BusyB

I'm not a cheap charly or penny pincher, but 33 quid is over 1400 baht and is a slap up feed in Fuji with some left over for a massage ;D

In an earlier life I took on debt and went bust. Purely hedonistic. Didn't even have a car to show for it. A high 5 figure sum, a long time ago - well into 6 figures nowadays. When I defaulted the bank eventually passed the deed on to a debt collecting agency. I agreed to pay a symbolic sum each month to them, and they stopped chalking up the interest. When I finally got my life back together many years later and was earning well, I went back to the agency and made a deal with them that I would pay half, and they'd close the file. They'd already made a profit, and would be happy to get a lump sum back on top. They agreed, I borrowed the reduced sum from my new bank, gave it to the agency and paid off the bank over a few years at an acceptable rate. The average Thai has no access to these kind of possibilities and even if they did they probably wouldn't know about them.

Ignorance, addiction, lousy upbringing, social pressure, lousy education: crime drugs and loan sharking soar in poverty conditions. Very few escape the pressure. And it's a bit much lending money to people like that and seriously expecting it back. I wouldn't. But I don't judge them either. Addiction and gambling (also addictive) and the like are forms of pure insanity.

Interestingly, interest actually has a purpose and some interesting origins (Italy) ... it's all explained in Graeber's book that I touted somewhere on the thread here : Debt, The First 5000 Years. Great read. It's also worth mentioning that I'm retired yet banks still push credit at me. Fortunately I'm not desperate, and if I was in my part of the world I could go to social security. And if things got so bad I could also come to a legal bankruptcy agreement that would clear me after 7 years as long as I lived according to certain conditions. I know someone who's had to do that after their business went belly up during Covid. Things like that simply aren't available in LOS.

Oh dear. I'll keep the forum posted about my experiences.

Sorry, maybe you meant that with income method.

I agree with you that the majority of Thais would wear helmets etc. if they had the cash. Wages in LOS are abysmal, for ridiculously long hours that most on these forums have never had to work - at least for a living. Apart from the occasional socially minded like Aldi, who've just hiked UK wages of their own volition, only unions get wage hikes. Regardless of what all the liberation Trumpets'll tell ya! The factory owners'll will either get the state to clamp down or come to some arrangement with the parasites and become another source of income for them - both those alternatives are cheaper than a wage rise.

At least now you know. You still did the right thing. The only thing I'd say is that one should never lend money in cases like that. always give it (at least in your mind). That way if you actually get it back it's gravy. If not, it doesn't matter, you gave someone a present.

And they know from the get go that you won't be able to pay it off as well. They're parasites, simples. They prey on the vulnerable.

The interest to the sharks would have been much much more than 5k/month 555. Lucky guy and well done you.

David Graeber's "Debt - The First 5000 Years" is a great read. Basically the history of money and the origins of debt.

The broke people I know own small Honda's to get to work, and the cheapest mobiles because they need the connectivity. Yes there are the profligate. They are a minority in my experience. I don't know a single person who's done something like that. The people I know are happy to have enough to put in the bike's tank to get to work. Afterthought: and are deeply grateful to have a job again after the pandemic disaster that ruined them financially and sent them to the loansharks because the government didn't give a fruit fly's fart about them.

100% agree.

Even as they lend the money they know damn fine the victims can't pay it back, and basically they attach themselves as parasites to the income flows of a low earning population who can never pay back the principle.

Correct, but it's no life living under the threat of violence, and where every penny you make is extorted from you - without even paying off the actual loan. I've known someone who was paying more 'interest' than they earned in a month. The victims are usually decent hard working people. And all too frequently cops ARE behind it. So where do you turn?

Loan sharks are always the last resort.

I really can't imagine what triggered this king of uncontrolled anger, nor where to start. But I will say: you were not walking in her shoes. And as I said to OneMoreFarang - either you understand it or you do not. Your shoes seem to fit you quite well.

Maybe she was dumped by a farang husband? If you ain't walked a few miles in someone's shoes don't judge 'em.

Desperation, pure and simple. Either you understand it or you don't. Most westerners have never been in that situation. Many are forced by the family to take on debt, to pay off other family members' debts. The youngest daughters are often victims of that. Many just don't have any more money to put food on the table since the pandemic. 4k - relatively modest sum these days. The police should hunt those dogs down and deal with them badly. But then again maybe even the cops are behind it.

100% Karen! That guy just ducked a bullet ... maybe he'd had his doubts ...

I hope that's not a hint of what I can expect when I apply ... what about the embassy in Berlin? tried that?

He's German. Depends on if he's retired with a pension over 65000 THB. The embassy will give him a letter confirming that - he won't need the 800k from what I can gather. The non-O in Germany only needs 1200 EUR pension proof interestingly enough. At least that's what the website says.

Perhaps, I'll take your word for it. I can't be bothered to compare the statistics or conditions (max power/speed for instance) so perhaps there could be a lesson for Thailand there. But I still think it's mad - motor bike riding is also about maturity and judgement, neither of which are well developed in pubing 14 year olds.

Q: Should such aged children as 14 be riding motorcycles? A: Are you mad? Q: What does it say about road safety education if they are driving a vehicle - and a motorcycle at that - while on the phone? A: It shows the system is bankrupt. Q: What is likely to happen to the apparently entirely innocent pick-up drivers involved in such a tragedy? A: Who knows? A question of 'negotiation' quite likely. Q: Should the police be on the lookout for transgressions and doing something to enforce traffic laws? A: The question is rhetorical, no? Q: Should their supposed masters - the politicians - be doing more to ensure the RTP enforce the law? A: One would expect so. Q: Do the politicians even care? A: Apparently no more than the police. Q: Should schools do more to train students - even the underaged when it comes to riding or driving - in good habits on the roads? A: One would have thought so. I can recall something called the 'Cycling Proficiency Test' when I was a kid. We did the training for it at school. I wasn't allowed to cycle beyond the front street until I had that in my pocket aged 10.

But of course you know that that was due to the Tom Yum crash, and the gradual recovery afterwards don't you. Had nothing to do with 'Labour' or even the Tories.