Kamala Harris: Balancing Loyalty and Change in Her Bid for the Presidency

[Thaidream]

The sanctions that will work are in the banking industry where the US stops financial transactions going through third countries to North Korea by closing down all electronic means of getting money into North Korea. Without money they cannot purchase the needed equipment and ammunition to keep their military running as well as oil to keep their economy running. The Chinese and Russians don't like this idea as their banks are the biggest supporters of North Korea.

 

In addition, North Korea has sent many thousands of their workers to work abroad in a variety of industries to make hard currency and this is transmitted back to the North Korea regime. Some of these countries are in Europe and the Middle East. The North Korea workers need to be ent back to N Korea but the countries using their labor are not doing this as they are exploiting the low wages being paid. 

 

If the World community would come together on these issues and work to stop N Korea from exploiting its own citizens and potentially selling a nuclear weapon to some rogue entity- no war situation would exist.  Does any really want to see a dirty bomb exploded in London, Paris, Tokyo or New York.   I am no fan of Donald Trump- but let's not confuse our dislike of the man and some of his rhetoric from the realities of this situation.

 

North Korea is a rogue state-out of control-  not the US.

 

[dundee48]

20 hours ago, baboon said:

Putin is on Putin's side.

He also likes crawling up China`s ass.

[dunroaming]

12 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

North Korea is a rogue state-out of control-  not the US.

I agree that North Korea is a rogue state out of control.  I also think that the USA is not out of control but is close with Trump calling the shots.  Hopefully the generals will keep him in check with the reality of the options.

 

There is no quick fix for Kim as things stand that would not involve massive loss of life to thousands of innocent people.  So the options as I see it are to, either accept that North Korea is now a nuclear power and encourage him to get involved in being an international player with the intention of negating the threat.  Or to take out Kim and his closest confidents.  He rules by fear and not by genuine popularity so it should be possible to get to him.

[iReason]

South Koreans fear that Donald Trump is 'kind of nuts' as nuclear crisis escalates

 

“They think they’re dealing with an unreasonable partner and complaining about it isn’t going to help – in fact, it might make it worse,”’ said David Straub, a former State Department official who dealt with both Koreas and recently published a book about anti-Americanism in South Korea."

 

‘“Opinion polls show South Koreans have one of the lowest rates of regard for Trump in the world and they don’t consider him to be a reasonable person,” Straub said.

 

“In fact, they worry he’s kind of nuts, but they still want the alliance.”’

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/south-koreans-fear-donald-trump-kind-nuts-092143168.html

Edited September 6, 2017 by iReason

[BuaBS]

7 hours ago, Thaidream said:

North Korea is a rogue state-out of control-  not the US

Many would say the US is an out of control state , and since decades, long before Trump inherited this mess. Just ask all the countries the US invaded .

 

7 hours ago, Thaidream said:

Without money they cannot purchase the needed equipment and ammunition to keep their military running as well as oil to keep their economy running.

There's always bitcoin to evade financial sanctions.

 

Let's not forget that NK has large metal & mineral resources for trading especially with China.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mining_in_North_Korea#Nonferrous_metal_mining

Edited September 6, 2017 by BuaBS

[TKDfella]

8 hours ago, retarius said:

Putin the only world leader talking any sense. Yesterday at the UN, the Russians forced Nikki Haley to admit that there were no prospects of additional sanctions working...."the would rather eat grass than give up their nuclear arms."

 

This crisis is manufactured by the US. If there was no problem with Pakistan, India, Israel having nuclear weapons why not NK....at least they have a stable government unlike India and Pakistan. Nukes are deterrents, Kim knows that if he uses one he will die in the aftermath.....he has at best a few warheads whereas the US has more than 2000. He needs a deterrent to avoid what is becoming very commonplace in the US led world, regime change. He has seen what happens to leaders who won't do the US's bidding and who gave up their nuclear programs....people like Saddam and Gadhaffi.

 

Talks should recognize their right to have such arms as non signatories to the NNPT, and try to get them into the NNPT fold so they don't sell them to Iran or elsewhere.

