Possible to leave Thailand with New and *Clean* passport?

[hapacadabra]

Quick Summary:
Can I make a new passport in Thailand, and then leave Thailand without going to immigration (Chaeng Wattana), *and*, without airport immigration notating something in my new passport?

Longer:

Situation:
 - My USA passport expires in early 2018.
 - The passport has a history (4-5 years) of Tourist Visas and Edu Visas.
 - I am currently in Thailand.
 - I have a Tourist Visa, which ends (I already extended for 30 more days) in November.

Goals:
 - Get a new passport that has ***no prior record of my Thai Visas/entries***.

Options?:
 - Make a new passport in Bangkok.
 - Make a new passport in some nearby country that allows entry on a passport with only a few months of validity. (Hong Kong?)
 - Make a new passport back in the USA.

My preference, is that I just make a new passport in Bangkok.
*However*, it seems this is tricky. I have a friend who had a work permit + Visa... he made a new passport at the US Embassy recently. Upon getting his Visa transferred to his new passport - they (the staff at Chaeng Wattana?) *also* included a big list of his previous Visas/entries/etc on the first pages of his new passport.
I have another friend, who had *no* Visa at all - he was just here on a 30-day Arrival. He made a new passport also - and said he had *nothing* added to his passport when he left Thailand. (could that be true?)
I don't have any information about what happens with a Tourist Visa. If I make a new passport in Bangkok... what will happen if I don't bother going to Chaeng Wattana (to move the Visa), and just show up at the airport with- my old passport, my new passport, and my letter from the Embassy. Someone told me, that they think airport immigration will notate something in my new passport - thus, rendering my new passport not 'clean'. This would defeat the purpose of getting a new passport.

If leaving the country, on a new passport with *no* Visa actually works (works = they don't notate anything in your new passport), then that presents a 4th option:
 - Hop out of Thailand in November, hop back in with *no* Visa. Make a new Passport. Leave on that passport. Voila(?)! The potential issue being - can I be sure airport immigration will allow me back into Thailand, in November, when my passport has less than 6 months of validity? If this is, potentially, a problem - would having a copy of my appointment/reservation at the US Embassy solve that?

Thanks for any help.

[ubonjoe]

When you to immigration to have your stamp transferred they do not make big list of all your previous entries to the country since they have records of those in their database.  They only do a stamp where they put info about the visa you used for entry and your old passport, your entry stamp and extension of stay stamp.

The only thing that goes away when you get a new passport is all your visa stickers which ends your history for those as far as embassies and consulates are concerned.

With a visa exempt entry there would only be a entry stamp to transfer to your new passport so they can stamp you out of the country in it.

[hapacadabra]

Quote

When you to immigration to have your stamp transferred they do not make big list of all your previous entries to the country since they have records of those in their database.

My friend showed me his new passport. I have pictures of it. Chaeng Wattana added a big list of his previous Visas to his new passport. I am, also, currently in Thailand, with a Visa - albeit a Tourist Visa. So I am unclear whether I would get the same treatment, should I show up to CW. I don't want to voluntarily go to CW, anyway - why waste a day there when I can just show up at the airport with both passports, and my letter from the embassy?

 

I have a friend, who *thinks*, that if I try to exit with a new passport, that airport immigration will notate something in the new passport - ie, this person had Visa #X, and entered/exited on these days - this will go in my *new* passport. I am trying to confirm whether or not this is true. And if it is true - then I think I am better off making a new passport somewhere else. OR - the final Option that I listed in my first post - where I exit, re-enter with no Visa - and *then* make a new passport.

 

The goal is to be able to show up to any consulate, with a fresh/clean passport, and freely get more Tourist Visas. I don't want to get a new passport, only to have airport immigration included a note about a Visa in there.

[ubonjoe]

3 minutes ago, hapacadabra said:

My friend showed me his new passport. I have pictures of it. Chaeng Wattana added a big list of his previous Visas to his new passport. I am, also, currently in Thailand, with a Visa - albeit a Tourist Visa. So I am unclear whether I would get the same treatment, should I show up to CW. I don't want to voluntarily go to CW, anyway - why waste a day there when I can just show up at the airport with both passports, and my letter from the embassy?

I think the might of done a notations of his previous extension of stay not visas. But I have never heard of that even being done.

