Midweek rant: Banning smoking on the beaches descends into farce

[bangrak]

11 hours ago, retarius said:

I don't smoke so anything they can do to inconvenience smokers I am in favor of.

Hope you don't drink either, maybe you even don't eat? How can we dispose of your reliefs, in an ecological way, after you soon pass away? Please, give us an answer, right now, otherwise we might need to recycle you via animals feeding on rotten meat...

Edited October 11, 2017 by bangrak

[bangrak]

12 hours ago, Proud Father said:

Heavy Rains, Litter Strewn in a Concrete City, leads to waste washed up on local beaches.  Fine people on the beaches and on the streets,  Remove the plastic bags from circulation, Kenya did.  Do it here and force the 7/11 and market vendors to become responsible.   Ban smoking on the beach, Clean up the beach daily, tackle the sewer problem, tackle the cleaning up the sea, those beaches further down the coast that are still pristine won't be for long if there isn't a change in direction, and as far as Bangsaray goes to me it's in the needs immediate attention folder.   

Ban this, ban that... Wake up! It was just a crazy dream. Take it easy, relax, don't panick, but you're in Thailand now.

'Me Thai, you nobody Farang, you shut up, this my country, me do what me want, you not like, you go away, now, NOW!'...

[observer90210]

Dual pricing at the parks and perhaps dual fining in the law ?

 

Why not just openly ban smoking tourists [and their money] from entering the country...as that's what is happening here ultimately...

 

After all Iran and Saudi Arabia do ban booze so why can the Thai's not ban tobacco after all...their country, their rights......

[Jonah Tenner]

10 hours ago, gandalf12 said:

Good idea to impose a fine for littering but will they impose a fine if it is a Thai? If they do will it be the same level as a foreigner? Highly unlikely. Whilst discrimination is made by nationality there will always be bad feeling by non-Thai's. Have a law yes, impose fines, without question yes but make the punishment the same for everyone.

Look at how well the helmet law works...

Edited October 11, 2017 by Jonah Tenner

[gandalf12]

6 hours ago, Jonah Tenner said:

Look at how well the helmet law works...

I think we all know it will be on a discriminatory basis. I have no illusions that it will be other wise but one can fantasize even for a short time.

[GOLDBUGGY]

21 hours ago, retarius said:

I don't smoke so anything they can do to inconvenience smokers I am in favor of.

Well I don't drink anymore either, so anything they can do to inconvenience drinkers I am in favor of.

 

I don't go to the beach anymore either, so anything they can do to inconvenience Beach Goers, I am in favor of. In fact ban everyone from going to any beach in Thailand is fine with me.

 

I don't have any trouble now getting a Visa Extension, so anyone who is not old enough to Retire, or is not married to a Thai, should be banned from coming here. I am in favor of that as well.

 

Is this really the society you choose to live in? Filled with all sorts of rules and regulations, that simply because it does not effect you, you are in favor off them? That pretty selfish if you want my opinion.

 

Personally, and one of the reasons I like Thailand, is the extra freedom I felt here. I believe in "Live and Let Live". If you want to have certain freedoms then you have to let others have those freedoms to. If not, then move to a place where you have no rights or freedom at all, an be happy. 

[GOLDBUGGY]

21 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

If those who smoke are respectful of those around them who don't then I feel its unfair to inconvenience them for the sake of it. 

 

I see nothing wrong with smoking on a quiet beach, but I would be annoyed if I found myself relaxing on the beach with my 3 year old son and someone a few meters away up wind started smoking. 

 

This has happened in outdoor restaurants when someone on the next table, 1 meter away starts smoking next to my Son. 

 

It is for this reason that many bans exist, not because of the many who are respectful of others, but for the handful of self-centered pr!<ks with no consideration for others. (someone twit will now feel duty bound to mention something about kids in restaurants - Don't bother, it would be a dumb response).

 

I would agree with a stringent littering fine. Fair enough if they have to specifically target beaches at first, enforcement has to start somewhere. But also enforce it at all hours across all Nationalities, not just for the soft targets. 

 

Yes - this is clearly about money and away of avoiding conflict with the real issues of the overwhelming littering by those who live in Thailand (rather than visit on holiday)/ 

 

You get a dumb responses because what you are doing is dumb. There are plenty of restaurants you can go to, including indoor ones, where smoking is banned.

 

But you choose to go the one with you 3 year old son where smokers are allowed to smoke and go to, and then complain expecting everyone else to follow your rules. That is like taking your son inside a smoking room at the airport and then expecting everyone inside to stop smoking because your son is with you.

 

Do you see how dumb that is now?  

[jackdd]

12 minutes ago, GOLDBUGGY said:

You get a dumb responses because what you are doing is dumb. There are plenty of restaurants you can go to, including indoor ones, where smoking is banned.

