Pros/Cons: Find a teaching job through an agency

[Joosesis]

I'd like some advice.  What do you think are the pros and cons of finding a teaching job through an agency?   I am assuming cons to be the agency fees (or skim off the top), but there is also a pro in their experience with visas/work permits, etc.   I am not in Thailand yet (though arriving soon) and have contacted schools directly to little success.  This is completely understandable since I am still here, however, an agency has offered a job.   I'm weighing my options right now.

[tonray]

There are very few agencies that are worth the services they pretend to provide. I worked for an agency at one time and the only positive thing I can say is that they paid on time. They did help with the paperwork for Visa and WP but only in time frames that were in their best interests. If you needed docs (for example termination letter) that would n hot be in their best interests, they simply 'forgot' to do it on time.

 

If you have teaching experience, are young and reliable, then you will have no issue getting a position. In Thailand, there are 7 crap jobs for every 10 available, so you may have to switch a few schools before you find one that is worth staying at. Just the reality of teaching here which is why I gave it up. Just not worth it.

 

Semester 1 ends in about a week or less....2nd semester starts around November 1st so if you want a position, get yourself out there 2 or 3 weeks before start and see what's available.

[davidst01]

11 minutes ago, tonray said:

There are very few agencies that are worth the services they pretend to provide. I worked for an agency at one time and the only positive thing I can say is that they paid on time. They did help with the paperwork for Visa and WP but only in time frames that were in their best interests. If you needed docs (for example termination letter) that would n hot be in their best interests, they simply 'forgot' to do it on time.

 

If you have teaching experience, are young and reliable, then you will have no issue getting a position. In Thailand, there are 7 crap jobs for every 10 available, so you may have to switch a few schools before you find one that is worth staying at. Just the reality of teaching here which is why I gave it up. Just not worth it.

 

Semester 1 ends in about a week or less....2nd semester starts around November 1st so if you want a position, get yourself out there 2 or 3 weeks before start and see what's available.

Do you mind if I ask what date does 2nd semester end next year and what date does it usually all start again?

 

thanks

[newatthis]

5 minutes ago, davidst01 said:

Do you mind if I ask what date does 2nd semester end next year and what date does it usually all start again?

 

thanks

2nd semester usually ends at the end of February. The next school year starts again about middle of May. One of the disadvantages of agencies is that there will be no holiday pay for that long break because most agencies pay only for the semester.

As for the "skim off," if you are promised 32,000 baht per month, then that is what you will get paid. The arrangement between the school and the agency is nothing for you to worry about. There is no guarantee that direct employment through a school will mean more money [but maybe a 12 month contract, though]

You probably won't get employment directly with a school, unless you appear in person and can do a demo lesson for them; so be prepared for that.

Try working this semester with an agency and see if you like teaching here in Thailand. Then try contacting schools directly for work in the 2018 / 2019 school year.

[tonray]

26 minutes ago, davidst01 said:

Do you mind if I ask what date does 2nd semester end next year and what date does it usually all start again?

 

thanks

Every school is a bit different of course. It's up to the director. But 'in general' the 2nd semester ends around March 15th and starts up again around May 15.

[Global Guy]

7 hours ago, Joosesis said:

I'd like some advice.  What do you think are the pros and cons of finding a teaching job through an agency?   I am assuming cons to be the agency fees (or skim off the top), but there is also a pro in their experience with visas/work permits, etc.   I am not in Thailand yet (though arriving soon) and have contacted schools directly to little success.  This is completely understandable since I am still here, however, an agency has offered a job.   I'm weighing my options right now.

Overall you really need to be in Thailand to get a teaching job. I tried the teaching gig in 2002 and while in Thailand, got a job in South Korea through a recruiter based in Thailand.

 

In fact, I worked as a teacher through an agency in Thailand too. The school subcontracted the teaching jobs to them and hired us. As others posted, they do pay on time. Other than having "lifers" in management, it wasn't an issue either way.

 

But this was 2002-2004, so I have no idea about now.

 

 

[lucifer666]

Tried three agencies and not one of them has ever paid. There was always an excuse of why it was late.. Eventually i quit them all once i realised that my salary was never going to arrive.

[KIWIBATCH]

Don't deal with an agency whilst outside of Thailand....danger..danger...!! There are some very good agencies about and a fair sprinkling of real bad ones.

Best you get over here so that you can visit the agency personally ...it is worthwhile...pick up the vibes....get a "feel"...sort out the BS/lies (plenty of that) from the truth....

