Blacklist? Urgent and desperate need to know if I can cruise to Phuket without disembarking

[hawker9000]

14 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

When the ship is in Thai waters you are in Thailand. They only have your word that you won't leave the ship, I wouldn't be so sure nothing would happen and ask a lawyer.

I'm not so sure about this.  Unless the ship is Thai-flagged, as long as you remain on it, you have not I don't believe technically "entered Thailand" regardless of the fact that the ship itself is in Thai waters.  Do all passengers' passports automatically receive entry stamps when the ship in which they're embarked enter different national waters, or when that ship docks or drops anchor in a foreign port?  I really don't know - do they?

 

And I guess another caveat would be the fine print in the terms of carriage that accompany your cruise ticketing.  You probably "agree" to lots of stuff you're not aware of, including something that might well cover and obligate you in situations like this.  

 

All that notwithstanding, I personally wouldn't take the cruise to begin with, but if I found myself in the situation, I would refuse to go ashore with Thai immigration or at the request of ship's authority and specifically and repeatedly and loudly state "I do not wish to enter Thailand", and make them physically force me ashore, with as many people recording the process on their cellphones as possible.  (I would also have filed a written statement with the purser that I had no intention of going ashore in Thailand for any reason whatsoever).  I guess you could try refusing to allow your passport to be handed over to Thai authorities - at which point the cruise line itself might refuse to board you unless already underway.  Anyway, under those circumstances, and assuming you're not actually wanted in Thailand for anything, I would think that the Thai immigration party would decide to leave well enough alone, blow some smoke to save face, and in the end leave you unmolested.  But I doubt doing this would exactly ingratiate you with the cruise line, which probably has procedural agreements and memoranda of understanding with the Thai authorities that your actions would infringe upon.

 

But I'm NOT an international lawyer and would definitely NOT recommend your reliance on the above.  See a real lawyer or don't go on the cruise is my on-the-record advice.

 

[dbrenn]

If you don't want to risk the embarrassment of your employer knowing that you were deported from Thailand, the only sure way is to skip the cruise by saying that you are sick or something. 

 

[FritsSikkink]

3 hours ago, hawker9000 said:

I'm not so sure about this.  Unless the ship is Thai-flagged, as long as you remain on it, you have not I don't believe technically "entered Thailand" regardless of the fact that the ship itself is in Thai waters.  Do all passengers' passports automatically receive entry stamps when the ship in which they're embarked enter different national waters, or when that ship docks or drops anchor in a foreign port?  I really don't know - do they?

 

And I guess another caveat would be the fine print in the terms of carriage that accompany your cruise ticketing.  You probably "agree" to lots of stuff you're not aware of, including something that might well cover and obligate you in situations like this.  

 

All that notwithstanding, I personally wouldn't take the cruise to begin with, but if I found myself in the situation, I would refuse to go ashore with Thai immigration or at the request of ship's authority and specifically and repeatedly and loudly state "I do not wish to enter Thailand", and make them physically force me ashore, with as many people recording the process on their cellphones as possible.  (I would also have filed a written statement with the purser that I had no intention of going ashore in Thailand for any reason whatsoever).  I guess you could try refusing to allow your passport to be handed over to Thai authorities - at which point the cruise line itself might refuse to board you unless already underway.  Anyway, under those circumstances, and assuming you're not actually wanted in Thailand for anything, I would think that the Thai immigration party would decide to leave well enough alone, blow some smoke to save face, and in the end leave you unmolested.  But I doubt doing this would exactly ingratiate you with the cruise line, which probably has procedural agreements and memoranda of understanding with the Thai authorities that your actions would infringe upon.

 

But I'm NOT an international lawyer and would definitely NOT recommend your reliance on the above.  See a real lawyer or don't go on the cruise is my on-the-record advice.

 

You are already in Thailand when you come into the 12m zone. You can refuse what you want, if they want you get pick you up. Try to do something criminal while you are in the transit zone at the airport. They will pick you up too.

