How to get Thai citizenship with nothing?

[NotReallyThai]

Hi, I am half Thai, born in New Zealand. My mother who is from Thailand, moved to New Zealand and became a NZ citizen about 25+ years ago. In doing this she threw away all evidence of being Thai (ID card and passport). My aunty sold the old house so my mum's name got removed from the tabien baan. Now I believe there's no evidence that my mother even existed. I would like to get my Thai passport, but I believe I can't do this without my mum's ID. 

Does anyone have any idea how to go about this? Thanks for any input. 

[Maestro]

Your best place to start is the district office where your mother's birth was registered. Your aunt (your mother's sister) should be able to identify this district office and to testify regarding your decendence. The district office will advise you regarding further steps that may be necessary for you to get your Thai ID card, whereupon you can be entered on a house registration book or get your own if you own a residential property in Thailand. Subsequently, you can apply for your Thai passport.

[ubonjoe]

You mother's birth is registered at the Amphoe where she is born. Your aunt might be able to get a copy of the your mother's birth registration there but it would be best is she could get it done. It would be best if you mother was to be registered in a house book and then a ID card.

After getting proof of your mother's Thai nationality a Thai birth certificate will have to be applied for at the Thai embassy in Wellington.

Info for the birth resistration/birth certificiate is here in Thai. http://www.thaiembassy.org/wellington/th/services/2962/36202-การจดทะเบียนเกิดบุตร-(ขอสูติบัตรไทย).html

A Thai birth certificate issued by a embassy in the country you were born is the only way to prove you are Thai from birth.

After you get the birth certificate you would then need to be registered in tabien ban and then you can get Thai ID card need to apply for a passport.

[dvanmark]

I’m half Thai, half American and I just got my Thai citizenship a few years ago. As others have said, it really would be best if your mom could get her ID card and house registration first before you attempt to get yours. It should be relatively easy for her to do that. After she does, you can then start your process. Please be aware that it may be required to have a DNA test performed on you and her to confirm that you are her child. The government office didn’t care what my birth certificate said, but since I was in my late 20’s at the time, and didn’t speak much Thai at all, they required the DNA test, which had to be done at a public hospital, which took about 2 months to get the results (they wouldn’t accept results from a private hospital which would have taken days). Once I had my DNA test in hand, and my mother was there with her documents in hand, it only took a couple hours of waiting in the district office and I was able to walk out with my own house registration book and ID card. With that, it only took me 2 more days to get my Thai passport.

 

When going through the process, try to stay calm. The government workers I had to deal with were mostly incompetent and it seemed like common sense was an abstract idea to them... they just follow their procedures no matter how inconsequential it may seem to you.

[ubonjoe]

9 minutes ago, dvanmark said:

The government office didn’t care what my birth certificate said,

But you did have a Thai birth certificate?

They were just putting you through the wringer by wanting the DNA test if you had a Thai birth certificate to get a Thai ID number and be registered in a house book.

[QuantumMech]

I posted about my experience with the process at

 

[portroyal]

As far as I know, thai ID must be claimed before you are 21 years old, if you are male

[ubonjoe]

1 minute ago, portroyal said:

As far as I know, thai ID must be claimed before you are 21 years old, if you are male

There is no such requirement. Many men have established their Thai nationality well beyond the age of 21.

[Saan]

NZ immigration should have Thai visas from your mother when she moved to NZ to get passport, visas, etc .

[Maestro]

49 minutes ago, Saan said:

NZ immigration should have Thai visas from your mother when she moved to NZ to get passport, visas, etc .

 

Copies of those visas wil not help the OP.

[NotReallyThai]

I would like to emphasise the fact that my mum doesn't have any sort of documents at all. Not registered to a house, no old ID or passport, no birth certificate. I know the process for normal cases, but my case is not like that. It seems very hard to get a new ID for my mum. She came over for a holiday and wasn't able to do it this time round. Any chance I could create a new one on behalf of her? And is it possible to do it at another Amphoe office?

