New unedited footage shows British pensioner taking machete swipe at Thai man

[greenchair]

10 minutes ago, tropo said:

You sound rather bonkers to me. The Farang was forced to drive slowly and then stop and couldn't leave the scene. He had no idea what the Thai would do and felt threatened. Some people consider offense the best defense. Some people just react when threatened as adrenaline takes over and makes it harder to think rationally. Do you have any idea what the Thai guy's plans were, after forcing the Brit to stop in the middle of the road? We can only guess, but considering his aggressive nature displayed at the school, and his total disregard for authority, he was quite dangerous.

 

I better stop now lest someone else accuses me of being a Thai-basher.

That's right, and the law says feeling threatened is grounds for defense. ☺☺☺

[Peterw42]

38 minutes ago, greenchair said:

That's right, and the law says feeling threatened is grounds for defense. ☺☺☺

Defense, "not" attack.

[greenchair]

2 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

Defense, "not" attack.

Call it what you like. The Thai caused the whole situation, the law allows for over reaction as people react differently when feeling threatened. Law is the law, read it. 

[mommysboy]

1 hour ago, greenchair said:

People are of the mistaken belief that you must be hit or attacked in order to defend yourself. 

But in fact the law says there only needs to be a situation instigated by another that causes you to believe you are in danger and that situation caused you to react. 68 says if the person commits an act for defending his right to escape from danger that is imminent. 

67 says when a feels compulsion to react or acts in order to escape imminent danger which the person did not cause that situation to exist. 69 in the case of 67,68 the person used excessive force but it occurs out of excitement or fright or fear. 

So when the Thai slowed his car to make brit stop, but the brit tried to pass him, but the Thai prevented him from passing, he immediately instilled fear. Then he forced the brit to stop wedging him between 2 cars causing the feeling of imminent danger. The Thai stayed in his car so if the brit tried to leave he would have used his car to prevent him leaving. The brit of 77 was obviously frightened by the situation. There would have been no case if the Thai did not create the situation in the first place. He caused it. 

The Thai would not allow him to leave, that's what he was defending against. 

 

That's an excellently written explanation.  In the newer video footage, which incidentally is not unedited, he appears at one point to raise the machete as if to prepare an attack, but then brings it down once again to bear on the car.  It was this that convinced me it was not attempted murder.  And when he flees the scene I was not altogether convinced at first that he was even aware that the Thai was so close. Then, he stopped the car, like someone would do upon realising there had been a collision.  Imo, it is right to say the Thai is the aggressor first, and last, and we see this with the final punch, which is only final because he is prevented from launching a further attack.

 

I hope the defence you outline is credible- not because I consider him blameless- but, because I fear it is shaping up for a long custodial sentence for the old Brit, and next to nothing for the Thai.  Frankly, each deserve about the same, and the mitigation for the pair of them is that neither was seriously hurt, and, more importantly, neither was anyone else.  perhaps the best outcome would be a lengthy suspended sentence for the pair, together with an even lengthier driving ban.

 

 

[Eloquent pilgrim]

4 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

 

That's an excellently written explanation.  In the newer video footage, which incidentally is not unedited, he appears at one point to raise the machete as if to prepare an attack, but then brings it down once again to bear on the car.  It was this that convinced me it was not attempted murder.  And when he flees the scene I was not altogether convinced at first that he was even aware that the Thai was so close. Then, he stopped the car, like someone would do upon realising there had been a collision.  Imo, it is right to say the Thai is the aggressor first, and last, and we see this with the final punch, which is only final because he is prevented from launching a further attack.

 

I hope the defence you outline is credible- not because I consider him blameless- but, because I fear it is shaping up for a long custodial sentence for the old Brit, and next to nothing for the Thai.  Frankly, each deserve about the same, and the mitigation for the pair of them is that neither was seriously hurt, and, more importantly, neither was anyone else.  perhaps the best outcome would be a lengthy suspended sentence for the pair, together with an even lengthier driving ban.

 

 

all well and good ......... but you have somehow neglected to mention that this lunatic then mowed the other idiot down with his car, in an obvious attempt to kill him ............ shall we call it partial reporting on your part  ??