Edited October 14, 2017 by FritsSikkink

[Circles]

On 13/10/2017 at 2:56 PM, Mattd said:

The ship and all of those onboard will be required to clear in to Thailand, there is no way around that part.

The normal procedure for cruise ships is that Immigration will board the vessel at the port call prior to Thailand and carry out the clearances during the transit to the Thai port, depending on the vessel's route then they maybe onboard for up to 2 days, I'm guessing that the port prior to Phuket will possibly be Singapore?

As suggested, talk to the purser, it highly probable that the cruise line submit a passenger / crew list to the Thai Immigration some days in advance and therefore the checks are completed before the immigration officers boarding at the prior port to Phuket, if this is the case, then you will (should) have some advanced warning of whether or not you have an issue.

Otherwise, depending on the availability of efficient communications during the transit, then there is a small possibility that all of the passport clearances will be completed without any checks, then, upon arrival in to Phuket, immigration would depart the vessel and go to their office and enter the info into the database.

They do it this way to speed up the clearances, as some cruise ships can have upwards of 5,000 people onboard and are usually only in port for 12 hours or so, to do the immigration clearance upon arrival is just not practical.

Are you able to get off the vessel in the port prior to Thailand, then fly to the port that will be after Phuket and rejoin?

The issue the Thai authorities may have is guaranteeing that you will not disembark in Phuket, unless, perhaps, the Master gives some sort of guarantee of detaining you onboard.

There is always the possibility that they remove you from the vessel, place you in detention, then escort back to the vessel just prior to departure.

 

 

 

On 13/10/2017 at 2:33 PM, FritsSikkink said:

When the ship is in Thai waters you are in Thailand. They only have your word that you won't leave the ship, I wouldn't be so sure nothing would happen and ask a lawyer.

Dear all members,

thank you so much for all the care and attention to my query. I didn't know there were pages of replies and only now I see the buttons, I have been so bogged with tension and I couldn't think straight for last 2 days

- I depart Singapore today at 5pm. Arrive Penang for the day, depart evening and arrive Phuket at 10am, depart 8pm and one more day of cruising before arriving back to Singapore on the 20th morning.

- all the advices are precious insights and I thank you all sincerely again.

from what I understood, it's true then as I'm now on the way to my cruise center, I will see if I am clear to embark. But I read that the actual clearance will actually be done in the port before Phuket? This means I might still run into trouble though I'm allowed to embark from Singapore?

my biggest worry is this, with the old identity number being embedded in my new passport which bears a new passport number.

- I contacted Thaivisaservice, a very helpful gentleman. He couldn't get hold of the contact in immigration till Wednesday to check if I'm blacklisted. 

From his tone, I get the hint that he thinks I'm blacklisted anyhow. He also mentioned that with Singapore passport, the old identity number and date of birth is in the Bar code, he is aware as he has dealt with a singaporean before. 

He said if I go I take a risk. Also he said once blacklisted, there is no way to lift it unless I have family in Bangkok for my appeal,. 

 

Having said all these, I'm filled with extreme stress as I'm on the way to the port now... 

[Mattd]

42 minutes ago, Circles said:

my biggest worry is this, with the old identity number being embedded in my new passport which bears a new passport number.

@Circles I do not think this is going to be such a problem, as I would imagine that this data is in the biometric chip.

Even though you have a new passport number, Immigration will be linking data based on your name, nationality and DOB, this data may well have already been sent to the Thai authorities for clearances, certainly will be sent at least 24 hours prior to arrival in to Phuket, however, the general consensus is that even if the Thai authorities do see your blacklisted, this is not going to be an issue so long as you do not disembark the ship whilst it is in Phuket, make it clear to the purser that you will not be getting off.

Please do let us know how you go on.

 

[Circles]

2 hours ago, Mattd said:

@Circles I do not think this is going to be such a problem, as I would imagine that this data is in the biometric chip.

