Entire body hurting.

[thequietman]

15 hours ago, swissie said:

I take the following medications:

- Amlodipin (high blood pressure)
- Omeprazol (stomach)
- Spiriva (bronchospasmolytikum, for inhalation)
- SimvaSTATIN (high cholesterol) = Ouups! STATIN was mentioned several times here as a possible "culprit".
My age: 65.
Cheers.

The most frequent significant adverse effects occurring in at least 1% of patients include:[12]

Central nervous system: headache (7%), dizziness (2%)
Respiratory: upper respiratory tract infection (2%), cough (1%)
Gastrointestinal: abdominal pain (5%), diarrhea (4%), nausea (4%), vomiting (3%), flatulence (3%), acid regurgitation (2%), constipation (2%)
Neuromuscular and skeletal: back pain (1%), weakness (1%)
Dermatologic: rash (2%)

[partington]

9 hours ago, RWA said:

 

Statin drugs are indeed, a bad boy on your list

in Japan is prohibited to prescribe statins without adding CoQ10

not only the CoQ10 will improve your "walk around" ability ( stimulates the heart muscle ) but along with PQQ (plant based natural compound) and  Chinese immortality vine ( boosts the cells' ability to produce AMP, the fundamental fuel of our bodies ) you will be able to  repair  and even regenerate  new mitochondria (necessary energy for our cells)

The original statin (compactin or mevastatin) was a  compound isolated from growing  broths of various naturally occurring fungi, so as "natural" as anything from any plant. 

 

However being natural does not mean good, this is a simple failure of logic in people who do not think clearly. Tobacco, scorpion venom and deadly nightshade are no less natural than the willow bark from which aspirin can be made. Some natural things will just kill you stone dead. Some unnatural things will save your life.

 

All cells are able to regenerate mitochondria all the time, as mitochondria have their own DNA and replicate by themselves. This is not dependent on Chinese immortality vine or any other compound.

 

Finally AMP is not the fundamental fuel of our bodies. AMP ( adenosine MONO phosphate) is what is left when two energy rich phosphate groups have been removed from the fundamental fuel of our bodies, which is ATP (adenosine triphosphate) and so would not be much use in supplying energy. A high cell level of AMP in fact is a danger sign that a cell has not much energy left, and switches on a pathway that causes cells to rapidly reduce their energy consumption as a protective measure.

 

Not advisable to pay too much attention to garbled and incorrect information from people with no understanding of even grade school biochemistry!

[maddox41]

Sounds like you have what I had and its probably chronic fatigue syndrome crazy as it seems it can get you at any time if you have been sick with the flu or stressed out or had a virus or super bad cold you can get it 

My symptoms were 

Every muscle sore and arching 

Tired 

Hot sensation in the feet 

Numbness in the feet 

Arching and tingling hand 

Dizzy 

Sweating 

If your depressed or stressed or even suffer from anxiety it can be cfs 

It is not nice thing to have as doctors really can't diagnose it 

Go to the hospital have complete and I mean complete blood work done and then see what shows up 

I recommend Bnh hospital in silom  

 

[Sheryl]

Actually fibromyalgia would be more likely than CFS but as I said before I would first investigate possibility this is just side effect of the statins as that is not at all uncommon.

 

The 1% incidence is out dated and from pre-marketing studies on comparatively small numbers of people. Recent large scale studies put the incidence higher.

 

Hence anyone suffering from generalized muscle pain who is on statins, this is the most likely explanation and should be ruled out before proceeding to possibilities like fibromyalgia.

[amvet]

8 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Actually fibromyalgia would be more likely than CFS but as I said before I would first investigate possibility this is just side effect of the statins as that is not at all uncommon.

 

The 1% incidence is out dated and from pre-marketing studies on comparatively small numbers of people. Recent large scale studies put the incidence higher.

 

Hence anyone suffering from generalized muscle pain who is on statins, this is the most likely explanation and should be ruled out before proceeding to possibilities like fibromyalgia.

