New or used motorcycle (Ducati) in Thailand

[bkksteve123]

Hi,

 

Lately I've been looking to buy another bike, specifically looking at the Ducati Monster 821.

 

The price of a new one (2017 model) is exactly 500k thb.

 

I've also looked around at second hand options on Facebook groups and Kaidee, and seeing some 2015 and 2016 models ranging from 290k - 360k with milage as low as 5000km.

 

QUESTION 1)

My first question is, why are Ducati's depreciating so fast in Thailand?

 

I bought a Triumph T100 this year, and looking at second hand T100's they seem to keep they value significantly better compared to Ducatis  i.e. after 2 years the asking prices are still around 350-400k for second hand 2015 models (new one is 440k at the moment of writing, so only a 10-20% depreciation)

 

QUESTION 2)

I know the general things to look out for when buying second hand motorcyles, but is there something specific to Thailand that I should be considering?

 

It seems to me that the much wiser deal is to buy a used 2016 Monster 821 for around 300-350k. And let's say I ride it for a year, then most likely the value would still be around 300k depending on the milage of course.

 

Whereas if I buy a new one for 500k, drive it off the lot and the value is 400k. After 1 year maybe 350k.

 

Am I missing something?

 

/S

[CMKiwi]

I think you have it pretty well summed up.  A few years ago Ducati was having a few problems with reliability of their machines...perhaps a bit of mistrust within the market was a result.

 

It appears Ducati Thailand has sorted out these issues although a few reports still come in as to their after sales service which apparently is quite expensive and somewhat slow. Reports of customers taking in their bikes for a service (Which they had to book in advance) only to be told on pick up that there are other problems.

 

The bike then sat in the workshop for 3 weeks until parts were sourced.  This has not sat well with the customers.

 

As an aside I saw a convoy of Hypermotards out my way (Mae Rim, Chiang Mai) on Sunday just gone.  Personally I do like the look and sound of that model, there must have been at least 10 of them...and I was jealous!

[bkksteve123]

2 hours ago, CMKiwi said:

I think you have it pretty well summed up.  A few years ago Ducati was having a few problems with reliability of their machines...perhaps a bit of mistrust within the market was a result.

 

It appears Ducati Thailand has sorted out these issues although a few reports still come in as to their after sales service which apparently is quite expensive and somewhat slow. Reports of customers taking in their bikes for a service (Which they had to book in advance) only to be told on pick up that there are other problems.

 

The bike then sat in the workshop for 3 weeks until parts were sourced.  This has not sat well with the customers.

 

As an aside I saw a convoy of Hypermotards out my way (Mae Rim, Chiang Mai) on Sunday just gone.  Personally I do like the look and sound of that model, there must have been at least 10 of them...and I was jealous!

Thanks for the reply.

 

I heard about similar horror stories regarding service (waiting for spare parts for months) when I asked around.

 

So do I understand correctly that the 2014, 2015 and 2016 models may be lemons, and thus the unusual depreciation in value? Consumers are pricing in the fact that these bikes will have a high maintenance cost and there is a mistrust for the models manufactured in those years?

 

Could this mean (in your opinion) that were I to buy a new 2017 model, then the value would not depreciate as fast as the previous models? In that case I would go for a new one.

 

I also heared about high service costs and asked about it at the dealer, they have significantly brought down the cost and service intervals (they showed me the cost/schedule), nothing unusual there, about the same as with my Triumph and any other manufacturer I assume. I wonder if the new `lower service costs are only for the new bikes and old bikes will have the older pricing? Any ideas?

 

I tested the new Hypermotard 939 yesterday and that thing is a beast! Didn't like the driving position at first, changing gears was a pain, but I can see myself getting used to it. Very fun bike!

[thaiguzzi]

I've been looking at S/H air cooled Monsters myself, from old S2r 1000's (my fave) to the modern EVO 796 (single side s/arm not the cheapo 795) to the EVO 1000-1100's. Pick up a mint 3 y/o 796 with all the farkles for 230k. Prices are very competitive these days for a lot of S/H m/cycles, not just Ducati. About the only silly prices I see are with newish HD's. Even some bargain Speed Triples out there.