Even though you have a new passport number, Immigration will be linking data based on your name, nationality and DOB, this data may well have already been sent to the Thai authorities for clearances, certainly will be sent at least 24 hours prior to arrival in to Phuket, however, the general consensus is that even if the Thai authorities do see your blacklisted, this is not going to be an issue so long as you do not disembark the ship whilst it is in Phuket, make it clear to the purser that you will not be getting off.

Please do let us know how you go on.

 

Dear all kind souls, 

 

I was told by the Singapore  Immigration senior officer that I can speak to the Purser and advise that I am not going off the ship so my passport can be set aside from clearance, it is good to board as I have already cleared Singapore immigration.

But I told him of the example cited for the known case that someone was taken by the Thai police and sent to detention. 

He made the last effort to contact the ship agent.

Ship agent and back after checks with Thai Port Authorities with image of my current passport and said clearly that I cannot set foot in Thailand, nor transit ( though they explained air and sea transit may work differently)

if I had not known of such consequences, the customs would have come on board to do clearance and the Thai police will be waiting for me at Phuket to take me off, detained me till further paperwork is done and deport me via air. 

Reason being I'm already in Thai waters. 

Thank you so much for all the kind help and advices as they made me very much aware and helped me to ask all the right questions. 

My family boarded and I  of course did not board. 

Sincerely

Circles 

 

[Mattd]

3 minutes ago, Circles said:

My family boarded and I  of course did not board. 

Sorry to hear that, although it is better to play it safe.

 

4 minutes ago, Circles said:

Ship agent and back after checks with Thai Port Authorities with image of my current passport and said clearly that I cannot set foot in Thailand, nor transit ( though they explained air and sea transit may work differently)

if I had not known of such consequences, the customs would have come on board to do clearance and the Thai police will be waiting for me at Phuket to take me off, detained me till further paperwork is done and deport me via air. 

Interesting, I still cannot help wondering if they would have actually gone to the extremes of taking you off the vessel and then deport you by air, the vessel is only gong to be in port for 14 hours and it would be far easier just to have left you onboard.

[Circles]

10 minutes ago, Mattd said:

Sorry to hear that, although it is better to play it safe.

 

Interesting, I still cannot help wondering if they would have actually gone to the extremes of taking you off the vessel and then deport you by air, the vessel is only gong to be in port for 14 hours and it would be far easier just to have left you onboard.

Yes I asked this too and they confirmed definitely that the Thai Police will take me off keep me in detention and sent me off as it's the proper procedures 

[Mattd]

55 minutes ago, Circles said:

Yes I asked this too and they confirmed definitely that the Thai Police will take me off keep me in detention and sent me off as it's the proper procedures 

OK, many thanks for the update, it is appreciated and has added to the knowledge base.

[Aditi Sharma]

1 hour ago, Circles said:

My family boarded and I  of course did not board. 

Sincerely

Circles 

Very sorry you didn't make it. Wish you luck in qualifying soon!

 

16 minutes ago, Mattd said:

OK, many thanks for the update, it is appreciated and has added to the knowledge base.

Bangon, she did!

[Circles]

On 13/10/2017 at 6:05 PM, NanLaew said:

I was trying to post this earlier but my internet is acting the goat so most of this has been answered already. Mattd has right handle on this.

 

Since the vessel is already in Thai waters before tying up in any port, Thai Immigration will process all the passports on the vessel manifest through their system and it is highly likely that the OP will be flagged. The manifest is made available several days before actually entering Thai waters so chances are they will be waiting. I do not see any value in having cruise company, Captains or anyone asking their Phuket agents for 'advice' from Thai Immigration.

 

It's nice to think that the Phuket Immigration will happily trust that the OP has no intention of getting off and leave it at that. But based on the OP's advice of a similar instance about 4 years ago, they will probably be bound by procedures and have the OP removed from the vessel to be detained at their 'jail' for the duration of the short port call but possibly allowed to re-board prior to departure as the onward sail itinerary indicates. The earlier, similar incident also mentions the passengers detention was authorized by "claiming there is no return ticket available" but this doesn't clarify if that cruise was terminating in Phuket and all pax disembarking for onward or repatriation travel by air. This is an unlikely scenario as passengers knowing they are getting off at the cruise terminus would normally have an onward air ticket unless they were willing to take a chance or unaware of their actual banned status and planned a few post-cruise days in Thailand.

