loonodingle

There is vital elements missing. This wouldn't stand the scrutiny required in an English court.

DNA kept in House. No independent verification either.

Except it will be tried in a Thai court (whether or not it resolves with a foregone conclusion). The Brits have intentionally been kept out of the loop, and are under orders by top Thai officials to not do any investigating. Besides the fact Thailand is currently under martial law, Thailand is a paternalistic society, as in 'father knows best' or 'do as I say, not as I do.' It's a country with a rote education system where questioning of elders/teachers is considered rude and out-of-place. In this crime non-investigation, the RTP brass are like the elders in a Byzantine household.

I have been on Brandon Lewis case this week. He is the MP for Great Yarmouth... He has of yet failed to provide an Explanation why we didn't do what we set out to do.

Thanks for staying on top of that aspect of - seeking truth and justice.

Boomer

This is where I disagree with your version.

firstly we had this

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/fco-minister-summons-thai-charge-daffaires-to-foreign-office

Followed by this

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/thailand-beach-murders-uk-police-head-to-koh-tao-to-join-investigation-after-junta-leader-drops-objections-9803418.html

So to get a timeline

13 October 2014 FCO Minister summons Thai Chargé d’Affaires to Foreign Office

Saturday 18 October 2014 UK police head to Koh Tao to join investigation after junta leader drops objections

19th Dec.

Statement from the Metropolitan Police Included the following paragraph:

The UK Police officers who deployed to Thailand operated within the parameters specified in a section 26 Authority issued by the Home Office. They did NOT conduct ANY investigations into the murder of Hannah Witheridge and David Miller.

The Thai authorities permitted the UK Police to have observer status only in relation to LIMITED parts of the Royal Thai Police’s Investigation and the UK police officers did not provide ANY advice or assistance with that investigation.

They did NOT take possession of any physical evidence, forensic evidence, exhibits interviews or statements.

The Royal Thai Police provided and interpreter who verbally translated documents that formed LIMITED parts of the prosecution case.

Ok if you all want to help go to the page of the MP Brandon Lewis.

https://www.facebook.com/BrandonKennethLewis?fref=photo

On the first page down is a picture as per photo on here

expand and take a read of what I wrote. The initial post is very respectful.

He responded to me privately and on the stream.

He has not responded further .... However its his duty to. He costs the UK tax payer in excess of 250,000 Pounds per year to run his office and salary.

He represents the Cons in Power now.

Its is his duty to explain why is it that David Cameron secured approval from the Leader of Thailand to send our officers to Verify DNA to work with the RTP investigation team and to Look at the Human rights issues that is the cornerstone of the UK Gov policy.

This was why we sent a team to Thailand and it appears on the face of it to have been a failure

1. No Investigations.
2. No verification of DNA.
3. No investigations into the torture of the suspects
4. No advice given to the Thai police
5. No assistance given to the Thai Police

This was what the UK Gov promised and yet they done nothing,.

He needs to step upto the plate and do his duty... Perhaps some like s and further comments asking him Ok what are you doing Brandon will get him on the blower. We cant all sit and bang on about clippets of news come on everyone who cares.. lets get it moving.

Here's a thought, maybe the 3rd DNA found on Hannah was the one they were going to pin on Muang, but because he obviously had a strong alibi they decided to try and forget it and hope everyone else forgets about it!! Pure speculation of course!!

That's a MAJOR Trait of Thai Society..... Time forgets... Delays and Delays...a memory like a goldfish..

They poured Boiling Water on that Young man to get him to be the 3rd person...

Nobody can answer this can you.

Where is the 3rd person and why no wine bottle in the re construction

A question for the prosecution and one they will need to answer and evidence.

don't duck the question..

everyone on here is pulling snippets of news and saying they prove this or that.

Why cant each and everyone of the posters answer in their own words

What about the 3rd DNA

What about the wine bottle.

2 very factual points.... everyone is ducking.. rambling on about what order the DNA was taken.. totally irrelevant waste of time. Focus on the facts as we see them.

There is an interview with a pancake seller where he states they said they hit David with a wine bottle

There's and interview with the Forensic poleee officer who says 3 DNA. well why wasn't a 3rd person in the reconstruction.?????

A Huge piece is missing of the puzzle.........

I doubt there will be any reference by the defense re; the wine bottle. The deputized Pancake seller is probably the one who brought it up (or one of the cops in the 'safe house'?). Regardless, anything the Pancake guy mentioned which doesn't dovetail with the frame-up can readily be discounted by the RTP if/when it's mentioned at trial. I see it more as a red herring. The RTP can dismiss whatever he said by saying something like "he's not an official part of the investigative team, so....."

