deported because of basking..

[lkv]

1 minute ago, Aditi Sharma said:

Manifest?

API (Advance Passenger Information) 

[007 RED]

Just now, visarunner said:

You will know when you plan to check in for a flight to Thailand. The passenger list is being check beforehand via online database from Immigration. Forgot what they called the system. 

 

The system is called Advance Passenger Information System (APIS).  Airlines are required to supply basic passenger information to the Thai Government before allowing a passenger to board the plane.  The information is feed into the Immigration System Databases which then compares the passenger information with data they hold....  The airline gets a feedback code which indicates OK to board or deny boarding.  The airline have no indication as to reason why boarding should be denied.

[Aditi Sharma]

4 minutes ago, 007 RED said:

The system is called Advance Passenger Information System (APIS).  Airlines are required to supply basic passenger information to the Thai Government before allowing a passenger to board the plane.  The information is feed into the Immigration System Databases which then compares the passenger information with data they hold....  The airline gets a feedback code which indicates OK to board or deny boarding.  The airline have no indication as to reason why boarding should be denied.

Somebody here said that getting a visa is no guarantee that you will be let in by immigration as consulates/embassies and the immigration come under different ministries. So if APIS has got the OK from immigration before you board your flight, can you assume that there will be no problems at the immigration desk upon landing in Thailand? 

Edited September 27, 2017 by Aditi Sharma
correction

[007 RED]

1 minute ago, Aditi Sharma said:

Somebody here said that getting a visa is no guarantee that you will be let in by immigration as consulates/embassies and the immigration come under different ministries. So APIS has got the OK from immigration, can one assume that there will be no problems at the immigration desk upon landing in Thailand? 

FYI - that someone was me.

 

In basic essence, if the feedback code indicates the airline is OK to board the passenger, then the passenger should be OK to enter Thailand.  That said, you must remember that having a visa, or boarding clearance, is no guarantee that you will be allowed to enter Thailand.  The decision to admit you is made by the IO at the point of entry.  For example, he/she could refuse entry if you were unable to show that you could reasonably support your stay - hence the discussion regarding having 20K in your pocket.

[Aditi Sharma]

Ideally Thai immigration should sit at the departure airport so that one is not hassled on arriving in Thailand, one can fly peacefully. 

[lkv]

Having googled a few things about APIS, I am unsure it works as described i.e realtime with ok codes. As far as I am aware, it's a list for the Immigration at destination to know who is coming rather than the airline to deny boarding.

 

The only exception seems to be flights to the US, where it appears to happen realtime and people can get denied boarding.

 

Maybe somebody can provide some links about how APIS works for Thailand?

Edited September 27, 2017 by lkv

[Aditi Sharma]

3 minutes ago, lkv said:

Having googled a few things about APIS, I am unsure it works as described i.e realtime with ok codes. As far as I am aware, it's a list for the Immigration at destination to know who is coming rather than the airline to deny boarding.

 

The only exception seems to be flights to the US, where it appears to happen realtime and people can get denied boarding.

 

Maybe somebody can provide some links about how APIS works for Thailand?

Why do the immigration need to know who was coming? I dont get it.

[007 RED]

1 minute ago, Aditi Sharma said:

Why do the immigration need to know who was coming? I dont get it.

If they have been banned for whatever reason it is better to stop them flying rather than get to their destination an dbe sent back.

[Aditi Sharma]

1 minute ago, 007 RED said:

If they have been banned for whatever reason it is better to stop them flying rather than get to their destination an dbe sent back.

And by extension they could do a lot more than that. But I think ikv disagrees.

[lkv]

6 minutes ago, Aditi Sharma said:

And by extension they could do a lot more than that. But I think ikv disagrees.

I believe that most information required by API is provided by the passenger at checkin. When checkin finishes, the airline forwards the complete API. When the passenger arrives into Thailand, the IO swipes the passport and then a ban comes up or not.

So in my opinion I don't believe it happens realtime with ok codes, with the exception of the US.

 

I stand to be corrected.