 

If the OP is unable to cancel the trip, they may consider obtaining a one-way outward flight reservation for that same evening. If Immigration do get pedantic and insist on detention, it may be much shorter if one shows they have prepared and have a ticket already. Hopefully they won't insist it has to be to the OP's home country which I understand may be the norm when once is released from longer-term stays at IDC in Bangkok for home repatriation..

 

If it is a multi-stop cruise, can the OP opt to disembark at the last port before Phuket and re-board at the first port call afterwards? May cost extra and leave the family on their own for a few days but avoid the whole drama. Personally, despite the family coming along, it is ultimately a 'reward' cruise with minimal cost implications so I would just forget about the whole cruise, see if refunds can be clawed back and move on. This uncertainty preying on ones' mind pre- Phuket won't make for a happy, relaxing cruise IMHO.

Dear Nanlaew 

i posted updates and I'm not sure you can see but you were correct.

local authorities requested ship agent to check with Thai port authorities and the reply after a copy of my current passport was checked that I cannot be in Thailand and since the boat is already in Thai waters, the police will be on standby to disembark me should customs clear my passport when they come on board.

subsequently I will be detained and deported via air after relevant paperwork is done. 

Thank you for your advice. 

Sincerely

circles 

[Circles]

1 hour ago, Mattd said:

OK, many thanks for the update, it is appreciated and has added to the knowledge base.

 

1 hour ago, Aditi Sharma said:

Very sorry you didn't make it. Wish you luck in qualifying soon!

 

Bangon, she did!

Dear Mattd and Sharma, 

looks like my ban is a serious 100 years then, I didnt recall wrongly as it's been 12 years and the records still showed as of today's check.

I'm Glad to have found this forum and to be able to help any future reference to such an issue. 

If there is anyone here who knows a good lawyer to appeal such bans, please do help to refer. 

This sickly feeling  has been going on way too Long as I was so scared to do anything since the last experience in Thailand. 

i want to be able to appeal on it, as I was never aware of what's going on and I was not given a chance to clear my name, regardless I do visit Thailand or not. 

[Circles]

On 13/10/2017 at 6:42 PM, ubonjoe said:

There is only one embassy in the UK that is in London and they would be of no help because they would not take the time to check with immigration about the blacklisting. They do not have direct access to immigrations records.

If people would read his reply to one of my posts on page one he is already in the process of getting his records checked.

Dear Urbanjoe,

i do not know if you have notices on the updates but the ship agent was notified and thai port authority checked n reverted I cannot take the boat, regardless if I don't disembark as the Thai police will be editing to take me off, sent me to detention then deport me by air, as their SOP. 

Looks like my ban is a serious 100 years then, I didnt recall wrongly as it's been 12 years and the records still showed as of today's check.

I'm Glad to have found this forum and to be able to help any future reference to such an issue. Again thank you for kind advises thus far. 

If there is anyone here who knows a good lawyer to appeal such bans, please do help to refer. 

This sickly feeling  has been going on way too Long as I was so scared to do anything since the last experience in Thailand. 

i want to be able to appeal on it, as I was never aware of what's going on and I was not given a chance to clear my name, regardless I do visit Thailand or not. 

Sincerely

Circles

[NanLaew]

54 minutes ago, Circles said:

Dear Nanlaew 

i posted updates and I'm not sure you can see but you were correct.

local authorities requested ship agent to check with Thai port authorities and the reply after a copy of my current passport was checked that I cannot be in Thailand and since the boat is already in Thai waters, the police will be on standby to disembark me should customs clear my passport when they come on board.

subsequently I will be detained and deported via air after relevant paperwork is done. 

Thank you for your advice. 

Sincerely

circles 

Glad that you got the definitive word eventually and sorry that the cruise will have to go on without you.