All that is cleared out is your previous visa stickers and that is all that an embassy or consulate looks for when you apply for a visa.

When I got a new passport immigration only did the stamp with info about the visa and passport. The entry stamp I got from the visa. And my most recent extension of stay stamp.

You don have to go to Chaeng Wattana to have your stamps transferred. It can be done on departure from the country.

[tonray]

13 minutes ago, hapacadabra said:

The goal is to be able to show up to any consulate, with a fresh/clean passport, and freely get more Tourist Visas. I don't want to get a new passport, only to have airport immigration included a note about a Visa in there.

But all of your entries and Visa history will still be in the database accessed by the IO when you try to enter the country. Having the Visa does not ensure entry.

[hapacadabra]

11 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

I have never heard of that even being done.

Sent you a private message.

 

9 minutes ago, tonray said:

But all of your entries and Visa history will still be in the database accessed by the IO when you try to enter the country. Having the Visa does not ensure entry.

Is that because the new passport will have the same number? I have friends who, for example, have passports from different countries - and they just rotate them in and out - and immigration certainly doesn't care that someone with the same name/birthday is entering over and over, for years, on Tourist Visas.

 

But, this would be a separate issue. If immigration wants to stop me - so be it. As it pertains to a clean passport - if I can keep my passport clean... then I want to keep my passport clean.

[Paduppa]

Being in almost the same situation and having the same purpose, want a clean passport.

Planing to get the Visa Exemption +30 Extension as the last use before getting a new US passport from Thailand.

Look forward to hearing from you all. 

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, hapacadabra said:

 

1 hour ago, tonray said:

But all of your entries and Visa history will still be in the database accessed by the IO when you try to enter the country. Having the Visa does not ensure entry.

Is that because the new passport will have the same number?

No, it is because they link the passports by country, name, DOB, etc - and use photos to rule out any duplicates.  Your new and old passport-history will be linked, even if you don't get a new passport in Thailand, when you enter on the new one.

 

Immigration will have all your info on their screen every time you enter.  Not "seeing all those stamps" may help from a psychological perspective, but will not change the data accessible to the IO.  

 

A note of one previous visa-entry in a new passport *might* be added to a consulate's visa-count, affecting whether or not you get a "red stamp" on your new Tourist Visa - but I have not heard anything definitive on this.  I considered getting my next passport out of Thailand, just in case it would allow one more TR Visa from a neighboring-country consulate in the new one.

 

1 hour ago, hapacadabra said:

My friend showed me his new passport. I have pictures of it. Chaeng Wattana added a big list of his previous Visas to his new passport

If you cannot post this picture due to privacy concerns, please list the specific type of info they copied to the new passport. 

 

In my experience, Immigration only notes the type of visa or permit-of-stay from the old passport, in the new one.  This provides a reference to the departure-stamp, which can only be stamped in the new (valid) passport.

 

If the worst-case scenario of what you described is now being done to frequent and/or longer-stay visitors, then we need to warn people to get their new passport issued in a neighboring country.  

 

It is no secret that some IOs do not think the existing laws/ministerial-regulations on Tourist Visas are strict enough, and a move like this could be their way of attempting to make obtaining new Tourist Visas more difficult.

Edited October 17, 2017 by JackThompson

[BritTim]

If on a tourist entry, and planning to leave Thailand by air (or major land borders) there is no need to do anything with your new passport prior to departure. When you leave, you show both your old and new passports. All that will be transferred is the last entry stamp, plus an annotation referring back to the old passport. (Allow a little time for this formality.) The new passport will not contain a record of your old visas, entries and exits apart from your most recent entry.

As emphasized above, where you get your new passport is pretty irrelevant as far as Thailand immigration is concerned. Flying to Hong Kong to renew your visa will not erase anything from Thailand immigration's system related to your immigration history.

[hapacadabra]

Quote

Re: me + Ubonjoe's private message

Long story short - Immigration added a lot of information about his extensive history in Thailand, into his new passport. I am looking to avoid this. So I am looking for wisdom as to whether... someone who has only ever had Tourist or Edu Visas would get similar treatment. Does "extensions of stay" mean only 1-year work-permit situations? Or does me extending a 60-day TV to 90-days (which I have done many times) also qualify as an "extension of stay"? Do all those 90-day visits to CW on my previous Edu Visas qualify as "extensions of stay"? Do all of these get added into my new passport if I bring it to CW?

