My Quail Project

[Jotham79]

    I have been raising quail in Thailand for most of the last 19 years and not long ago I started a project to breed large birds.

      I got 100 eggs of Jumbo Brown Quail called Meat Busters and 100 eggs of Texas A&M Whites all from James Marie farms in Louisiana.  I later got 100 eggs for a jumbo golden colored quail from a friend and I believe the bloodline came from Australia.

     I made several batches of each breed and culled for size.  For those birds I made 3 cages one each for all the hens of a bloodline and then put in males from the other two bloodlines.  I did keep a few of the whites pure.  From these crosses I selected eggs over 14 grams and one batch was even 14.5 grams and hatched several batches.  There is a recessive gene that gives a very pretty color mutation that I am keeping.  That is basically where I am at. I will usually get a few birds over 280 grams at 6 weeks and the odd 300 gram hen.  I have hit 330 grams so far. My goal is a 400 gram bird in 2 more years.

      Breeding for size is very different from a commercial egg operation.  If you want to make money on eggs, I would recommend getting 2 bloodlines of Thai birds and going from there.

      I make my own grower feed and fix a supplement for my layers.  They get more room and there are a few more things I do to get the size.  My eggs are considerably larger so require more feed, but I do make money on the eggs and culled males and spent layers.    Breeding for size does require a certain amount of record keeping to track what works.  I have a very good idea of what my FCR is out to 8 weeks, hatch rates, feed consumption of layers……..  My next project is to tray an even higher protein mix for my growers.

     If anyone else out there is doing anything like this I would love to hear about it or from anyone with quail.

 

[Speedo1968]

Very interesting project and great details.

Nice that you are selecting for egg and bird size.

 

When breeding new lines there is something called the "nickability" factor, never heard it mentioned by people in the bird industry other than with duck.   It can throw wobblys sometimes in a selective breeding program.

Do you still get the same number of eggs per bird as you do for those that lay the smaller egg ?

Is shell quality important ?

Leg problems may become an issue with a heavier bird.

Does your FCR figure take into account bird losses ?

Sorry if the questions seem obvious but I remain interest in farming despite retiring a few years ago.

 

I have been in farming since 1961.  My experience since 1980 has been mainly with chicken and duck in different countries.  I have not worked with quail since 1991, that was in Kuwait after the Gulf War helping to rebuild the industry.

 

Good luck with your project.

[Jotham79]

12 hours ago, Speedo1968 said:

Do you still get the same number of eggs per bird as you do for those that lay the smaller egg ?

Is shell quality important ?

Leg problems may become an issue with a heavier bird.

Does your FCR figure take into account bird losses ?

Sorry if the questions seem obvious but I remain interest in farming despite retiring a few years ago.

I actually find that the larger the birds are at 6 weeks the earlier they get into production and the better layers they are at least initially.  I also routinely cull hens that have lost some weight if egg production starts to drop in a particular cage.   I used to cull these bird immediately but had some room a while back so held them a few days to cull with some extra males.  I found that some of them had gone back into production and had gained weight, probably they were getting bullied in the other cage.  I usually have birds in groups so don't know what an individual bird is doing.  I supplement my feed and give a little extra calcium to help with the shells.  I do expect leg problems somewhere down the line, but no real problems yet.  For my FCR I take all food consumed and divide by total mass of all of the birds before I cull.  I don't count for birds lost during brooding nor the initial mass of the chicks.  I will soon start to cull very small chicks at 2-3 weeks.  I keep track of FCR for 2 reasons.  The first is to track health trends…..If I change nothing and the FCR goes up, I have a health or brooding issue.  If I change something like when I went from 28% to 30% protein feed and my fcr  changes that tells me something.  More important is the average mass of the birds.  I love to learn things.  I could do more with keeping records (and do more than I've talked about here), but mainly I am looking for size and will sacrifice most everything else.  Lots of difficulties going for size as the birds will tend to get smaller generation to generation until you are back to regular size.

    I am hoping to find people that will ask questions and swap stories as it helps keep my thinking about what I am doing.

