Now I'm slim, what diet to aid muscle mass increase?

[SS1]

17 hours ago, tropo said:

You don't mention age anywhere in your post. Age is a huge factor in this...

 

We're talking about a 58-year-old man here, not a kid. "Bulking up" is just fattening up, which the OP does not want to do. He's been working his butt off to lean out and lose flab. If he eats more calories than he needs, even if it's protein, sure, he'll bulk up again, but that's not what he wants to do. I don't know how old you are, but when you're older you don't need anywhere near the calories of a young man to stay muscular AND lean. I can maintain a muscular 100kg (age 58) with a surprisingly low calorie consumption, unlike when I was in my 20's when I had to keep eating all the time.

Yes you are right, I read the OP a bit too fast. I am young and don't have experience / knowledge about how older age affects diet and training. 

 

By the way, for OP, if you feel that it's easy to gain fat but hard to add muscle, I recommend to get your testosterone levels checked. If deficient, this can play a big part in the results (can say from experience). 

[tropo]

56 minutes ago, SS1 said:

Yes you are right, I read the OP a bit too fast. I am young and don't have experience / knowledge about how older age affects diet and training. 

 

By the way, for OP, if you feel that it's easy to gain fat but hard to add muscle, I recommend to get your testosterone levels checked. If deficient, this can play a big part in the results (can say from experience). 

I have a bit of experience as a young trainer, and now older. I started training when Arnold was still competing in 1975 at age 15 and haven't stopped since. It's a whole different world when you're older. When you're older the moto should be "first, do no harm". When you're young, you don't give a sh*t. Having said that I'm more injury free and more muscular now that when I was a kid.

 

Another moto I would add is: "less is more". It's better to do too little than too much. Too little means wasted potential. Too much means injury and/or regression. Erring on the side of caution is the smart way.

 

I mentioned the testosterone connection above. It's the key to gaining muscle when you're old. It's the missing link, so to speak.

Edited September 6, 2017 by tropo

[connda]

You need Iron.  Not the type you eat; the type you lift.  And balanced diet with a reasonable amount of protein.  

If you're a relative newbie to resistance training, this isn't a bad place to start.  http://bodyforlife.com/

My personal opinion is that they recommend more protein intake than you need and based on your age a 2000 calorie a day diet may be too much.  

 

Balanced diet, resistance training, and interval training such as HIIT, and then rest.  That's your game plan.

[simon43]

quote]

By the way, for OP, if you feel that it's easy to gain fat but hard to add muscle, I recommend to get your testosterone levels checked. If deficient, this can play a big part in the results (can say from experience). 

[/quote]

 

Yes, this is an important observation, particularly for me.  I do have a low T level - it is a genetic thing and my father was the same and my young son has to be checked for this when he reaches his teen years.

 

Many years ago, I had T implants under my skin (there being no injections available at that time)

 

I did have T injections about 5 years ago, but my PSA levels increased, so I stopped the injections.

 

At my last blood check in March of this year, I had my T levels checked again and they were low.  The doctor recommended a course of T injections, but keeping a close eye on my PSA levels.  

 

I declined his offer because I need to self-inject, since I live in Myanmar.  However, I understand that self-administering of T is quite feasible.

 

I will be in Thailand at Xmas, and will maybe start a course of testosterone at that time, taking the T back with me to Myanmar.  I'm back in Thailand at Songkran, so can have a PSA check at that time.

[SS1]

5 hours ago, simon43 said:

quote]

By the way, for OP, if you feel that it's easy to gain fat but hard to add muscle, I recommend to get your testosterone levels checked. If deficient, this can play a big part in the results (can say from experience). 

[/quote]

 

...

 

I know how low T feels like, as I had very low levels for a year after suffering testicular cancer at the age of 18. Since I started TRT feeling so much better. Self-injecting to the glutes is very easy - after a while I actually prefer it rather than someone else sticking needles in me. I recommend Nebido in particular, that can be injected at 8-12 week intervals so it's quite convenient. (although I recommend injecting it more often for more stable levels, by dividing the dosage  in two). 