While I would agree with some points what worries me is that the more nations that have nukes the probability increases that one of them will use it/them. In addition to that I would guess the probability would also increase that there would be someone 'out there' just itching to sell/steal the technology to/for terrorists. At present, I don't think Nk has a 'madman' in charge and I would hope that he understands the consequences. On the other side of the coin are the suicide bombers...whether they die by a few kilos of explosive or a fission bomb won't make a lot of difference to them. While simple enough to assemble accessing the material would be the hard part but again the probability will increase with the increase in nations that have the material.

[Thaidream]

The General Officers that surround Trump will keep him in check. Trump respects these people and I doubt he would ever over rule their recommendations.  NK may well launch another missile- the  second it takes off-the US will know it and where it is headed and when it will land.  If that missile is estimated to strike a US Ally or US territory- it will be shot down. What comes after that is anyone's guess.

 

 As I mentioned, the time for the World to stand together on this issue is now- NK must be checked and stopped from any further proliferation.  Russia and china hold the key.  As long as NK thinks it has China's support it will remain rogue  and out of control.  Earlier today, NK indicated it could shoot a nuclear missile over the US and knock out the American  electrical grid. Eventually, America and its people are going to have enough of Kim and his threats.

 

I am certain that there are actions and plans at this moment to take out Kim and his military command if necessary.

[baboon]

3 hours ago, dundee48 said:

He also likes crawling up China`s ass.

I shall defer to your clearly superior knowledge of matters regarding the anus...

[craigt3365]

9 hours ago, Krataiboy said:

On the side of a diplomatic solution rather than a world war.  Makes sense to me.

Then why hasn't Russia negotiated a solution the past 40 years or so?

[craigt3365]

10 hours ago, stevenl said:

Because both are not willing to stop with provocations.

How many times has the US or South Korea invaded NK? Research the opposite. Stunning. Place the blame properly.

11 hours ago, baboon said:

Then China and Russia clearly aren't all that bothered about this, ahem, 'Global Menace', even though they both share a border with the DPRK. Doesn't that indicate something to you?

China and Russia are making money off NK. I bet you'd see a completely different scenario if NK threatened either one. LOL

 

 

[Krataiboy]

Just now, craigt3365 said:

Then why hasn't Russia negotiated a solution the past 40 years or so?

It takes two to tango. Unfortunately the US keeps stumbling around on two left or right feet, depending on whether Democrats or Republicans are on the dance floor.

[aright]

On ‎05‎/‎09‎/‎2017 at 1:05 PM, stevenl said:

Stop with provocations, both sides, and talk to eachother seems a much more sensible consequence.

They have been talking to each other since 2003......14 years. Can you tell us what ground you think hasn't been covered in that time which might give us some optimism.

 

 

[craigt3365]

1 hour ago, Krataiboy said:

It takes two to tango. Unfortunately the US keeps stumbling around on two left or right feet, depending on whether Democrats or Republicans are on the dance floor.

You always blame the US. Gets old.

[Jonmarleesco]

Putin talking a peaceful path. That's not his style. Perhaps he and Xi should start to walk the walk together and demonstrate to everyone else just how their solutions would work in the real world.

[baboon]

23 minutes ago, Jonmarleesco said:

Putin talking a peaceful path. That's not his style. Perhaps he and Xi should start to walk the walk together and demonstrate to everyone else just how their solutions would work in the real world.

What do you define as "The real world"? Are the UAE, the South Africans, the Panamanians, the Turks, the Jamaicans howling just as loudly for a solution to this 'terrifying crisis'?

[craigt3365]

8 hours ago, baboon said:

What do you define as "The real world"? Are the UAE, the South Africans, the Panamanians, the Turks, the Jamaicans howling just as loudly for a solution to this 'terrifying crisis'?

How about Bolivia, Ethopia, Senegal and Uruguay? Real world enough? All voted to sanction North Korea. And all howling loudly for a solution to this terrifying crisis.

[Krataiboy]

11 hours ago, craigt3365 said:

You always blame the US. Gets old.

Only when they deserve it.  Maybe you should start applying the same rule to your constant carping about Putin and the Russians.

[craigt3365]

33 minutes ago, Krataiboy said:

Only when they deserve it.  Maybe you should start applying the same rule to your constant carping about Putin and the Russians.

