Any recent experiences of converting a 30 day exemption to something that is suitable for a retirement extension?

[KittenKong]

A friend of mine wants to come here and arrange a retirement extension for which he will qualify using the cash deposit method. Getting any sort of visa where he lives seems to be ridiculously difficult (masses of paperwork, proof of savings, multiple pre-booked air tickets etc.) so he would like to arrive with just a visa exemption at BKK airport and do all the rest of the procedure in Jomtien.

 

So he wonders if anyone has any recent experience of doing this via the Jomtien office (how long does it take, how much does it cost, what paperwork is required etc.). I can advise him on the retirement extension part as I know this from personal experience every year but I know nothing about the initial change from visa exempt entry to some sort of suitable visa that can then be extended. I do believe that the visa can be applied for at Jomtien but is actually processed and issued at Bangkok, but apart from that I have no idea.

[craigt3365]

I screwed up earlier this year and left without a re-entry permit.  I was pretty sure I didn't have one and was going to buy it at the airport.  The agent told me I had one that was still valid.  It was late at night, I've got 7-8 in my passport...I should have looked closer.

 

Anyway, came back, got a 30 day visa exemption, and went through the process to get a retirement visa.  It took 2 trips to Bangkok.  But wasn't too bad.  Nor very expensive.

 

Joe here can step your friend through the entire process.

 

An option presented to me was to have Jomtien do it all.  Quite a bit more expensive, but 100% hassle free.  Might be worth a few hundred dollars to go that route.  Have your friend go to Jomtien immigration and talk to the head lady in the office in the back on the left.

[ubonjoe]

9 hours ago, KittenKong said:

A friend of mine wants to come here and arrange a retirement extension for which he will qualify using the cash deposit method.

The problem with that method is that Jomtien has been refusing to accept the application unless they have the money in bank for 60 days. There is no requirement for the money to be in the bank for any amount of time to apply for the 90 day non immigrant visa (category O) entry based upon qualifying for an extension.

Does he already have a bank account here? If yes does he already have the 800k baht in the bank?

I highly advise he get a single entry tourist visa to avoid problems getting the visa application done.

The basic requirement for getting the non immigrant visa is here. https://www.immigration.go.th/content/service_80

[KittenKong]

Part of the reason for his visit is to open a foreign currency bank account here but he has not yet done so as physical presence is required. He could then use the combined method of part deposit and part income declaration which should get him round the seasoning requirement. It should be much easier for him to get a consular income certification here (his country has a consulate near Pattaya) than to get anything done in his home country. It would also be easier for him to go to Bangkok from Pattaya for the first visa change than to go to the Thai consulate in his home country from where he lives there.

 

 

[KittenKong]

1 hour ago, craigt3365 said:

Anyway, came back, got a 30 day visa exemption, and went through the process to get a retirement visa.  It took 2 trips to Bangkok.  But wasn't too bad.  Nor very expensive.

......

An option presented to me was to have Jomtien do it all.  Quite a bit more expensive, but 100% hassle free.  Might be worth a few hundred dollars to go that route. 

 

I have already mentioned to him that agents here will be able to smooth the path of any application, for a fee. But he is keen to do it as cheaply as possible. So perhaps we will keep that as a last resort. There are also some time constraints about which he is not yet certain.

 

How much did it actually cost you in fees to do the Bangkok part?

[craigt3365]

6 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

 

I have already mentioned to him that agents here will be able to smooth the path of any application, for a fee. But he is keen to do it as cheaply as possible. So perhaps we will keep that as a last resort. There are also some time constraints about which he is not yet certain.

 

How much did it actually cost you in fees to do the Bangkok part?

This isn't an agent, it's Jomtien immigration.  And you get an extra 3 months visa as part of it.  I was offered 16k but I heard a friend just did it and paid 25k.  Not sure why the difference. 

 

I spent about 8k doing it on my own, counts bus fare, taxi, etc.  2 trips to Bangkok.  If your friend needs help speaking Thai, I can give you my wife's phone number.  He can call he if he gets stuck when he's at the immigration office in Bangkok.  She went through the entire process with me.  Relatively painless.

 

His first stop should be Jomtien immigration. They've got a nice handout that lays out the entire process and the lady will step you though it.

[ubonjoe]

15 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

Part of the reason for his visit is to open a foreign currency bank account here but he has not yet done so as physical presence is required. He could then use the combined method of part deposit and part income declaration which should get him round the seasoning requirement. It should be much easier for him to get a consular income certification here (his country has a consulate near Pattaya) than to get anything done in his home country. It would also be easier for him to go to Bangkok from Pattaya for the first visa change than to go to the Thai consulate in his home country from where he lives there.