[greenchair]

5 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

 

That's an excellently written explanation.  In the newer video footage, which incidentally is not unedited, he appears at one point to raise the machete as if to prepare an attack, but then brings it down once again to bear on the car.  It was this that convinced me it was not attempted murder.  And when he flees the scene I was not altogether convinced at first that he was even aware that the Thai was so close. Then, he stopped the car, like someone would do upon realising there had been a collision.  Imo, it is right to say the Thai is the aggressor first, and last, and we see this with the final punch, which is only final because he is prevented from launching a further attack.

 

I hope the defence you outline is credible- not because I consider him blameless- but, because I fear it is shaping up for a long custodial sentence for the old Brit, and next to nothing for the Thai.  Frankly, each deserve about the same, and the mitigation for the pair of them is that neither was seriously hurt, and, more importantly, neither was anyone else.  perhaps the best outcome would be a lengthy suspended sentence for the pair, together with an even lengthier driving ban.

 

 

If he wanted to hit him he would have. He used it to threaten the Thai to stop the rage game but the Thai gets out of the car. In fact the brit backs off, whilst the Thai is swinging. 

Self defense is the only option. 

My lawyer told me to plead guilty and settle, I found those laws myself. The lawyers don't like to use it. The second video is the key. 

[mommysboy]

9 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

all well and good ......... but you have somehow neglected to mention that this lunatic then mowed the other idiot down with his car, in an obvious attempt to kill him ............ shall we call it partial reporting on your part  ??

I wrote this : "And when he flees the scene I was not altogether convinced at first that he was even aware that the Thai was so close. Then, he stopped the car, like someone would do upon realising there had been a collision."  

 

The speed did not suggest an obvious attempt, and indeed the outcome is pretty much what one would anticipate. I really am not sure the old nut even knew what he was doing at this point.  My guess is he just got in the car and pulled away without properly looking.  I mean what sort of nut stands directly in front of a car that is about to pull away? 

[Eloquent pilgrim]

1 minute ago, mommysboy said:

I wrote this : "And when he flees the scene I was not altogether convinced at first that he was even aware that the Thai was so close. Then, he stopped the car, like someone would do upon realising there had been a collision."  

 

The speed did not suggest an obvious attempt, and indeed the outcome is pretty much what one would anticipate. I really am not sure the old nut even knew what he was doing at this point.  My guess is he just got in the car and pulled away without properly looking.  I mean what sort of nut stands directly in front of a car that is about to pull away? 

oh ....... just coincidental then that he mowed down a geezer that he had just threatened with a machete, rather than one of the other 68.8 million inhabitants of Thailand  ....... jog on will ya 

[mommysboy]

7 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

oh ....... just coincidental then that he mowed down a geezer that he had just threatened with a machete, rather than one of the other 68.8 million inhabitants of Thailand  ....... jog on will ya 

 

Yes. I don't suppose sending rsvp invitations to the the other 68.799999 million inhabitants was furthermost in his mind. Nor would most be so daft as to deliberately stand in front of a car that was about to pull away

[jenny2017]

On 10/17/2017 at 5:28 PM, tingtongtourist said:

  

 

A lot of yes in reply thanks..which all does actually back up my opinion. 

If all Thais are like this than why would you dare NOT to go on the road without a weapon?

Thousands of Thais have a weapon, but you no want?

 

I stick by my opinion and it is quite obvious, you say why he dont stop? 

But the Thai WAS trying to make him stop by his actions..and if you stop then you expect to deal with the typical thai you describe.. if he catch you 

 

I bet, if you ask anyone been in this position,

They say

"I get in first, not wait to get shot or beaten by 7eral thais"

The Brits showing of a machette probably is the only thing that save him from the coward who can only punch when a guy aint lookin.

If he (thai) do this in front of a cop, then imagine what he do in a side soi where nobody around, the brit would be dead

 

 

 What this farang did, was attempted murder, no matter how the Thai drove. Reading your post then makes me so sick that I'd like to throw up. 

 

  I feel sorry for the guy's daughter, growing up in such a terrible environment, that can't be good for her.The foreigner even shows all signs of having some alcohol, or anything else intus, which would make the situation even worse.

 

Who knows, he's perhaps on a strange medication, a normal human being would never show such a reaction. 