 

But you choose to go the one with you 3 year old son where smokers are allowed to smoke and go to, and then complain expecting everyone else to follow your rules.

Smoking is banned at every restaurant in Thailand by law. How would he know beforehand that the owner of this restaurant doesn't care about the law and allows people to smoke?

[GOLDBUGGY]

21 hours ago, pattayadgw said:

Lets get a bit of a grip here... 100,000 bt and / or jail time for smoking on the beach....... if this person was serious about wanting to clean the place up then how about making that fine and jail time across the board for any littering anywhere at any time throughout the country!! 

Here the way the law stands right now!

 

I could sit on the floor anywhere inside the crowded airport and light up a cigarette and smoke it. If I got caught, and I mean IF, I would be fined 2,000 Baht. But if I did the same thing on an open beach, with no one in sight except the Police Patrol, I could be fined 100,000 Baht. and maybe even jailed until my court case came up.

 

Can you see why some people are having a bit of a gripe about this new law?

 

The solution in my view isn't to set unrealistic fines on people who cannot afford to pay them, and then put them in an overcrowded prison when they can't pay, to solve the problem. I believe the long term solution is to educate the public through mass media so they stop littering.

 

I recall in Canada that they did this when the highways started to get filled with garbage being thrown out of the car windows in the 1960's. People just never gave this much thought before. But through Mass Media people stopped doing that. Nobody wanted to be a "Litter Bug".

 

They also put in $50 Fines but to be honest, and in all my life, I never met anyone who ever got one of those. But the highways are a lot cleaner now than they were back then. Even Bear Proof Garbage Bins through the Mountains, to drop off your garbage.

[GOLDBUGGY]

28 minutes ago, jackdd said:

Smoking is banned at every restaurant in Thailand by law. How would he know beforehand that the owner of this restaurant doesn't care about the law and allows people to smoke?

How would the smoker know it is banned even at outdoor restaurants? I didn't know this and to be honest I am not even sure you are correct in saying this. Certainly wasn't banned at the last outdoor place I went to.

[YetAnother]

17 minutes ago, GOLDBUGGY said:

I believe the long term solution is to educate the public through mass media so they stop littering.

might help; only to thais that are both thinking and care about anything other than themselves;

in my opinion, not a large percentage here; the curse of mai pen rai and it's place in thai culture will prevail

[jackdd]

16 minutes ago, GOLDBUGGY said:

How would the smoker know it is banned even at outdoor restaurants? I didn't know this and to be honest I am not even sure you are correct in saying this. Certainly wasn't banned at the last outdoor place I went to.

How would the motorbike driver know he has to wear a helmet? Obviously you have to inform yourself about the laws when you visit a country

http://www.tobaccocontrollaws.org/legislation/country/thailand/summary

"Non-air conditioned facilities serving food and/or drinks are smoke free only in the areas where food and/or drinks are served."

Of course the law being written and the law being enforced are two different pairs of shoes. If i saw people smoking at a restaurant i would simply not eat there.

But it's your right to expect that when you visit a restaurant nobody will smoke there. And actually at restaurants with only Thai people i have never seen anybody smoke, this happens only at places with foreigners.

 

Edited October 12, 2017 by jackdd

[attrayant]

On 10/11/2017 at 4:11 AM, webfact said:

It’s like nothing so much as a sweet paper has even been dropped in the West.

 

Can somebody tell me what "sweet paper" is.  Google shows me pictures of gift wrap.

[GOLDBUGGY]

10 minutes ago, jackdd said:

How would the motorbike driver know he has to wear a helmet? Obviously you have to inform yourself about the laws when you visit a country

http://www.tobaccocontrollaws.org/legislation/country/thailand/summary

"Non-air conditioned facilities serving food and/or drinks are smoke free only in the areas where food and/or drinks are served."

Of course the law being written and the law being enforced are two different pairs of shoes. If i saw people smoking at a restaurant i would simply not eat there.

But it's your right to expect that when you visit a restaurant nobody will smoke there. And actually at restaurants with only Thai people i have never seen anybody smoke, this happens only at places with foreigners.

 

I know a Motor Bike Driver needs to wear a helmet by the 3 Million Signs I have seen posted all over the place while driving my car. How many were posted in that restaurant? As far as these outdoor restaurants are concerned, these smoking laws are quite new.

 

When I first came here you could smoke anywhere. As to what I see today I still see plenty of people smoking in outdoor restaurants. I am not against such laws. I am only saying that in Thailand, and also having my 3 year old son with me, I would avoid these outdoor places when I have many of indoor ones who abide by this law. That is just good common sense.