 

Apart from that some schools do hire directly  and not through an agent...there are several websites in English (Thailand based) that offer a mixture of agency/direct hire...

 

PM me if you want to know more...cheers and good luck

[Joosesis]

Thanks!  

 

I taught in Bangkok 20 years ago.  I arrived without a job and it all worked out fine, so I'm not so worried about finding a job.  This go 'round I will not be in BKK and have done a mix of direct contact to schools and to an agency.  I'm just curious about the use of agencies as I have never used one in the past.   I like the offer I've received from the agency (and it is only for one semester, so I can use that time to meet with schools directly, if need.)....   still weighing my options.

[ozmeldo]

I pretty much know the few better schools that use agencies and can tell you that if you need to go thru an agency to work there, it's just not worth working there. The schools and programs are not that great and there are equally good gigs without them, so why?

 

Working for an agency always means atrocious management. Westerners are the worst, often they use Filippinos as well. The teaching staff, 50% off the top are degenerates. Agencies at the moment are paying about 27-47 depending, but in reality 32-37 first year employment. EP 40. You will be treated as a cog and no matter your professional background your issues summarily dismissed. They want you to work really stupid hours like 22-23. The worst agencies use their own workbooks from internet downloads,, cobbled together by teachers bailing out on them. Many advertise higher salaries but backload pay and guess what, you never quite did the job...half bonus for you! End of year bonuses are a sign of a shitty agency. They need to bribe you to just finish the year. Many steal Thai holidays from you and most steal Oct/April breaks.

 

There is one fairly notorious agency which no one ever has anything good to say about save for they pay on time. They're making inroads into Issan but not holding Bangkok well at all.

 

If you value your sanity and building a career, agencies are not, absolutely not the place to be. The only people half content at agencies are the foreign head teachers that have slithered into a comfy spot.

 

Having said all this, if you find a school using an agency employing teachers and they make well over 45 and have two weeks in October and all of April paid - it might be a sign of some reasonableness.

 

Only lazy people consistently work for agencies. The only excuse is that there are a few good schools that use them and it might be worth doing a year or two to strengthen the resume. Having said that, I can only think of about half dozen schools that I might work but knowing the crap agency that holds the contract on two, it would exclude those.

 

One final note. If things go south and you need to bail out you will burn a very, very valuable waiver. No agency is worth that risk. It's already dicey between you and the school for them to meet expectations.

 

I've worked for two agencies and left both schools not bc of the schools, but the agencies. I've recently learned that one crazy ass teacher has sklunk is way into a sweet spot at my former school with a very good reputation. He's a total creeper and his resume is an entire fabrication.

 

Tldr: NO

Edited September 27, 2017 by ozmeldo

[ozmeldo]

18 hours ago, Joosesis said:

Thanks!  

 

I taught in Bangkok 20 years ago.  I arrived without a job and it all worked out fine, so I'm not so worried about finding a job.  This go 'round I will not be in BKK and have done a mix of direct contact to schools and to an agency.  I'm just curious about the use of agencies as I have never used one in the past.   I like the offer I've received from the agency (and it is only for one semester, so I can use that time to meet with schools directly, if need.)....   still weighing my options.

 

Bit of a Pollyanna. Yeah things have changed. You need, NEED a degree, a proper visa, a teaching certificate. The cops and TCT are all over this stuff. TAXES... If you think you're going to front up and have a go, maybe an agency is perfect for you.

 

You'llget a 90 day B visa which I'm sure they'll make you pay for.

A TR can and should be converted to B

 

If you need to leave the country that will cost so much you'll lose money workingat what agencies pay.

 

Don't give them your passport that way they can't process a waiver. On the appointed day just go with them to CW.

 

90 days probation - Nov, Dec, Jan. School is done end of Feb.

 

You've been warned

 

PS no one, should be working in Bangkok for less than 36k rock bottom for new teachers with degrees.

 

No degree? You're gonna get scammed.

Edited September 27, 2017 by ozmeldo

[ozmeldo]

On 09/26/2017 at 9:32 AM, davidst01 said:

Do you mind if I ask what date does 2nd semester end next year and what date does it usually all start again?

 

thanks

Depending on public school, including final exams

 

Week 3 Feb to Week 3 Mar

Week 2 to beginning Week 3 May

[quandow]

Been teaching in Thailand 7 years. I've heard plenty of negative reports about agencies and not ONCE have I ever heard anyone say, "I sure am glad I used that agency!"