 

[CMKiwi]

The past problems MAY be similar to the past problems of KTM. The original sole franchise holder was not really customer orientated... Head office stood in and changed the management removing the kingpin.  Overnight prices dropped significantly on all new bikes much to the chagrin of current KTM owners.

 

 This simple act restored some respect to KTM Thailand and customers therafter felt more secure with their machines.

 

  I dont know the current situation with Ducati Thailand so cannot comment re the new stable of bikes.  I just know they look damn good and go like the clappers.

[eisfeld]

I think there's a new Monster coming soon. Not sure why they'd keep the 821 engine around when there's the 939. Ducati has sent an invitation to jounralists for a naked bike reveal in the coming days. Maybe a Monster 939 coming? If so, that should give another boost to depreciation of the 821.

 

There have been a lot of problems in the past with Ducati service if you are outside BKK. BKK has some good mechanics. I see the new Ducati dealer in Phuket also investing a lot in new dealership and more staff, changed all mechanics. So there's big improvements being done. Maybe they improved parts availability and prices, quite a few insurance companies stopped insuring Ducatis because of the high costs and lots of claims.

 

There are many more Ducatis out there than Triumphs. The larger the second hand market, the lower the prices due to competition. Triumphs newest models are fairly recent and much lower numbers. Ducati is selling many more bikes, has been around longer (in Thailand) and has many new models every year. That's not good for depreciation :)

[Pdaz]

When I bought my Duc ( A sport 1000 biposto ) from Ducati Bkk several years ago the service was excellent. There weren't any cheap Thai manufactured Ducatis back then just full fat imported bikes.

You were treated as a real VIP as I remember being massively impressed with their staffs service, command of English and punctuality. Fast forward some years to a few of my friends buying Ducati bikes in Pattaya and there seemed to be a seachange in quality and service. Monsters became a common sight piloted by locals. Guess a reduction in service accompanied the reduction in price.

[bkksteve123]

2 hours ago, eisfeld said:

I think there's a new Monster coming soon. Not sure why they'd keep the 821 engine around when there's the 939. Ducati has sent an invitation to jounralists for a naked bike reveal in the coming days. Maybe a Monster 939 coming? If so, that should give another boost to depreciation of the 821.

 

There have been a lot of problems in the past with Ducati service if you are outside BKK. BKK has some good mechanics. I see the new Ducati dealer in Phuket also investing a lot in new dealership and more staff, changed all mechanics. So there's big improvements being done. Maybe they improved parts availability and prices, quite a few insurance companies stopped insuring Ducatis because of the high costs and lots of claims.

 

There are many more Ducatis out there than Triumphs. The larger the second hand market, the lower the prices due to competition. Triumphs newest models are fairly recent and much lower numbers. Ducati is selling many more bikes, has been around longer (in Thailand) and has many new models every year. That's not good for depreciation :)

That makes a lot of sense what you say regarding the size of the second hand market for Ducatis. There are so many out there at the moment.

 

I also read rumours about a Monster 939, and it makes sense they would upgrade the 821 to 939, since that's exactly what they did with the Hypermotard (from 821 to 939).

 

If they release a Monster 939 then I guess that would be Q1 or Q2 2018? If that is the case then there's really absolutely no point in buying a new 821 now. I will wait and see, either go with a second hand 821 which hopefully drops even more in price when a 939 is launched, or just go for a new 939.

[bkksteve123]

Well this is confusing, a new Monster 821 apparently unveiled yesterday.

 

So let's see what happens: "The 2018 Ducati Monster 821 is the first of the five new 2018 Ducati models. The other motorcycles will be revealed at the Ducati World Premier on Sunday, November 5, 2017."

 

 

Edited October 18, 2017 by bkksteve123
link

[eisfeld]

Interesting that they kept the 821 engine, thx I missed that they already did the unveil yesterday. Seems like no game changing upgrades apart from maybe the availability of quickshifter/autoblipper as an option. Might affect the existing 821 resale but probably not by a big amount. I was sure though that someone at Ducati told me they'd bring a Monster 939. And they made it a bit of a secret not telling journalists what's going to be unveiled and now it's just a small-ish upgrade for the Monster 821? Expected a bit more. Though I guess any reveal before EICMA can't be too big, they wont the big guns for the show. Maybe a Monster 939 coming next month anyways? But that would be weird as well. Dunno, in either case I think it's never good to buy a bike or decide to buy one just before the big unveilings of new bikes at EICMA. Can never hurt to wait another 3 weeks.

