Mobiles At Petrol Pumps

[Neeranam]

Today as I was getting the car filled up with petrol, the Jet assistant's phone rang and the guy answered it! I had to laugh as behind him was a sign saying no telephones. Should I have taken a photo and showed his boss?

[icecubes]

Today as I was getting the car filled up with petrol, the Jet assistant's phone rang and the guy answered it! I had to laugh as behind him was a sign saying no telephones. Should I have taken a photo and showed his boss?

No,

Why get someone the boot for something that’s not proven.

Also plenty of people smoking at gas stations in Thailand.

unbelievable. Amazing, TIT

Have a nice day

Boom, Boom

[Mid]

Should I have taken a photo and showed his boss?

hope this is tounge in cheek ?

[lingling]

Today as I was getting the car filled up with petrol, the Jet assistant's phone rang and the guy answered it! I had to laugh as behind him was a sign saying no telephones. Should I have taken a photo and showed his boss?

Using a mobile phone while filling up is no problem - someone dreamt up this urban myth that somehow the RF from a mobile phone would be enough to generate sparks that would ignite the fumes. Sorry, but this is not possible.

[Berty]

I saw this programme on UBC where they doused the inside of a caravan with petrol, left a dozen phone there and then called the phones together from a safe distance. Nothing happened.

[tuky]

Today as I was getting the car filled up with petrol, the Jet assistant's phone rang and the guy answered it! I had to laugh as behind him was a sign saying no telephones. Should I have taken a photo and showed his boss?

Using a mobile phone while filling up is no problem - someone dreamt up this urban myth that somehow the RF from a mobile phone would be enough to generate sparks that would ignite the fumes. Sorry, but this is not possible.

There is a very very very slight chance if you were to get your mobile antenna close enough to a piece of metal tuned to the same freq, but then your phone doesn't have enough power output so it is next to impossible. Static is what can cause a fire when filling up, I wonder what their uniforms are made from

[Tywais]

5 pages on this topic already > http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=71774

[lingling]

There is a very very very slight chance if you were to get your mobile antenna close enough to a piece of metal tuned to the same freq, but then your phone doesn't have enough power output so it is next to impossible. Static is what can cause a fire when filling up, I wonder what their uniforms are made from

Yup, 2W won't generate much of a spark.

There could be one other reason for having this rule. In countries with self-service it happens that people drive off with the nozzle still plugged in to the car, resulting in damage to the car, pump, and sometimes even fire.

Talking on a mobile phone creates a distraction so that may increase the chance that someone forgets to put back the nozzle and just drives off. If the oil companies just copied the mobile phone rule from a country with self service that could maybe explain it.

[SqdnGuns]

Urban Myth

http://www.snopes.com/autos/hazards/gasvapor.asp

[elkangorito]

There is a very very very slight chance if you were to get your mobile antenna close enough to a piece of metal tuned to the same freq, but then your phone doesn't have enough power output so it is next to impossible. Static is what can cause a fire when filling up, I wonder what their uniforms are made from

Yup, 2W won't generate much of a spark.

There could be one other reason for having this rule. In countries with self-service it happens that people drive off with the nozzle still plugged in to the car, resulting in damage to the car, pump, and sometimes even fire.

Talking on a mobile phone creates a distraction so that may increase the chance that someone forgets to put back the nozzle and just drives off. If the oil companies just copied the mobile phone rule from a country with self service that could maybe explain it.

2 Watts at UHF frequencies is a totally different animal compared to 2 Watts at lower frequencies. UHF RF has a lot more 'energy' behind it.

[lingling]

2 Watts at UHF frequencies is a totally different animal compared to 2 Watts at lower frequencies. UHF RF has a lot more 'energy' behind it.

Hmm. Explain that to me. I thought energy = power * time, but maybe I am wrong... Can I build a perpetum mobile using my mobile phone?

Edited January 10, 2007 by lingling

[007cableguy]

i was eating at a stall near a petrol station last week and watched as the attentant was having a crafty fag about 4 foot away from the pump whilst the car was filling up !!!

i think that was a bit stupid ...maybe

[elkangorito]

2 Watts at UHF frequencies is a totally different animal compared to 2 Watts at lower frequencies. UHF RF has a lot more 'energy' behind it.

Hmm. Explain that to me. I thought energy = power * time, but maybe I am wrong... Can I build a perpetum mobile using my mobile phone?

Your average microwave oven radiates energy between 600 & 1000 Watts (RF). If you put your hand in the oven, it will be cooked after time 't'.

Conversely, if I change the frequency to say 28 MHz & maintain the same radiated power, your hand will not be cooked after time 't'.

Body tissues that are subjected to very high levels (kilowatts nor higher) of RF energy may suffer serious heat damage. These effects depend upon the frequency of the energy, the power density of the RF field that strikes the body, and even on factors such as the polarization of the wave.

Edit: UHF covers from 300 MHz to 3 GHz.

Edited January 10, 2007 by elkangorito

[lingling]

Your average microwave oven radiates energy between 600 & 1000 Watts (RF). If you put your hand in the oven, it will be cooked after time 't'.

Conversely, if I change the frequency to say 28 MHz & maintain the same radiated power, your hand will not be cooked after time 't'.

That has to do with the resonance frequency of the water molecules in your hand rather than "more energy".

Here is a link to a website that explains in simple terms how stuff like microwave ovens work. http://home.howstuffworks.com/microwave.htm

Edited January 10, 2007 by lingling

[robint]

I saw this programme on UBC where they doused the inside of a caravan with petrol, left a dozen phone there and then called the phones together from a safe distance. Nothing happened.