So, what to do if you think muscle pain is from statins?  If Vit B or other homeopathy stuff not an option.  PS I've tried CoQ10 and don't believe it is mandatory in Japan with statins but welcome your comment. 

[Sheryl]

You confirm it by stopping the statins for a while and, if confirmed, switch to other drugs. The general criteria for making the association to statins is that the pain resolves or markedly improves within 2 weeks of stopping them.

 

 Coenzyme Q10  has not beeen shown to be effective. If the patient has a Vitamin D deficiency (which can be verified on blood test) correcting that may help,.

 

Alternatives to statins include Niaspan (high dose niacin), a group of drugs called fibrates, and ezetimibe. Diet and exercise will also help in many people.

[cheeryble]

On October 20, 2017 at 7:45 PM, bazza73 said:

Is this  one of our resident hypochondriacs?

Hypochondria is a real and very unpleasant condition.

Those with anxiety disorder who always expect the worst then procrastinate really suffer.

It's just been World Mental Health Day and one of the goals is to allow mental health problems to be not seen as laughable or not worthy of compassion and treatment.

[swissie]

7 hours ago, Sheryl said:

You confirm it by stopping the statins for a while and, if confirmed, switch to other drugs. The general criteria for making the association to statins is that the pain resolves or markedly improves within 2 weeks of stopping them.

 

 Coenzyme Q10  has not beeen shown to be effective. If the patient has a Vitamin D deficiency (which can be verified on blood test) correcting that may help,.

 

Alternatives to statins include Niaspan (high dose niacin), a group of drugs called fibrates, and ezetimibe. Diet and exercise will also help in many people.

Have talked to 2 medical Phone "Hotlines". today. 1 says Coenzyme Q 10 is the way to go. The other claimed that Coenzime has no proven beneficial "track-record". 

Never-Mind. Only extensive tests at Hospital can (may) shed some light on it.

Cheers.

[amvet]

So have we concluded that the poster who claimed Japan requires Coenzyme Q10 with all statins was pushing incorrect information?

[RWA]

2 hours ago, amvet said:

So have we concluded that the poster who claimed Japan requires Coenzyme Q10 with all statins was pushing incorrect information?

 

no I didn't ... I based my statement(s) as a result of several studies and experiments I've been honored to witness for a different purpose of my own research (re.: latest epigenetics application in psychological perception versus genetically "determined" diseases)

I didn't want to go too "technical" and detailed in explanations, so I gave a room for number of dismissive arguments (quite rightly though ...!!!)

 

 

[RWA]

22 hours ago, partington said:

The original statin (compactin or mevastatin) was a  compound isolated from growing  broths of various naturally occurring fungi, so as "natural" as anything from any plant. 

correct as for statins

however, I said the PQQ (pyrroloquinoline quinone) is a plant based natural compound that cannot be synthesized by the human body, so it needs to be obtained only through a diet of nutrient rich, plant based foods / supplements

(PQQ induces mitochondrial bio-genesis-the growth of new mitochondria in aging cells and number of published studies show that 20mg of PQQ plus 300mg of CoQ10 can even reverse age-related cognitive decline. In in most people under 50 there may not be a need for simultaneous use of PQQ and CoQ10 unless the person is taking a drug like cholesterol-lowering statins that interfere with CoQ10 manufacture. This small  molecule, POO, is also acting as a mighty intracellular antioxidant.)

 

 

22 hours ago, partington said:

However being natural does not mean good, this is a simple failure of logic in people who do not think clearly. Tobacco, scorpion venom and deadly nightshade are no less natural than the willow bark from which aspirin can be made. Some natural things will just kill you stone dead. Some unnatural things will save your life.

Absolutely TRUE!!!

 

22 hours ago, partington said:

 

All cells are able to regenerate mitochondria all the time, as mitochondria have their own DNA and replicate by themselves. This is not dependent on Chinese immortality vine or any other compound.