 

^ But all of this is potentially irrelevant (for me, anyway) - because I am not actually looking to go to CW to have anything transferred. I am just looking to exit via the airport.

 

Really it boils down to 1 specific question: will airport immigration add old Visa/entry/whatever-information to your new passport, when you try to exit Thailand with a new passport.

[ubonjoe]

55 minutes ago, hapacadabra said:

Sent you a private message.

Due to forum issues I cannot insert the image you sent me after editing it to remove personal details. As I told you in my reply to your PM they are all entry stamps related to his extension of stay. One is his entry on a tourist visa and another one after he changed  that entry to a non-b visa entry. And his last entry using a re-entry permit.

55 minutes ago, hapacadabra said:

Is that because the new passport will have the same number? I have friends who, for example, have passports from different countries - and they just rotate them in and out - and immigration certainly doesn't care that someone with the same name/birthday is entering over and over, for years, on Tourist Visas.

Immigration will link the old and new passports when you enter the country the first time using the new passport. The system does it by way of a name, date of birth and nationality search.

They will also link passports from different countries.

[ubonjoe]

2 minutes ago, hapacadabra said:

Long story short - Immigration added a lot of information about his extensive history in Thailand, into his new passport. I am looking to avoid this. So I am looking for wisdom as to whether... someone who has only ever had Tourist or Edu Visas would get similar treatment. Does "extensions of stay" mean only 1-year work-permit situations? Or does me extending a 60-day TV to 90-days (which I have done many times) also qualify as an "extension of stay"? Do all those 90-day visits to CW on my previous Edu Visas qualify as "extensions of stay"? Do all of these get added into my new passport if I bring it to CW?

 

^ But all of this is potentially irrelevant (for me, anyway) - because I am not actually looking to go to CW to have anything transferred. I am just looking to exit via the airport.

 

Really it boils down to 1 specific question: will airport immigration add old Visa/entry/whatever-information to your new passport, when you try to exit Thailand with a new passport.

I don't think 3 entry stamps is a lot of stamps. It was everything related to his extension of stay based upon working here and his last entry using a re-entry permit from his extension.

 

 

[Mattd]

3 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

I don't think 3 entry stamps is a lot of stamps. It was everything related to his extension of stay based upon working here and his last entry using a re-entry permit from his extension.

 

 

This is normal as most using extensions know, it is not unusual for the first two pages of a new passport to be used for the transfer if on an extension, for a stamp for the change of passport details, transferred extension stamp plus re-entry permit (if have), details of the original visa type including the date, point and mode of original entry on that visa and of course the last entry stamp details.

[JackThompson]

16 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

... they (notes in new passport) are all entry stamps related to his extension of stay. One is his entry on a tourist visa and another one after he changed  that entry to a non-b visa entry. And his last entry using a re-entry permit.

That sounds like it is one "entry chain."  The list got long because he did a conversion from TR to Non-B, then added a re-entry permit (which does not count as  'new entry'). 

If this is the case, it does not appear they are making a list of tourist-visas or visa-exempt entries from the old passport. 

[hapacadabra]

So if I (and people in my situation) are reading the advice correctly...

 

it's that, the airport *will* put a notation listing my previous passport number, *but*, that this shouldn't really scare me, because immigration will know exactly who I am, regardless? Even without any notation - when I return to Thailand with my new passport - they know me, and all my entries/exits.

 

The only benefit is potentially at the consulate-level? IE - if/when I go to make a new Visa somewhere, the consulate will either see a notation (if I make the passport in Thailand), or they see nothing (if I make the passport elsewhere). Little-to-no benefit there, I imagine?

[Mattd]

22 minutes ago, hapacadabra said:

So if I (and people in my situation) are reading the advice correctly...

 

it's that, the airport *will* put a notation listing my previous passport number, *but*, that this shouldn't really scare me, because immigration will know exactly who I am, regardless? Even without any notation - when I return to Thailand with my new passport - they know me, and all my entries/exits.

 

The only benefit is potentially at the consulate-level? IE - if/when I go to make a new Visa somewhere, the consulate will either see a notation (if I make the passport in Thailand), or they see nothing (if I make the passport elsewhere). Little-to-no benefit there, I imagine?