[Speedo1968]

1 hour ago, Jotham79 said:

I actually find that the larger the birds are at 6 weeks the earlier they get into production and the better layers they are at least initially.  I also routinely cull hens that have lost some weight if egg production starts to drop in a particular cage.   I used to cull these bird immediately but had some room a while back so held them a few days to cull with some extra males.  I found that some of them had gone back into production and had gained weight, probably they were getting bullied in the other cage.  I usually have birds in groups so don't know what an individual bird is doing.  I supplement my feed and give a little extra calcium to help with the shells.  I do expect leg problems somewhere down the line, but no real problems yet.  For my FCR I take all food consumed and divide by total mass of all of the birds before I cull.  I don't count for birds lost during brooding nor the initial mass of the chicks.  I will soon start to cull very small chicks at 2-3 weeks.  I keep track of FCR for 2 reasons.  The first is to track health trends…..If I change nothing and the FCR goes up, I have a health or brooding issue.  If I change something like when I went from 28% to 30% protein feed and my fcr  changes that tells me something.  More important is the average mass of the birds.  I love to learn things.  I could do more with keeping records (and do more than I've talked about here), but mainly I am looking for size and will sacrifice most everything else.  Lots of difficulties going for size as the birds will tend to get smaller generation to generation until you are back to regular size.

    I am hoping to find people that will ask questions and swap stories as it helps keep my thinking about what I am doing.

Great info again, will read thoroughly and get back to you if that is ok ?

Just one point about what may happen generation to generation, that is F2, F3, F4 etc is that you may have problems with meat texture.   Of course fertility and egg size / numbers will also change.

[Jotham79]

7 hours ago, Speedo1968 said:

Great info again, will read thoroughly and get back to you if that is ok ?

Just one point about what may happen generation to generation, that is F2, F3, F4 etc is that you may have problems with meat texture.   Of course fertility and egg size / numbers will also change.

I am basically on the first generation from parent stock as I have a mix of 3 different stocks.  I am hoping to get 8 generations before I have a lot of problems.  At 2 generations per year I don't see being able to take care of the birds any longer.  I will also do some line breeding as well as inbreeding.  I figure somewhere along the way that large eggs will take a toll and that's why I will probably only get 2 generations per year.  In any case if I was positive about what would happen, it wouldn't be as interesting.

[Speedo1968]

Have you looked at losses during brooding for individual strains or crosses ?

 

Why the interest in colour of a bird ?    Have you found any advantages in growing / laying etc. ?    I would expect selection on colour may have an influence on offspring production as it could be a strong "nickability" factor

[Jotham79]

18 hours ago, Speedo1968 said:

Have you looked at losses during brooding for individual strains or crosses ?

 

Why the interest in colour of a bird ?    Have you found any advantages in growing / laying etc. ?    I would expect selection on colour may have an influence on offspring production as it could be a strong "nickability" factor

I haven't kept close records of brooding losses or hatchability by strains as I probably would change things.  I do look at environmental factors that affect all of the chicks.  I do notice that I tend to get more males than females and suspect an issue in hatching or brooding, but this has been consistent across trains and over years of hatches.

    My interest in color is really just convenience.  I started with whites and browns as it makes it easier to start the crosses.......brown boys with white girls.....  Of course this advantage goes away with the first generation.  The whites were know to have a meatier breast and the browns a slightly larger frame.  I picked up the golden strain because they gave me another strain to throw in the mix.  So my crosses were all the females of one strain with males from the other 2 strains.  I am now with all my layers are crosses (I am considering these a parent line).   Now color isn't a help as brown is dominant over white and gold is dominant over white.  White will show up in my new generation.  Now I select solely on size. 

    I don't have the time or resources to look any farther into the factors involved.  Due to health reasons I've had to get rid of my rabbits, ducks, all my chickens except 5 and any gardening.  I have only enough brooders and cages to manage a single strain.  Nor do I have the detailed knowledge to take it any farther.  I due understand that eventually there should be a "Lethal Gene" that will come into play but probably not before my health forces me to abandon the project.  I do plan to start grading our the eggs I set to 14-15, 15-16, 16-up and look at hatch rate as I suspect without reason that size may affect fertility.  I don't have room at the time, to brood separately by size.  If I can get enough of a volume to justify, I may do individual batches of a particular size. 

   Also, I am generally trying to follow something called the Tatanka Standard for quail.

