Trump says 'only one thing will work' with North Korea

[Kieran00001]

1 minute ago, LannaGuy said:

 

Agreed and you don't observe NK making the first move?  they push that boundary daily?  They have said they will destroy USA  bla,bla,bla

 

Draw the red line - Obama drew it then wet his pants, draw it and enforce it through UN

 

They have both said they will destroy each other, this has been going on since the 50's, there was a time when the US had a nuke on a plane ready to drop!  And thankfully both sides have been man enough to allow the other to cross their red lines, backing out of killing a great number of people is not wetting your pants unless you have genocidal thoughts.

[LannaGuy]

2 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

They have both said they will destroy each other, this has been going on since the 50's, there was a time when the US had a nuke on a plane ready to drop!  And thankfully both sides have been man enough to allow the other to cross their red lines, backing out of killing a great number of people is not wetting your pants unless you have genocidal thoughts.

 

 Kieran don't put red lines down if you don't have the balls to enforce them.  NK will be gone. They may have 'both said' but only one has the power and if Dim KIm stops his threats I'm sure nothing will happen but if he doesn't... then get it over with.

[BuaBS]

It's high time the US gets hit on their own soil when they attack yet another foreign country like they did in the last 60 years or so.

[baboon]

5 minutes ago, LannaGuy said:

 

Last time I looked no country was firing missiles over NK as they have done over Japan. They are the aggressor. 

But you see, I feel your comparison is fallacious. Nazi Germany was an expansionist power. (North) Korea is not. They are not threatening to March into and occupy foreign countries. 

[LannaGuy]

Just now, baboon said:

But you see, I feel your comparison is fallacious. Nazi Germany was an expansionist power. (North) Korea is not. They are not threatening to March into and occupy foreign countries. 

 

That is true and they were German not North Korean, and they spoke different languages.. need I go on?  the point is VALID.  Appeasement does not work with dictators who threaten other countries. Please don't divert into semantics as the situations are different but the underlying point I made was fair. Try and give Kimmy   money, toys or whatever will not work.

 

He is suppressing his people and you defend him? I expect that of some of the other right winger/junta lovers on here but not you baboon.

[Kieran00001]

Just now, LannaGuy said:

 

 Kieran don't put red lines down if you don't have the balls to enforce them.  NK will be gone. They may have 'both said' but only one has the power and if Dim KIm stops his threats I'm sure nothing will happen but if he doesn't... then get it over with.

 

The "balls" it takes is being willing to cause enormous suffering, this is not a game, they are real people who are already suffering a terrible regime, any real man would want to avoid killing people, getting it over with will not be a simple thing, it could drag on for years and pull in several countries, South Korea would almost certainly be hit, and it is very likely that Japan would, even possibly now the US, and not by regular weapons, by biological and chemical weapons.  The best option is always to do everything to avoid war.

[LannaGuy]

Just now, Kieran00001 said:

 

The "balls" it takes is being willing to cause enormous suffering, this is not a game, they are real people who are already suffering a terrible regime, any real man would want to avoid killing people, getting it over with will not be a simple thing, it could drag on for years and pull in several countries, South Korea would almost certainly be hit, and it is very likely that Japan would, even possibly now the US, and not by regular weapons, by biological and chemical weapons.  The best option is always to do everything to avoid war.

 

Well we differ. The Office of President was terribly hurt by Obama's weakness and we are now paying the consequences with a megalomaniac in the White House who might, actually, do what should have been done to free those people many year ago.

 

As my old Chief Exec used to say  "Say what you are going to do and DO what you say"

[Golgota]

As Kim said :

Nukes don't kill people, people kill people. Why should i have my nukes removed from me? I am a responsible Nuke owner, I have nukes for my protection, I keep my nukes locked in a safe.

[baboon]

3 minutes ago, LannaGuy said:

 

That is true and they were German not North Korean, and they spoke different languages.. need I go on?  the point is VALID.  Appeasement does not work with dictators who threaten other countries. Please don't divert into semantics as the situations are different but the underlying point I made was fair. Try and give Kimmy   money, toys or whatever will not work.