 

With all due respect, saying that "All cells are able to regenerate mitochondria all the time" is like saying that a nucleus is a brain of the cell ...! It's just not true.

 

Cells do not regenerate mitochondria -

if the mitochondria becomes irreparably damaged, without any other consequences the cell just have no any way of regenerating them, not even if the cell might have another source of ATP (such as anaerobic glycolysis), the cell will be dead without mitochondria not only due to the shortage of ATP but also because the mitochondrial DNA cannot be replaced (there are no copies of it in the nucleus). If the mitochondrial DNA were not replaced, then there would be no way of making the mitochondrial proteins (making an organelle requires much more than just proteins) it encodes.

 

Mitochondria  play ( less well-known function) a key role in the process of programmed cell death — apoptosis. In this process signals cause the mitochondrial membrane to become permeable and allow the efflux of cytochrome c, which is a signal for activating the apoptopic pathway. Presumably if mitochondria were damaged by other means the leaching out of cytochrome c would have the same effect, causing the death of the cell.

Cells with damaged or dead mitochondria cannot produce or regenerate them at all the time, therefore my opinion that as we age we shall stimulate the mitochondrial biogenesis with the natural compound of PQQ

(https://blog.bulletproof.com/pqq-boost-the-energy-in-your-cells-to-do-everything-better/ or http://doctormurray.com/pqq-the-next-nutrient-superstar/)

 

 

22 hours ago, partington said:

Finally AMP is not the fundamental fuel of our bodies. AMP ( adenosine MONO phosphate) is what is left when two energy rich phosphate groups have been removed from the fundamental fuel of our bodies, which is ATP (adenosine triphosphate) and so would not be much use in supplying energy. A high cell level of AMP in fact is a danger sign that a cell has not much energy left, and switches on a pathway that causes cells to rapidly reduce their energy consumption as a protective measure.

Here you made a bold, quick, oversimplified and rather misleading statement about the AMP...

 

Adenosine monophosphate, diphosphate and triphosphate (AMP, ADP, and ATP, respectively) are important participants in energy processes in the living cell.

Adenosine monophosphate, also known as 5'-adenylic acid, is a nucleotide that is found in RNA (

 

consistting of the phosphate group, the pentose sugar ribose, and the nucleobase adenine. Yes, AMP can also be produced during ATP synthesis by the enzyme adenylate kinase.) Otherwise, it's natural production by our body is part of the metabolic process, going on every minute of each day.

With that fact, many people think of it as a byproduct of their body's attempt to make energy from the foods everyday's intake .

AMP is used as a dietary supplement to boost immune activity, (recently also approved as a substitute sweetener to aid in the maintenance of a low-calorie diet). The adenosine injection is a potent vasodilator - increasing the blood flow to cardiac and skeletal muscle (oxygenation, nutrient and available energy supply to the muscle tissues), hence it's energy product being wildly used in bodybuilding (improving removal of wastes, i.e. delaying fatigue and cramping, helping prevent heart strain during and post a strenuous heart load) Also suppresses appetite and have amazing power as a fat burner

There is a number of adenosine benefits or advantages:

 

ENERGY-RICH PHOSPHATES REPRESENT "ENERGY POOL" FROM WHICH CELLS OBTAIN THEIR ENERGY REQUIREMENTS. IN PATHOLOGICAL SITUATIONS, WHERE METABOLISM IS ALTERED, SPECIFIC DETERMINATION OF NUCLEOTIDES IS OF DIAGNOSTIC VALUE & IS INCREASINGLY USED IN HEART, LIVER & KIDNEY DISEASES.

https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/5_-adenylic_acid#section=Therapeutic-Uses

 

(AMP can affect a number of immune functions, including the reversal of malnutrition and starvation-induced immunosuppression, the enhancement of T-cell maturation and function, the enhancement of natural killer cell activity, the improvement of delayed cutaneous hypersensitivity, helping resistance to such infectious agents as Staphylococcus aureus and Candida albicans, and finally the modulation of T-cell responses toward type 1 CD4 helper lymphocytes or Th1 cells. It is is also applied to help limit the serious nerve related pain, which is scientifically known as post-herpetic neuralgia or PHN.)