As far as a 3rd man not being in the reenactment: I think it's a similar dynamic: the cops can just say, "we think there may have been a 3rd perpetrator, but we don't at this time have a 3rd suspect." Again, anything which doesn't dovetail nicely with the frame-up of the B2 can be dismissed, and the judge will likely go along. Similarly, it wouldn't surprise me if anything mentioned at the trial which implicated any of the Headman's people will be dismissed right away. Reason: The Burmese are on trial, not anyone else. It's an assumption, so I could be wrong about that.

They have already admitted no DNA from David on Hoe but offer no explanation other than Roti Man who was left alone according to the RTP to interview them.

SO where is the re-construction?? Where is the Evidence. The weapon?? This is full of holes.

There was 3 DNA so they cannot side step this. They haven't made a case. Its incomplete. It doesn't fit with the forensics offered by their own expert.

Its simple either they have put a solid case together or they haven't.

There is vital elements missing. this wouldn't stand the scrutiny required in an English court.

DNA kept in House.

No independent verification either.

I have been on Brandon Lewis case this week. He is the MP for Great Yarmouth... He has of yet failed to provide an Explanation why we didn't do what we set out to do.

His reply:

I have replied to this directly on my feed, I will not comment further as I hope you will understand, i am working with FCO and PM office and the family and their police liaison officers.

Nobody can answer this can you.

Where is the 3rd person and why no wine bottle in the re construction

A question for the prosecution and one they will need to answer and evidence.

don't duck the question..

everyone on here is pulling snippets of news and saying they prove this or that.

Why cant each and everyone of the posters answer in their own words

What about the 3rd DNA

What about the wine bottle.

2 very factual points.... everyone is ducking.. rambling on about what order the DNA was taken.. totally irrelevant waste of time. Focus on the facts as we see them.

There is an interview with a pancake seller where he states they said they hit David with a wine bottle

There's and interview with the Forensic poleee officer who says 3 DNA. well why wasn't a 3rd person in the reconstruction.?????

A Huge piece is missing of the puzzle.........

Nobody can answer this can you.

Where is the 3rd person and why no wine bottle in the re construction

What's the title greenchair

Just because I want the 1000th post.

Sometimes i have to laugh. He looks like he is running and she is hanging back.

Have you never seen bar girls with falang. She is thinking ohhh I wish I didn't have to do this and he is in a hurry to get her back to his loom.. there's always to sides to a story but this is common...

If she'd been with me, she'd be thinking, "alright, tonight's my lucky night."

Rumours abound about you Boomerbang. ... It happens around your age... medication is merely a short term fix... lol.. an easy night for sure. It's just your snoring they don't like.

Sometimes i have to laugh. He looks like he is running and she is hanging back.

Have you never seen bar girls with falang. She is thinking ohhh I wish I didn't have to do this and he is in a hurry to get her back to his loom.. there's always to sides to a story but this is common...

I am thinking of ways to raise money to help the b2 defense team. I thought I might sell some tshirt. I am looking for a nice design not exactly these pictures, but something along these lines. Any ideas?

I am hoping to print a few up maybe next month. I feel sorry for the team as I know they are very low on funds.

images (4).jpg

images (6).jpg

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HI Gc,

I doubt if they would work... However... theres other ways i guess to try to fund raise. on their behalf.

Why don't you speak with Andy Hall

We can all help if we are decent human beings simply by donating to the team to help find the truth go to http://www.youcaring.com/nonprofits/justice-koh-tao-murder-case/246839 you can pay by PayPal or card.

I am thinking of ways to raise money to help the b2 defense team. I thought I might sell some tshirt. I am looking for a nice design not exactly these pictures, but something along these lines. Any ideas?

I am hoping to print a few up maybe next month. I feel sorry for the team as I know they are very low on funds.

images (4).jpg

images (6).jpg

images.jpg

images.jpg

HI Gc,

I doubt if they would work... However... theres other ways i guess to try to fund raise. on their behalf.

Why don't you speak with Andy Hall

Police say they have examined CCTV footage showing the two victims leaving a bar late on Sunday night, walking towards the beach - but they were killed in a hidden spot behind some rocks, and no eyewitnesses have yet been found.

(Jonathan Head http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-29225672) - 16 Sept.

Must have missed this. So police have footage of them leaving the bar TOGETHER? Would be helpful if they stated what time. Unless they got it wrong again and the footage was of the other couple they initially said were Hannah and David. So more footage they have chosen not to release. Why? Why have they been so selective in what they have released?

What makes you think you are entitled to it? It's a murder trial, not a media circus, as much as some people would like to make it so.

The evidence will be presented in court, were it can be contested by the defense.

They have released plenty of CCTV footage to date. I dont see the issue with releasing the footage of them together. The police werent slow to post pics of the deceased all over social media!