 

He is suppressing his people and you defend him? I expect that of some of the other right winger/junta lovers on here but not you baboon.

They also invaded, occupied other countries and began a program of genocide again minorities. Koreans stick to their own peninsula. This is far from being semantics.

As for what goes on inside the country, I would be more than delighted to talk to you all day about it as I am fascinated by the place, but that would be better left to PMs.

[RichardColeman]

[terryw]

At some point in the future the South Koreans will have to accept that there is only one solution to the North Korea problem.

 

When that happens the shooting war will begin.

[harada]

War is big business and Trump is a businessman pretending to be a president.

[Kieran00001]

36 minutes ago, LannaGuy said:

 

Well we differ. The Office of President was terribly hurt by Obama's weakness and we are now paying the consequences with a megalomaniac in the White House who might, actually, do what should have been done to free those people many year ago.

 

As my old Chief Exec used to say  "Say what you are going to do and DO what you say"

 

Yeah, we seem to differ in that I am considering actual people's lives whereas you seem to be considering a notion of freedom and neglecting all the surrounding people's lives for the sake of that notion.

[owl sees all]

1 hour ago, baboon said:

The world also cannot have nations armed to the teeth throwing their weight around and holding other nations to standards they have no intention of keeping to themselves. 

Israel!?

[Grouse]

How about this:

 

I doubt the NK artillery has a range of more than, say, 100 miles

 

Move 25M people south over say a year

 

Inform China and Russia what the plan is.

 

Demolish all nuclear facilities and weaponry in NK using conventional weapons such as cruise missiles.

 

Reunite NK and SK

 

USA then moves out of SK and Japan

[baboon]

1 minute ago, owl sees all said:

Israel!?

I'm not going there, figuratively or otherwise...

[FritsSikkink]

 Now one for the gun lovers:

Edited October 8, 2017 by FritsSikkink

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, baboon said:

Signed it and withdrew, as was their right under the terms of the treaty.

The world also cannot have nations armed to the teeth throwing their weight around and holding other nations to standards they have no intention of keeping to themselves. 

Baboon we get your point. 

 

However NK is not exactly pacifist now is it? Their stated aim is to reunite Korea under the Kim dynasty for at least another 70 years. They also want the USA out of the South. I would also like a United Korea and no American forces on the peninsula. But I don't want Korea with a nuclear arsenal. Nor do I want the North's totalitarian regime forced on the South.

 

So, protect the South as far as possible, strike hard and then leave.

[boomerangutang]

55 minutes ago, BuaBS said:

It's high time the US gets hit on their own soil when they attack yet another foreign country like they did in the last 60 years or so.

Yes, the US was hit by a sneak attack in 1941 at Pearl Harbor. That was 76 yrs ago. It was also hit in 2001 in NYC, Wash. DC. and PA, by the 9-11 bombers.  The US is lucky to have large oceans on both sides - and state-of-the-art defense systems.  It also helps to have friends like the Canadians watching a large swath of territory to the north.

 

50 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

The "balls" it takes is being willing to cause enormous suffering, this is not a game, they are real people who are already suffering a terrible regime, any real man would want to avoid killing people, getting it over with will not be a simple thing, it could drag on for years and pull in several countries, South Korea would almost certainly be hit, and it is very likely that Japan would, even possibly now the US, and not by regular weapons, by biological and chemical weapons.  The best option is always to do everything to avoid war.

You're quite right - about avoiding war.  However, I think war is warranted sometimes.  For example, when China attacked Tibet in the 1950's, ....if Tibet was better armed and/or other countries came to Tibet's aid, then that would have had a different resolution,

 

When Poland and Czechoslovakia were attacked by Nazi Germany in 1939, it was right for other European countries to unite to push back against the Germans and Italians.  The alternative would have been to allow Germany to take over large parts of the world.   

 

In sum:  most of the time it's wrong to resort to war.  But there are other times when military action is justified.  Another example is taking back Kuwait from Iraqi aggression.  

 

Our species is far from perfect, and the ways we manifest is proof of how close to packs of hyenas we are mentally, as a species.