 

  And you, dear poster, should be ashamed of yourself to write such  a post that will also be read by Thais.

 

It's a shame for all other foreigners living in this country,  

[mauGR1]

23 minutes ago, jenny2017 said:

 What this farang did, was attempted murder, no matter how the Thai drove. Reading your post then makes me so sick that I'd like to throw up. 

 

  I feel sorry for the guy's daughter, growing up in such a terrible environment, that can't be good for her.The foreigner even shows all signs of having some alcohol, or anything else intus, which would make the situation even worse.

 

Who knows, he's perhaps on a strange medication, a normal human being would never show such a reaction. 

 

  And you, dear poster, should be ashamed of yourself to write such  a post that will also be read by Thais.

 

It's a shame for all other foreigners living in this country,  

Well, not excusing the old man actions, and i am still bewildered at how he could do that, but to be fair, he has been provoked big time, and his counterpart doesn't look like an angel at all.

It takes 2 to tango..

[mommysboy]

41 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Well, not excusing the old man actions, and i am still bewildered at how he could do that, but to be fair, he has been provoked big time, and his counterpart doesn't look like an angel at all.

It takes 2 to tango..

Many posters basically agree.

[tropo]

2 hours ago, mommysboy said:

I wrote this : "And when he flees the scene I was not altogether convinced at first that he was even aware that the Thai was so close. Then, he stopped the car, like someone would do upon realising there had been a collision."  

 

The speed did not suggest an obvious attempt, and indeed the outcome is pretty much what one would anticipate. I really am not sure the old nut even knew what he was doing at this point.  My guess is he just got in the car and pulled away without properly looking.  I mean what sort of nut stands directly in front of a car that is about to pull away? 

Perhaps a guy looking to dramatize an event. I know you don't subscribe to this theory, but why else would he purposefully walk in front of the car that his enemy just got into?.. a guy that moments before was madly waving a machete at him.  I think he planned it and intended to smash the windscreen. I don't think the Thai guy ever felt threatened. He got out of his car while the old guy was still waving his machete around, moreover a machete he had just used to damage his car. That's not what most people would do in that situation. They would stay in the car and wait for an opportunity to escape.

 

[tropo]

1 hour ago, jenny2017 said:

 What this farang did, was attempted murder, no matter how the Thai drove. Reading your post then makes me so sick that I'd like to throw up. 

 

  I feel sorry for the guy's daughter, growing up in such a terrible environment, that can't be good for her.The foreigner even shows all signs of having some alcohol, or anything else intus, which would make the situation even worse.

 

Who knows, he's perhaps on a strange medication, a normal human being would never show such a reaction. 

 

  And you, dear poster, should be ashamed of yourself to write such  a post that will also be read by Thais.

 

It's a shame for all other foreigners living in this country,  

If you get sick that easy,  you haven't got the stomach to post here. People are just theorizing here - relax. The whole circus was started by the Thai guy. The foreigner's reaction was crazy, but that could have saved him as I'm sure the Thai guy had something nasty in mind when he forced him to stop in the middle of the road.

 

I'd love to hear your thoughts about what you think the Thai guy had in mind after he forced him to stop. What was his plan?

[greenchair]

5 hours ago, mommysboy said:

I wrote this : "And when he flees the scene I was not altogether convinced at first that he was even aware that the Thai was so close. Then, he stopped the car, like someone would do upon realising there had been a collision."  

 

The speed did not suggest an obvious attempt, and indeed the outcome is pretty much what one would anticipate. I really am not sure the old nut even knew what he was doing at this point.  My guess is he just got in the car and pulled away without properly looking.  I mean what sort of nut stands directly in front of a car that is about to pull away? 

That's right, it looks like the oldy didn't see him in his stress, he stops, sees the guy is alright and escapes. The Thai followed him and punched him as was his intention all along. He probably would have gotten a right good beating without the machete. 

[Si Thea01]

9 hours ago, greenchair said:

I find the small owner operator lawyers offices to be 5 or 6 thousand a case and they do a good job. Well as good as you'll get for thai ,but no different from the 50000 baht a case lawyers. 