 

As you were worried about PSA levels, I must say I have had issues with prostate enlargement since starting TRT. However, this wasn't caused by the testosterone itself but by excessive estradiol levels, that I now control with an aromatase inhibitor (Exemestane). All problems are gone. Unfortunately this is an area of medicine where doctors still have little knowledge, and many refuse to prescribe anti-estrogens even when necessary. Now of course in Thailand, you don't need prescriptions but in Europe this is a big problem. It seems that some people react more easily to external T and have excess estrogen as a result. 

[tropo]

15 hours ago, SS1 said:

 

I know how low T feels like, as I had very low levels for a year after suffering testicular cancer at the age of 18. Since I started TRT feeling so much better. Self-injecting to the glutes is very easy - after a while I actually prefer it rather than someone else sticking needles in me. I recommend Nebido in particular, that can be injected at 8-12 week intervals so it's quite convenient. (although I recommend injecting it more often for more stable levels, by dividing the dosage  in two). 

 

As you were worried about PSA levels, I must say I have had issues with prostate enlargement since starting TRT. However, this wasn't caused by the testosterone itself but by excessive estradiol levels, that I now control with an aromatase inhibitor (Exemestane). All problems are gone. Unfortunately this is an area of medicine where doctors still have little knowledge, and many refuse to prescribe anti-estrogens even when necessary. Now of course in Thailand, you don't need prescriptions but in Europe this is a big problem. It seems that some people react more easily to external T and have excess estrogen as a result. 

If you're using an aromatase inhibitor, be sure to have the estradiol levels checked from time to time to be sure they don't fall too low. Estrogen is an important hormone in males too.

[robblok]

On 6-9-2017 at 3:16 PM, simon43 said:

quote]

By the way, for OP, if you feel that it's easy to gain fat but hard to add muscle, I recommend to get your testosterone levels checked. If deficient, this can play a big part in the results (can say from experience). 

[/quote]

 

Yes, this is an important observation, particularly for me.  I do have a low T level - it is a genetic thing and my father was the same and my young son has to be checked for this when he reaches his teen years.

 

Many years ago, I had T implants under my skin (there being no injections available at that time)

 

I did have T injections about 5 years ago, but my PSA levels increased, so I stopped the injections.

 

At my last blood check in March of this year, I had my T levels checked again and they were low.  The doctor recommended a course of T injections, but keeping a close eye on my PSA levels.  

 

I declined his offer because I need to self-inject, since I live in Myanmar.  However, I understand that self-administering of T is quite feasible.

 

I will be in Thailand at Xmas, and will maybe start a course of testosterone at that time, taking the T back with me to Myanmar.  I'm back in Thailand at Songkran, so can have a PSA check at that time.

Self administering of T is quite easy, but it takes a bit of time to learn. There are plenty of how to vids to do it. You could also ask a dr to help you find a good spot that suits you (need to rotate) many who self inject do their legs, others the buttocks (depends on agility)

[tropo]

16 minutes ago, robblok said:

Self administering of T is quite easy, but it takes a bit of time to learn. There are plenty of how to vids to do it. You could also ask a dr to help you find a good spot that suits you (need to rotate) many who self inject do their legs, others the buttocks (depends on agility)

Legs a favorite spot? Seriously? There are more nerves there than most places. It makes me nervous going in LOL. If you hit it wrong you'll be limping. The absolute best place for self-administration is the ventral glute site - it was made for it. Hardly any nerves and no major arteries or veins.

[HidyHo]

49 minutes ago, tropo said:

Legs a favorite spot? Seriously? There are more nerves there than most places. It makes me nervous going in LOL. If you hit it wrong you'll be limping. The absolute best place for self-administration is the ventral glute site - it was made for it. Hardly any nerves and no major arteries or veins.

I learned how to do it by watching a bunch of youtube videos and have been injecting on my quads for last three years or so (switching legs).  It's very doable and easiest place for me to reach as I have limited flexibility (due to ankylosing spondylitis since early 20s).  I may get soreness for a couple of days but never a limp.