[Kieran00001]

10 minutes ago, Grouse said:

How about this:

 

I doubt the NK artillery has a range of more than, say, 100 miles

 

Move 25M people south over say a year

 

Inform China and Russia what the plan is.

 

Demolish all nuclear facilities and weaponry in NK using conventional weapons such as cruise missiles.

 

Reunite NK and SK

 

USA then moves out of SK and Japan

 

Sure, just move Seoul over the course of a year, thats realistic.

 

Another small problem with your idea, having your military bases destroyed doesn't change your allegiance, if we took out all of the US's bases would you expect the Americans to be happy to unite with China?  

 

 

 

 

 

[baboon]

1 minute ago, Grouse said:

Baboon we get your point. 

 

However NK is not exactly pacifist now is it? Their stated aim is to reunite Korea under the Kim dynasty for at least another 70 years. They also want the USA out of the South. I would also like a United Korea and no American forces on the peninsula. But I don't want Korea with a nuclear arsenal. Nor do I want the North's totalitarian regime forced on the South.

 

So, protect the South as far as possible, strike hard and then leave.

A legitimate point of view, but obviously not one I can agree with.

Protect the South as far as possible? Yees, but aren't they strong enough to protect themselves by now and if not, why not?

Strike hard and leave? Then who picks up the pieces?

[Golgota]

6 minutes ago, baboon said:

Strike hard and leave? Then who picks up the pieces?

As usual when US goes to war in modern history : not them

[ljd1308]

1 hour ago, boomerangutang said:

Except they don't have the capacity.  They may be able to hit Kodiak island if they're lucky, but all they'd kill there would be a couple of bears and a fisherman.

 

Remember the Iraqi wars?  Not long ago.  Saddam had the world believing he had the 3rd or 4th mightiest army in the world.  He had scuds.  He (supposedly) had a million man army.  He had hundreds of the latest/best Russian tanks.    He had an air force supplied by, and trained by the Russians.   

 

How effective was his military?  They were able to drive down to Kuwait City and take it over.  But a 200 man biker gang could have done that.  When the US-lead 'Coalition' went in there with guns blazing, the entire weight of the Iraqi Army couldn't do any more harm than your Aunt may with a sockful of nickels.  First their air force was knocked out without them firing a shot.  Then their hundreds of Russian tanks were knocked out like a carnival plastic duck shoot.  Not one bullet got within a quarter mile of any attacking US tanks.  

 

That sort of scenario is going to be on the minds of Pentagon brass.  Is the N.Korean military a paper tiger or a soggy paper tiger?  I think the world will find out before Thanksgiving.

There were 500 odd american deaths in the first gulf war..... How did they do that without getting bullets with a quarter mile?

And I find it really hard to believe that is the case....did the US military kill and confiscate all their weapons somehow without being within a quarter mile? It seems unlikely and more likely it is just something you made up.... Like the rest of the post.

 

 

[owl sees all]

Oh dear!

 

Where to start. I don't think all this chat between The Don and Fat boy has anything to do with NK's weapons in reality.

 

Firstly Kim no more represents the NK people than Ch-o-ch does for Thais.

 

Follow the money. The big problem for the US in this is NK's two neigbours; Russia, China and also Iran. They will not toe the line on US banking. The petrodollar is gradually being weakened and I think it will be gone by the end of next year. However The Don knows that a major conflict will allow trillions to be wasted on a war and reassert the petrodollar as the world currency. Well that's what he is being advised by his inner-circle; and just look who they are!!!

 

The real villans in all this are the FED, IMF, BiS, B-of-E and the Vatican.

Edited October 8, 2017 by owl sees all

[ljd1308]

1 hour ago, LannaGuy said:

 

Last time I looked no country was firing missiles over NK as they have done over Japan. They are the aggressor. 

That's because you don't know where to look.

 

There is a reason it is being reported so much that they shot weapons over Japan(rather than in space....above the world). It is so people like you jump on board and agree that NK should be destroyed.

 

Do you really think that the US(and other countries) have not had weapons flying over other countries? You just haven't heard about it for the most part because the US media don't want to draw your attention to it.