 

 

22 hours ago, partington said:

Not advisable to pay too much attention to garbled and incorrect information from people with no understanding of even grade school biochemistry!

 

I apologize for being "sketchy" and not exactly "precise" in my original thoughts / posts

I also admit I have no any "grade school biochemistry" but quite an understanding - just enough to comprehend those parts of biogenesis and genetics that are related to my own work and expertise (clinical psychology).

 

Nonetheless, I stay firmly behind my "opinions" given here earlier - without providing much of tech and detailed explanation that I thought unnecessary on this platform ...

 

Thank you!

[amvet]

23 minutes ago, RWA said:

 

no I didn't ... I based my statement(s) as a result of several studies and experiments I've been honored to witness for a different purpose of my own research (re.: latest epigenetics application in psychological perception versus genetically "determined" diseases)

I didn't want to go too "technical" and detailed in explanations, so I gave a room for number of dismissive arguments (quite rightly though ...!!!)

I have no idea what you are writing about.  I asked if the poster who claims that the government of the country of Japan has legally bound the dispensing of Statins with Coenzyme Q10 is pushing incorrect information?  In other words can you purchase Statins in Japan legally without Coenzyme Q10?  It is a yes or no question.  I didn't ask for opinions about Statins or Coenzyme Q10.  

Edited October 22, 2017 by amvet

[Sheryl]

Please stay on topic.

[RWA]

4 minutes ago, amvet said:

I have no idea what you are writing about.  I asked if the poster who claims that the government of the country of Japan has legally bound the dispensing of Statins with Coenzyme Q10 is pushing incorrect information?  In other words can you purchase Statins in Japan legally without Coenzyme Q10?  It is a yes or no question.  I didn't ask for opinions about Statins or Coenzyme Q10.  

yes, of course you may purchase statins in Japan WITHOUT CoQ10 !

But different scenario may occur when you are to be prescribed with statins!

Then the CoQ10 is mandatory to go along, unless they might be some other, unusual - underlaying conditions to prevent it

[amvet]

5 minutes ago, RWA said:

yes, of course you may purchase statins in Japan WITHOUT CoQ10 !

But different scenario may occur when you are to be prescribed with statins!

Then the CoQ10 is mandatory to go along, unless they might be some other, unusual - underlaying conditions to prevent it

Can you get a prescription for Statins in Japan without Coenzyme Q10 ?  I tried Co enzyme Q10 with a Japanese Statin and still had debilitating pain that only stopped when I stopped taking the Japanese Statin.  So I don't think doctors in Japan are bound to prescribe Coenzyme Q10 when they prescribe Statins.  If however all Statins in Japan are prescribed with Coenzyme Q10 I might try taking it again and change the brand of Coenzyme Q10 I bought. 

 

However I think partington was pushing inaccurate information about Co enzyme Q10 being prescribed with all Statins in Japan.

 

I don't think there is any accepted scientific data that would force a country to include Co enzyme Q10 with all statin prescriptions.  Maybe in some people it will prevent pain and maybe it won't or maybe it is psychological but not a medical fact that would effect legal requirements of an advanced country like Japan. 

 

I think this is on topic because if Co enzyme Q10 works beyond a doubt then it might be the answer to the op's question. 

[Sheryl]

1 minute ago, RWA said:

yes, of course you may purchase statins in Japan WITHOUT CoQ10 !

But different scenario may occur when you are to be prescribed with statins!

Then the CoQ10 is mandatory to go along, unless they might be some other, unusual - underlaying conditions to prevent it

CoQ10 was hypothesized to be helpful, based on a hypothesized mechanism for the muscle pains in stain users,  but studies have shown this is not in fact the  case.