[Speedo1968]

Very sorry to read that you have had to give up most of your livestock and the gardening.

I eventually had to retire due to too many "burnouts", which had made my legs a bit unsteady and, therefore difficult for me to get around the farms, especially duck houses on slats.   I guess mentally we are rearing to go.

 

Your information is very readable and as always full of interest. 

I read up on the Tatanka Standardfor quail, one site in particular had stacks of well laid out information for the new comer like myself.    Still difficult to get my head around the small sizes of quail.

 

Notice in your first paragraph of your recent post that you get more males than females, am I right that you mean by this surviving birds after brooding and not at hatch ?   If you mean "surviving" after brooding this could be because the male is the weaker of the sexes, ( particularly with ducks ),    The males only real instinct perhaps is to be sexually dominant ( if in fact they really are ) at mating time only, the rest of the time the female is dominant.    I would suspect it is a brooding issue rather than hatching.    If you are able to sex at dayold it would be worth trying separate sex brooding.

 

Egg size i.e. weight may mean shell thickness is affecting hatchability,    Are there differences in hatchability depending on time of year ?     Certainly brooding smaller dayolds together would be an advantage.

 

Take care.

 

 

[Jotham79]

I read up on the Tatanka Standardfor quail, one site in particular had stacks of well laid out information for the new comer like myself.   

Could you give me the site in case it is one I have missed it?

 

Notice in your first paragraph of your recent post that you get more males than females, am I right that you mean by this surviving birds after brooding and not at hatch ?   

I weigh, sex and sort at 6 weeks.  I could sex at 4 weeks if needed, but I haven’t heard of anyone sexing day olds.  I need to keep better track of my brooding as I think I have a snake visiting.  I weighed and sorted today a batch that started out with 30 eggs where I didn’t aggressively cull for size.  I hatched 27 and the “eggtopsy” showed 3 with no development; one of my better hatches.  Today at 6 weeks I already had birds laying for 3 days which is early as I usually get the first egg on day 45.  I remember losing one chick, but only have 23 adults so something (snake?) happened to 3.  I have 10 females and 13 males.  I figured the opposite to you that somehow the males were stronger, but have some other theories.  One is that because I am usually selecting eggs for size that the larger eggs tend to produce more males.  I don’t really believe this as the females tend to be larger by at least 20%.

 

Egg size i.e. weight may mean shell thickness is affecting hatchability,   

I don’t see anything that leads me to think I have an egg shell problem or that this would affect one sex more than another.  Quail eggs are speckled and the speckling happens after the shell is nearly developed.  I do get the odd egg that hasn’t been speckled or is a soft shell, but would never set these.  A shell that was too thick is a possibility, but don’t see looking at that.  At least once during incubation, usually on day 14, I drop the humidity as low as possible before raising it for the hatch to make the shell more brittle.

    I do notice that some eggs are heavier than other of apparently the same size (more dense).  I think this is due to a difference in the size of the air sac.  I have noticed while eating boiled eggs that the air sac size is not uniform.  An air sack that is too small makes it difficult for the chick t hatch.  I guess that air sack size could be related to sex

 

Are there differences in hatchability depending on time of year ? 

Obviously the hot season is difficult as if you want an incubator temp at 37.4 and it is 42 outside you got a problem.  It takes a lot more attention (and a bottle of ice) when it is warm out.  The really problems is during the rainy season. A certain amount of evaporation needs to take place to give the chick room to move around during the hatch.  I can make the humidity go up, but it is hard to keep it low (a small bowl or rice helps). 

      The time of year makes a bigger difference in growth.  Birds tend to grow less when it is really hot.  They eat a little and then just lay around.  This is something I heard about and have observed, but haven’t taken detailed records to investigate

[Speedo1968]

20 hours ago, Jotham79 said:

I read up on the Tatanka Standardfor quail, one site in particular had stacks of well laid out information for the new comer like myself.   

Could you give me the site in case it is one I have missed it?

 

Notice in your first paragraph of your recent post that you get more males than females, am I right that you mean by this surviving birds after brooding and not at hatch ?   