[bkksteve123]

8 minutes ago, eisfeld said:

Interesting that they kept the 821 engine, thx I missed that they already did the unveil yesterday. Seems like no game changing upgrades apart from maybe the availability of quickshifter/autoblipper as an option. Might affect the existing 821 resale but probably not by a big amount. I was sure though that someone at Ducati told me they'd bring a Monster 939. And they made it a bit of a secret not telling journalists what's going to be unveiled and now it's just a small-ish upgrade for the Monster 821? Expected a bit more. Though I guess any reveal before EICMA can't be too big, they wont the big guns for the show. Maybe a Monster 939 coming next month anyways? But that would be weird as well. Dunno, in either case I think it's never good to buy a bike or decide to buy one just before the big unveilings of new bikes at EICMA. Can never hurt to wait another 3 weeks.

Was thinking the same.

 

Obviously they are keeping the 803cc (797) and 1200cc lineup in tact, and now with this new 821 confirmed it seems unlikely that they would release a 4th Monster with 939.

 

797

939

1200

 

That^^ would have made a lot more sense for them from a marketing perspective.

 

Having said that, the new 939 engine on Hypermotard doesn't really have much more power (1 or 2 HP?), and only slightly more torque so in terms of performance it's not a big deal.

[JonnyF]

20 hours ago, thaiguzzi said:

I've been looking at S/H air cooled Monsters myself, from old S2r 1000's (my fave) to the modern EVO 796 (single side s/arm not the cheapo 795) to the EVO 1000-1100's. Pick up a mint 3 y/o 796 with all the farkles for 230k. Prices are very competitive these days for a lot of S/H m/cycles, not just Ducati. About the only silly prices I see are with newish HD's. Even some bargain Speed Triples out there.

 

Me too. Those 795/6 are excellent value now, I've seen low mileage ones in the low 200k bracket. As far as I know they are pretty reliable bikes and look/sound fantastic with a few simple tasteful mods (tail tidy/indicators/seat cowl).

 

I joined a group of about 10 Thais riding in Rayong for a few kms a few weeks back. A couple of Z1000's, CBR650's , MT07 etc. and it was the Monster 796 in the group that really stood out. Really lovely looking bikes. 

 

There are loads of bargains out there now, saw a Z1000 for 250k the other day. An almost new MT07 for 200k etc. I guess that's what happens when the Z900 and MT09 are available at under 400k brand new. The market has totally transformed in the last 6-7 years.

[VocalNeal]

Service and maintenance for Ducati has always been expensive, doesn't matter where you live. It has always been thus. Setting up valve clearances is a long and tedious job.  It is akin to owning a Ferrari. Don't expect anything to be cheap. You buy the bike because you like it not for reasons of economy.

 

I had a Pantah engine Cagiva luckily I didn't ride it enough to worry about valve clearances. Somewhere in Bangkok there is an independent guy who does good work on them and makes a living same as where i lived. Finding him is the problem , same as it is anywhere.

 

Waiting for parts. I have a mate with a small Harley. He had to wait for an oil seal  "to come from Singapore" when it could have been sourced from any decent local bearing shop! 

 

Now what about MVAgusta 

Edited October 19, 2017 by VocalNeal

[eisfeld]

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

Me too. Those 795/6 are excellent value now, I've seen low mileage ones in the low 200k bracket. As far as I know they are pretty reliable bikes and look/sound fantastic with a few simple tasteful mods (tail tidy/indicators/seat cowl).

I agree totally. The 796 is still a good bike, the engine shouldn't implode after 50k km and imho with Termis it's the best sounding Ducati that is relatively easy to get ahold of. My Scrambler has the same 803cc air cooled engine and sounds pretty good. But the 796 sounds better. I've never ridden one but I did ride the 821 and I liked the throttle a bit more there compared to my Scrambler. The 821 is quite a bit more refined but sometimes roughness is what draws people to Ducatis... :)

 

If OP isn't sure if he's gonna keep the bike for more than 1-2 years (Ducatis are not for everyone) then a second hand one can be a great choice. If he can sell the bike a bit later for nearly the same price, that's a hell of a bang for the buck for the fun he'll have.