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25545331

[Oxx]

22 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

CoQ10 was hypothesized to be helpful, based on a hypothesized mechanism for the muscle pains in stain users,  but studies have shown this is not in fact the  case.

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25545331

 

Respectfully, that's not an illuminating study.  It looks at the role of the CoQ10 for people who are already damaged (viz. with confirmed statin myopathy).  It sheds no light on whether CoQ10 will actually prevent the damage from happening in the first place.

[Sheryl]

True. It shows that supplementing with Co10 does not  reduce myalgias in statin users who already have that side effect (not sure I would use the term "damage", see below). There  has AFAIK been no study of whether it prevents this side effect from occurring.

 

The mechanism by which stains cause myopathy/myalgia is not well understood, for something to help prevent it but not help alleviate it once present, the mechanism would need to entail some sort of long-lasting damage. Not sure what that would be, and hard to reconcile that idea with the speed with which stain-induced myalgia usually resolves once statins are stopped.

 

 

[RWA]

2 hours ago, Oxx said:

 

Respectfully, that's not an illuminating study.  It looks at the role of the CoQ10 for people who are already damaged (viz. with confirmed statin myopathy).  It sheds no light on whether CoQ10 will actually prevent the damage from happening in the first place.

the indisputable fact is, that the statins are causing drastic depletion of CoQ10 (on the top of otherwise already  insufficient amount in EVERY-body) and so it MUST be supplied to prevent whole lot of other VERY serious problems, illness, failures and death!

 

for change, try to scroll quickly through these:

 

https://spacedoc.com/

https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2010/07/20/the-truth-about-statin-drugs-revealed.aspx

https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/709107

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT01140308
 

ps

Research group I have been involved with, was funded by Kyoto Prefectural University in Japan, mainly to study serum Levels of Coenzyme Q10 in Patients with Multiple System Atrophy

(published in 2016: http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0147574)
makes also very interesting reading

 

 

[RWA]

3 hours ago, amvet said:

Can you get a prescription for Statins in Japan without Coenzyme Q10 ?  I tried Co enzyme Q10 with a Japanese Statin and still had debilitating pain that only stopped when I stopped taking the Japanese Statin.  So I don't think doctors in Japan are bound to prescribe Coenzyme Q10 when they prescribe Statins.  If however all Statins in Japan are prescribed with Coenzyme Q10 I might try taking it again and change the brand of Coenzyme Q10 I bought. 

yes, you CAN get prescription ONLY for Statins (without CoQ10) in Japan - it is not a law (it is what have been told by the Kyoto university, that major hospitals in Japan are obliged to prescribe the CoQ10 along with statins, and is prescribed (CoQ10) as a heart drug in Japan

 

I'm not sure, if you really meant that your pain only stopped when you stopped taking STATIN or did you mean stopped taking CoQ10...?!!!

 

You should NEVER stop taking CoQ10 !!!! Your overall health and well being is depend on it (http://www.preventive-health-guide.com/coq10.html) and statins DO CAUSE heavy deficiency of CoQ10!!!!

If you are in Japan (or elsewhere) you may consult your doctor and take rather Ubiquinol, the reduced form of CoQ10 to effectively rescue the cells from the damage caused by a statin drug (and thereby,  help to protect muscle cells from myopathies)

Statins lower your CoQ10 levels by blocking the pathway involved in cholesterol production -- IT IS THE SAME  pathway by which Q10 is produced...!!!!

Supplementing with CoQ10 or, ideally, ubiquinol is essential for preventing serious statin-induced health problems.

Ubiquinol is not only important for those taking statins, it’s also been found to lower the risk of a variety of chronic diseases and has anti-aging properties

 

One in four Americans over the age of 45 are now taking a statin drug, despite the fact that there are over 900 studies proving their adverse effects, which run the gamut from muscle problems to diabetes and increased cancer risk, but the majority is completely unaware that if you take statin drugs without taking CoQ10 (and particularly its reduced form, ubiquinol), your health is at serious risk!!!!