The pics were released by the rescue workers I think not the police. That's what I heard somewhere... gone dizzy with it all now

Police say they have examined CCTV footage showing the two victims leaving a bar late on Sunday night, walking towards the beach - but they were killed in a hidden spot behind some rocks, and no eyewitnesses have yet been found.

(Jonathan Head http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-29225672) - 16 Sept.

Must have missed this. So police have footage of them leaving the bar TOGETHER? Would be helpful if they stated what time. Unless they got it wrong again and the footage was of the other couple they initially said were Hannah and David. So more footage they have chosen not to release. Why? Why have they been so selective in what they have released?

What makes you think you are entitled to it? It's a murder trial, not a media circus, as much as some people would like to make it so.

The evidence will be presented in court, were it can be contested by the defense.

Correct AleG........ we have no entitlement to anything the defense do but not us.

We are just passengers and no one really cares what we write. I know that which is why I personally have been doing many other things to try to generate some action from the familys and the media. We musnt blow our stuff to early here and we have time.

Brandon Lewis the local MP is going to get a face full of this. He is the local rep for the current government in Hannah's ward for example. There's lots we can do as individuals to raise awareness as well as examining the clips the RTP choose to release... we must bear this in mind at all time. its a coordinated media release to make you believe what they want.

Denied access to CCTV is a big worry for me. Please would someone explain why someone would not allow access to their CCTV in such a high profile case which could cause future ramifications for your own business?

AleG?

First you'll have to show that any relevant CCTV footage has been withheld.

RTP have said that they have footage of woman running through the streets that they have not released that could be a witness to the crime or Hannah herself. Sounds very relevant.

Samui prosecuters office did release information to the defence in the last few days according to Andy Hall. Hence their trip to Koh Tao and analysis of of the evidence.

And how does one do that ?

Show it all I would suggest. Let us decide what is and isn't relevant. Surely know one could disagree with that.

"And how does one do that ?"

Precisely.

How does one use unknown footage as a basis for anything? You don't know if there is such footage; still you, and others, want to use that as "evidence" of a cover-up.

Absence of evidence is not evidence.

Unused footage cant be used as evidence. Do you not think that might be the reason it is unused ?

CCTV Camera run 24/7. There are loads of cameras as we have already seen clips from them.

The owner of the bar wont allow police to look at his footage cause its private property. But all that is OK in your world.

"Unused footage cant be used as evidence. Do you not think that might be the reason it is unused ?"

I think I will have to let you run around your circular logic on your own.

Ah how cute. I do love how people who have no reply use a childish smiley face instead. Something you do rather a lot I notice.

BerryBert

Not sure if I am reading this correctly but I can assure you that and video undiscovered so far that is unearthed by the defence can be used in evidence at a trial if helps prove or disprove any event that is crucial in finding them guilty

it probably is okay in their world they live in. To much time in Thailand or vested interest in not seeing the true killers verified a day proved guilty.

I don't make any money out of this; so your accusation is not just baseless, it also demonstrates that your are more interested in reinforcing your own beliefs than in the truth, you need to create fictional narratives for self validation.

Pay attention Ali Get I said or vested. Like island life... its all about the money whoopee business is booming message he sent in here. However I said or so that means either or..

I have no solid opinion on the killers either. You will note that my M.O. is more around stimulating a thorough investigation as promised by the UK government which is why they sent the MPS under a section 26 order.

If it the B2 or the ac staff or fishermen then so be it. I would just like to know that the real killers are convicted

by irrefutable evidence. Not a botched and possibly corrupted investigation.

Respect..

Statement from the Metropolitan Police Included the following paragraph:

The UK Police officers who deployed to Thailand operated within the parameters specified in a section 26 Authority issued by the Home Office. They did NOT conduct ANY investigations into the murder of Hannah Witheridge and David Miller.

The Thai authorities permitted the UK Police to have observer status only in relation to LIMITED parts of the Royal Thai Polices Investigation and the UK police officers did not provide ANY advice or assistance with that investigation.

They did NOT take possession of any physical evidence, forensic evidence, exhibits interviews or statements.

The Royal Thai Police provided and interpreter who verbally translated documents that formed LIMITED parts of the prosecution case.

I may not be the cleverest person in the world but something doesn't add upto to me!!!!!!!

Thanks for posting that, LD. In other words, the MET didn't do any investigating, no interviews, no gathering of evidence, no nothing, ...except ask local cops some questions. And the cops only revealed the few things they wanted to reveal.

Now add that to any clues the MET may have garnered from the bodies: DNA retrieval is unlikely, because of time lag. Plus bodies may have been embalmed before being shipped (sorry if that sounds crude). Because MET has not revealed anything thus far, re; t he crime, we (observers) are left to assume all they have to gauge the crime (from their own investigation) is: types of wounds/weapons, and possibly whether there were drugs in blood of victims. All else, is from RTP. Go figure. It's sad too for the victims' families, that they're getting just a small portion of pertinent data from their trusted Brit authorities.

