Water In Fuel -Try To Burn it or Siphon it?

[Formaleins]

Here is my dilemma, I was cleaning my bike the other day and rinsed it off with a hose. Stupidly, I removed the petrol cap to mop up the water that sometimes gathers in the recess around the cap. As soon as I opened the cap I knew I had made a mistake, I heard the sound of water running into the petrol tank.

 

I know it wont be a lot, maybe 50-100ml if I am lucky, but what would you suggest as the best course of action?

 

1: I thought about adding some alcohol to the tank but I really don't dare guess as to how much or even if it would work given humidity here (The alcohol probably has absorbed enough moisture from the air already.

2: Try to siphon out the petrol and water - This I have my doubts about too, I cannot see me being able to get every last drop out of the tank and the water will be at the lowest point.

3: Fill the tank and hope with the motion and dilution it simply burns off.

4: Run it as is with about 3 litres of gas in the tank and hope it burns off as is.

 

If it was you .....what would you do?

There is no way I am pulling off the tank to drain it, there is no petcock on these bikes either and they are fuel injected with electric start. and removing the tank is a major job.

Given the small amount of water, obviously water does not burn, but, with the electric start do you think it might be possible to clear it by warming the engine then giving it some gas for a few miles with the original fuel or doing the same after adding (10 litres) of new Benzine and trying to burn it off that way?

 

Cheers! 

 

 

 

[RichCor]

I'd probably want to drain the tank and refill with new/fresh fuel.

 

While it might 'burn off', you'd be experiencing drastic loss of power during those events.

[tonray]

31 minutes ago, RichCor said:

I'd probably want to drain the tank and refill with new/fresh fuel.

 

While it might 'burn off', you'd be experiencing drastic loss of power during those events.

yes...drain it...pain but cost is minimal. Running water thru your engine is potentially going to open up corrosion problems later.  If it was a small amount then likely no issue but fix is easy enough

[Crossy]

If it's really "50-100mL" that's far more than the strainer bowl which usually collects errant water can handle.

 

Time to pop off the tank pain or not I'm afraid and treat as a lesson learned

 

What machine is it?

 

I'll move this to Motorcycling for directed replies.

 

[papa al]

choose 3. & 1.

kinda

Fill it with E10 gasohol;

the10%ETOL 

will dissolve the HOH.

 

Go for a long ride.

Farang worry too mut.

Edited October 20, 2017 by papa al

[Adeeos]

Product called,, "heat",, IF you can find it,, (it's meant for cold climates),,, use like 3-4 bottles,,,  if not,, gallon or so of isopropyl alcohol,,, (paint supply/hardware store)  it'll mix the water and fuel,, burn it,, run it down to 1/2 tank,, fill it with good fuel,,, it'll clear it out,,, Either one will not harm anything,,, 

Edited October 21, 2017 by Adeeos

[melvinmelvin]

 

as OP said, the water is likely to be found at the lowest spot

 

can you get a thin hose down there? to the lowest spot?

if so, suck/pump it out

 

[jackdd]

empty the tank using a hose and then use some fabric (obviously no tissue paper) to soak up the remaining liquid in the tank

[Formaleins]

12 minutes ago, jackdd said:

empty the tank using a hose and then use some fabric (obviously no tissue paper) to soak up the remaining liquid in the tank

Can barely get a siphon hose into the tank let alone any cloth - there is a metal plate covering the top of the tank at the full level mark, like a baffle or even something to prevent siphoning.

[Pukehina1]

An old school way of absorbing water is use Methylated Spirits .... tip in half a litre shake tank to mix leave overnight No engine problems ... 

[Formaleins]

29 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

as OP said, the water is likely to be found at the lowest spot

 

can you get a thin hose down there? to the lowest spot?

if so, suck/pump it out

 

It is not easy to get a tube into the tanks - see my other reply. Thanks all the same.

[Formaleins]

50 minutes ago, Adeeos said:

Product called,, "heat",, IF you can find it,, (it's meant for cold climates),,, use like 3-4 bottles,,,  if not,, gallon or so of isopropyl alcohol,,, (paint supply/hardware store)  it'll mix the water and fuel,, burn it,, run it down to 1/2 tank,, fill it with good fuel,,, it'll clear it out,,, Either one will not harm anything,,, 

I looked for this thanks but nothing available in my area - I have gone with a mix of suggestions - I have added 100ml of IPA to what is left in the tanks (maybe 2 litres) and have filled it to about 8 litres with E10. I ran it last night for 60KM and no issues, ran again this morning for another 60KM and again no issues so I have now topped the tank up with Benzine and will give it a longer run this afternoon.