The loss of CoQ10 leads to loss of cell energy and increased free radicals which, in turn, can further damage your mitochondrial DNA, effectively setting into motion an evil circle of increasing free radicals and mitochondrial damage.

Tragically, despite all this overwhelming evidence and research, there are no official FDA-required warnings regarding CoQ10 depletion from taking statin drugs, and nearly all physicians fail to inform you about this problem if you are taking statins.

 

As your body gets more and more depleted of CoQ10, you may suffer from fatigue, muscle weakness and soreness, and eventually heart failure. So if you’re taking statin drugs, it’s imperative that you take CoQ10 or, preferably, ubiquinol, the reduced, electron-rich form of coenzyme Q10!!!

 

 

3 hours ago, amvet said:

However I think partington was pushing inaccurate information about Co enzyme Q10 being prescribed with all Statins in Japan.

 

it was not "partington " who dais that, it was me!!!

("partington " is an impressive expert on DNA and he OBJECTED to my saying) ... smile/wink

 

3 hours ago, amvet said:

I don't think there is any accepted scientific data that would force a country to include Co enzyme Q10 with all statin prescriptions.  Maybe in some people it will prevent pain and maybe it won't or maybe it is psychological but not a medical fact that would effect legal requirements of an advanced country like Japan. 

it is indisputable "medical fact"  (see above)

it is also a fact, that each one of people is unique with different perceptions / feeling / believes about their health and issues

it is also FACT that that "psychological" consciousness and sub-consciousness mind, along with the "environment" has direct and absolutely profound effect and influence on each, single of a total of some 3 trillion cells in your body (i.e. epigenetics)

 

3 hours ago, amvet said:

I think this is on topic because if Co enzyme Q10 works beyond a doubt then it might be the answer to the op's question. 

 

Odds are greater than 100 to 1 that if you're taking a statin, you don't really need it. The ONLY subgroup that might benefit are those born with a genetic defect called familial hypercholesterolemia, as this makes them resistant to traditional measures of normalizing cholesterol.

( Statins are in fact classified as a "pregnancy Category X medication"; meaning, it causes serious birth defects, and should NEVER be used by a woman who is pregnant or planning a pregnancy. )

 

I’ve discussed why ubiquinol is a crucial supplement for those taking statins, but perhaps the more fundamental question you need to ask yourself (and your health care provider) is whether you really need to take statins in the first place. For certain individuals born with a genetic defect called familial hypercholesterolemia, statin drugs may be useful. But ordinarily total cholesterol will tell you virtually nothing about your heart disease risk, unless it's exceptionally elevated (above 330 or so, which would be suggestive of familial hypercholesterolemia).

 

The odds are very high — greater than 100 to 1 — that if you or someone you love is taking a statin drug, you or they don't need it. Remember, your body needs cholesterol for the production of cell membranes, hormones, vitamin D and bile acids that help you to digest fat. Cholesterol also helps your brain form memories and is vital to your neurological function. There is also strong evidence that having too little cholesterol INCREASES your risk for cancer, memory loss, Parkinson's disease, hormonal imbalances, stroke, depression, suicide, and violent behavior

 

There is a growing body of research indicating that statins really have nothing to do with reducing your heart disease risk. In fact, this class of drugs can increase your heart disease risk by directly harming your muscles and nerves, with the heart muscle (a highly nerve dense muscle) being a highly susceptible target — especially if you do not take ubiquinol (CoQ10) along with it.

 

 

 

 

[RWA]

2 hours ago, Sheryl said:

True. It shows that supplementing with Co10 does not  reduce myalgias in statin users who already have that side effect (not sure I would use the term "damage", see below). There  has AFAIK been no study of whether it prevents this side effect from occurring.

 

The mechanism by which stains cause myopathy/myalgia is not well understood, for something to help prevent it but not help alleviate it once present, the mechanism would need to entail some sort of long-lasting damage. Not sure what that would be, and hard to reconcile that idea with the speed with which stain-induced myalgia usually resolves once statins are stopped.