Spot on!

Only advantage being when applying for tourist visas at those embassies or consulates that count the number you get in one passport and refuse after so many, a new passport would only reset this.

[007 RED]

36 minutes ago, hapacadabra said:

So if I (and people in my situation) are reading the advice correctly...

 

it's that, the airport *will* put a notation listing my previous passport number, *but*, that this shouldn't really scare me, because immigration will know exactly who I am, regardless? Even without any notation - when I return to Thailand with my new passport - they know me, and all my entries/exits.

 

The only benefit is potentially at the consulate-level? IE - if/when I go to make a new Visa somewhere, the consulate will either see a notation (if I make the passport in Thailand), or they see nothing (if I make the passport elsewhere). Little-to-no benefit there, I imagine?

If you have a new passport prior to leaving Thailand immigration may, or may not, put a notation regarding your previous passport and or entry history into your new one.  Even if they do not put anything into your new passport when you leave the immigration system will automatically link your new and old passports the moment the immigration officer scans the new passport photo page and they will be able to see your entry/exit history on their screen.  So any notation is of no consequence as far as immigration is concerned.

 

The only bonus of you getting a new passport outside Thailand will be if you apply for a new visa.  The embassy/consulate will not be aware of your history as they do not have direct access to the immigration system.  However, you should be aware that the issuing of a visa is not a guarantee of entry.  Entry is given at the discretion of the immigration officer at the point of entry (and they will be able see your previous entry/exit history).

Edited October 17, 2017 by 007 RED
Typo

[Rama]

you are required to go to immigration when you get a new passport to transfer your visa to the new passport from your old passport. If I remember, it must be reported within 2 or 4 weeks of the issuance of the new passport. You can't just show up at the airport with a clean passport and leave the country. You'll raise all kind of red flags with immigration at the airport if you try it; be pulled over, maybe fined, etc.

[hapacadabra]

10 minutes ago, Rama said:

you are required to go to immigration when you get a new passport to transfer your visa to the new passport from your old passport. If I remember, it must be reported within 2 or 4 weeks of the issuance of the new passport. You can't just show up at the airport with a clean passport and leave the country. You'll raise all kind of red flags with immigration at the airport if you try it; be pulled over, maybe fined, etc.

There will only be something like... 7-10 days from the time I get my passport, to the time I will leave. My Visa expires less than 30 days from now, and I have not yet reserved an appointment with the US Embassy. I don't think I will be surpassing any 2-4 week requirement-limit.

[ubonjoe]

21 minutes ago, Rama said:

you are required to go to immigration when you get a new passport to transfer your visa to the new passport from your old passport. If I remember, it must be reported within 2 or 4 weeks of the issuance of the new passport. You can't just show up at the airport with a clean passport and leave the country. You'll raise all kind of red flags with immigration at the airport if you try it; be pulled over, maybe fined, etc.

There is no rule that states how long you have to transfer your stamps. Visas are not transferred.

No problem to do the transfer at an airport unless you are on a long term extension of stay (90 days or more). Just show both passports on departure from the country.

What do you think a person could be fined for? There is no such fine.

[darrendsd]

25 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

There is no rule that states how long you have to transfer your stamps. Visas are not transferred.

No problem to do the transfer at an airport unless you are on a long term extension of stay (90 days or more). Just show both passports on departure from the country.

What do you think a person could be fined for? There is no such fine.

Quick question Joe, if you are on a 30 day VE, apply for a new PP but it has not arrived by the end of your 30 days can you still get your 30 day extension at Immigration in your current PP?

 

British PP btw

 

My feeling is yes but would be nice if you could confirm?

[ubonjoe]

9 minutes ago, darrendsd said:

Quick question Joe, if you are on a 30 day VE, apply for a new PP but it has not arrived by the end of your 30 days can you still get your 30 day extension at Immigration in your current PP?

Yes you can.

[overherebc]

My feeling is that if the OP gets a new passport and his old passport has not been cancelled, stamped as cancelled or corner cut off, he could leave on his old passport and doesn't need to show his new passport. This assumes he gets the new one issued prior to the expiry of his tourist visa.

Imm' are not informed when you get a new passport.

I don't know if the US embassy cancel the old passport or not or how they do it, but, if they put a large 'cancelled' stamp on the details page or cut a corner off then the OP has no other choice than to show both on leaving Thailand.

