon parties and the population so little, the police some how can't stop the drug sales. Right...credibility and reason for shielding the big guys is obviously there. Stakes are high on the island.

And I thank you for helping out bring to attention on how important this case is. Beside, without your comments, I would not have any comic relief from this serious matter.

"Can you explain than how the police can make a statement that no Thai could have done this"

Yes, I can, it comes from the same lack of intellectual rigor that made you write "the real killer is out there still"

It was a single remark, from one policeman and the insinuation that it set the course for the entire investigation is disproved by the subsequent actions of the police, that did, in fact, target Thais during the investigation.

In short, using that comment as evidence of a cover-up is clutching at straws.

"But you being the logical person, believe that the rtp have the right person in custody."

Well, you got half of it right, I believe preponderance of the evidence presented at the trial is what is going to determine guilt or not.

"And no I am not going to wait till the trial to to find out the truth."

The evidence against the suspects is going to be presented during the trial, you don't want to see the evidence before deciding what the truth is should be. That's the basis of dogma, not truth.

You believe what you want to believe. I do not believe the police investigation on this one. So the debate goes on.

The truth is still out there. As the puzzle do not fit. How do you know the two did it? If you are not positively sure the did it, then the real killer must be pursued without haste.

Why wait till the trial and find these two are not the ones and then try to find the killers one year after. Only a fool would do that. The chances of the trail getting colder world be higher. Unless that is the idea of justice.

Perhaps sending the RTP a message on Facebook or emailing them would be a good idea for you. Cause you will not get anywhere on here. The door is closed on this case for the RTP. Job done. Result predictable. This is also the stance of the UK Poleee. These 2 victims are just collateral damage in a never ending diplomatic game. No one really cares other than the families and friends and us keyboard warriors. And not all on here really giva hoot. They are just bored individuals who like trolling. Yes you know who you are.

Some of us were under the impression that the British inquest was scheduled for Jan 6. Now we hear it was supposed to be a review, and even a review is not possible, because Thai authorities are not cooperating. It sounds like another way Thai officials can slow down and otherwise detract from an investigation. Why are Brit officials so hamstrung by Thais. Can't the Brits do anything independently? The bodies of the victims were shipped to Britain. Some of the basic things the Coroner is paid to look for (wounds, weapons used, drugs in blood) should have been done within days of receiving the bodies. DNA traces are more of a question, because it degrades quickly.

For the Coroner to withhold ALL their findings, seems to me to be a dereliction of the duties. They're not a private firm paid by victims' families. They're paid from public coffers. They're paid (and given offices and equipment) to serve the British public primarily, and secondarily to help people everywhere. Helping people, would include contributing to rid Ko Tao of murderers and rapists who are still, very likely, roaming free there. Hello Brit Coroner's Office: Do your jobs, and quit shirking your responsibilities while hiding behind the soiled skirt of legalese liquid bullcrap.

Unfortunately you haven't a clue about the purpose of a coroner it seems. Firstly they are not having a criminal trial to decide who committed the crime. They decide 4 things

Who.

When.

Where.

How.

And then make a judgement. They are not their to run a trial in Thailand.

It is normal procedure to hold case reviews before the final hearing and this is what they are doing. There is no hurry to complete on a specific date and as a trial is underway they will conclude when the trial is over.

As for findings at a postmortem this is dependant on the condition of the body. It may well of decomposed considerably. They will have been as thorough as possible. They do not with old this report and the defense has requested it. They will not be posting it in full or exerts on Thai Visa.

Perhaps you expect to much from them or perhaps nieve to what their purpose is. Whatever it is you are incorrect in you accusations.

On your 4th point How

What happens if the UK coroner has a different version than the thai coroner ?

Good question. As I said the defence will be getting a copy of what they concluded as the cause of death. Itmay seem simple to answer? The problem I can see is the Thai coroner has already been there. Unfortunately only interested parties can get access to the report pre inquest. That does include defence but i wouldn't hold your breath for a major breakthrough.

Some of us were under the impression that the British inquest was scheduled for Jan 6. Now we hear it was supposed to be a review, and even a review is not possible, because Thai authorities are not cooperating. It sounds like another way Thai officials can slow down and otherwise detract from an investigation. Why are Brit officials so hamstrung by Thais. Can't the Brits do anything independently? The bodies of the victims were shipped to Britain. Some of the basic things the Coroner is paid to look for (wounds, weapons used, drugs in blood) should have been done within days of receiving the bodies. DNA traces are more of a question, because it degrades quickly.

For the Coroner to withhold ALL their findings, seems to me to be a dereliction of the duties. They're not a private firm paid by victims' families. They're paid from public coffers. They're paid (and given offices and equipment) to serve the British public primarily, and secondarily to help people everywhere. Helping people, would include contributing to rid Ko Tao of murderers and rapists who are still, very likely, roaming free there. Hello Brit Coroner's Office: Do your jobs, and quit shirking your responsibilities while hiding behind the soiled skirt of legalese liquid bullcrap.