[NotReallyThai]

On 29/09/2017 at 6:38 PM, QuantumMech said:

I posted about my experience with the process at

 

Thank you very much for that. That seems pretty much like my situation. How did your mum get her ID at the office? Did they need any proof of who she was? How did they find her documents? My Amphoe office wasn't very helpful at all. They just said it would be hard. Didn't even advise on how to go about it. Is it possible that they didn't keep any records and just threw the old documents out?

[NotReallyThai]

21 hours ago, Saan said:

NZ immigration should have Thai visas from your mother when she moved to NZ to get passport, visas, etc .

That's a really good idea. But do you think they would still have those records and if they do will they release it?

[ubonjoe]

35 minutes ago, NotReallyThai said:

I would like to emphasise the fact that my mum doesn't have any sort of documents at all. Not registered to a house, no old ID or passport, no birth certificate. I know the process for normal cases, but my case is not like that. It seems very hard to get a new ID for my mum. She came over for a holiday and wasn't able to do it this time round. Any chance I could create a new one on behalf of her? And is it possible to do it at another Amphoe office?

It would have to be done at the Amphoe where her birth was registered or where the house book she had was issued.

They would have to go through records that are many years old. People have had to do it themselves to find the records.

I suspect that is why your mother was not able to get it done.

She might be able to do a power of attorney at the embassy allowing you do it.

[NotReallyThai]

Is it possible they would have thrown out the records? If so, what is possible then? Another thought, is how does my mum prove who she is?

[ubonjoe]

5 minutes ago, NotReallyThai said:

Is it possible they would have thrown out the records? If so, what is possible then? Another thought, is how does my mum prove who she is?

The one option after the records are not found is a DNA test compared to a family member such as your aunt to prove she is Thai by birth.

People have found records that were several decades old. The starting point is a leger where they entered the registrations done during a period of time that has the registration number. That helps to find the records in their archives.

[blackcab]

14 hours ago, NotReallyThai said:

My Amphoe office wasn't very helpful at all. They just said it would be hard. Didn't even advise on how to go about it.

 

I suggest you go back and ask the right questions. Hard does not mean impossible.

 

Keep asking until you get answers.

[Badbanker]

There is a record of your mothers birth at the Amphur and, as such her Thai nationality is still in existence.

 

You will need to present this to the Thai embassy in NZ and after several months they will issue you an temporary ID and Thai passport!

 

I have dealt with several cases like this and it is not very difficult to retrieve your Thai nationality.

 

Will PM you and start the process!

[QuantumMech]

19 hours ago, NotReallyThai said:

Thank you very much for that. That seems pretty much like my situation. How did your mum get her ID at the office? Did they need any proof of who she was? How did they find her documents? My Amphoe office wasn't very helpful at all. They just said it would be hard. Didn't even advise on how to go about it. Is it possible that they didn't keep any records and just threw the old documents out?

My mom's info was already in the computer system (this was at the Phanom Sarakham, Chachoengsao amphoe office... I don't know if other amphoes are as up-to-date); they asked for her name, date of birth, parents names, and her address (in Thailand) and were able to find her info. My mom didn't actually remember her old address, and for reasons that are unclear to both me and my mom, her birth year according to the Thai records doesn't match her US records, so she didn't give the right birth date. But despite that, they were able to find her info in about 5 minutes—I was impressed.

 

As for proving that she was the person they found in the computer, they just needed someone to vouch for her (my mom's cousin's daughter had driven us to the amphoe office, so she was already there and was able to vouch for my mom). The village chief (phu yai ban) also had to come by, although he had never met my mom, so I'm not sure what info he was able to provide. I suppose it's just a formality. (But coincidentally, the village chief is the son of my mom's childhood friend).

 

You mention that your mom is no longer on a tabien baan, but even so, if she used to be on one, it seems like they should be able to find her info pretty easily. My understanding is that people who are removed from a tabien baan and aren't moved to another one get put on the "central registration" list (ทะเบียนกลาง); they aren't completely deleted from the system. In my mom's case, the address where she's registered no longer actually exists—the house was demolished over a decade ago. But I guess nobody notified the amphoe about it, so there's still an active house registration, and my mom was still on it (and now I'm on it too).