[tropo]

7 minutes ago, HidyHo said:

I learned how to do it by watching a bunch of youtube videos and have been injecting on my quads for last three years or so (switching legs).  It's very doable and easiest place for me to reach as I have limited flexibility (due to ankylosing spondylitis since early 20s).  I may get soreness for a couple of days but never a limp.

It's not that it's not doable, but the spot I mentioned above is far superior and it's super easy to reach. I've only limped once, but it was a memorable experience. 

[robblok]

9 hours ago, tropo said:

It's not that it's not doable, but the spot I mentioned above is far superior and it's super easy to reach. I've only limped once, but it was a memorable experience. 

I find the spot you mentioned harder to do when your alone (limited agility), and I have never limped doing it in the quads. I guess different people different opinions. But when I have the choice i prefer your area, but done by someone else. 

 

Edit i read about your spot its not the butucks but somewhere else on the side of the leg, but you have to be real precise to find it. 

Edited September 9, 2017 by robblok

[tropo]

3 hours ago, robblok said:

I find the spot you mentioned harder to do when your alone (limited agility), and I have never limped doing it in the quads. I guess different people different opinions. But when I have the choice i prefer your area, but done by someone else. 

 

Edit i read about your spot its not the butucks but somewhere else on the side of the leg, but you have to be real precise to find it. 

Yes, you have to be precise as it's a small area, but once you know it it's extremely easy. You can do it sitting down. My choice preferences would be ventroglute > glute > deltoids > legs, in that order. Whatever you do, don't stick it in your calves or biceps LOL.

[JSixpack]

Why diets backfire: A year or more after weight loss, the desire to eat grows stronger

[tropo]

14 hours ago, JSixpack said:

Why diets backfire: A year or more after weight loss, the desire to eat grows stronger

I think the reason diets backfire is that people like to eat, period. Dieting is an unnatural process in an environment where delicious, high-calorie foods are plentiful. People never lose their desire for junk food. Even monkies will eat a Mars bar in preference to a healthy banana, which has become a problem for wildlife in some tourist areas.

 

 

[dontoearth]

On 9/3/2017 at 8:02 PM, sinbin said:

At least you're laughing with a diet like that. I too lost a lot of weight through cycling and dieting but I'd never do the same again. I reckon it lowered my immune system and I came down with infection after infection. I said never again and I meant it. Exercise by all means but F*** the dieting. Eat a balanced diet.

 

Edit: I was cycling 40 km a day for god knows how long. I lost all sense of direction until it made me ill. Never again with the dieting.

      There is a lot of new evidence that over doing it with cardio causes immune system disorders.  What in your diet do you think caused the immune system disorders?  Or your environment?  Do you have any known infection causing agents in your environment?  Bad air-con with mold? Water pipes that are in sad shape.  Air pollution? These are all big problems here in Thailand. 

[dontoearth]

On 9/5/2017 at 8:11 PM, tropo said:

You can build plenty of muscle with high reps in the 15 - 20 rep range, and even 20 - 30. The trick is to work to failure and be sure to keep form strict so you're working the target muscles. I seldom do less than 15 reps these days. It's a great way to train because you can keep the loads lighter and therefore less risk of injury. It doesn't mean you're throwing around cufflinks though. It's much harder than 3 sets of 8 reps and once you get used to 15 - 20 reps, you can use some decent loads.

The best way for the OP to hold on to and build muscle is to cut back on long slow cardio and focus more on muscle building exercises. Substitute long slow cardio for HIIT cardio. That can chew through fat just as fast and it works the heart even more... but 3 times a week max.

Regarding what diet to help build muscle - you only need more protein if you're protein deficient. If you're not, it's a waste of money. I enjoy whey protein smoothies straight after intense workouts. I blend a banana, frozen fruit (blueberries & strawberries mainly), milk and natural (no flavour) WPC, a raw egg and a pinch of Himalayan Pink Salt together for delicious smoothy after my workouts and sip it while I relax and enjoy the after-workout glow. This is a replacement meal, not an additional one. I like the convenience of a liquid meal after hard workouts, but solid food will do just as well.