I weigh, sex and sort at 6 weeks.  I could sex at 4 weeks if needed, but I haven’t heard of anyone sexing day olds.  I need to keep better track of my brooding as I think I have a snake visiting.  I weighed and sorted today a batch that started out with 30 eggs where I didn’t aggressively cull for size.  I hatched 27 and the “eggtopsy” showed 3 with no development; one of my better hatches.  Today at 6 weeks I already had birds laying for 3 days which is early as I usually get the first egg on day 45.  I remember losing one chick, but only have 23 adults so something (snake?) happened to 3.  I have 10 females and 13 males.  I figured the opposite to you that somehow the males were stronger, but have some other theories.  One is that because I am usually selecting eggs for size that the larger eggs tend to produce more males.  I don’t really believe this as the females tend to be larger by at least 20%.

 

Egg size i.e. weight may mean shell thickness is affecting hatchability,   

I don’t see anything that leads me to think I have an egg shell problem or that this would affect one sex more than another.  Quail eggs are speckled and the speckling happens after the shell is nearly developed.  I do get the odd egg that hasn’t been speckled or is a soft shell, but would never set these.  A shell that was too thick is a possibility, but don’t see looking at that.  At least once during incubation, usually on day 14, I drop the humidity as low as possible before raising it for the hatch to make the shell more brittle.

    I do notice that some eggs are heavier than other of apparently the same size (more dense).  I think this is due to a difference in the size of the air sac.  I have noticed while eating boiled eggs that the air sac size is not uniform.  An air sack that is too small makes it difficult for the chick t hatch.  I guess that air sack size could be related to sex

 

Are there differences in hatchability depending on time of year ? 

Obviously the hot season is difficult as if you want an incubator temp at 37.4 and it is 42 outside you got a problem.  It takes a lot more attention (and a bottle of ice) when it is warm out.  The really problems is during the rainy season. A certain amount of evaporation needs to take place to give the chick room to move around during the hatch.  I can make the humidity go up, but it is hard to keep it low (a small bowl or rice helps). 

      The time of year makes a bigger difference in growth.  Birds tend to grow less when it is really hot.  They eat a little and then just lay around.  This is something I heard about and have observed, but haven’t taken detailed records to investigate

 

Hi Jotham79

Web site link as requested.

 

Thanks again for the great detail on what you have achieved.

Will reply later to your last post.

 

https://thesurvivalpodcast.com/forum/index.php?topic=42900.0

[Jotham79]

Just a quick update;

 

   I just did a cage audit where I make sure my number count is right for males and females.  I noticed some heavy females and just weighed 3 of the larger birds and had 2 hens that went 350 grams and one that went 360. (my personal best).  A lot of hens went over 300 grams and I am getting around 10 eggs a day that break 14 grams.

    For the next 3 days I am taking all of the eggs over 15 grams and checking to see if any are double yolks and then will collect a batch to set that are over 15 grams.  Also looking at increasing protein in my grower feed to 33% and going to 28% in the layer feed.

 

Cheers

[Jotham79]

A new record.   Probably a double yolk

[Jotham79]

Here is an update on my project.

 

    I sold off some of my birds and sorted my others.  I ended up with 11 hens over 300 grams(cage 1), 20 hens (cage 2) 300-330 gram (the largest hen was 370 grams and 2 were 360 grams) The males run a little smaller.  I also have a few A&M whites and a few of the dark mutation.  I am only setting eggs over 15 grams for my golds and browns and 14 grams on the whites and dark. 

    I just did a weigh in on the first batch of this generation (before the sort) and here are the results:

Average weight of 27 birds (before any culls) 269.6 grams.  Previous best was 240 grams.  Heaviest male and female both came in at 320 grams.  Previous best for a hen was 305 grams and best for a male was 280 grams.  Feed conversion was 3.35:1  which is a little high as I usually run around 3:1.  I did not weigh all my birds individually so don’t have specifics, but in general it appeared the males showed more improvement size wise than the hens.  If I don’t get a 400 gram bird in this generation, I am pretty sure I will in the next.  These birds have not stopped growing so I will wait a couple of more weeks to sort them out. I may sort the males out sooner as I would like to eat a few.  Also got the first egg on day 43.  This batch started off great as I set 30 eggs (14.8 grams) and hatched 27.  They did hatch a little early and I have this sorted.  The 3 that didn’t hatch were not fertile. All 27 made it to adult so no losses.  I have seen that the better the hatch goes the better the performance, but protein and genetics are the 2 biggest factors overall.  I went to 32% protein feed which was even parts cricket feed and soybean meal.  I do have a secret supplemental feeding program that really helps.