 

That problem that will arise is getting the account opened. Many people have had problems opening an account when on a visa and even more without one (visa exempt).

Many offices now want the money to be in the bank for 60 day for the first extension even when using the combination option of income and money in the bank. I think it is the same at Jomtien when applying for the visa.

He will not be able to do the visa application in Bangkok unless he has an address for there. They have been turning people away and telling them to do it at their local office. 

Many embassies and consulates allow mailed in applications to get a single entry tourist visa. The only financial proof needed to get a single entry tourist would be the equivalent of 20k baht. For a ticket out of the country if required a low cost one way ticket would be accepted. 

He may also need ticket out within 30 days to board his flight to here without a valid visa.

[Chip Allen]

Don't bother with a conversion. The woman at that desk is a mental case. Just go to Laos and spend the night. Apply for an "O-Visa" there and come back to Thailand ready to get your retirement extension in three months. Very easy and straightforward.

[craigt3365]

5 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

That problem that will arise is getting the account opened. Many people have had problems opening an account when on a visa and even more without one (visa exempt).

Many offices now want the money to be in the bank for 60 day for the first extension even when using the combination option of income and money in the bank. I think it is the same at Jomtien when applying for the visa.

He will not be able to do the visa application in Bangkok unless he has an address for there. They have been turning people away and telling them to do it at their local office. 

Many embassies and consulates allow mailed in applications to get a single entry tourist visa. The only financial proof needed to get a single entry tourist would be the equivalent of 20k baht. For a ticket out of the country if required a low cost one way ticket would be accepted. 

He may also need ticket out within 30 days to board his flight to here without a valid visa.

Now it's all coming back.  I tried to open an account at several banks near Jomtien Immigration.  No luck with that visa.  Ended up going the income certification route.  Needed 2 letters as they wouldn't take the original one!

[craigt3365]

1 minute ago, Chip Allen said:

Don't bother with a conversion. The woman at that desk is a mental case. Just go to Laos and spend the night. Apply for an "O-Visa" there and come back to Thailand ready to get your retirement extension in three months. Very easy and straightforward.

She's tough, but helped us out.  And I didn't need to leave the country.  2 simple and cheap trips to Bangkok which I combined with visiting friends, etc.  Very easy.

 

The only pain was a trip to the MFA.  Took 1/2 day, but all in all, quite easy.

[Seeall]

I hope my simple answer can help.  Get a Non O is your country.. come here, have 800k in bank for 2 months (some say 3 but I beleive its 2 ... just make it 3)  Got to immi and get it, all easy..

[Chip Allen]

1 hour ago, craigt3365 said:

She's tough, but helped us out.  And I didn't need to leave the country.  2 simple and cheap trips to Bangkok which I combined with visiting friends, etc.  Very easy.

 

The only pain was a trip to the MFA.  Took 1/2 day, but all in all, quite easy.

I did not have that option because there was less than 21 days left on my tourist visa. It takes IO that long to use a rubber stamp. Staggering incompetence. The trip to Vientiane was educational, so it was a win.

[csabo]

9 minutes ago, Seeall said:

I hope my simple answer can help.  Get a Non O is your country.. come here, have 800k in bank for 2 months (some say 3 but I beleive its 2 ... just make it 3)  Got to immi and get it, all easy..

He specifically said he does not want a visa from home. 

"Getting any sort of visa where he lives seems to be ridiculously difficult (masses of paperwork, proof of savings, multiple pre-booked air tickets etc.)" 

[Rimmer]

A libelous post has been removed:

 

6) You will not post comments that could be reasonably construed as defamation or libel.

Defamation is the issuance of a statement about another person or business which causes that person to suffer harm. It does not have to be false to be defamatory. Libel is when the defamatory statement is published either in a drawing, painting, cinematography, film, picture or letters made visible by any means, or any other recording instruments, recording picture or letters, or by broadcasting or spreading picture, or by propagation by any other means. Defamation is both a civil and criminal charge in Thailand.
 

[ubonjoe]

1 hour ago, Seeall said:

I hope my simple answer can help.  Get a Non O is your country.. come here, have 800k in bank for 2 months (some say 3 but I beleive its 2 ... just make it 3)  Got to immi and get it, all easy..

Do a little research and you will find it can be very difficult to find a Thai embassy or official consulate that will issue a single entry non-o visa based upon being 50 or over for retirement. Most will only issue a OA long stay visa if it is in a person's home country or country of legal residence.

Even honorary consulates in some countries can no longer issue them.

[impulse]

On a related note, I read in one of the agency ads that 15 months of validity have to be remaining on a passport to get a retirement visa.  Is that correct?

[ubonjoe]

4 minutes ago, impulse said:

On a related note, I read in one of the agency ads that 15 months of validity have to be remaining on a passport to get a retirement visa.  Is that correct?