I wish that was all I was charged.  I checked with a number of lawyers before choosing the one who took on my case.  All wanted in excess of 250 K and up front.  But then given my case was very complicated, I'd doubt if some of the smaller ones would have had the experience.  But then they might, I will never know now.

[Keesters]

20 hours ago, maxpower said:

You are a funny guy, I mean really funny. Take off your serious hat once in a while.

 

And you need to put one on sometimes. Road rage, road markings are all serious things and should be taken seriously and not with a flippant attitude.

[kingkenny]

On 15/10/2017 at 12:10 PM, DurianBreath said:

It's a shame that the dashcam footage has been edited. Within the first minute we see the white car recklessly overtaking, causing oncoming traffic to stop to prevent an accident. We see the white car's driver gesturing out of the window. We see the white car purposefully causing contact with the farang's car. We see the white car stopped and waiting for the farang car before setting off again to stop or damage the farang car again. We possibly might have seen the farang overtake the white car causing the classic loss of face for the white car driver.

We also see a stupid farang get caught up in what looks like a run of the mill daily event on Thailand's roads. It would be interesting to know if the farang has always been as quick tempered. At 77 years old he may well be displaying signs of early-onset dementia or even developed dementia, and a common personality change is that of developing a short temper...

 You missed the right turn from the wrong lane by the Thai guy at the start of the video which in turn forces the other guys guy to have to move right, the Thai guy was doing the usual of trying to create two lanes on a one lane road when turning. Then his reckless driving after that because the other driver had the temerity to stand his ground and continue his right turn. Sure the old guy lost it but lets be honest, on a daily basis there are any number of people I would happily slap on a daily basis when I see them driving, its only my 13 years of driving here daily that stops me so I become accustomed to it. However the deliberate acts from the Thai driver went that one step further in trying to actually cause an accident.

[Rimmer]

Some off topic bickering and flaming posts have been removed

[greenchair]

3 hours ago, Si Thea01 said:

I wish that was all I was charged.  I checked with a number of lawyers before choosing the one who took on my case.  All wanted in excess of 250 K and up front.  But then given my case was very complicated, I'd doubt if some of the smaller ones would have had the experience.  But then they might, I will never know now.

The important thing is did you win? People dont mind paying 250,000 for a win. Now I negotiate with lawyers, 10,000 for a case 1000 foreach time they have to go to court and depending on the case 20 or 30000 for a win. Or a good price is 5000 per day at the court, 2500 half day and double for a win. Makes them work harder. Most lawyers will tell you to plead guilty. Mine did in the first case and I got a criminal record anyway, even though in hindsight I was innocent. I learnt from that. I used self defence 67, 68, 69, the lawyer told me I would lose and the judge offered a guilty plea bargain. 

I fought and won. But I speak thai very well so that was my saviour. 

[Proud Father]

They always said gold can make you go crazy, and now I now gardening can make you go crazier than gold.

 

I hope this video will allow Mr gold shop brio be charged to the fullest extent of the law also as he wishes on his Nissan paint swapping friend, as now his claim to have apologized for almost hitting the brit has been shown in actual initiating the conflict.  The Video actually shows him repeatedly using his vehicle as a weapon in the first place.  He even placed others in danger with his vehicle in attempting to continue on his road rampage up the road.  It should also be noted that 1:17 to 1:21 the brio pulls over to allow a truck pass and then pulls back out trying to cause an accident.    

 

It's all too common this type of behavior as you can see the police on the motorbike with no helmet driving on the wrong side of the road with no helmet around a blind corner with no clue or interest and the same as the Thai lady just keeps casually walking right past a crazy farang with a knife attacking the vehicle of a Thai thug.  

 

"Live from Pattaya it's Time to Pick up the Kids"

 

 

 

 

 

[Si Thea01]

6 minutes ago, greenchair said:

The important thing is did you win? People dont mind paying 250,000 for a win. Now I negotiate with lawyers, 10,000 for a case 1000 foreach time they have to go to court and depending on the case 20 or 30000 for a win. Or a good price is 5000 per day at the court, 2500 half day and double for a win. Makes them work harder. Most lawyers will tell you to plead guilty. Mine did in the first case and I got a criminal record anyway, even though in hindsight I was innocent. I learnt from that. I used self defence 67, 68, 69, the lawyer told me I would lose and the judge offered a guilty plea bargain. 