Thanks for all the suggestions!

[Formaleins]

2 hours ago, papa al said:

choose 3. & 1.

kinda

Fill it with E10 gasohol;

the10%ETOL 

will dissolve the HOH.

 

Go for a long ride.

Farang worry too mut.

Thanks, I am almost happy that this and some alcohol has cleared the problem - knowing my luck the water will be hidden in a pocket somewhere and is only released into the injector when the bike is at about 45 deg lean on a bend overtaking a truck with a tank coming head on in the opposite direction.....as it splutters and dies!

[jackdd]

If it's a small scooter you could find 2 or 3 guys to assist you and just turn it upside down to empty the tank, but obviously you have solved your problem already

[melvinmelvin]

31 minutes ago, jackdd said:

If it's a small scooter you could find 2 or 3 guys to assist you and just turn it upside down to empty the tank, but obviously you have solved your problem already

 

brilliant! I like that!!!

 

[AllanB]

What are you guys talking about, engine corrosion?, adding chemicals?, petrol has a small amount of water content in it anyway from the pumps, especially in Thailand where condensation is repetitively high. If your tank has 5 litres of fuel in it that is 1% water, think about it??.. and if you are still worried leave the bike overnight and drain off a small amount. Petrol floats on water, so the water will be at the bottom.

 

Fill your tank up to the brim and go for a run, you may get an odd misfire, that's all.

 

However, if a hose is involved 50-100ml may be an underestimate, that being the case drain the tank, but don't piss about with chemicals. You will soon find out when you run the bike and it won't do any harm.

Edited October 21, 2017 by AllanB

[Oztruckie]

Pour small bottle methylated spirits in,methylated spirits is water soluble,give bike good shake,all good to go,used this method many a time with water contaminated fuel in fuel injected motors.

[tigermoth]

If you try burning it off you will probably never have to worry about water in the tank, your motor bike or anything else again.

[AllanB]

1 hour ago, tigermoth said:

If you try burning it off you will probably never have to worry about water in the tank, your motor bike or anything else again.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_injection_(engine)

 

http://www.kyoto-kem.com/en/pdf/industry/Petroleum/EKVX-01521.pdf

 

The only time water is a major problem for an internal combustion engine if a large quantity enters the cylinder while in motion, when "hydraulic-ing" becomes the issue.  

 

This small amount will enter in atomised form and is no danger at all.

 

 

[Beats56]

If it is only a little bit I wouldn't worry about it. In cold northern countries we would always put a bottle of anti 

Fuel line freeze in a tank of gas. You always get condensation in the tank.

That's why to always keep the tank topped up to full in the winter. I would just keep your tank full in your case. There are devices that have water injection in cars. Only a small amount is added.  Supposed to increase milage. A little water won't hurt anything or cause corrosion. 

 

[AllanB]

1 hour ago, Beats56 said:

If it is only a little bit I wouldn't worry about it. In cold northern countries we would always put a bottle of anti 

Fuel line freeze in a tank of gas. You always get condensation in the tank.

That's why to always keep the tank topped up to full in the winter. I would just keep your tank full in your case. There are devices that have water injection in cars. Only a small amount is added.  Supposed to increase milage. A little water won't hurt anything or cause corrosion. 

 

Right....

 

Actually water injection is designed to increase power due to the increase in expansion/compression. At the point of ignition the water turns to steam and since a vapour (steam) expands more than air, this results in an increase in power.

 

It is principally how a steam engine works.

 

PS. Hydraulicing only occurs if the amount of water entering exceeds the volume of the combustion chamber. Almost impossible unless the engine is submerged as everything is metered by the carb/FIS.

 

Edited October 21, 2017 by AllanB

[Janner1]

You have an EFI engine therefore ANY water going through the system will screw your engine with immedite  effect, the CDU unit that controls the electronic fuel injection will die almost the second water is detected.

 

so your options are simple the pain in the neck way or the really painful in the pocket way,

Your choice and good luck.