    I just had a new hatch.  I hatched about 83% and had 90% fertility and the hatch was on time.  One egg that didn’t develop was around 20 grams originally and was a double yolk.

[Jotham79]

Just an update…… I tried gathering eggs over 9.5 days and it did affect the viability so I will go back to 7 days.  The hatch rate only dropped slightly though as I am beginning to get my incubator dialed in.

As the hens get older the eggs get larger so my last batch of jumbos was 15.5 grams to 17.5 grams….over 17.5 and they tend to be double yolk. It is very hard to cull eggs at 15.4 grams. I am about done with this generation so will sort out the 6 very largest hens and 2 largest males and do one more batch of eggs over 16 grams.  I already culled the hens under 300 grams (delicious) so am ready to eat a few more.  I did have one hen hit 385 grams so I am not far off the 400 gram goal. 

I had several birds around 300 grams at 6 weeks and will weigh them again in a couple of weeks to see where I am at.  I did a 13 day average weight of ALL eggs under 18 grams and it was 13.99 grams. This included the eggs from my layer flock. 

[Jotham79]

On ‎30‎/‎1‎/‎2561 at 10:40 AM, Jotham79 said:

Just an update…… I tried gathering eggs over 9.5 days and it did affect the viability so I will go back to 7 days.  The hatch rate only dropped slightly though as I am beginning to get my incubator dialed in.

As the hens get older the eggs get larger so my last batch of jumbos was 15.5 grams to 17.5 grams….over 17.5 and they tend to be double yolk. It is very hard to cull eggs at 15.4 grams. I am about done with this generation so will sort out the 6 very largest hens and 2 largest males and do one more batch of eggs over 16 grams.  I already culled the hens under 300 grams (delicious) so am ready to eat a few more.  I did have one hen hit 385 grams so I am not far off the 400 gram goal. 

I had several birds around 300 grams at 6 weeks and will weigh them again in a couple of weeks to see where I am at.  I did a 13 day average weight of ALL eggs under 18 grams and it was 13.99 grams. This included the eggs from my layer flock. 

I spoke a little too soon.  I just finished a hatch with eggs gathered over 11 days and hatched 30 out of 35 quail and had a fertility of 94 %.  The 10 chicken eggs hatched 7 and had 90% fertile.  Resorting and culling and found one of my new hens (12 weeks old) at 392 grams.

[Jotham79]

Well, I finally got a 400 gram bird....402 grams actually.  The surprise was that it came when I weighed my most recent adult batch on day 43.  I had 2 more at 360 grams.  I didn't expect it so didn't have a camera, but will document it soon as my back gets a little better.  I expect to have one in my established breeders as it was 392 grams a couple of weeks ago.  This batch came from eggs minimum 15 grams.  The next 2 batches were 15.5 gram minimum and the batch in my bator were 16 gram minimum.  Those will populate out this generation of breeders as I culled the first generation.  Basically I am culling hens under 320 grams at 7 weeks.

[Speedo1968]

Well done.

Any signs of leg weakness and associated problems ?

If you are selecting for weight or any other specific criteria there will always be the nickability factor to look out for.

[Jotham79]

You got me wondering about leg problems so I checked it out.  I slaughtered a few spares and the legs appeared strong and meaty.  Plenty of bone.  Then I examined each of my breeders and saw no leg problems, but there were a couple of bumble feet. I am in the process of switching our 1 cm wire for plastic flooring.  I have had 2 different problems with the largest hens.  I lost 2 that were egg-bound and 3 to the heat (close to 40C for 2 days).  I lost no males, none of the smaller females (under 300 grams) , or any of the Texas A&M whites.  I did get a chance to weigh my breeders and got a photo of the 400 gram bird.  I am hatching a batch now and will hold off setting more for a couple of months until we get through the worst of the heat.  I’ll still be selling hatching eggs and will hatch chicks to order…….and maybe a small batch if I run out birds to eat.     sorry about the photos, I should have had better shots of the hen

[Speedo1968]

Just to remind you, most of my farming experience for many years ( since 1970's ) has been with chickens and ducks, in different countries and highly varying farm conditions and climates.    The only quail I worked with were in Kuwait.