I fought and won. But I speak thai very well so that was my saviour. 

Yes, I won and was compensated quite handsomely and the cost to me was a lot more that 250 K.  I also speak Thai very well and was able to pull my lawyer up a few times and get him to ask the right questions.  I also intervened a few times to ask the Judge to stop the defendant's lawyers from laughing and treating the matter as a joke. They thought it was funny that a Farang had the hide to challenge a Thai doctor.

 

They didn't like it, believe me but the Judge was on my side, which I thought was half a start. She was not impressed that they were disrespecting the Court. At one stage a hospital representative came in and not under oath, asked to speak to me, in front of the judge. I OK'd it as did the judge, with the representative speaking in English, which the Judge also spoke, and blatantly lied about my prior health.  I told her, in Thai, not to come into the court and lie and if she had anything further to say, then give her evidence, under oath, the same as I and the witnesses had to do.

 

I actually called her a liar,  inThai. to her face.  I was relieved that the judge did not pull me up but when the hearing finished that day, she spoke with me and my lawyer and told me she understood why I was angry.  I appologised for my outburst, and she said Mai Pen Rai,  that she understood, which I thought was pretty good of her.

 

She was also the one who told the defendant that he must think closely about compensation, as if he was found guilty, then the offence not only carried a gaol term but he would also have to front the medical board owing to a conviction for malpractice and may not practice again.  It helped, as at the next hearing, the offer was made and accepted.

[greenchair]

28 minutes ago, Si Thea01 said:

Yes, I won and was compensated quite handsomely and the cost to me was a lot more that 250 K.  I also speak Thai very well and was able to pull my lawyer up a few times and get him to ask the right questions.  I also intervened a few times to ask the Judge to stop the defendant's lawyers from laughing and treating the matter as a joke. They thought it was funny that a Farang had the hide to challenge a Thai doctor.

 

They didn't like it, believe me but the Judge was on my side, which I thought was half a start. She was not impressed that they were disrespecting the Court. At one stage a hospital representative came in and not under oath, asked to speak to me, in front of the judge. I OK'd it as did the judge, with the representative speaking in English, which the Judge also spoke, and blatantly lied about my prior health.  I told her, in Thai, not to come into the court and lie and if she had anything further to say, then give her evidence, under oath, the same as I and the witnesses had to do.

 

I actually called her a liar,  inThai. to her face.  I was relieved that the judge did not pull me up but when the hearing finished that day, she spoke with me and my lawyer and told me she understood why I was angry.  I appologised for my outburst, and she said Mai Pen Rai,  that she understood, which I thought was pretty good of her.

 

She was also the one who told the defendant that he must think closely about compensation, as if he was found guilty, then the offence not only carried a gaol term but he would also have to front the medical board owing to a conviction for malpractice and may not practice again.  It helped, as at the next hearing, the offer was made and accepted.

That's a great story. 

I have found the judge's to be supportive of foreigners but you really must know your stuff. Letting a lawyer do it for you is a 90 percent sure loss. I see the foreigner are somewhat more believed by their word of mouth, whereas the Thai need to show clear evidence more strictly. The judges are pretty good at picking up who is lying and who is not. 

This man's case is simple to win on self defence, but neither the lawyer nor the judge will advise him to use it. He will need to be on his game. From the video I see he has a very good chance to win or at least enough doubt for a very reduced sentence of a fine. 

[tropo]

5 hours ago, Si Thea01 said:

15 hours ago, greenchair said:

I find the small owner operator lawyers offices to be 5 or 6 thousand a case and they do a good job. Well as good as you'll get for thai ,but no different from the 50000 baht a case lawyers. 

I wish that was all I was charged.  I checked with a number of lawyers before choosing the one who took on my case.  All wanted in excess of 250 K and up front.  But then given my case was very complicated, I'd doubt if some of the smaller ones would have had the experience.  But then they might, I will never know now.

A cheap lawyer can cause more harm than good. A bad lawyer cost me 2 follow-up court cases, a lot of money and a year of my life. I hired him in March 2016 and finally wrapped up all the cases with a good lawyer by late May 2017.