[Aditi Sharma]

4 minutes ago, lkv said:

I believe that most information required by API is provided by the passenger at checkin. When checkin finishes, the airline forwards the complete API. When the passenger arrives into Thailand, the IO swipes the passport and then a ban comes up or not.

So in my opinion I don't believe it happens realtime with ok codes, with the exception of the US.

 

I stand to be corrected.

Good on you!

[007 RED]

36 minutes ago, lkv said:

I believe that most information required by API is provided by the passenger at checkin. When checkin finishes, the airline forwards the complete API. When the passenger arrives into Thailand, the IO swipes the passport and then a ban comes up or not.

So in my opinion I don't believe it happens realtime with ok codes, with the exception of the US.

 

I stand to be corrected.

FYI - In the aftermath of 911,  I worked for a good number of years on the development of an eBoarder system which eventually came to be known as APIS.  I also assisted with the installation of the system in a number of countries so can say with some confidence that I have a very good insight into how the system works.

 

Many countries around the world (including Thailand) now require inbound international airlines to provide basic passenger data prior to the individual boarding the flight.  The basic data comprises:  Passport Number; Country Code; Gender; Date of Birth; First and Family Names.  This information is normally collected during online booking, or online check in or at check in.   The possible passenger information is sent by the airline normally 24 hours before departure of the flight, but the system will allow the airline to send individual passenger data as little as one our before boarding in order to cater for last minute bookings.

 

When the passenger data arrives at APIS server in Thailand it compares that data with that already held on the immigration database.  The process only takes a few seconds and it automatically feeds back a code to the airline indicating OK to board or deny boarding.  In the case of a deny boarding code the system does not give the airline any specific reason why boarding should be denied.

 

It should be remembered that when making the comparison, the APIS relies on the immigration database being accurate and up to date.  What's that old saying in the IT world -  Garbage in = Garbage out.

 

Airlines will not allow a passenger to board if they receive a deny boarding code as they will bear the cost of having to return the passenger plus they will incur a very substantial fine.

 

As well as comparing passenger data with that held by immigration it also compares it with the customs system in case they may know of any reason why the passenger should not enter.  The system does not stop there, it also notifies the country of departure law enforcement agencies about the passengers pending departure in case they may have a reason why the person should not travel.

 

FYI - there have been recent posts on this forum where someone was denied boarding.

 

Edited September 27, 2017 by 007 RED
Typo error

[holy cow cm]

On ‎9‎/‎26‎/‎2017 at 3:00 PM, muluc said:

Hello,

 

at the beginning of may this year i played some music at the market in ranong, than the immigration police came and told me i was not allowed to do that on a tourist visa,

 

they arrested me, i had to pay a fine of 10.000 baht and finally the deported me to germany...

 

I have a stamp in my passport underneath teh cancelt visa that a payed this fine to the police, but they gave me no ban to come to thailan again on the form which i got from the immigration..

 

mm question now is, if it is possibel to get a new visa or if there is a possiblity that i  blacklisted now..

 

thanks

Do you mean playing and sitting by yourself? or was it play with your guitar case open? or was it on stage? Very curious as it is hard to believe that playing music is a crime. And who was the immigration officer, man or woman, old or young?  

[007 RED]

2 minutes ago, holy cow cm said:

Do you mean playing and sitting by yourself? or was it play with your guitar case open? or was it on stage? Very curious as it is hard to believe that playing music is a crime. And who was the immigration officer, man or woman, old or young?  

The OP originally stated that he was Basking.... but we think this was a typo... and he actually meant Busking.... Busking would indicate that he was collecting donations of some description.... which according to Thai Law meant that he was working without a permit.

[holy cow cm]

8 minutes ago, 007 RED said:

The OP originally stated that he was Basking.... but we think this was a typo... and he actually meant Busking.... Busking would indicate that he was collecting donations of some description.... which according to Thai Law meant that he was working without a permit.

Understand. Busking is rather annoying. Makes sense now.

[muluc]

...my question now is, if i get any problems entering another country like vietnam or india with this stamp in my passport...

[ubonjoe]

1 minute ago, muluc said:

.my question now is, if i get any problems entering another country like vietnam or india with this stamp in my passport...