Not to get a non immigrant visa or extension of stay at immigration based upon retirement.

Some embassies might want 15 months to get a OA long stay visa.

The rules to get a multiple entry non-o visa at an embassy or consulate states 18 months is required.

[JackThompson]

8 minutes ago, impulse said:

On a related note, I read in one of the agency ads that 15 months of validity have to be remaining on a passport to get a retirement visa.  Is that correct?

If this is for making a conversion within Thailand, that would appear to include 3 mo for the conversion + 12 mo for the one-year extension.  Less, and the extension will only be the remaining-length of the passport-life.

[JackThompson]

2 hours ago, Chip Allen said:

... Just go to Laos and spend the night. Apply for an "O-Visa" there and come back to Thailand ready to get your retirement extension in three months. Very easy and straightforward.

See report here:
https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/1008811-non-immigrant-o-retired-single-entry-savannakhet-laos/?tab=comments#comment-12398628

Savanakhet may now require the police-report and health-certificate like Vientiane (that post is a first report of this, so this is not known for sure).  Even so, obtaining those and applying there is still a more viable option than a conversion where he will be living (I speak from experience).  The medical is easy to get in Thailand.  He may want to get a police-report before traveling here, if it is not difficult, to prepare for this eventuality - unless they (using Vientiane's known-policy as example) accept a police-report from Thailand? 

 

2 hours ago, craigt3365 said:

... I didn't need to leave the country.  2 simple and cheap trips to Bangkok which I combined with visiting friends, etc.  Very easy.

That would have been back when Bangkok (Chang Wattana) would do this for people not living in their service-area.  If not wanting to make a trip out, staying in Bangkok until the conversion is done would be another option.  This is preferable, if the paperwork for a Non-O in the region and/or the trip to get it is undesirable.

[impulse]

27 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

If this is for making a conversion within Thailand, that would appear to include 3 mo for the conversion + 12 mo for the one-year extension.  Less, and the extension will only be the remaining-length of the passport-life.

 

I've got no problem with the extension lasting less than a year, but changing passports (passport numbers) is a PITA for some banking purposes and visas for other countries.  So I'd be happy to get an extension that only lasts 8 months (for example), then get another when I do have to change passports.  Right now I have a little over a year left on my passport, but not the 15 months...

[JackThompson]

1 minute ago, impulse said:

I've got no problem with the extension lasting less than a year, but changing passports (passport numbers) is a PITA for some banking purposes and visas for other countries.  So I'd be happy to get an extension that only lasts 8 months (for example), then get another when I do have to change passports.  Right now I have a little over a year left on my passport, but not the 15 months...

The extension-length cannot exceed passport-validity.  I would inquire with them to be sure, but others have reported receiving extensions for reduced-time when their passport expired before the full-year of the extension. 

[impulse]

16 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

The extension-length cannot exceed passport-validity.  I would inquire with them to be sure, but others have reported receiving extensions for reduced-time when their passport expired before the full-year of the extension. 

 

Again, that's not an issue- as long as I can get the retirement extension at all.  But I need to plan my travels and banking carefully before I change passport numbers.  Some banking systems aren't as easy to deal with as Thai banks (hard for some people to believe, I know- but true), and require a personal visit (and almost an anal probe) to change any information on the account.  If I can put that off for 6 months, I can plan those travels better.

 

Edited October 31, 2017 by impulse

[ubonjoe]

43 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

Savanakhet may now require the police-report and health-certificate like Vientiane (that post is a first report of this, so this is not known for sure). 

You failed to read this post in the topic. It really was at Vientiane.

 

[JackThompson]

1 minute ago, ubonjoe said:

You failed to read this post in the topic. It really was at Vientiane.

 

Thanks for catching that.  So Savanakhet is still a better option. OP can skip the police-report effort, and still have a trip out for a Non-O as a viable option.

[ubonjoe]

16 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

Thanks for catching that.  So Savanakhet is still a better option. OP can skip the police-report effort, and still have a trip out for a Non-O as a viable option.

If you read the posts after that there is discussion about Savannakhet requirements. If using money in the bank proof of retirement is also required. That can be done with a income letter showing even a small amount of income. 

[craigt3365]

1 hour ago, JackThompson said:

See report here:
https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/1008811-non-immigrant-o-retired-single-entry-savannakhet-laos/?tab=comments#comment-12398628

Savanakhet may now require the police-report and health-certificate like Vientiane (that post is a first report of this, so this is not known for sure).  Even so, obtaining those and applying there is still a more viable option than a conversion where he will be living (I speak from experience).  The medical is easy to get in Thailand.  He may want to get a police-report before traveling here, if it is not difficult, to prepare for this eventuality - unless they (using Vientiane's known-policy as example) accept a police-report from Thailand? 