Unfortunately you haven't a clue about the purpose of a coroner it seems. Firstly they are not having a criminal trial to decide who committed the crime. They decide 4 things

Who.

When.

Where.

How.

And then make a judgement. They are not their to run a trial in Thailand.

It is normal procedure to hold case reviews before the final hearing and this is what they are doing. There is no hurry to complete on a specific date and as a trial is underway they will conclude when the trial is over.

As for findings at a postmortem this is dependant on the condition of the body. It may well of decomposed considerably. They will have been as thorough as possible. They do not withhold this report and the defense has requested it. They will not be posting it in full or exerts on Thai Visa.

Perhaps you expect to much from them or perhaps nieve to what their purpose is. Whatever it is you are incorrect in you accusations.

Ok not a lawyer or a judge but are courts setup to prove innocent or guilt? The only proof of guilt or innocents beyond a doubt is eyewitnesses or video of the act taking place. So IMO let the courts sort this out. Because no matter what you or I my believe don't matter for Squat here in the Land of Scams. case closed.

unfortunately it's a single judge who decides in Thailand.

....There was a separate category for "suspects who were involved in a quarrel with the two victimized British tourists at a bar" ?

A separate category? Huh? How many people were in that category? Who was in there? The killers maybe?

That's the sort of category which RTP (and their fellow shielders and echoers on this site) don't want any mention of. There are a slew of other categories (things which should have been investigated) which the same folks don't want mentioned. The reason should be clear as crystal: Anything which may implicate the Headman's people (who should be the prime suspects) is completely off limits to the Thai investigators. Such evidence may also be off-limits to British experts, but we don't know, because even after 15 weeks, they haven't said peep publicly.

We're just the general public, after all. We're not important enough to be privy to their findings, regardless of the fact that some of us (taxpayers) pay their salaries and pay for the equipment & fuel & meals & lodging which the so-called investigators are using to supposedly investigate. I'm glad people like that aren't doing aircraft maintenance. If so, planes would be falling out of the sky, hourly.

Actually it is out publicly that the police from UK did no investigation no checking evidence never took possession of any evidence.

The UK police will not share any report they compile with the Thai Police.

I see David Cameron has Donated on the Fund Page........and Apologised!!!!!! its on here.

http://www.youcaring.com/nonprofits/justice-koh-tao-murder-case/246839#supporters

Nomsod wasn't on the island.

We expect as much from AleG. I'll let you in on a secret: Even the cops don't believe that silly amateurishly-altered alibi video. There are dozens of ways cops could find out for sure whether Nomsod fled from the island early Monday morning. Did any cops, after the replacement head cop showed up - check in to any of those many leads? Of course not, and we know the reason why. One Big Reason. If you don't know what it is, ask me.

Agreed... its a shame when some lonely people feel the need for useless conversation. Almost playground style. Still that's what caring in the community has brought about.

Or here is the link to the story about the funding effort that has been set up. You can read about ALL the details by going out to the link.

http://bangkok.coconuts.co//2015/01/13/defense-fund-created-migrant-workers-accused-koh-tao-murders

A post lobbying for cash donations giving bank and transfer details has been removed as per the forum rules.

Just click on the coconuts link above everybody to read the FULL story

Keep everybody happy here..

send Andy Hall a tweet and ask him

could clear up this matter

Did you do it then??

Let us know his answer...

During the trial:

• I am sure nobody will disagree the defense will bring up the wounds on David, with (close-up) pictures and experts testifying what probably caused them.
• I am convinced that none of these experts will testify they think it was a hoe, but more likely stab-wounds, like a push-knife would inflict on you.
• I am very curious if the prosecutor will insist that the murder weapon on David was the hoe, the same hoe that didn't carry his DNA, I guess they have to, or?
• I am also very curious if they will bring up their own experts that will testify that a hoe could inflict such wounds, they probably will, they have to follow through..
• I also wonder if the defense will talk about the Pancake vendor who is on the record the B2 confessed it was bottle of wine and how the judge will deal with this.

But most of all. if this was my son or daughter that got brutally killed, I would be in that courtroom every single day. On that note, I remember the face of Fred Goldman when OJ got acquitted and I hope the parents of David & Hannah will not look the same when the B2 get convicted with the death penalty. I think it is their duty to speak up what they REALLY think and they better do it NOW! How can they live with the fact, two innocent B2 may get executed by lethal injection, while it should be pretty clear for anybody with an IQ higher than an amoeba something stinks here!

All IMHS (In my humble speculation)

Absolutely................. agree.. I have raised this with the BBC East reporter Louise on Monday and then again in a follow up email just now. The problem is the family have been fed a story.

Sorry AleG I kinda didn't get what you said. No hoe. No David no Hannah. Maybe no one really got murdered ?

Sleep for you Bert.... To many Leo tonight hey