[GOLDBUGGY]

26 minutes ago, jackdd said:

How would the motorbike driver know he has to wear a helmet? Obviously you have to inform yourself about the laws when you visit a country

http://www.tobaccocontrollaws.org/legislation/country/thailand/summary

"Non-air conditioned facilities serving food and/or drinks are smoke free only in the areas where food and/or drinks are served."

Of course the law being written and the law being enforced are two different pairs of shoes. If i saw people smoking at a restaurant i would simply not eat there.

But it's your right to expect that when you visit a restaurant nobody will smoke there. And actually at restaurants with only Thai people i have never seen anybody smoke, this happens only at places with foreigners.

 

Yes! I also remember signs at restaurants along many beaches (but not in Thailand that I can recall) where they said: "No Shirt! No Shoes! No Service!"

 

So if somebody walked in from the beach in their bare feet to buy a coke, should I demand from the owner he be evicted immediately? Or a Beautiful Woman in a Bikini? Or better yet, some beautiful model who came in Topless?

 

To get along in this world you have to give and take a little. Non-smoker don't own all the air in this world. Even when they think they do.

 

 

[jackdd]

38 minutes ago, GOLDBUGGY said:

As far as these outdoor restaurants are concerned, these smoking laws are quite new.

That's what i found on Google: 

On 10 January 2008, Thailand announced further restrictions that came into force on 10 February 2008, in that smoking would be banned (indoors and outdoors) in establishments open to the public, including restaurants, bars, and open-air markets. Members of the public face a 2,000 baht fine for not complying, and establishments face a 20,000 baht fine for not enforcing the ban (including not displaying mandated ‘no smoking’ signs). In addition to fines, those who fail to comply may be arrested. Most legal bars comply with these regulations, but in establishments that operate illegally or semi-legally they are mostly disregarded.

http://www.thaisabai.org/2012/11/thailands-anti-smoking-laws/

Not so new

[nisakiman]

On 10/11/2017 at 5:32 AM, eliotness said:

Is the ban on actual smoking or is it for discarding butts. If a smoker discards his responsibily then the quoted environmental problem hasn't been createdl, surely !!!

This is actually a valid point, given that anyone caught will be charged under the environmental protection act. If you are smoking a pipe, or have a portable ashtray with you which you can show you are using, then in theory you can't be charged with polluting the environment, since you quite emphatically are NOT polluting the environment. So what do the law-enforcers do then? They can hardly accuse you of smoke pollution, not in the open air, and with Somchai grilling squid and heaven knows what else just up the beach behind you.

 

It would be interesting to see someone test that aspect of this new decree.

[nisakiman]

6 hours ago, jackdd said:

But it's your right to expect that when you visit a restaurant nobody will smoke there. And actually at restaurants with only Thai people i have never seen anybody smoke, this happens only at places with foreigners.

 

 

I've been to loads of restaurants with outside seating and seen Thais smoking. In fact it's quite normal. And since I hardly ever visit places where there are lots of farang, the vast majority of those restaurants are frequented 99.9% by Thai clientele, so they aren't taking their cue from the farang diners.

 

........................................

 

When I was last in Phuket, about 17 years ago, the beach I went to had those palm leaf beach umbrellas, and under every umbrella there was a couple of recliners, a table, and a clay pot with sand in it for use as an ashtray, which was emptied daily. There were no cigarette butts littering the beach, because the smokers used the ashtrays provided. Or is that solution to the problem of cigarette butt littering too obvious?

 

We see the same all over the world now. Smokers are thrown out of all bars and restaurants, and having bulldozed that law through under false pretences, the anti-smokers then start complaining about having to walk through people smoking outside near the door (a situation forced upon them by the anti-tobacco campaigners in the first place), and about the butts littering the street, although no ashtrays are provided. You would be hard put to find a bunch of more intolerant whiners than the anti-smoking mob.

 

Still, wait until the anti-alcohol temperance lobby start to get their way (and they will - you can see the beginnings of it already). There will be howls of protest from the anti-tobacco crowd when they go to a restaurant and are told that they have to take their glass of wine out back next to the dumpster to drink it.

[jvs]

6 hours ago, nisakiman said:

 

I've been to loads of restaurants with outside seating and seen Thais smoking. In fact it's quite normal. And since I hardly ever visit places where there are lots of farang, the vast majority of those restaurants are frequented 99.9% by Thai clientele, so they aren't taking their cue from the farang diners.

 

........................................

 

When I was last in Phuket, about 17 years ago, the beach I went to had those palm leaf beach umbrellas, and under every umbrella there was a couple of recliners, a table, and a clay pot with sand in it for use as an ashtray, which was emptied daily. There were no cigarette butts littering the beach, because the smokers used the ashtrays provided. Or is that solution to the problem of cigarette butt littering too obvious?