    Agreed he is doing way too much cardio.  Much better to find a way to focus on resistance training and drop a few of the cardio events if you want muscle.  Cardio does not help with muscle building.  It may not even be as good at keeping weight off as were first reasoned by some weight loss experts.  

[dontoearth]

On 9/5/2017 at 2:16 AM, anfh said:

You dont say how tall you are, but at 62kg, unless you are only around 4ft 10, i think you are vastly underweight. 

     I blame the media!   Anytime they do an obesity special they focus in on people wearing stretch pants with fat giggling in every direction.  We have all seen those camera angles with faces blurred out but hips and asses wiggling away.  Those people are not obese.  They are morbidly obese and terminally ill!   BMI's around 45 or higher.  Obesity is somewhere above 30 on the BMI.   It is one of many indicators along with high blood pressure, Type II Diabetes, High Cholesterol, lack of energy, pain in the joints etc.   

     About 66% of the population is overweight (in the first world now) and in denial. 

     My brother blames it all on his old bathroom scale!  It is off 10 lbs that is all!   I said your still overweight if it is 10 lbs.  20 lbs. 30 lbs. 40 lbs 50 lbs. or 60 lbs!   He has a stomach gut protruding off his belt buckle that makes it hard for him to get behind a steering wheel. Still he says he is not overweight and feels fine.  He mainly feels fine because he refuses to see a doctor!  And he couldn't afford a new scale he had to buy a 50,000 USD car!

      Now I am not mentioning any individual in my post.  I just think it is very hard for most to accept how 'thin' you need to be to have really good health.  The weight numbers for longest life expectancy alone put people into disbelief.

[dontoearth]

On 2/3/2018 at 9:39 AM, JSixpack said:

Why diets backfire: A year or more after weight loss, the desire to eat grows stronger

     The article hints that food restriction was used as the diet.   We have known for a long time now that food restriction leads to this endless rebound.  I have felt much better and had many less cravings by doing Intermittent fasting and taking out all the nutritional devoid simple carbohydrates.  No potato chips, no french fries, no cookies!  By doing the IF and taking out certain foods I found cheat day miserable.  I would get heart burn from those simple carbohydrate toxic waste dump foods. So I don't schedule a cheat day anymore.   I was amazed by this approach and I know people are starting to work hard to get IF more accepted. It wold be nice to see a long term study on IF and keeping weight off.  Keeping high glycemic load foods off my plate (often simple carbs) has been very compatible with IF.  I skip breakfast.  If I don't feel hungry I power on to dinner.    

       This is research available that shows that fasting does not slow the metabolism like food restriction diets.  This may be the reason it is working better on me. 

[JSixpack]

 

24 minutes ago, dontoearth said:

     The article hints that food restriction was used as the diet.   We have known for a long time now that food restriction leads to this endless rebound.  I have felt much better and had many less cravings by doing Intermittent fasting and taking out all the nutritional devoid simple carbohydrates.  No potato chips, no french fries, no cookies!  By doing the IF and taking out certain foods I found cheat day miserable.  I would get heart burn from those simple carbohydrate toxic waste dump foods. So I don't schedule a cheat day anymore.   I was amazed by this approach and I know people are starting to work hard to get IF more accepted. It wold be nice to see a long term study on IF and keeping weight off.  Keeping high glycemic load foods off my plate (often simple carbs) has been very compatible with IF.  I skip breakfast.  If I don't feel hungry I power on to dinner.    

       This is research available that shows that fasting does not slow the metabolism like food restriction diets.  This may be the reason it is working better on me. 

6

 

I don't disagree w/ you and in fact I was the original low carb proponent on this forum much to the contempt and sneers of our countless TVF Nutritionists then. I was also one of the first to advise re: the efficacy of IF and have used it myself after a visit to the States. 