 

 

agreed

but

there hasn't been (and won't be) done  MANY important studies that may - in effect, lead to the true discovery of how extremely harmful and often completely unnecessary are the most of PDA approved drugs in shelfs

yet, there are endless studies with - least to say: doubtful procedure, evidence and reporting, that DO recommend those harmful drugs that have been happily approved.

 

I can summarize by saying that: it is NOT in a "general" interest to heal the people, prevent them from harm, extend and improve their lives ... all for quite an obvious reason though ...

Well know fact is, that "doctors" are not healing a "causes" but symptoms and the statistics are lying

(the most amazing are those about "cancer" - versus chemo and radio therapy results, lol)

 

Re.: CoQ10 effects, maybe you'd be interested in reading this?

https://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/dailys/02/May02/052902/02p-0244-cp00001-02-Exhibit_A-vol1.pdf 

[amvet]

I was taking a Japanese Statin and stopped when I could no longer walk after getting up in the morning.  No pills for 2 weeks and the pain almost stopped completely.  Started the Statin again with Q10 and the pain started again in a week so stopped Q10 and Japanese Statin and went back to Lipitor minor irregular leg cramps but not severe enough to stop walking or movement.  Talked to 3 doctors about Q10 and they had no opinion. 

 

I would completely distrust anyone who wrote, " I can summarize by saying that: it is NOT in a "general" interest to heal the people, prevent them from harm, extend and improve their lives."  I've known to many people in the medical profession to even consider that valid.  Shame on you for saying it.

[Sheryl]

The various studies you have posted do not support what you are saying.

 

It is true that stains  reduce body stores of CoQ10. It has therefore been suggested -- not proven --  that it would be helpful to supplement this in people taking statins.

 

There is no evidence at all that failing to do so puts people at serious risk, and most of the tens (if not hundreds) of millions of people taking statins are not taking supplemental CoQ10. They are not dropping like flies from heart failure or other dire conditions, and statin use (unaccompanied by CoQ10 supplementation) has not been linked to increased risk of death. As for the muscle problems, studies suggest it is unrelated to CoQ10.

 

CoQ10 is safe enough to take and there is no problem with suggesting that people on statins consider it since it does deplete CoQ10 levels, but "it MUST be supplied to prevent whole lot of other VERY serious problems, illness, failures and death" is simply not supported by the evidence.

 

Statins are not prescribed based on total cholesterol levels, that has not been used to diagnose hyperlipedemias now for decades.  And while it is certainly possible  that some people on stains could manage without them -- especially were they willing and able to make various lifestyle changes -- "odds are very high — greater than 100 to 1 — that if you or someone you love is taking a statin drug, you or they don't need it." is a wild exaggeration.

[Sheryl]

9 minutes ago, amvet said:

I was taking a Japanese Statin and stopped when I could no longer walk after getting up in the morning.  No pills for 2 weeks and the pain almost stopped completely.  Started the Statin again with Q10 and the pain started again in a week so stopped Q10 and Japanese Statin and went back to Lipitor minor irregular leg cramps but not severe enough to stop walking or movement.  Talked to 3 doctors about Q10 and they had no opinion. 

 

Resolution of the pain after being off statins for 2 weeks confirms it was statin-associated myopathy.

As my also the Op's problem be, but he won't know unless he tries stopping them.

 

Recent studies show that taking CoQ10 does not relieve this and there is no reason to think results would differ if started before the onset of symptoms, though that specifically has not been tested; it is only very recently that there were any RCTs on CoQ120 supplementation with stains at all.

 

If you are unable to get your lipid profile within acceptable range through diet and exercise alone, should discuss with your doctor taking non-statin drugs. (You can try different statins but in my expereince that often does not help  and you may put yourself through a lot of pain in the process.  Ask your doctor about switching to other classes of drug would be my advice).

[tifino]

 

missus and I both now refuse 'statin based prescriptions.