[overherebc]

2 hours ago, Rama said:

you are required to go to immigration when you get a new passport to transfer your visa to the new passport from your old passport. If I remember, it must be reported within 2 or 4 weeks of the issuance of the new passport. You can't just show up at the airport with a clean passport and leave the country. You'll raise all kind of red flags with immigration at the airport if you try it; be pulled over, maybe fined, etc.

I've had 3 new passports issued in Thailand and never reported to an Immigration office anywhere. Just handed old and new to the IO at the airport and he noted the details of my multi O in the new one.

Entered again sometimes a week, sometimes six weeks later and just used the new passport.

There is no time limit to 'report' nor is there 'fine' for not doing so.

[overherebc]

54 minutes ago, overherebc said:

I've had 3 new passports issued in Thailand and never reported to an Immigration office anywhere. Just handed old and new to the IO at the airport and he noted the details of my multi O in the new one.

Entered again sometimes a week, sometimes six weeks later and just used the new passport.

There is no time limit to 'report' nor is there 'fine' for not doing so.

I did want to edit but couldn't get through to TV for while.

If you are on an extension of stay then you go to Imm' and have it transferred to your new passport, but I'm sure there is no time limit or fine after a certain time.

[lopezkoa]

If i apply for a new passport under visa exempt, do i just stamp out on the new passport while showing my old passport?

[JackThompson]

2 hours ago, lopezkoa said:

If i apply for a new passport under visa exempt, do i just stamp out on the new passport while showing my old passport?

Yes.  That is when they add a note about your existing permit-of-stay in the new passport.

 

4 hours ago, overherebc said:

My feeling is that if the OP gets a new passport and his old passport has not been cancelled, stamped as cancelled or corner cut off, he could leave on his old passport and doesn't need to show his new passport. This assumes he gets the new one issued prior to the expiry of his tourist visa.

Imm' are not informed when you get a new passport.

I don't know if the US embassy cancel the old passport or not or how they do it, but, if they put a large 'cancelled' stamp on the details page or cut a corner off then the OP has no other choice than to show both on leaving Thailand.

The US Embassy cuts the corner or hole-punches the old passport when they give you the new one. 

 

If you choose to make a 2nd trip to pick up the new passport, you can keep the old one until that time. 

 

Alternatively, they will offer to take your old one when you apply, hand you a letter explaining why you temporarily don't have a passport, and then mail you both back when the new one arrives (with the old-one 'canceled' via cut/punch).

Edited October 17, 2017 by JackThompson

[gk10002000]

16 hours ago, hapacadabra said:

Sent you a private message.

 

Is that because the new passport will have the same number? I have friends who, for example, have passports from different countries - and they just rotate them in and out - and immigration certainly doesn't care that someone with the same name/birthday is entering over and over, for years, on Tourist Visas.

 

But, this would be a separate issue. If immigration wants to stop me - so be it. As it pertains to a clean passport - if I can keep my passport clean... then I want to keep my passport clean.

The "new" passport will not have the same number.

[gk10002000]

5 hours ago, JackThompson said:

Yes.  That is when they add a note about your existing permit-of-stay in the new passport.

 

The US Embassy cuts the corner or hole-punches the old passport when they give you the new one. 

 

If you choose to make a 2nd trip to pick up the new passport, you can keep the old one until that time. 

 

Alternatively, they will offer to take your old one when you apply, hand you a letter explaining why you temporarily don't have a passport, and then mail you both back when the new one arrives (with the old-one 'canceled' via cut/punch).

They punch the hole here in the USA when you get a replacement passport at the US Post Office. I recently did it after having put my old passport through the wash and went to the Post Office to apply for a replacement/new passport

[overherebc]

7 hours ago, JackThompson said:

Yes.  That is when they add a note about your existing permit-of-stay in the new passport.

 

The US Embassy cuts the corner or hole-punches the old passport when they give you the new one. 

 

If you choose to make a 2nd trip to pick up the new passport, you can keep the old one until that time. 

 

Alternatively, they will offer to take your old one when you apply, hand you a letter explaining why you temporarily don't have a passport, and then mail you both back when the new one arrives (with the old-one 'canceled' via cut/punch).

Similar system to UK.