 

But you really can't claim that low carb and IF aren't types of food restriction. 

 

Low carb does have one of the best, and in some studies THE best, rates of longer-term compliance, however. It's worked well for me, too.

 

[dontoearth]

3 hours ago, JSixpack said:

 

 

I don't disagree w/ you and in fact I was the original low carb proponent on this forum much to the contempt and sneers of our countless TVF Nutritionists then. I was also one of the first to advise re: the efficacy of IF and have used it myself after a visit to the States. 

 

But you really can't claim that low carb and IF aren't types of food restriction. 

 

Low carb does have one of the best, and in some studies THE best, rates of longer-term compliance, however. It's worked well for me, too.

 

      I should be more careful in my wording I was referring to calorie counting and portion control.  Total failures as diet plans.        I don't limit low glycemic load complex carbs.   The rest are toxic.  I agree. 

     BTW!  Thanks!  Your advice was helpful to me in many ways.  I got nothing from the move more eat less crowd.  No wonder Coke, McDonald's and Frito Lay have put 65 million dollars into 'public service programs' to spread this worthless message.  It is indeed not helpful. 

     Re-evaluating carbs and doing IF took 36 lbs. off my body.  I am going for about 22 more just doing the same. 

     I haven't seen a single calorie counter portion control dieter doing well on this message board.  Most seem to give up after awhile.  Along with the Low fat people, and those that think they want to see a doctor for help.

      So thanks again for some worthwhile advice and help.

 

[simon43]

Just to up date this thread since my OP last September.

I've maintained my diet of raw veg/fruit/oily fish/nuts/keffir milk/lean chicken/red wine + a few supplements (saw palmetto, calcium, multivits, omega E fish oil). I'm happy with this diet.

I continue to cycle to/from work every day. I'm moving home in a couple of months, and will have to cycle about 20Km every day to/from work. No sweat!

That new home has a kitchen! So I can start to stir-fry some veg etc.

I stopped going to the gym every day, but took up road jogging. I typically jog 10Km every other day.

I concentrate on maintaining (actually increasing) my biceps/triceps by doing pull-ups and chin-ups, and strengthening my abs by flexing my abdomen during the pull-ups/chin-ups.

My weight stays steady around 63 Kg.

All in all, I'm very happy with the improvement in my overall health and well-being, as well as getting rid of the flab.

I am due for a detailed blood-work test in early April, so will report those values when I get them

I don't feel hungry, and have no cravings for pizza, ice-cream, chocolate etc. I do eat all of those types of foods, but make it a special occasion :)

In general, I take the approach to avoid any food that has added sugar (which means about 90% of what you can buy in a supermarket).

[tropo]

7 hours ago, simon43 said:

Just to up date this thread since my OP last September.

I've maintained my diet of raw veg/fruit/oily fish/nuts/keffir milk/lean chicken/red wine + a few supplements (saw palmetto, calcium, multivits, omega E fish oil). I'm happy with this diet.

I continue to cycle to/from work every day. I'm moving home in a couple of months, and will have to cycle about 20Km every day to/from work. No sweat!

That new home has a kitchen! So I can start to stir-fry some veg etc.

I stopped going to the gym every day, but took up road jogging. I typically jog 10Km every other day.

I concentrate on maintaining (actually increasing) my biceps/triceps by doing pull-ups and chin-ups, and strengthening my abs by flexing my abdomen during the pull-ups/chin-ups.

My weight stays steady around 63 Kg.

All in all, I'm very happy with the improvement in my overall health and well-being, as well as getting rid of the flab.

I am due for a detailed blood-work test in early April, so will report those values when I get them

I don't feel hungry, and have no cravings for pizza, ice-cream, chocolate etc. I do eat all of those types of foods, but make it a special occasion :)

In general, I take the approach to avoid any food that has added sugar (which means about 90% of what you can buy in a supermarket).

According to your OP and title (Now I'm slim, what diet to aid muscle mass increase?).