 

If you're a defendant you need the best lawyer you can find, especially if jail time is on the cards. Sure, expensive lawyers can be as bad or worse than the cheap ones, so finding a good one is very difficult. (if you need a good one in Pattaya, PM me)

 

If it's a civil case, their standard fee is 20% of the amount being demanded in the lawsuit - up front... which was a 60k fee for my civil case.

[tropo]

1 hour ago, greenchair said:

5 hours ago, Si Thea01 said:

I wish that was all I was charged.  I checked with a number of lawyers before choosing the one who took on my case.  All wanted in excess of 250 K and up front.  But then given my case was very complicated, I'd doubt if some of the smaller ones would have had the experience.  But then they might, I will never know now.

The important thing is did you win? People dont mind paying 250,000 for a win. Now I negotiate with lawyers, 10,000 for a case 1000 foreach time they have to go to court and depending on the case 20 or 30000 for a win. Or a good price is 5000 per day at the court, 2500 half day and double for a win. Makes them work harder. Most lawyers will tell you to plead guilty. Mine did in the first case and I got a criminal record anyway, even though in hindsight I was innocent. I learnt from that. I used self defence 67, 68, 69, the lawyer told me I would lose and the judge offered a guilty plea bargain. 

I fought and won. But I speak thai very well so that was my saviour. 

If you have a straightforward case and a choice of good lawyers, then you're lucky to be in a position to negotiate. My case was so messed up and convoluted I was lucky to find a lawyer to handle it and even luckier to find a good one.... and even luckier they did a good deal. It was all luck. It's not easy to change lawyers mid-case. My old lawyer had even offered to defend us for free - which was too expensive considering what he had done for us up to that point.

[greenchair]

17 minutes ago, tropo said:

A cheap lawyer can cause more harm than good. A bad lawyer cost me 2 follow-up court cases, a lot of money and a year of my life. I hired him in March 2016 and finally wrapped up all the cases with a good lawyer by late May 2017.

 

If you're a defendant you need the best lawyer you can find, especially if jail time is on the cards. Sure, expensive lawyers can be as bad or worse than the cheap ones, so finding a good one is very difficult. (if you need a good one in Pattaya, PM me)

 

If it's a civil case, their standard fee is 20% of the amount being demanded in the lawsuit - up front... which was a 60k fee for my civil case.

It sure is difficult to know which one to choose, but I seen a lot of bad expensive lawyers and bad cheap lawyers also. Pure luck. 

I paid 50,000 to a top lawyer to negotiate a settlement and close the case. He spoke to the other lawyer 10 minutes. Came back saying they would not settle. The money did not include the court case, he was done. And Wai the criminal as he walked out with my money. I won fighting my own case, he was fined 4000 baht and 3 months community service, I lost around 100,000 on lawyers. 

I think lose fee /win fee is a better incentive. 

[Kadilo]

Struth,  get a room 

[Si Thea01]

26 minutes ago, tropo said:

If you have a straightforward case and a choice of good lawyers, then you're lucky to be in a position to negotiate. My case was so messed up and convoluted I was lucky to find a lawyer to handle it and even luckier to find a good one.... and even luckier they did a good deal. It was all luck. It's not easy to change lawyers mid-case. My old lawyer had even offered to defend us for free - which was too expensive considering what he had done for us up to that point.

It was sort of straight forward but I had to call expert witnesses to prove negligence, that was the hardest part.  Given those I called were specialists in their fields, one was a actually a teaching professor, I was actually surprised at the low fees that they sought for their attendances. But they were great witnesses, never missed a beat.

 

What I also found unusual that once they gave their evidence, I had to show the court the money before it was paid to them. Don't know why, just a procedure of the court. Sorry that yours was messed up.  Mine was almost, until I pulled my lawyer into gear. After that is was just the giving of evidence and then negotiations. It could have dragged on, if he was convicted, appeal one, then if upheld, appeal two, to the Supreme Court.  Luckily, he came good and now it is all over.  

[Si Thea01]

19 minutes ago, Kadilo said:

Struth,  get a room 

Don't you know you're allowed a love in on TVF and for that you don't need a room. It's the haters that are sent to their rooms.

[Rimmer]

The topic is about:

New unedited footage shows British pensioner taking machete swipe at Thai man

 

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