[Scott]

Most people have negative experiences with agencies, but for a few that is not the case.  

 

Last year, we hired a person who had worked for an agency for the previous year.   He was looking for a permanent school.   The agency gave him time off (with pay) to attend an interview and when he was accepted, they were extremely cooperative in assisting with getting the visa and work permit taken care of with the new school.  

 

They also provided a van and moved him to the new school.  

 

He is a very good teacher and was always cooperative with the school and the agency and very straight forward.   Unfortunately, I don't recall the name of the agency, but they were very professional with the paperwork for his job change.  

 

Years ago, we also hired a young lady after she had completed her contract with an agency.   She had been assigned to a number of schools, including several rural schools, which is what she wanted.  She wanted to experience as much of the country as possible.   Per her request, she did substitution in a number of areas when teachers had to leave for a time.   She was paid on time, received her end of contract bonus.   Like the other employee, she was very upfront with the agency, she was a good teacher and in return, she was treated well.  

 

Although these are exceptions, I have noticed that those who worked for agencies and complained also turned out to be less than stellar in their performance.  

 

Agencies are always risky, but may be an option for some.  

 

[zyphodb]

Have a look on adjarn.com probably the best online resource for you....

[puchooay]

There are good agencies out there. One that I have experience with is very good. Pay on time, paid time off for getting visa, work permits. Office staff prepare paper work and arrange to meet at immigration. All fees paid by agency. Lesson plans (good ones) all ready. Exams written and provided by agency. Only 19/20 hours teaching a week. Good salary.

 

Regular contact made and at least 1 personal visit to the school per term.

 

They are out there. You just need to work out who they are.

[Joosesis]

On 9/27/2017 at 5:48 AM, ozmeldo said:

Bit of a Pollyanna. Yeah things have changed. You need, NEED a degree, a proper visa, a teaching certificate. The cops and TCT are all over this stuff. TAXES... If you think you're going to front up and have a go, maybe an agency is perfect for you.

A Pollyanna?  Hmm.  That was a quick judgement.  I'm wanting to be as realistic as possible, that is why I sought advice here.  Of course things have changed in 20 years, again, that's why I'm asking.  

 

On 9/27/2017 at 5:48 AM, ozmeldo said:

You'llget a 90 day B visa which I'm sure they'll make you pay for.

A TR can and should be converted to B

 

If you need to leave the country that will cost so much you'll lose money workingat what agencies pay.

 

Don't give them your passport that way they can't process a waiver. On the appointed day just go with them to CW.

Gee, thanks for the advice on the visa process.  Why, this Pollyanna just wouldn't know where to look for such hard to find information.   My question wasn't about visas.  My question was a comparison of agency vs. direct hire.

 

On 9/27/2017 at 5:48 AM, ozmeldo said:

You've been warned

...and I'm not sure why.   I might just be a little more intelligent and capable of critical thinking than you take me for.

 

On 9/27/2017 at 5:48 AM, ozmeldo said:

PS no one, should be working in Bangkok for less than 36k rock bottom for new teachers with degrees.

I'm not teaching in Bangkok.  ....and, interestingly enough, I'm capable of doing salary research.  Again, that wasn't my question.

 

On 9/27/2017 at 5:48 AM, ozmeldo said:

 

No degree? You're gonna get scammed.

Now why would you assume no degree?  Goodness, you woke up on the wrong side of the bed today.

[Joosesis]

10 hours ago, zyphodb said:

Have a look on adjarn.com probably the best online resource for you....

There is nothing on ajarn for me, it tends to be very Bangkok centered.  I have done direct outreach to both schools and agencies where I want to teach.  I have heard back from one school and one agency.  I'm very appreciative of those who responded -- per request -- with pros and cons of both experiences.  I like to do my research before making decisions.

[allane]

There are plenty of jobs outside of Bangkok listed on ajarn.com, though the average salary tends to be lower. Look in the left-hand column. You may have to scroll down a bit to see the job listings. I think you can also search by province, though that is a bit tedious, as you have to search one province at a time. It would be better if you could search by region.

[Joosesis]

Thank you.  I am aware of how to use ajarn.com -- as a reminder, finding a job was not my original question.