 

I haven't been buggering about on boats for the best part of 27 years, going in and out of countries with even more arcane and parochial immigration and legal machinations than Thailand has and learned nothing. 

 

As to clearing that 100 year ban; when you think of it, it's a lifetime ban. Good luck if you choose to pursue this. My opinion is they didn't want you back then and they won't want you now, or ever. I understand that it's personal, a 'wrong to be righted' in your eyes but to be honest, it's only Thailand and you really aren't missing much.

 

FWIW, I have a police record in the US because a court-appointed probation officer either didn't read the court instruction or was just too lazy to do his job properly and flagged me as an absconder which resulted in an arrest warrant been issued. By dint of just avoiding the place and having a good lawyer as a good friend, I have long since had the warrant and the case that pre-empted the warrant discharged by the same court. However, the erroneous 'warrant issued' still sits on my record for eternity and is also in the same database that US Immigration accesses when every foreigner enters the US. Do you think I'm in a hurry to get detained by an equally ill-informed US airport immigration cop just because I want to 'clear things up'?

Edited October 16, 2017 by NanLaew

[ubonjoe]

A post has been removed that mentioned a member who has been suspended from posting.

[Aditi Sharma]

Just now, ubonjoe said:

A post has been removed that mentioned a member who has been suspended from posting.

Sorry! I was not aware of it!

[Aditi Sharma]

1 hour ago, NanLaew said:

but to be honest, it's only Thailand and you really aren't missing much.

With all due respect, dont quite agree as long as you do the same as below...

1 hour ago, NanLaew said:

By dint of just avoiding the place and having a good lawyer as a good friend, I have long since had the warrant and the case that pre-empted the warrant discharged by the same court. 

 

[Aditi Sharma]

"I was stopped at customs 12 years ago when I attempted to go back to home country from Bangkok. Apparently, when I was given a free trip to Bangkok by a friend with a ticket that transits in Bangkok to go to Japan, he took my boarding pass and gave to a Chinese lady to board with a fake passport bearing my name n details but with her picture.  [ Local] authorities launched an investigation for around a year and cleared me and returned my passport. I have never attempted to enter Thailand since then and let the matter bury."

 

Ma'am can you please elaborate on this. Restate this story in a little more detail. If you did not do anything wrong, refuse to be a victim. Prevent others from becoming a victim like you.

Would you have the courage to find this friend who did this to you?

How are you certain that he created a fake passport with your details -have you seen it? 

How do you know it was a Chinese lady? Does she know your 'friend' better than you? Can she testify against him?

Have you received any document from your local authorities which attests to your name being cleared? Did you have no use for

your passport when it was confiscated by them?

 

Hope I am not being rude to you by asking you these questions. 

 

 

Edited October 16, 2017 by Aditi Sharma
edit

[Circles]

1 hour ago, Aditi Sharma said:

"I was stopped at customs 12 years ago when I attempted to go back to home country from Bangkok. Apparently, when I was given a free trip to Bangkok by a friend with a ticket that transits in Bangkok to go to Japan, he took my boarding pass and gave to a Chinese lady to board with a fake passport bearing my name n details but with her picture.  [ Local] authorities launched an investigation for around a year and cleared me and returned my passport. I have never attempted to enter Thailand since then and let the matter bury."

 

Ma'am can you please elaborate on this. Restate this story in a little more detail. If you did not do anything wrong, refuse to be a victim. Prevent others from becoming a victim like you.

Would you have the courage to find this friend who did this to you?

How are you certain that he created a fake passport with your details -have you seen it? 

How do you know it was a Chinese lady? Does she know your 'friend' better than you? Can she testify against him?

Have you received any document from your local authorities which attests to your name being cleared? Did you have no use for

your passport when it was confiscated by them?

 

Hope I am not being rude to you by asking you these questions. 

 

 

Dear Sharma 

the whole affair for this trip has only brought back anguish and rake up very bad memories.  