What's carping? LOL

 

I've yet to see a positive post from you about the US. The US is not the cause of every problem is the world. Though many think so.

 

As for Russia, yes, I complain about them regarding a variety and issues. Sadly, they are deserving of it.

 

The US isn't perfect, but far from the worst nation in the the world. And I for sure down support all their policies. Though I don't "carp" about every single issue. LOL

[Krataiboy]

4 hours ago, craigt3365 said:

What's carping? LOL

 

I've yet to see a positive post from you about the US. The US is not the cause of every problem is the world. Though many think so.

 

As for Russia, yes, I complain about them regarding a variety and issues. Sadly, they are deserving of it.

 

The US isn't perfect, but far from the worst nation in the the world. And I for sure down support all their policies. Though I don't "carp" about every single issue. LOL

Sounds like we are attempting to get to the same place from opposite directions. See you there.

[aright]

Just now, aright said:

 Many people in the world and on this forum feel by talking there is a solution to every problem that is acceptable to both sides. I don't agree. While I think warfare between N Korea and the Allies would be very costly in human and financial terms I accept that war is sometimes the ultimate (only) solution. This impasse I think will be the final test of the United Nations. If they can't solve it and considering their past record, handling other world problems, they have no purpose in the world.

 

[stevenl]

4 hours ago, aright said:

 

And why do you think talk is of nu use?

[Rancid]

On 9/5/2017 at 10:34 PM, ExpatOilWorker said:

If the US is tied down in a nasty conflict on the Korean peninsula, Russia can finish what they already started in Ukraine and Eastern Europe. China will fortify every single reef they can find in the South China Sea.

Saudi will handle Qatar. Iran will have a go at Israel. There are probably a few unsettled scores in Africa that will flare up.

Venezuela will destroy itself.

 

Interesting view of the world, and one that many share via their TV every night. Just to toss a little objective thought into the equation, the US organized an illegal coup against the elected government in the Ukraine and tried to seize the only Russian warm water port in the Crimea. Crimea had a vote and decided to rejoin Russia (yes, it was part of Russia for a long time). I'm not really sure what insidious plot the Russians have in E Europe as have never heard of it, so will leave that one be.

 

Of course if the US is tied down in Korea it will be because they started a war there, however doubt anyone would be that stupid. China will indeed probably continue to fortify reefs, hardly a friendly move towards their neighbors, but seems to be based on denying the US navy from blocking their trade routes. Yapping poodle Australia was recently in war games there with the US practicing such.

 

Saudi Arabia cannot even handle impoverished Yemen to steal their resources, unless the US or Israel helps hard to see how they will deal with Qatar, who essentially seem to be realigning with Iran for economic reasons. Israel is nuclear armed, who in their right mind would have a go at them?  Yes, poor old Africa, still sacrificial pawns on the global chess board.

 

Venezuela is in a sad state, in part by their own actions and also in part through a certain country interfering. Doubt an invasion there, although alluded to, would be well received. Have you noticed that in every world conflict there is one common aggressive denominator, figure that one out and then all things appear in a different light.

[aright]

5 hours ago, stevenl said:

And why do you think talk is of nu use?

They have been talking for 14 years without a solution. Evidence of the value of talk I would have thought.  Do you think a dissatisfied trade union would talk to employers for 14 years before they took their ultimate action.........strike.

[White Christmas13]

On ‎6‎/‎09‎/‎2017 at 2:05 AM, Thongkorn said:

China could stop ALL this in one move, stop the oil.

Well read this

 

http://www.news.com.au/world/asia/china-backs-un-to-take-necessary-measures-against-north-koreas-latest-nuclear-testing/news-story/2f50913bb52cc75ce2e696f1002a6264

[aright]

23 minutes ago, White Christmas13 said:

Well read this

 

http://www.news.com.au/world/asia/china-backs-un-to-take-necessary-measures-against-north-koreas-latest-nuclear-testing/news-story/2f50913bb52cc75ce2e696f1002a6264

I agree China could stop it by denying them oil but they have had 14 years to do it and haven't and at the moment are saying we must find a diplomatic solution. Good luck.