[BuddyDean]

Agents may not be the oldest profession, just the second oldest.  Schools, that refuse to do direct hire could be receiving kickbacks from the agents.  These agents often lack the connections, funds, and expertise to ease your paperwork load.  However, it is dumped on them as part of the kickback system.  So basically, the whole system smells worse than a bag of rotten durian at your doorstep.  Compared to ten years ago, there are many more Filipinos, South Africans, and Eastern Europeans...most NNES, all willing to work for less.

[jenny2017]

Let's see.  

 

               The one:

 

       1.A 12 months- fully paid salary, with all holidays,.

    2. Work permit and visa ( even visa run to Laos paid by the employer).

    3. A doable teaching load.

    4. Thai social security with FULL coverage. ( after six months)

    5. Being treated as a human being.

    6. A job for many years in a nice atmosphere. 

    7. A pay raise when you're doing a good job. 

    8. A reasonable good salary. 

 

             The other:

 

       1. Perhaps a nine months contract.

       2. Work permit and the right visa not needed. ( deportation is not free either)

       3. 20 + contact hours.

       4. No insurance, and if so, one that might cover a little amount of money. Hospitals aren't cheap these days. 

       5. Being just a number in a system that doesn't care about you at all.

       6. Not being paid when you don't work.

       7. Second term jobless, because the agency has lost the contract. But they want to send you to Sakhon nowhere. 

      8. A salary that gets you on 20 something thousand when you do the math for one year.

 

      I've experienced both and didn't come up with any hearsay. Please think it through and decide yourself. 

 

  

Edited October 5, 2017 by jenny2017

[jenny2017]

On 9/26/2017 at 10:45 AM, Global Guy said:

Overall you really need to be in Thailand to get a teaching job. I tried the teaching gig in 2002 and while in Thailand, got a job in South Korea through a recruiter based in Thailand.

 

In fact, I worked as a teacher through an agency in Thailand too. The school subcontracted the teaching jobs to them and hired us. As others posted, they do pay on time. Other than having "lifers" in management, it wasn't an issue either way.

 

But this was 2002-2004, so I have no idea about now.

 

 

 

     Not much has changed from 2004 to now. The salaries at ordinary government schools didn't go up with the always skyrocketing prices for almost everything.

 

     You can be happy when you find a decent school that pays more than 30 k, but 25 K back in 2004 could buy you more than 40 K do now.

 

   Then the location. You'll have a hard time to survive on 30 K when working in Bangkok, even when you're single.

 

  Buying a car will always be a dream on such a "teacher's salary" at a government school and it's  a lot of fun to commute on an old scooter in the rainy season.

 

 

Edited October 5, 2017 by jenny2017

[pearciderman]

1 hour ago, jenny2017 said:

Buying a car will always be a dream on such a "teacher's salary" at a government school and it's  a lot of fun to commute on an old scooter in the rainy season.

 

I teach at a uni, so far less salary than an average school - I have a pick-up financed via the bank in my name.

[jenny2017]

5 minutes ago, pearciderman said:

 

Fair, but many direct hires are paid 12 months a year, including all holidays and school breaks.

 

   Many schools do pay the expenses for visa and work permit, which already shows how much you're liked.

 

   It usually takes up to six months until you get your card. Of course does that vary from employer to employer. 

Edited October 5, 2017 by jenny2017

[jenny2017]

4 minutes ago, pearciderman said:

 

I teach at a uni, so far less salary than an average school - I have a pick-up financed via the bank in my name.

 

    Congrats. But not so many teachers at government schools are having a car. And I guess it's not that easy for foreigners to get a car financed.

 

   Would you mind telling us how you did that, please? 

[pearciderman]

9 minutes ago, jenny2017 said:

It usually takes up to six months until you get your card. Of course does that vary from employer to employer. 

 

Do not confuse getting your card with when your cover begins.

[pearciderman]

6 minutes ago, jenny2017 said:

 

    Congrats. But not so many teachers at government schools are having a car. And I guess it's not that easy for foreigners to get a car financed.

 

   Would you mind telling us how you did that, please? 

 

I went to the dealership, picked a vehicle, paid a deposit, then they arranged the finance via Krungthai.

[jenny2017]

1 minute ago, pearciderman said:

 

I went to the dealership, picked a vehicle, paid a deposit, then they arranged the finance via Krungthai.

And they did that without the help and guarantee of a third person who gave his, or her name for you?

 

   Thanks  alot for sharing.

[saakura]

47 minutes ago, pearciderman said:

 

I teach at a uni, so far less salary than an average school - I have a pick-up financed via the bank in my name.

A University Professor earns less than a rural school teacher? I dont beleive it.