Well berty they just weren't doing it right, its no good filling an enclosure with gasolene vapour it wont explode or burn (nor will your feul tank btw). fuel must be mixed with the right amount of air. Its quite a narrow band something like between 1.4% and 7.5% v/v so if its too rich nothing will happen, however it evaporates very rapidly (flash point -45F) and the vapour is 3.5 times heavier than air so it falls down all over the floor. So if your careless smoker throws a butt on the floor while someone is filling his car - sayanara

Assuming a caravan has 12m3 then you need vapour of .6m3 and a liquid of about a cup full splashed on the floor, put a lighted candle at the far end on a table and wait for the bang

Diesel is relatively safe as its flash point is ca 130F (does not give off much vapour below that so doesnt make an explosive mixture easily). Its explosive range is however much the same as gasolene

http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/smallbusiness/sec8.html

[my friend I]

Mythbusters gave a busted rating for this myth

[thehawk]

In order for gas vapours to explode the concentration has to reach 100% LEL (lower explosive limit). The chance of this occurring in the air between your gas tank and your cell phone at the exact instant your phone rings (and if the phone generates a spark) is minimal, if not negligible. I don't know if it's a myth, but it's definitely a statistical improbability.

[warwick7735]

Hi all

At the end of the day the sign said no mobiles, the worker was in the wrong, and deserves the sack.

You all say that the probability of a phone causing an explosion is limited, but it has happened. Dont think you would be too happy if you happened to be there at that precise time when and if it did killing yourself or a member of your family.

If you was at a restaurant where there was no smoking would you all happily light up? dont think so.

Warwick

[Donz]

Mobile Phone can not cause an explosion at petrol stations.

We still have the signs here in sydney at the petrol stations and people ingore them because its BS.

[Chang_paarp]

Mobile Phone can not cause an explosion at petrol stations.

We still have the signs here in sydney at the petrol stations and people ingore them because its BS.

Poor science or not, unfortunately, the signs are there because of the government regulations.

The person who controls the driveway, is supposed to turn off the pump of any person breaking these regulations. Unfortunately it is the employees of the petrol station who gets in the sh1t usually, not the phone user.

[rak sa_ngop]

Also take care when making custard. It's a dangerous world out there:

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/fis02.pdf

(published before the days of mass mobile phones)

[Donz]

Mobile Phone can not cause an explosion at petrol stations.

We still have the signs here in sydney at the petrol stations and people ingore them because its BS.

Poor science or not, unfortunately, the signs are there because of the government regulations.

The person who controls the driveway, is supposed to turn off the pump of any person breaking these regulations. Unfortunately it is the employees of the petrol station who gets in the sh1t usually, not the phone user.

Well I guess its just there problem.

[PhilHarries]

Not sure wether it's because of the RF or the fact that the phones are not certified for use in hazardous areas but as has been said the chances of attaining the LEL at the moment the phone rings is very remote however the risk is there. Safest approach is to avoid using them while fueling, it's no great strain to go without the phone for a few minutes is it? Remember that the air expelled from the tank during filling is vapour rich particularly in a hot country like Thailand.

The greater risk is static electricity building up on a persons body and causing a spark igniting petrol vapours. There is video footage around showing this happening to a woman who set the pump running, got back in the car then stepped out to remove the nozzle. Of course this can't happen in a third world country like Thailand where you have assistants to do the job. Only in developed countries do we have to get out and do the job ourselves.

[warwick7735]

Mobile Phone can not cause an explosion at petrol stations.

We still have the signs here in sydney at the petrol stations and people ingore them because its BS.

Just a thought, maybe thats because they cant read the sign.

[tuky]

Here is the short video spoken about earlier, static electricity caused this one.

gas_fire_clip_02_13_04.avi

[elkangorito]

Mobile Phone can not cause an explosion at petrol stations.

We still have the signs here in sydney at the petrol stations and people ingore them because its BS.

Another superb statement of scientific fact.

[tropo]

There is a very very very slight chance if you were to get your mobile antenna close enough to a piece of metal tuned to the same freq, but then your phone doesn't have enough power output so it is next to impossible. Static is what can cause a fire when filling up, I wonder what their uniforms are made from

Myth Busters tried and tried to cause ignition of fuel with cellphones. They even shorted them out, but they just could not cause igntion.

[ZZZ]

Hi all

At the end of the day the sign said no mobiles, the worker was in the wrong, and deserves the sack.

You all say that the probability of a phone causing an explosion is limited, but it has happened. Dont think you would be too happy if you happened to be there at that precise time when and if it did killing yourself or a member of your family.

If you was at a restaurant where there was no smoking would you all happily light up? dont think so.

Warwick

Well said.

Just imagine if everyone could follow laws and regulations instead of treating them like guidelines and just do what suites themselves.

Roads would be safe, cities would be spotless and everyone could go on with their life living happily in a nice society.

Still there are some people that, for some incomprehensible reason, are spoiling this (utopia??) with their egoistic, ignorant behavior.

[stuxv]

Sorry chaps and chapesses, the reason for the ban is that mobiles are not intrinsically safe, it is not the using of the phone if it is in good condition but if it has a small fault that you might not know about the time of using.

Same applies for radios, torches, all manner of electrics. It has to be passed as intrinsically safe or there is a SMALL chance of fire etc.

[Pink Mist]

Sorry chaps and chapesses, the reason for the ban is that mobiles are not intrinsically safe, it is not the using of the phone if it is in good condition but if it has a small fault that you might not know about the time of using.

Same applies for radios, torches, all manner of electrics. It has to be passed as intrinsically safe or there is a SMALL chance of fire etc.

exactly, it's a hazardous area and the phones are not intrisically safe.