As you may well notice from my replies I tend to think "outside the box", my apologies therefore if some of my comments seem perhaps rather obvious.

 

Thank you for the photos, well done or achieving your target weights.

 

Thanks for checking out the legs.    It's often an issue with ducks ( both commercials, PS, GP's  - normally with the males of course ), and can be with chicken.

It is not so much the bone structure but muscle and tendons unable to sustain birds in a standing posture, especially in high heat / humidity.

Any signs of dehydration in the birds you lost ?

 

It is normally the largest that suffer most when temps are high ( even more so in days of high humidity ), something to seriously think about if you intend to move to a larger bird for market, both the PS and COM.

The nickability factor could also include heat tolerance.

 

Remember as bird size increases heat load on the building ( and the often forgotten humidity level ) also increases. 

Do you have any form of ventilation / cooling in your houses ?

If yes are temps in different areas of the house the same ?   Were the losses in one part of the house ?

Is the drinking water sufficient at all times and a lower temperature than the ambient temperature ?

 

The bumble foot could well be due to the wire mesh, have you tested out the plastic before switching all cages ?

A good idea if it works and kinder to the birds feet.    Possibly need to look at warping / sagging in high temps.

 

[Jotham79]

I was grading (and culling) out my breeder hens into 2 groups…320-350 grams and 350 grams and up.  I came across this hen.

 which is the one that hit 400 grams in 6 weeks.  440 grams is 15.5 oz so I am adjusting my goal upwards to 1 pound…16 oz…454 grams.   All the birds have food and water at all times and the coop is shaded and open air, but still gets pretty warm.  They get nearly twice the space that is recommended and get special supplemental feed 2-3 times a week

 

 

[Speedo1968]

Well done that bird !   Thanks for the photos.

Good news Jotham79.

Great to read you give extra floor space to your birds, should help with ventilation too.

Wish I was back in farming again although perhaps 50 years was enough.   My mind still thinks like a spider chart, force of habit I guess.

 

Do you select out best weight / other aspects on the males as well ?

Have you found heavier breeder females lay more or less eggs, are more prone to be egg bound or prolapse or poor shell quality ?

[Speedo1968]

On 3/23/2018 at 12:51 PM, Jotham79 said:

I was grading (and culling) out my breeder hens into 2 groups…320-350 grams and 350 grams and up.  I came across this hen.

 which is the one that hit 400 grams in 6 weeks.  440 grams is 15.5 oz so I am adjusting my goal upwards to 1 pound…16 oz…454 grams.   All the birds have food and water at all times and the coop is shaded and open air, but still gets pretty warm.  They get nearly twice the space that is recommended and get special supplemental feed 2-3 times a week

 

 

Many thanks for the info and excellent photo.

Good news on the size front, well done.

Wonderful to read that floor space is much more than recommended.

 

It might help with heat stress if you can get drinking temps below ambient.

 

As I mentioned before my interest in your project is that I used to be a freelance consultant but am now fully retired and, I miss working a lot.

Any information you give will be held in strictest confidence.

 

Could I ask if you have a lighting program, I know there is plenty of info online.   With commercial ducks and poultry it is normally 23 hours and with breeders a shorter lighting program.   I played around with light intensity and types of lighting with commercial chickens in Saudi Arabia back in the 1980's, interesting results.

 

Perhaps modifying it slightly could increase feed intake during a cooler time of day ?

 

Have you managed to breed from heavier males / females yet ?    Any issues with prolapse either male or female ?

 

Again congratulations on you successes.

[Jotham79]

I am almost done with installing 15 cm of plastic mesh around the inside perimeter of the cages.....this is where they do 90% of their walking.

 

 

Could I ask if you have a lighting program, I know there is plenty of info online.   With commercial ducks and poultry it is normally 23 hours and with breeders a shorter lighting program.   I played around with light intensity and types of lighting with commercial chickens in Saudi Arabia back in the 1980's, interesting results.

 

Perhaps modifying it slightly could increase feed intake during a cooler time of day ?