 

That would have been back when Bangkok (Chang Wattana) would do this for people not living in their service-area.  If not wanting to make a trip out, staying in Bangkok until the conversion is done would be another option.  This is preferable, if the paperwork for a Non-O in the region and/or the trip to get it is undesirable.

Chang Wattana was for the Ministry of Foreign Affairs to stamp my income verification letter.  I didn't go to immigration there.  Didn't have to do a medical.  Didn't have to do a police report.

 

I had to go back because I needed another income verification letter.  They wouldn't allow me to use the first one again, but it didn't need the MFA stamp.

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, craigt3365 said:

Chang Wattana was for the Ministry of Foreign Affairs to stamp my income verification letter.  I didn't go to immigration there.  Didn't have to do a medical.  Didn't have to do a police report.

 

I had to go back because I needed another income verification letter.  They wouldn't allow me to use the first one again, but it didn't need the MFA stamp.

The medical and police were for a Non-O from Vientiane - not conversions.  I thought also maybe needed for Savanakhet, but that report was incorrect - now corrected.

 

The 2nd income-verification letter was needed for the 1-year extension, correct?  No other desk in Jomtien has been reported to ask for MFA Certification of income-letters.   And the 2nd letter was only needed, because the conversion-office wouldn't let you re-use the first one - as is common-practice in most offices.

 

Regarding conversions in-country: 

I understand that office used to allow income-letters for conversions, but only with an MFA certification - which is why I got my income-letter MFA-certified, before attempting my conversion.  I had a list of the requirements given at the front-desk (weeks before), which originated in Bangkok.  I met or exceeded each requirement plus the MFA-cert step (not shown on the official list).

 

But when I showed up to do the conversion, I was given a new list (no official name/number on this printout) with no income-options on it at all, and I was told my MFA-stamped embassy-income-doc (backed up by a bank-book showing excess of that income, from foreign-transfers, going back months) would not qualify to get a conversion At All - Period - End of story.

 

It appears more people found out about the MFA cert extra-step, and were showing up prepared with this.  Accordingly, the goalposts had to be moved to prevent those people (like me) from getting service - unless using an agent, of course.  I'll let you guess why.

 

Thank goodness UJ had told us how to get the MFA-Cert by mail (thanks again, UJ), so it was only a small loss of time/money (vs a trip to Bangkok) - or I might have had steam blowing out my ears when I realized the goalposts had been moved arbitrarily - yet again. 

 

Blowing a gasket could have led to problems in that office in the future - not a good move - even if well-justified.  Fortunately, I had mentally prepared myself - and warned my wife - that we were walking into situation were (according to multiple reports here) the goal was to deny us service, likely on some invented technicality.  Sure enough...

 

Therefore, I would advise anyone considering Conversions in Jomtien - including the OP - to use the other options available, and save themselves a pointless waste of money, time, and headaches.

[KittenKong]

9 hours ago, craigt3365 said:

This isn't an agent, it's Jomtien immigration.  And you get an extra 3 months visa as part of it.  I was offered 16k but I heard a friend just did it and paid 25k.  Not sure why the difference. 

 

Yes, I understand that in your case it was immigration themselves who did it. But I think that the end result is the same whether one does it via an agent or via immigration directly. It's all still tea money as far as I can see. My friend would probably rather have an agent do it and not go in person at all, if he cant do it the official and lowest-cost way.

 

Anyway, I will tell him the options and he will decide for himself if it's worth the extra trouble of getting a visa before travelling. As I mentioned, he also has some time constraints that would probably preclude him staying here for three months anyway.

 

Thanks to all who commented.

[KittenKong]

9 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Many embassies and consulates allow mailed in applications to get a single entry tourist visa. The only financial proof needed to get a single entry tourist would be the equivalent of 20k baht. For a ticket out of the country if required a low cost one way ticket would be accepted. 

 

The visa he was offered in his home country had these conditions:

 

Have to show 2 return airplane tickets for the 6 months period with fixed travel dates. Obligatory!

Cost of application - 150 EUR.

Appropriate hotel reservations (not a problem of course).

Several official documents from his local Inland Revenue. Hard to get as his new company is too recently established, and his old one is closed.

Local bank statement that his average account balance has never dropped under 5000 EUR in the last 6 months.

 

It may be that he didnt enquire closely enough about what other visas may be available, and I will tell him to ask again, but I think most people would consider the above list quite excessive.

[ubonjoe]

4 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

 

The visa he was offered in his home country had these conditions:

Those are the requirements to apply for a multiple entry tourist visa that allows unlimited 60 day entries for 6 months. He only needs a single entry tourist visa.