My take on your article and others I have read shows fear on Xi Jinping's part if the Americans go to war and take over, he will then have US Missile Launchers on the Chinese border. Mr Putin's fear is if the Americans are in North Korea he will have less influence in that part of the world. The Americans have got half the Korean peninsula, Xi Ping and Putin would consider it a disaster if they controlled all of it     

[David Walden]

We all know what happened when US, Australia and the Western nations blockaded Japan in 1936.  The Japan escalated their military production.  Took over North East China and nearby states to obtain their own supply of iron ore, coal, oil and got their manufacturing base going, you know like tanks guns, planes, battleships etc, etc.  They believed a trade war was in progress against them. They then felt justified in attacking Pearl Harbour and kicking off WW2 in the Pacific. Wars are all about trade.  War with Korea will be the same old story that's been going on with trade between countries since time began.  Just give North Korea a few bones and a chance to enter the world trading market be it be a limited basis and all will be OK, they don't have to make bombs cannons etc. etc. maybe cars instead.  Sometimes a little give and take can have great results...I promise you it can/will work...Somes time Western Nations are a bits of slow learners?   Where there is a will there is a way.

Edited September 8, 2017 by David Walden

[David Walden]

11 hours ago, aright said:

 

Oh rubbish.  Trade and sharing trade with trading nation will be much better.  I hate to see you being dead right.

Edited September 8, 2017 by David Walden

[aright]

You are absolutely right but you haven't told us what we do to get to that position. What's your answer?

[ExpatOilWorker]

5 hours ago, Rancid said:

Interesting view of the world, and one that many share via their TV every night. Just to toss a little objective thought into the equation, the US organized an illegal coup against the elected government in the Ukraine and tried to seize the only Russian warm water port in the Crimea. Crimea had a vote and decided to rejoin Russia (yes, it was part of Russia for a long time). I'm not really sure what insidious plot the Russians have in E Europe as have never heard of it, so will leave that one be.

 

Of course if the US is tied down in Korea it will be because they started a war there, however doubt anyone would be that stupid. China will indeed probably continue to fortify reefs, hardly a friendly move towards their neighbors, but seems to be based on denying the US navy from blocking their trade routes. Yapping poodle Australia was recently in war games there with the US practicing such.

 

Saudi Arabia cannot even handle impoverished Yemen to steal their resources, unless the US or Israel helps hard to see how they will deal with Qatar, who essentially seem to be realigning with Iran for economic reasons. Israel is nuclear armed, who in their right mind would have a go at them?  Yes, poor old Africa, still sacrificial pawns on the global chess board.

 

Venezuela is in a sad state, in part by their own actions and also in part through a certain country interfering. Doubt an invasion there, although alluded to, would be well received. Have you noticed that in every world conflict there is one common aggressive denominator, figure that one out and then all things appear in a different light.

That aggressor is the shining star of freedom?

 

I do agree that Uncle Sam at times sticks his nose in and step on sensitive toes at times, but I think we could live in a very different world if he hadn't. Would I have been raised in Europe speaking German or Russian?

Would communism have stolen the freedom for a few more generations in Asia and South America?

Would the middle east have been even more violent. Just watch "Cries from Syria" to see how the locals treat each other. They make a bit of Guantanamo waterboarding look like a refreshing shower.

 

That said, you have some valid and interesting points. Good post.

 

Edited September 8, 2017 by ExpatOilWorker

[ExpatOilWorker]

26 minutes ago, David Walden said:

We all know what happened when US, Australia and the Western nations blockaded Japan in 1936.  The Japan escalated their military production.  Took over North East China and nearby states to obtain their own supply of iron ore, coal, oil and got their manufacturing base going, you know like tanks guns, planes, battleships etc, etc.  They believed a trade war was in progress against them. They then felt justified in attacking Pearl Harbour and kicking off WW2 in the Pacific. Wars are all about trade.  War with Korea will be the same old story that's been going on with trade between countries since time began.  Just give North Korea a few bones and a chance to enter the world trading market be it be a limited basis and all will be OK, they don't have to make bombs cannons etc. etc. maybe cars instead.  Sometimes a little give and take can have great results...I promise you it can/will work...Some time Western Nations are a bits of slow learners?   Where there is a will there is a way.

 

You just solved the puzzle, now go and sell your idea to little baby boy Kimmy.