 

You're not going to attain any decent level of muscle mass on your current exercise regime. All that long slow cardio is rather catabolic and will probably age you faster. It's a lot of oxidative stress on the body with little benefit other than burning calories. It's also a lot of stress on the joints.

 

A moderate to high protein diet with high-intensity cardio for shorter periods coupled with a good weight training program is the best way to go IMO. I prefer cardio exercises where I work the entire body, not just the legs. 

[dontoearth]

6 hours ago, tropo said:

According to your OP and title (Now I'm slim, what diet to aid muscle mass increase?).

 

You're not going to attain any decent level of muscle mass on your current exercise regime. All that long slow cardio is rather catabolic and will probably age you faster. It's a lot of oxidative stress on the body with little benefit other than burning calories. It's also a lot of stress on the joints.

 

A moderate to high protein diet with high-intensity cardio for shorter periods coupled with a good weight training program is the best way to go IMO. I prefer cardio exercises where I work the entire body, not just the legs. 

     There is actually a lot of sports research now backing up Tropo.  The long grinding cardio will in fact allow fat to build up on your body as your weight remains the same.  It breaks down muscle!  I think your bike ride to work is wonderful.  I would skip the running and jogging and other activities and make more time for the gym. 

      My own experience this summer being in the states was to do intense cardio.  I walked 14 miles a day and did the divvy bike program all over Chicago and when it got cold I did 100 floors of stairs in my high-rise building.  I didn't have access to a gym or a trainer.   My weight didn't change by a pound.  I was so proud.  

       When I got back here and was able to get on the Tanita Body Composition Analyzer Scale I was shocked to find out around 4 kilos of FAT had returned to my body!  My weight was the same but my muscle tone was really much lower.  This is not a good and I always urge people to get a good measurement every once in awhile to see if your feelings and own measurements are in line with what you are trying to achieve.

         Alert forum member Tropo asked if I was able to stay on TRT and the answer was NO.  We just can't get injectable in the USA and the goo did nothing for me.  I got two shots of short term test in the 6 month period from a friend.  I needed about 10 more shots with that protocol and could not do it.

           So the take away is put the cardio in its place.  Make sure you have a good heart beat and blood pressure which is a sign you are in top cardio health.  Then get to the muscle building in the gym as your exercise!  And see about your TRT health.  I think you should always start with a doctor and learn the ropes not just inject or swallow pills.  You should know your over all numbers and monitor them enough to know you are in a good range.

            I do the elliptical in the gym to bring my heart rate up before lifting and do it after to burn some fat.  I spent 15 before and up 30 minutes after.  This is more than enough.   I spend 55 minutes lifting.  I tried increasing that to 1hr. and 15 minutes last year but couldn't make it any progress in the extra 15 and cut back.  I would not increase my cardio further.  There is just no pay off.

 

[simon43]

The jogging and cycling is a very low-effort exercise for me (this wasn't the case 12 months ago!). It burns the calories and keeps my leg muscles in good shape.

The only weight training that I do now are the chin-ups, pull-ups and abs exercises. These have definitely have a positive effect on my arm and abs muscle mass - I'm very happy with the result.

That leaves my chest, shoulders etc. I prefer to exercise at home now (the hotel gym worked out quite expensive!). From April, I will move from my small hotel room to a 3-bedroom house and private garden, which will offer much more potential for home exercise and weight-training.

[dontoearth]

26 minutes ago, simon43 said:

The jogging and cycling is a very low-effort exercise for me (this wasn't the case 12 months ago!). It burns the calories and keeps my leg muscles in good shape.

The only weight training that I do now are the chin-ups, pull-ups and abs exercises. These have definitely have a positive effect on my arm and abs muscle mass - I'm very happy with the result.

That leaves my chest, shoulders etc. I prefer to exercise at home now (the hotel gym worked out quite expensive!). From April, I will move from my small hotel room to a 3-bedroom house and private garden, which will offer much more potential for home exercise and weight-training.