 

I think another factor when it comes to second hand Ducati market is that many people in Thailand run into a combination of wanting a status symbol (which Ducatis are very much here) as well as being not the best in terms of personal financial planing. So they get bikes that might be expensive to maintain while running a tight budget and then when the income drops they have no choice but to sell.

[JaiLai]

On 18/10/2017 at 10:05 AM, CMKiwi said:

I think you have it pretty well summed up.  A few years ago Ducati was having a few problems with reliability of their machines...perhaps a bit of mistrust within the market was a result.

 

It appears Ducati Thailand has sorted out these issues although a few reports still come in as to their after sales service which apparently is quite expensive and somewhat slow. Reports of customers taking in their bikes for a service (Which they had to book in advance) only to be told on pick up that there are other problems.

 

The bike then sat in the workshop for 3 weeks until parts were sourced.  This has not sat well with the customers.

 

As an aside I saw a convoy of Hypermotards out my way (Mae Rim, Chiang Mai) on Sunday just gone.  Personally I do like the look and sound of that model, there must have been at least 10 of them...and I was jealous!

Bought a 939 Hypomotard in Feb, it's a riot.

 

Just recently did Mae Hong Son loop last week along with a Diavel / FT scramble / 821 monster, great fun.

 

Customer service is a shocker, i've experienced complete muppets at Pattaya branch and KK branch and now only go to head office BKK.

 

I also filled in the complaint form on Ducati website about the service and received a phone call from Italy the next day, i told the lady exactly about the non existing customer service.

 

They carry nothing in stock, 'order from BKK', failing that 'order from Italy' - crazy....

[Xaos]

I got Ducati 821 bought it new. Its got 25k km now. Never had any serious problems with it.

Its nice ride.

Check bmw s1000r

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

[CMKiwi]

Very sad to hear that their after sales service is still so bad..apart from BKK that is.  One would hope that head office in Italy will do something to sort it out.  Perhaps senior management (Italian) will arrive at their doorstep and make an offer they cannot refuse.... sort your business out or you wont have one.

 

Lets hope the Ducati Thailand pull up their socks and do the job/service that they are paid to do. Possibly wishful thinking on my behalf?

[guzzi850m2]

Some very good posts here.

 

Interesting you can get a Ducati 2nd hand so cheap now but check the odometer reading carefully against the service book, tampering with the odometer happens often.

 

[JaiLai]

6 hours ago, guzzi850m2 said:

Some very good posts here.

 

Interesting you can get a Ducati 2nd hand so cheap now but check the odometer reading carefully against the service book, tampering with the odometer happens often.

 

I'd imagine it's almost impossible to fiddle with the odometer with all the electronics nowadays.

[JaiLai]

9 hours ago, CMKiwi said:

Very sad to hear that their after sales service is still so bad..apart from BKK that is.  One would hope that head office in Italy will do something to sort it out.  Perhaps senior management (Italian) will arrive at their doorstep and make an offer they cannot refuse.... sort your business out or you wont have one.

 

Lets hope the Ducati Thailand pull up their socks and do the job/service that they are paid to do. Possibly wishful thinking on my behalf?

I believe 'Ducati BKK' is an authorised dealer as opposed to the other ones in KK / Pattaya / CM etc which are only franchises....

 

 

[Lucky33]

On 10/23/2017 at 3:20 PM, JaiLai said:

Bought a 939 Hypomotard in Feb, it's a riot.

 

Just recently did Mae Hong Son loop last week along with a Diavel / FT scramble / 821 monster, great fun.

 

Customer service is a shocker, i've experienced complete muppets at Pattaya branch and KK branch and now only go to head office BKK.

 

I also filled in the complaint form on Ducati website about the service and received a phone call from Italy the next day, i told the lady exactly about the non existing customer service.

 

They carry nothing in stock, 'order from BKK', failing that 'order from Italy' - crazy....

 

I've been one of Ducati Pattaya's harshest critics the last few years. I first bought a Monster 800 in 2012 and then traded up to a Diavel in 2013. I still have the Diavel and I still enjoy riding it but service at Ducati Pattaya was terrible, one time when it needed two new pressure sensors they kept my bike almost two months waiting for parts. Also when I wanted to take it in to have it serviced they made me make an appointment and the soonest I could take it in was two weeks after I made the appointment. That was terrible service. 