I had a husband who racked up very high gambling debts and I was doing Super full time to earn monies for his debts, our living and my Daughter barely a year old.

he came to me one day and ask if I would like to take a short break in Bangkok and he assures its us completely free, comes with a complimentary night at a hotel and a return ticket. More importantly, he said it's an urgent trip as he is helping his Friend to validate an expiring ticket and he is also to be paid S$1000 if I can just go. 

I moved my appointments and agreed to help him, but said I need to be back the next day.

i saw that it's a ticket Sg- Bangkok- Japan, I asked him why Japan and he said I don't have to be bothered, just exit Bangkok and passed my boarding pass to a guy waiting at arrival terminal, that's the japan sector they are interested in validating. 

When I arrived at Bangkok, true enough a guy was there holding a board to my name. I pass the boarding pass to him and he gave me a ticket for my flight back for the next day. He also drove me to a hotel and that's it. 

 

The next day when I was asked to go to the airport police office, the officer in charge was very very angry. Basically he threw a photocopy of a passport in my face. He asked me," looks like you correct?" 

But she doesn't! I was so shocked! 

Then he proceeded to tell me this lady has a Singapore fake passport with all my details and I am helping this China lady to be trafficked to Japan. Which eventually she will be trafficked to US by another Singapore lady who took a flight from Sg- Japan- US. 

 

The interrogation went on the whole night. Finally I was brought in to an area to rest. The next morning they said they are taking me away but i was handcuffed and was walked out of the airport onto a police truck. I was brought to IDC. 

 

The same officer then then took me to do my mug shots, fingerprinting and then threatened me to sign the document which I remembered wrote a 100 years. I did mention in earlier post that I was told if I did not sign, I will be kept here forever so I Signed! 

 

The detention cell was scary to me...water is a sickening green and with a real bad taste. I slept in cell of around 40 ladies and if many different nationalities, including babies and kids. All I could say the happiest lot were the North Koreans as they are finally arranged to go into South Korea. 

 

To summaries, my foreign ministry did nothing to help as they came to see me once and disappeared. Who got me out turned out to be the male inmates from Singapore st the next cell. They ran away from 

Sg to escape being caught for crimes they commit and was caught either for over staying, drug offences or human trafficking. They have a good life in IDC, they worked in the office in the day, then they have freedom to leave the cell at night, go out with the officers to party etc. These are the guys who exerted whatever influence they have, talked to the officers there and bought me a 1 way ticket home. If it hadn't been for them, I don't know what I would do. 

 

No, my Husband was uncontactable, the "Friend" was uncontactable. Husband never even came to BKK to see what he can do. Only Ines I'm eternally thankful for are the guys next door. They even sent me a Swendons cake the night before I was due to leave to tell me the good news. 

 

When I returned I was investigated for a year then name was cleared and passport returned. They mentioned that I also have to reconsider trips to Japan and US as this investigation Involved these countries...so now, I am scared to think of even going there...I never did try to join any family holidays to Japan and US, always investing excuses these 12 years....so depressing and tiring...

 

Oh...the Husband also disappeared during that period and I have never heard from him since...my Daughter is now 14 years old...

 

Thats about the gist of it dear....

 

 

 

 

 

[BritTim]

2 hours ago, Circles said:

the whole affair for this trip has only brought back anguish and rake up very bad memories.

I am truly sorry for your bad experience. Thank you for satisfying our curiosity by relating your story. It would seem plausible that you could clear your record in the countries involved, but I can understand your preference just to try to forget it.

To me, the most amazing part of the whole affair was the drug gang financing your deportation. Good deeds can come from the most unexpected quarters.

[007 RED]

14 hours ago, Aditi Sharma said:

"I was stopped at customs 12 years ago when I attempted to go back to home country from Bangkok. Apparently, when I was given a free trip to Bangkok by a friend with a ticket that transits in Bangkok to go to Japan, he took my boarding pass and gave to a Chinese lady to board with a fake passport bearing my name n details but with her picture.  [ Local] authorities launched an investigation for around a year and cleared me and returned my passport. I have never attempted to enter Thailand since then and let the matter bury."