Well i guess and it's only a guess. What they thought they was going todo didn't work out as they had a top forensic officer as part of the team.

No doubt the goal post moved around some point.

As for anything sourced here DNA etc well that's different as it's not the policeman who does it but a forensic pathologist who would have been under the impression that the officers who went would be back with things. They wouldn't just throw their hands in the air here and not do a thorough autopsy.

I don't know of any motive or if he was involved at all -- all I'm questioning is whether this would have been the first time he had ever been turned down and what did he do every other time some farang floozie turned him down?

that's a very skewed reasoning that isn't logical.

You try applying that to every murder.................it doesn't work does it..

Not all murders are committed by serial killers.

Its all about the trigger..... and I am not convinced it was Nomsod either I was giving Cats and Dogs my cluedo verdict. It could have been a whole host of people. However they where of Asian descent.

loonodingle -

Well it is actually like a game of Cluedo. The majority of people on here want to know who the real killer/s was. And attempts to find the truth involve finding out about the weapons used and the location of the crime. Unlike Cleudo though, the motive for the crime is at the top of the list.

Don't know what to believe about DNA in this case anymore, Asian or otherwise.

If your Medium contacts you again could you ask them if the woman was running and caught on CCTV? That would be most helpful, seen as the RTP have not released the images they have of a woman running on the night of the murders. Strange that.

LOL.....

Who says she was running???

Are you a Medium as well..

I think it would be fair to say it was Asian DNA.. No Falang detained and jailed. So its Asian

They did say blonde hair....well I see the B2 did not have blonde hair yet they retrieved it from Hannah's hand. No doubt as she fought back.

Also the RTP Fed us what they want. We are the Mushrooms and you know what they grow with don't you.

As for the Cluedo game well I think its: Nomsod, On the Beach, with a Hoe............... I would like to add his Gang of thugs as well.

Police are also trying to trace a mystery western woman seen on CCTV running along the main street in the early hours on the night of the murders

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/thailand-beach-murders-hannah-witheridge-4297320

I think it would be fair to say it was Asian DNA.. No Falang detained and jailed. So its Asian

Well you could then say - no Thai detained or jailed so it's Burmese.

aye well done I didn't see that...

Bloody medium my backside hey!!!! what they meant was they read he daily mirror

It cant be Thai... the prime minister said so... No Thai could commit this crime..still they could hack you to death with a machete for a $1.60 taxi fare though.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/american-hacked-death-over-1-60-cab-fare-thai-police-v19346962

loonodingle -

Well it is actually like a game of Cluedo. The majority of people on here want to know who the real killer/s was. And attempts to find the truth involve finding out about the weapons used and the location of the crime. Unlike Cleudo though, the motive for the crime is at the top of the list.

Don't know what to believe about DNA in this case anymore, Asian or otherwise.

If your Medium contacts you again could you ask them if the woman was running and caught on CCTV? That would be most helpful, seen as the RTP have not released the images they have of a woman running on the night of the murders. Strange that.

Sorry missed the Motive.......

The motive was he was all over her like a rash and she wasn't having non of it. Davids taken her away from there hence he was then a target. The guy who wanted her had her and then his mate had a go as well. Another one sexually assaulted her as well. She has what appears like fingers marks on her upper body were she has been restrained by people.

Just like he had to take care of all the other girls who maybe turned him down saying to him: No BJ for you tonight, big boy.

Unfortunately neither of us know the motive crabby. There is very little facts on here that can be backed up from either side of the fence.

They will go to their deaths on the back of the DNA..unless the fact that they kept it in house raises sufficient cause for concern that the presiding judge rulers it inadmissible.

No Pornthip

No 3rd Party verification.

It must weaken their case. not sure if its enough though and non of us do. its all if buts and maybe's hey!!

loonodingle -

Well it is actually like a game of Cluedo. The majority of people on here want to know who the real killer/s was. And attempts to find the truth involve finding out about the weapons used and the location of the crime. Unlike Cleudo though, the motive for the crime is at the top of the list.

Don't know what to believe about DNA in this case anymore, Asian or otherwise.

If your Medium contacts you again could you ask them if the woman was running and caught on CCTV? That would be most helpful, seen as the RTP have not released the images they have of a woman running on the night of the murders. Strange that.

Sorry missed the Motive.......

The motive was he was all over her like a rash and she wasn't having non of it. Davids taken her away from there hence he was then a target. The guy who wanted her had her and then his mate had a go as well. Another one sexually assaulted her as well. She has what appears like fingers marks on her upper body were she has been restrained by people.