     I believe my expensive gym and pricey trainer are worth every dime.  BTW! Most trainers are useless.  I had 5 that got ZERO results let them all go keeping them anywhere from 2 years (way too long for zero results) to 30 days.  Finding the right trainer was an amazing experience.  As for a gym I pay for a pretty pricey one because it has a Tanita Body Composition Analyzer.  I can see every few weeks how I am doing with a good consistent high quality measurement.

      Once you have learned about weight training you can probably go it alone.  If you don't know much about I would get to a gym and get the pointers.  It is the best exercise but it has great potential for harm.  Pulling out a muscle etc.  misaligning the back or shoulders.   Getting some instruction is very worthwhile.

       I continue to use my trainer because he just keeps results.  I am not willing to argue with good results.  I might need to switch gyms.  They have brought in their own trainers and have made a policy you have to use them.  I am now quite certain most trainers are full of crap.  Mine is certified and quite knowledgeable.  I don't want to go back to some natural athlete who looks bored and does little work during our sessions.

 

 

Edited February 6, 2018 by dontoearth

[JSixpack]

21 hours ago, dontoearth said:

 I got nothing from the move more eat less crowd.

1

 

Classic case was that of member singa-traz:

 

 

2 hours ago, dontoearth said:

There is actually a lot of sports research now backing up Tropo.

 

tropo is exactly right in that post.

 

Edited February 6, 2018 by JSixpack

[JSixpack]

 

2 hours ago, simon43 said:

That leaves my chest, shoulders etc.

 

 

Well, no. It really leaves most everything else, including stomach. (Tightening! ). Pullups are helpful for shoulders, BTW.

 

So best follow tropo's advice above. I would only add that you can do most if not all of what you need w/ bodyweight exercises alone, and they're easier on the joints, so I dunno why you're not doing them.

 

Mark's Daily Apple

Wild Man Training

Bodybuilding.com

Lifehacker Table

YouTube bodyweight

YouTube suspension trainer

 

A cardio machine of some sort is always nice to have. Cesspoolians! Where d'ya get home gym equipment around Pattaya? Read here, here, and here. Or you can order from Lazada. Lazada also sells suspension trainers.

 

Edited February 6, 2018 by JSixpack

[dontoearth]

2 hours ago, JSixpack said:

 

Classic case was that of member singa-traz:

 

 

 

tropo is exactly right in that post.

 

     Yep rice and fruit juice pasta, cookies, donuts, crackers, chips and most bread are gone from my diet.  High glycemic loads.  I do have an orange when I want.  It is whole food and not concentrated calories and lots of fiber to keep the glycemic load down.   I have whole steamed or baked or boiled veggies also.  I stay away from the processed simple carbs.  They make the fat cling to your body by putting you in hyper hungry mode.  

      Did anyone ever join the message board that was a whole food advocate?  I did learn a lot about that but mainly it was watching youtube I think.  It helped me incorporate a few good carbs and really steer clear of such foolishness and concentrated juice products and processed grains like pasta.

[dontoearth]

2 hours ago, JSixpack said:

 

 

Well, no. It really leaves most everything else, including stomach. (Tightening! ). Pullups are helpful for shoulders, BTW.

 

So best follow tropo's advice above. I would only add that you can do most if not all of what you need w/ bodyweight exercises alone, and they're easier on the joints, so I dunno why you're not doing them.

 

Mark's Daily Apple

Wild Man Training

Bodybuilding.com

Lifehacker Table

YouTube bodyweight

YouTube suspension trainer

 

A cardio machine of some sort is always nice to have. Cesspoolians! Where d'ya get home gym equipment around Pattaya? Read here, here, and here. Or you can order from Lazada. Lazada also sells suspension trainers.

 

      Simon43 has much more discipline than I do.  I just could not force myself thru body weight exercises.  I wish I could and it is something I am thinking about so that I don't miss any muscle building opportunities when I am away from bkk where I get several weight lifting sessions a week.

[transam]

No strain, no gain...No pain no gain...