 

she has insisted for a couple of years that those statin meds were what were stuffing her around.

I had already shown her about 'statins depleting both the good HDL and bad LDL levels

 

We now only use the CoQ10 from the pharmacy; for lowering LDLs with no detriment to HDL  levels

 

we feel this is the better way, especially as we are both into our 50s

 

 

Our Dr wasn't at first happy for missus to tell him she'd quietly dropped the 'statins a year earlier,

but there was nothing he could really say to justify her going back onto them.

He knew we were right, but there's that Psychological Scotoma that they face, preventing them from supporting what goes against Dr/Pharma objective$$$

[RWA]

32 minutes ago, amvet said:

I was taking a Japanese Statin and stopped when I could no longer walk after getting up in the morning.  No pills for 2 weeks and the pain almost stopped completely.  Started the Statin again with Q10 and the pain started again in a week so stopped Q10 and Japanese Statin and went back to Lipitor minor irregular leg cramps but not severe enough to stop walking or movement.  Talked to 3 doctors about Q10 and they had no opinion. 

 

I would completely distrust anyone who wrote, " I can summarize by saying that: it is NOT in a "general" interest to heal the people, prevent them from harm, extend and improve their lives."  I've known to many people in the medical profession to even consider that valid.  Shame on you for saying it.

 

so sorry to inform you that you're not living in the real world, but don't worry, you're not the only one deluded ...

I am a medical professional, working with many "people in medical profession" but especially with the hospital administrations and pharmaceutical agents. Shame is not on me but on a piss poor education, media, economy, politics, business over the human prosperity, health and well-being and ignorance!!!

I'm not going to start on disturbingly long list of necessary but high-earning and indisputably harming "therapeutic" procedures what people are undergoing every day all over the world, I'm only going to tell you that a medical students are thought a number of no-longer-valid subjects and procedures, simply because it will benefit their future employers and pharmaceutical industry

 

prove me wrong and tell me what you have learned from your "too many people in the medical profession" about your condition - real, true cause and fast, risk free solution/treatment that you already are cured of - healed (not only temporarily free of original symptoms) without experiencing any more other, increasingly more serious problems, caused by previous treatments and medication   

[amvet]

In any profession there are people who are untrustworthy. 

 

A poster wrote, " in Japan is prohibited to prescribe statins without adding CoQ10" Obviously a misinformed statement.  I have to ask myself would a medical professional make a statement like that?  No would be my guess. 

 

However having said that I think the open exchange of information is beneficial as long as enough people continue to point out the obvious false information that is covered in jargon that is an attempt to pass off some worthless homeopathic advice. 

 

I'm not a medical professional but I check every single bit of advice and prescriptions that my doctors give me.  I carry the computing equipment to the hospital to be able to do that and it has saved my life twice in the past 3 years.  

 

 

[Darkkakashi]

maybe too much meat. Try to not eat meat at night, only breakfast/lunch/collations. See how you feel.

 

Meat can overload the liver with work which can create fatigue. Try it for a day or two and see how you feel when you wake up.

[taiwanatoa]

So, you're really worried & has been going on for some months ????
You ask for advice on an open forum ? You haven't been to a doctor ?
We must be from different planets.

Months ? Try YEARS.


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[taiwanatoa]

This is getting scary. Most of the time my entire body is hurting, every muscle, every bone. Every kind of movement causes discomfort.

Never heard of anything like that. I am afraid to mention this to the Medics, fearing they will classify me as a hypochondriac, or them sending me off to the nearest psychiatrist.

This sounds like a joke, but to me, the problem is VERY REAL.

Anyone?

Thx & cheers.

I have felt like this increasingly in recent years! It's not " pain ", but rather, soreness and lethargy and total lack of energy. Also, over the last 12 years since reaching 50 I never can sleep longer than about 2 or 3 hours and then have to spend 1,2 or 3 hours trying to get back to sleep again. Needless to say, it ruins my life.

 

 

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