 

Was the last address where your mom was registered in the same amphoe where her birth was registered? I agree with others that her birth amphoe seems like the best place to start, but if you don't have any luck there, and her last registration was at a different amphoe, maybe you could try that amphoe.

 

Good luck!

[QuantumMech]

20 hours ago, NotReallyThai said:

My Amphoe office wasn't very helpful at all. They just said it would be hard. Didn't even advise on how to go about it.

 

What did you/your mom say? Perhaps try saying that she lost her ID card and needs a new one, and she doesn't remember her ID number either.

 

Also, the Thai Consulate in Los Angeles has a page (in Thai) about getting moved to the "central registration" that I mentioned earlier, and how to get moved back to a normal registration: http://www.thaiconsulatela.org/content_detail.aspx?content_id=71. From what you've said, it does sound likely that your mom's been moved to the central registration. I don't know if that prevents you from getting your Thai citizenship (doesn't seem like it would), but the author of that page recommends that anyone who got moved to central registration move back to a regular tabien baan ASAP (or if they don't have any place where they can get registered, there's a special register for citizens who live outside of Thailand).

[KonaRain]

Sheesh! Good luck!

Aloha 

[Badbanker]

All Thai people born in the last 75 or so year have a registry in the central citizenship computer, that can be accessed on line from all government offices anywhere in Thailand. Its called the tabian rat ทะเบียนราษฎร์ in Thai.  

 

I have seen people older than 100 registered there, so it will get 99% of people who have Thai nationality.

 

You just need to go to the district office near where your parent was born and allow the required investigation to be undertaken to verify that you are the legitimate child of this person, to be successful in recovering your Thai nationality.

 

 

[BritTim]

3 hours ago, QuantumMech said:

... if they don't have any place where they can get registered, there's a special register for citizens who live outside of Thailand

 

Sorry for the off topic post, but this raises an interesting question. If one is on the 'special register' for people living outside Thailand, is this an absolute protection against being required to attend the ballot for military service? Usually, as I understand it, you are required to attend in the province where you are deemed resident. It would seem this would be impossible if you were registered as resident abroad. If so, those born in Thailand who are worried about the draft could get themselves moved to the special register, even if they spend most of their time in Thailand, right?

[samran]

15 hours ago, Badbanker said:

All Thai people born in the last 75 or so year have a registry in the central citizenship computer, that can be accessed on line from all government offices anywhere in Thailand. Its called the tabian rat ทะเบียนราษฎร์ in Thai.  

 

I have seen people older than 100 registered there, so it will get 99% of people who have Thai nationality.

 

You just need to go to the district office near where your parent was born and allow the required investigation to be undertaken to verify that you are the legitimate child of this person, to be successful in recovering your Thai nationality.

 

 

Indeed it is doable.

 

Both my mother and my aunt have managed to recover their records having lived in Australia for 40+ years. In my aunts case she had basically had to pay someone at the ampur she was born at to dig through the old paper records. Off the back of that she could get her ID card back. 

 

My my mother fortunately had some old ID from the early 70s which was enough for someone to find the records, though she had to first go to the central registry office to get the ball rolling. 

[NotReallyThai]

Thank you very much for all the replies. You all have given me hope that this is possible. I guess I'm gonna have to make a lot of phone calls to try organise things. It's gonna be difficult with the amphoe office not open on weekends and my mum back in New Zealand. Just gotta persevere.

[BritTim]

On 9/30/2017 at 7:52 PM, NotReallyThai said:

Is it possible they would have thrown out the records? If so, what is possible then? Another thought, is how does my mum prove who she is?

There is no way those kinds of records would have been thrown out, except as a result of a very unlikely accident. What is realistic is that they might have been destroyed in a fire or flood.