 

We see the same all over the world now. Smokers are thrown out of all bars and restaurants, and having bulldozed that law through under false pretences, the anti-smokers then start complaining about having to walk through people smoking outside near the door (a situation forced upon them by the anti-tobacco campaigners in the first place), and about the butts littering the street, although no ashtrays are provided. You would be hard put to find a bunch of more intolerant whiners than the anti-smoking mob.

 

Still, wait until the anti-alcohol temperance lobby start to get their way (and they will - you can see the beginnings of it already). There will be howls of protest from the anti-tobacco crowd when they go to a restaurant and are told that they have to take their glass of wine out back next to the dumpster to drink it.

Yes smokers had their days,now the shoe is on the other foot.

How does that feel?

[Thian]

On 10/11/2017 at 8:27 AM, GOLDBUGGY said:

Yeah! What a great idea!

 

Have the person who threw down one cigarette butt, go around for 4 hours picking up empty plastic water bottles, paper wrappers, ice cream sticks, beer bottle caps, and plastic sandwich bags, that everyone else left behind.

 

Seems fare to me to!

I agree, they should forbid drinking/eating/smoking on the beach at all...plastic bottles are much largers than cigarette butts.

 

I already got fined 2000 baht for putting a cigarette in a streetdrain...along the roads here you can see whole sofa's dumped or full binbags and what not..the police only goes for easy money from farangs. And bins are all gone now in BKK.

[nisakiman]

16 hours ago, jvs said:

Yes smokers had their days,now the shoe is on the other foot.

How does that feel?

 

It actually makes no difference to me, as where I live smoking bans are treated with the contempt they deserve, and if I choose I can smoke in just about any bar or restaurant, both inside and out.

 

Fear not, as people become more aware of the lies and exaggerations of Tobacco Control, and the economic and social damage their propaganda driven policies have wrought on society, the worm will turn, and common sense will again prevail. We tend to go through these periods of puritanical intolerance every so often - it's cyclical - but they don't usually last very long. When they reach a peak, which the anti-smoking crusade has just about arrived at, and people's liberty has been compromised as far as they are willing to allow, there tends to be a backlash, and the puritan's carefully constructed edifice is discovered to be built on foundations of sand, and collapses as the tide of public opinion washes up against it.

[pattayadon]

On 10/11/2017 at 7:37 AM, Boon Mee said:

Far from being a 'perfect' plan, it is an impressive method to keep cigarette butts off the beach which is the goal here. 

Boon Mee, with DT's pic on your post, Ain't no one listening to your stupidity!!!

Edited October 17, 2017 by pattayadon

[observer90210]

Wait for the next General in Chief to arrive and if he is a smoker -  the rules will change overnight

[petedk]

On 10/12/2017 at 9:41 AM, attrayant said:

 

Can somebody tell me what "sweet paper" is.  Google shows me pictures of gift wrap.

"Sweet" is the British word for candy.

 

I would use the word sweet for all kinds of "candy" chocolates, chewing gum and such.

[xylophone]

On 12/10/2017 at 10:27 AM, jackdd said:

That's what i found on Google: 

On 10 January 2008, Thailand announced further restrictions that came into force on 10 February 2008, in that smoking would be banned (indoors and outdoors) in establishments open to the public, including restaurants, bars, and open-air markets.

So much for that law.............ALL of the bars in Bangla road (Patong) allow smokers as do the restaurants (some only outside though) and I can't see that changing, or being enforced (or re-enforced) by the BIB who have seen it happening for years now!

[impulse]

On 10/11/2017 at 5:22 AM, Samui Bodoh said:

However, as one who was fined by the "tetsakit" with the assistance of the BIB (many years ago), I am going to need evidence that this is benign.

 

Sorry, the onus is on Thailand to show that this is NOT simply a way to collect money from foreigners.

 

Strangely, I have never read about someone being fined by the tetsakit (sp?) who did not actually violate the law by littering.

 

[ChiangMaiLightning2143]

On 13/10/2017 at 2:02 AM, Thian said:

I agree, they should forbid drinking/eating/smoking on the beach at all...plastic bottles are much largers than cigarette butts.

 

I already got fined 2000 baht for putting a cigarette in a streetdrain...along the roads here you can see whole sofa's dumped or full binbags and what not..the police only goes for easy money from farangs. And bins are all gone now in BKK.

You threw a butt in a street drain, your responsibility.

No bins is no excuse for such childish and irresponsible behaviour.

 

If there are no bins you stub your smoke out on the bottom of your shoe

and put the butt in the front pocket of your trousers for proper disposal.

Every considerate "smoker" learns this at an early age.