 

Ma'am can you please elaborate on this. Restate this story in a little more detail. If you did not do anything wrong, refuse to be a victim. Prevent others from becoming a victim like you.

Would you have the courage to find this friend who did this to you?

How are you certain that he created a fake passport with your details -have you seen it? 

How do you know it was a Chinese lady? Does she know your 'friend' better than you? Can she testify against him?

Have you received any document from your local authorities which attests to your name being cleared? Did you have no use for

your passport when it was confiscated by them?

 

Hope I am not being rude to you by asking you these questions. 

 

 

Well, now that  the OP has provided you with all the details that you requested you will be able to raise her case (along with the others) when you have your meeting with the Prime Minister, Minister of Foreign Affairs and the Minister of the Interior.  I would also suggest that you also make an appointment to see the Minister of Justice when you come to visit Thailand.

 

[Aditi Sharma]

1 hour ago, 007 RED said:

Well, now that  the OP has provided you with all the details that you requested you will be able to raise her case (along with the others) when you have your meeting with the Prime Minister, Minister of Foreign Affairs and the Minister of the Interior.  I would also suggest that you also make an appointment to see the Minister of Justice when you come to visit Thailand.

 

 

 

Sir, it depends on if she is interested in taking this any further. I do not have the heart to ask questions of her at this forum. What did you make of her story?

Edited October 17, 2017 by Aditi Sharma
edit

[Circles]

12 hours ago, BritTim said:

I am truly sorry for your bad experience. Thank you for satisfying our curiosity by relating your story. It would seem plausible that you could clear your record in the countries involved, but I can understand your preference just to try to forget it.

To me, the most amazing part of the whole affair was the drug gang financing your deportation. Good deeds can come from the most unexpected quarters.

Dear BritTim

i do not know how to...just this thailand ban seems like an iron wall, impenetrable...

 

 

[ubonjoe]

A inflammatory post meant to derail the topic has been removed.

Forum rules.

Quote

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[Aditi Sharma]

From what the OP has described of the circumstances in which she was apprehended by the Thai authorities and banned for 100 years (??), it seems to me that she has been an innocent victim. I am not sure what role does 'benefit of the doubt' play in Thai law. I dont think we have a law forum here at TVF where this can be discussed in legal terms. If her fugitive (??) husband can be regarded as a housemaster in an artificially created Thai context--and this is because she nor her husband is a Thai national (??)--his authority can plausibly be cited as having created a compelling (for want of a better word, I was going to say overbearing but he might have been lovably persuasive) influence on his wife so that it did not occur as important to her to inquire into the details of the 'arrangement'. Her not sensing the need to inquire into the details with a view to finding out if there was something wrong with them shows her lack of suspicion thereby demonstrating her innocence or non-culpability. She did not suspect her husband's motives which makes her unwillingness or hesitancy out of the question. In order for the ban to be upheld on appeal in a higher court (??) of law, her culpability has to be proved beyond reasonable doubt. 

Edited October 17, 2017 by Aditi Sharma
edit

[Aditi Sharma]

I wish the OP had mentioned her current marital status. If it can be proven that her husband abandoned her since her arrest by the Thai authorities, it would further aid in the proving of her innocence. I am not sure if she can be represented by a Singaporean lawyer in a Thai court. 

[Aditi Sharma]

42 minutes ago, Aditi Sharma said:

... her culpability has to be proved beyond reasonable doubt. 

her culpability has to be have been proven beyond reasonable doubt, which it hasn't been, I think. 

 

Disclaimer: I do not know the facts of the case and therefore my comments will be limited in scope. My lawyer friends are unwilling to discuss this case with me without knowing the facts. The OP ( original poster) will have reason to hide facts that will have a major bearing on her case to protect her privacy and for personal reasons. 

[ubonjoe]

I think this topic has gone on long enough. The OP posted that they decided not to go on the cruise. So that seems to of ended the need for it to be open.

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