 

Here lately I've had to take it in a couple of times for service and I called and made an appointment for the next day. Both times the bike was ready the afternoon of the same day and one time it was for new pressure sensors, the same thing that they had kept my bike for six weeks to repair before. I've been a regular at their shop now for five years and they have completely changed their staff, I didn't see one person there my last visit that was there two years ago. They still don't speak much English but IMO they are heading in the right direction. Maybe the Ducati service issue in Pattaya will soon be a thing of the past, I hope so . 

 

[JaiLai]

7 hours ago, Lucky33 said:

 

I've been one of Ducati Pattaya's harshest critics the last few years. I first bought a Monster 800 in 2012 and then traded up to a Diavel in 2013. I still have the Diavel and I still enjoy riding it but service at Ducati Pattaya was terrible, one time when it needed two new pressure sensors they kept my bike almost two months waiting for parts. Also when I wanted to take it in to have it serviced they made me make an appointment and the soonest I could take it in was two weeks after I made the appointment. That was terrible service. 

 

Here lately I've had to take it in a couple of times for service and I called and made an appointment for the next day. Both times the bike was ready the afternoon of the same day and one time it was for new pressure sensors, the same thing that they had kept my bike for six weeks to repair before. I've been a regular at their shop now for five years and they have completely changed their staff, I didn't see one person there my last visit that was there two years ago. They still don't speak much English but IMO they are heading in the right direction. Maybe the Ducati service issue in Pattaya will soon be a thing of the past, I hope so . 

 

Upon complaining to head office i've had an e-mail from the manageress in Pattaya ( a young farang lady ), she mentioned the purpose of her coming onboard is to improve the customer service with the local staff ( good luck with that ).

I took my Full Throttle to Bangkok yesterday for Desmo service, head office in Rangsit. The service and knowledge of the staff there is fantastic, i'll only go there from now on. Only problem with this branch is it could hurt ones wallet!!!

The amount of bikes in and out there, the size of their workshop and amount of staff is pretty impressive.

 

Hypomotard is due a service soon, i've no worries about taking it there.

 

I asked the sales manager for a 3 day test drive of the new Multi strada 950 and he laughed at me, he did however say i could take it out first thing in the morning and return in the evening, better than the 15 minutes you get offered elsewhere.

[Lucky33]

   Another shop in Pattaya that does excellent repair work on Ducatis is X-Rider Superbikes. I've taken mine there several times and I've always been pleased with their service. They are located out on the road that runs parallel to Sukumvit beside the railroad track. https://www.facebook.com/Xridersuperbike/

[JaiLai]

8 hours ago, Lucky33 said:

   Another shop in Pattaya that does excellent repair work on Ducatis is X-Rider Superbikes. I've taken mine there several times and I've always been pleased with their service. They are located out on the road that runs parallel to Sukumvit beside the railroad track. https://www.facebook.com/Xridersuperbike/

Yeah, i've got a friend that uses this place.

[soihok]

I bought a new 939 Hypermotard in July from Korat Ducati, not seen it yet as have been away since (lol).

Brother in law is running it around, no reports of any problems up to now.

Not tested the Korat Ducati service yet, will do some time next year though, or possibly end of this year if I get the miles on it.

Regarding waiting for services:-

I ride an MT-09 in Singapore, at the main dealer you need to book about a month in advance for a service slot.

Luckily there are many alternatives and as you know the place is small.

 

[JaiLai]

2 hours ago, soihok said:

I bought a new 939 Hypermotard in July from Korat Ducati, not seen it yet as have been away since (lol).

Brother in law is running it around, no reports of any problems up to now.

Not tested the Korat Ducati service yet, will do some time next year though, or possibly end of this year if I get the miles on it.

Regarding waiting for services:-

I ride an MT-09 in Singapore, at the main dealer you need to book about a month in advance for a service slot.

Luckily there are many alternatives and as you know the place is small.

 

I've put about 8000kms on mine since Feb, love it.

 

Just done Mae Hong Son loop on it, perfect bike for it IMO.