 

just for reference you cannot burn off water from fuel.

 

if you want to try then do so from about 50 metres away from your bike because the tank will become a bomb and explode, even a tank with just vapour in it is lethal in the same way.

 

so do what everybody here has told you remove the tank and turn it upside down in a safe area and leave for 24 hours

[Janner1]

Actually water injection is designed to increase power due to the increase in expansion/compression. At the point of ignition the water turns to steam and since a vapour (steam) expands more than air, this results in an increase in power.

 

It is principally how a steam engine works.

 

PS. Hydraulicing only occurs if the amount of water entering exceeds the volume of the combustion chamber. Almost impossible unless the engine is submerged as everything is metered by the carb/FIS.

 

just so you know Allan B

 

There are NO carbs in an EFI engine that is why it is electronically controlled fuel INJECTION

[bazza73]

Water is completely miscible with methylated spirits ( ethanol )

Methylated spirits is completely miscible with gasoline.

The same goes for iso-propyl alcohol, one carbon atom more than ethanol.

Which is why either post 6 or post 10 would have worked. It's what's called a ternary system by chemists.

[AboutThaim]

There should be a filter somewhere between the tank and FIS that should prevent water getting through.  Have you looked for that?

[misterphil]

Tell a motorbike taxi that theres some free fuel if he wants it. Once he's emptied the fuel out of your tank, say thank you and fill it back up with fresh.

 

Job done. 

[papa al]

22 hours ago, Adeeos said:

Product called,, "heat",, IF you can find it,, (it's meant for cold climates),,, use like 3-4 bottles,,,  if not,, gallon or so of isopropyl alcohol,,, (paint supply/hardware store)  it'll mix the water and fuel,, burn it,, run it down to 1/2 tank,, fill it with good fuel,,, it'll clear it out,,, Either one will not harm anything,,, 

No. The product is call HEET.

It is ethanol.

Same as in gasohol E10.

[AllanB]

15 hours ago, Janner1 said:

You have an EFI engine therefore ANY water going through the system will screw your engine with immedite  effect, the CDU unit that controls the electronic fuel injection will die almost the second water is detected.

 

so your options are simple the pain in the neck way or the really painful in the pocket way,

Your choice and good luck.

 

just for reference you cannot burn off water from fuel.

 

if you want to try then do so from about 50 metres away from your bike because the tank will become a bomb and explode, even a tank with just vapour in it is lethal in the same way.

 

so do what everybody here has told you remove the tank and turn it upside down in a safe area and leave for 24 hours

Where do you get your information from, all fuel has a small amount of water in it? Prey explain how the CDU, a device connected electrically to the engine, can be killed by anything within the fuel system? Is this some form of electronic induced osmosis process? 

 

There is no logic to your argument.

 

Water ingress (in small amounts) happens often when off roading and, as I have previously stated the only danger occurs when the engine "hydraulics". This damages the engine mechanically during the compression stroke, since fluid (unlike a gas) is impressionable, it cannot complete it's stroke and something gives. If the water/fuel ratio is too high you may encounter a misfire and it may even stop the engine, so you are left with the option of draining, or trying to crank the water through.

 

15 hours ago, Janner1 said:

There are NO carbs in an EFI engine that is why it is electronically controlled fuel INJECTION

 

Who said there was?  The slash/oblique denotes "either, or".....namely Carbs "or" EFI.

[bazza73]

Straight gasoline has small traces of water in it. Gasoline with any level of ethanol addition automatically has water in it.

That's because pure ethanol, otherwise known as absolute alcohol, has to be prepared by azeotropic distillation. The ethanol that is added to gasoline is manufactured by conventional distillation, and forms the azeotrope 95% ethanol: 5% water. So the E85 sold at pumps around Thailand contains a minimum of

0.75% water.

[AllanB]

Sorry, I missed this from Janner " just for reference you cannot burn off water from fuel.

if you want to try then do so from about 50 metres away from your bike because the tank will become a bomb and explode, even a tank with just vapour in it is lethal in the same way".

 

Another interesting theory, if only Alfred Nobel would have thought of that all those years ago, using water as an explosion catalyst, he could have saved himself a lot of work and probably avoided killing his brother.

 

So Mr.Janner I guess you should be awarded the Nobel Prize for you contribution to science.