You might if they notice it and understand what it is.

Best solution is to get a new passport..

[anon789561]

5 minutes ago, muluc said:

...my question now is, if i get any problems entering another country like vietnam or india with this stamp in my passport...

no. you will be fine. . . . but best do as UJ says just in case

Edited October 2, 2017 by Happy enough
add another point

[Aditi Sharma]

1 hour ago, Happy enough said:

no. you will be fine. . . . but best do as UJ says just in case

 

In India immigration asks me what I do for a living, why I am going to Thailand on a tourist visa, etc, that kind of questions. Surely they will ask you what is this unusual shit and if you tell them it is a stamp made at the land border as you were travelling or some crap they'd love they heard it from you. 

Edited October 2, 2017 by Aditi Sharma
edit

[muluc]

3 hours ago, Aditi Sharma said:

 

In India immigration asks me what I do for a living, why I am going to Thailand on a tourist visa, etc, that kind of questions. Surely they will ask you what is this unusual shit and if you tell them it is a stamp made at the land border as you were travelling or some crap they'd love they heard it from you. 

 

...yeah, fortunately they cannot read thai, so i can tell em a story that i just extended my visa...

[muluc]

On 26.9.2017 at 3:19 PM, Aditi Sharma said:

Do they lock up women separately at the immigration detention centre (IDC)? How long can they hold you in there? Good God, it seems you can be in there for as long as 5 years!!! So one is basically an undertrial right? How can The Girl inform the South African embassy when she is sent there - God Forbid. And what can the embassy do to get her out of there?

Sorry I couldnt help relating this to this other story on the forum:  Overstay: Flight booked but not enough money to pay fine.

...the conditions in the IDC bangkok are terrible, there are 80 to 100 people in one room, only one toilet for everybody, only a small space with a blanket on the floor, there is neon light night and day, people from all over the world for different reasons, some are physically or mentally sick if somebody shows resistance they take him to the ''re education cell'  for a month, a small room where nobody knows what is going on there,  some stay there for years or even die because they only let you go if you can pay the ticket and a deportation fee by yourself, the embassies don't give you a cent, they only hlep to find people who can give you money for the ticket, the food is very bad, a bad quality of boiled rice which a kind of tastless cucumber sauce, there is a stict hierarchy amongst old and new inmates, in this place were two inmates who collabroted with the police, you have to bribe them to go to the atm and to the ticket bureau downstairs with 1000 baht, 500 for the police, 500 for the inmate, who hopes to get the fee of his ticket together, this is the fasted way to get out of this terrible place because if it is done the official way by the embassies, it might take several weeks,  

if you have the money together (i happened to get some from an old friend), you can buy a ticket downstairs, but only to the country of your origin and not every airline is willing to take deportees..

 

...at the evening before the flight they drove me in a barred police truck to the airport and i stood there alone the whole night before the entrance,  without anybody to bring me water or something...

 

..finally at morning time a guy took me to the check in and than to the immigration department in the cellar wher i got this stamp in my passport...

 

..all together it is an act against human dignity that everybody who is there because of different reason ( i think mainly there are overstayers) is processed the same inhuman way by the authorities of a country which is so proud about their 'tradition'...

Edited October 2, 2017 by muluc

[FritsSikkink]

On ‎02‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 7:44 PM, muluc said:

...the conditions in the IDC bangkok are terrible, there are 80 to 100 people in one room, only one toilet for everybody, only a small space with a blanket on the floor, there is neon light night and day, people from all over the world for different reasons, some are physically or mentally sick if somebody shows resistance they take him to the ''re education cell'  for a month, a small room where nobody knows what is going on there,  some stay there for years or even die because they only let you go if you can pay the ticket and a deportation fee by yourself, the embassies don't give you a cent, they only hlep to find people who can give you money for the ticket, the food is very bad, a bad quality of boiled rice which a kind of tastless cucumber sauce, there is a stict hierarchy amongst old and new inmates, in this place were two inmates who collabroted with the police, you have to bribe them to go to the atm and to the ticket bureau downstairs with 1000 baht, 500 for the police, 500 for the inmate, who hopes to get the fee of his ticket together, this is the fasted way to get out of this terrible place because if it is done the official way by the embassies, it might take several weeks,  

if you have the money together (i happened to get some from an old friend), you can buy a ticket downstairs, but only to the country of your origin and not every airline is willing to take deportees..