But if you really don't think it happens you are extremely naive....or stupid

[quadperfect]

2 hours ago, oxo1947 said:

1/ Where would you like to draw that red line

2/ How would you enforce it...

The line has been crossed. I dont think there will be another launch with out a retaliation.

The only way to enforce it is war.

War is a really bad thing, but i just dont see kim backing down. So its going to happen sooner or later i am afraid.

I dont think you get to trumps level with out some seriouse bulldozing to get there.

Kim is just going to be the one to realize it.

Humilating the usa is not going to happen on trumps watch.

Just my thoughts.

[Kieran00001]

3 minutes ago, boomerangutang said:

Yes, the US was hit by a sneak attack in 1941 at Pearl Harbor. That was 76 yrs ago. It was also hit in 2001 in NYC, Wash. DC. and PA, by the 9-11 bombers.  The US is lucky to have large oceans on both sides - and state-of-the-art defense systems.  It also helps to have friends like the Canadians watching a large swath of territory to the north.

 

You're quite right - about avoiding war.  However, I think war is warranted sometimes.  For example, when China attacked Tibet in the 1950's, ....if Tibet was better armed and/or other countries came to Tibet's aid, then that would have had a different resolution,

 

When Poland and Czechoslovakia were attacked by Nazi Germany in 1939, it was right for other European countries to unite to push back against the Germans and Italians.  The alternative would have been to allow Germany to take over large parts of the world.   

 

In sum:  most of the time it's wrong to resort to war.  But there are other times when military action is justified.  Another example is taking back Kuwait from Iraqi aggression.  

 

Our species is far from perfect, and the ways we manifest is proof of how close to packs of hyenas we are mentally, as a species.

 

You need to read up on the Tibet conflict, it had been peaceful until the US started arming them, then came the massacre, more arms would have just meant more loss of life.  That medieval religious dictatorship needed to end anyway, no more boiling people alive and chopping off toes and ears to nail on the palace gates under Chinese rule.

 

Also in the German conflict, if it had not been for the violence started by the soviets then Germany would have just continued their industrialisation of Poland and then slowly continued their expansion through industrialisation, their belief at the time was that if the population was over 50% German then it was Germany, that made it impossible to take over large parts of the world quickly, by fighting against this Nationalism and turning it into a war we saw their plans change and we lost tens of millions of people.  If you understand what happened then the war can only be justified by someone who thinks that ethnicities belong in certain places.

 

 Not sure about Kuwait, I just don't know what really went on.

 

Personally, I can't think of a war that would not have been better for having not happened.

[baboon]

4 minutes ago, ljd1308 said:

That's because you don't know where to look.

 

There is a reason it is being reported so much that they shot weapons over Japan(rather than in space....above the world). It is so people like you jump on board and agree that NK should be destroyed.

 

Do you really think that the US(and other countries) have not had weapons flying over other countries? You just haven't heard about it for the most part because the US media don't want to draw your attention to it.

But if you really don't think it happens you are extremely naive....or stupid

We can rule out stupid. LannaGuy is a fine man who wants the best for people. I don't agree with his assessment of the situation in Korea, but stupid he isn't. 

I agree with the rest of what you had to say, however. 

[Golgota]

1 minute ago, quadperfect said:

The line has been crossed. I dont think there will be another launch with out a retaliation.

The only way to enforce it is war.

War is a really bad thing, but i just dont see kim backing down. So its going to happen sooner or later i am afraid.

I dont think you get to trumps level with out some seriouse bulldozing to get there.

Kim is just going to be the one to realize it.

Humilating the usa is not going to happen on trumps watch.

Just my thoughts.

usa is humiliated on daily basis by Tangerine#45 since the election, Kim just want to keep is regime alive and knows perfectly his country is no match again USA. However the one who will be known as the warmonger will not be Kim.

[ljd1308]

2 minutes ago, baboon said:

We can rule out stupid. LannaGuy is a fine man who wants the best for people. I don't agree with his assessment of the situation in Korea, but stupid he isn't. 

I agree with the rest of what you had to say, however. 

Naive then.... But most people have heard of the Marshall Islands