 

  I have the amber bio-lights, that repel mosquitoes, on a dusk to dawn light sensor.  They don’t light up the area very well, but enough to do the job and still let them rest. I just let them eat when they want to, but I give their supplemental food in the morning.  

 

 

Have you managed to breed from heavier males / females yet ?  

I use the largest males I can get to get between 3:1 and 4:1 female to male ratio.  For this generation of breeders the cutoff was 280 grams.   

 

  Any issues with prolapsed either male or female?

 

I’ve had the odd female die when they are just beginning to lay…..same as egg-bound females.

 

I am just beginning to collect eggs from this generation of breeders.  I just started gathering my first batch which will be eggs at 16-18 grams.  I will probably set about 20 eggs  ( just a test batch and to have a few to eat)….I wish it wasn’t so hot.  My plan is to hold off setting large numbers until the birds are older and have gone through another cull to help select for longevity. As the hens age, the egg size will increase and I will be able to set more eggs.  I am also going to (starting tomorrow) separate out every hen ( about 48) to evaluate for egg laying.   I also plan to set a batch of eggs between 15-16 grams to see what happens.  For my next generation of breeders I hope to be able to cull all hens under 350 grams and males under 300 grams. Half of my hens now are over 350.

 

 

 

[Speedo1968]

Sorry for late reply.

Many thanks for your interesting response.

 

I found the attached article about lighting programs that may be of interest to you, if you have not already seen it.

The trials I did in Saudi with commercial chicken produced some interesting responses to light by way of feathering and skin quality.

In those days there were no bio-lights only the option of red light.

 

It still takes me time to remember that male quails are smaller than the female.    I wonder what would happen if you ended up with a reversed situation ?

 

Have you had any loss in shell quality with larger eggs ?

 

Longevity !   Now that is an interesting idea.    Excellent thinking on your part.   I suppose the shorter maturity and grow out times etc. make that possible.      Don't know if anyone has looked at this with chicken / duck, with the former birds are now so hybrid that breeders have enough issues with leg problems and disease resistance.

A duck company I worked with produced a wonderful female breeder, everything regarding production was excellent, it took 5 years of selective breeding from original stock lines.    Unfortunately, when she ran, especially on straw, she would tumble forwards.   That is what can happen when the 'nickability' factor really comes in to play !   Five years of wasted effort and no 'new' line for the market.

 

Shame you can't do something about the heat.

Would it help adjusting the lighting to allow supplemental feed 30 - 60 mins earlier, especially if it is a higher energy / protein feed ?

 

Not sure what kind of housing you have but, if is semi open are you able to adjust the angle / height of the curtains ( or whatever protects the sides ) to alter air flow, both direction and speed ?

 

Thanks again for taking time to reply.

 

Study on the Influence of Average Daily Light Duration and Different Levels of Battery Cages on Production Performance of the BaloteÅti Hens Quail Population  [2015]

IoniÅ£Ä, LucianElena Popescu-MicloÅanuGeorge NicaIoan CusturÄet al.

Abstract

 

In order to determine the effect of average daily lighting duration and battery cages level on the production performance of laying quails, an experiment on 500 quail hens of BaloteÅti population in 1-15 months laying period was organized. To achieve this, quails were divided into two equal groups (250 heads/lot), the control group was maintained on a 24-hour lighting period and experimental group was maintained in a program with discontinuous illumination, using natural lighting completed with artificial light with a variable duration (12hours and 30minutes during the first 6 months of laying curve, 14hours and 10minutes in the following). To complete the study on the battery cage effect temperature was recorded on each level in both groups. During the period studied, the results were significantly higher in the experimental group compared with the controls ones. The average production performance regarding the percentage of laying was higher by 10.21% and egg production per capita was higher by 21.92%. Average consumption of mixed feed was 4.33% higher in the experimental group, while specific consumption was 25.51% higher in the control group quail. Average mortality was 10.60% lower in the experimental quails group. In conclusion, the use of a discontinuous lighting with variable duration program depending on the laying curve (lower in the first part of the lay curve and higher in the second part of it) is recommended. The influence of the cages batte

ry was insignificant, but should be considered that temperature fluctuations in the 5 levels were not higher than 4 Celsius degrees in both groups.