 

...at the evening before the flight they drove me in a barred police truck to the airport and i stood there alone the whole night before the entrance,  without anybody to bring me water or something...

 

..finally at morning time a guy took me to the check in and than to the immigration department in the cellar wher i got this stamp in my passport...

 

..all together it is an act against human dignity that everybody who is there because of different reason ( i think mainly there are overstayers) is processed the same inhuman way by the authorities of a country which is so proud about their 'tradition'...

So next time respect the law and don't work without a work permit.

[Aditi Sharma]

24 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

So next time respect the law and don't work without a work permit.

Why is working without a work permit a crime? It is not like stealing, is it? You get paid for the work you do, dont you? 

[BritTim]

4 minutes ago, Aditi Sharma said:

Why is working without a work permit a crime? It is not like stealing, is it? You get paid for the work you do, dont you? 

This could start a major argument that the moderators are not going to like! I personally do not see working without a work permit as being a serious offense. However, the following arguments are valid

• Working (cheaply) without a work permit could be depriving a local of a job
• When a guest in a country, you have an obligation to follow their laws, whether you agree with them or not. In Saudi Arabia, you may consider a glass of wine with dinner to be perfectly normal. It would be unwise to be seen doing it in public. If you do, and they lock you up, too bad

[Tanoshi]

4 minutes ago, Aditi Sharma said:

Why is working without a work permit a crime? It is not like stealing, is it? You get paid for the work you do, dont you? 

Thailand protects the jobs of it's own nationals.

 

Foreigners (aliens) are not allowed to work unless granted a work permit.

Immigration Act:

Section 37 : An alien having received a temporary entry permit into the Kingdom must comply with the
following :
1. Shall not engage in the occupation or temporary or employment unless authorized by the
Director General. or competent official deputized by the Director General . If , in any case , there is a law
concerning alien employment provided hereafter , the granting of work privileges must comply with the
law concerned.

[mduras01]

Whatever you do, don’t show up with your guitar


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[Aditi Sharma]

2 minutes ago, BritTim said:

This could start a major argument that the moderators are not going to like! I personally do not see working without a work permit as being a serious offense. However, the following arguments are valid

• Working (cheaply) without a work permit could be depriving a local of a job
• When a guest in a country, you have an obligation to follow their laws, whether you agree with them or not. In Saudi Arabia, you may consider a glass of wine with dinner to be perfectly normal. It would be unwise to be seen doing it in public. If you do, and they lock you up, too bad

Intention was purely academic, not to be inflammatory. 

[jeab1980]

Quite simple really. Thai law states to work you must have a WP. Attached to this is jobs aliens are not allowed to do. If you Work without a WP and  get caught tough tities. Take the punishment. It really is that simple

[anon789561]

4 minutes ago, jeab1980 said:

Quite simple really. Thai law states to work you must have a WP. Attached to this is jobs aliens are not allowed to do. If you Work without a WP and  get caught tough tities. Take the punishment. It really is that simple

it's not actually as simple as that. there are people with foreign companies that run there business from thailand that are allowed to do so as long as they are paying tax on income coming in to thailand. it's a grey area but certainly not punishable in anyway as long as the tax is paid. i know a few people been doing that for nearly 20 years and the labour department know. it's allowed

[craigt3365]

2 minutes ago, Happy enough said:

it's not actually as simple as that. there are people with foreign companies that run there business from thailand that are allowed to do so as long as they are paying tax on income coming in to thailand. it's a grey area but certainly not punishable in anyway as long as the tax is paid. i know a few people been doing that for nearly 20 years and the labour department know. it's allowed

A work permit to play music is only offered for a specific venue.  You can't get a work permit that allows you to play music anywhere you like.  It's just the way it is.