Gunman opens fire at Texas church, killing at least 20

[alex8912]

13 minutes ago, shaurene said:

Here we go again. Trump and congres will not do anything to control of any and all Americans have the right to own as many guns as they want. The constitution says they can. To many high ups have a lot of money invested in weapons company's. Money is 100% the most important thing to them.

they really do not give a shit when some nut case goes on a turkey shoot.

To much fast foods and Coca Cola infecting their little brains.

Congres will tell Trump what to do, and that will be to turn a blind eye.

Under Obamas rule a class of 20+ 5 and 6  year olds were killed in affluent Newtown, Connecticut. You think that would have been a real turning point.  There are no fast food restaurants in Newtown as in many many USA communities BTW. 

[ilostmypassword]

2 minutes ago, alex8912 said:

  There are no fast food restaurants in Newtown as in many many USA communities BTW. 

And as everyone knows, Newtown is actually a giant gulag and no one is allowed out of it.

[NanLaew]

2 hours ago, wwest5829 said:

Firmly support ownership, after a background check and a required training course. Weapons limited for hunting, pistol for home defense. Firmly oppose ownership of assault type weapons, silencers, devices to cause automatic firing.

I am sure there's a whole lot of other, responsible gun owners with the same attitude but what's the percentage that are totally opposed to any and all forms of gun regulating and licensing? They certainly seem to be the most vocal even if it is mostly fueled by all the wrong reasons as well as bare faced lies and total nonsense.

 

In the article linked earlier, this guy apparently bought this assault rifle at the local sports shop. By simply checking the 'No' box on the purchasers questionnaire, thus claiming he wasn't in any way restricted from buying guns, he was able to flaunt the regulations and walk out with the weapon. He had a court martial in 2012 which apparently red-flags gun purchasing. If he had been more honest (yeah right), and the enforcement of the rules more rigorous than a gun buyer checking a box on a questionnaire, he would have been prevented from buying it. Unfortunately, the simplest of some gun ownership regulations that are on a few sensible and pragmatic state's legislation such as doing an actual background check of databases and even having a simple, logical 7-day 'approval' delay is met with derision by the those that declare to be upholding America's basic rights. They even call this delay a 'cooling off' period for Christ's sake, because they already know that impulsive gun purchases are highly likely to have entirely the wrong motivation. Thus the nut jobs and the psychos that the NRA says is the real problem STILL have free reign to buy weapons. If you are not a nut job and a psycho and love your country and have nothing to hide, why on God's green earth would one NOT want to be officially recognized as such? Otherwise one just becomes one of the 'thugs' and 'bad guys' that the NRA claims will rule the nation if any sort of real gun control is introduced.

 

Send in the clowns much?

[alex8912]

2 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

And as everyone knows, Newtown is actually a giant gulag and no one is allowed out of it.

Silly post. You are not supposed to to quote a small part of my larger post and most readers don't know what a gulag is and I would not bother to look it up. Have you been to Newtown? I grew up 2 towns over. It's a beautiful wealthy hilly small town about 90k from NYC. Has a picture postcard main st and has lovely residents and beautiful homes, including some in my family 

RIP to the kids there and to the recent people in Texas which seems to be another town with nice folks. 

[Jingthing]

4 hours ago, JCauto said:

Thoughts and prayers!

Too soon to discuss gun control in light of these terrible events.

Good guy with a gun can prevent this! If only Texas had laws allowing that...

Mental illness! (i.e., white guy)

Thoughts and prayers are 100 percent USELESS!

Now IS the time yet AGAIN to talk about gun control.

And again and again and again and again and again ..

Dude, people are wise now to the right wing B.S. about the timing of talking about gun control.

These mass shootings are a constant!

The gun nuts game is that there is NO TIME ever to talk about it.

 

[Rancid]

Horrific. One theory about why the US has so many of these is prescription drugs and the side effects they don't tell you about as they gleefully ring up the register.

[Caps]

Its a sad thing to say but the Yanks dont need terrorists to kill them off.  They do a good enough job themselves.

RIP to all killed

[impulse]

34 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

1 hour ago, pattayadon said:

What can you change?

Are you serious?

 

Absolutely serious.  Pandora's box is already open.  How would you go about getting the 300 million guns away from the bad guys along with the good guys?  Maybe the good guys will turn theirs in...  But that leaves them defenseless against the bad guys who can declare open season to burglarize all the undefended homes.

 

[mikebike]

27 minutes ago, alex8912 said:

Under Obamas rule a class of 20+ 5 and 6  year olds were killed in affluent Newtown, Connecticut. You think that would have been a real turning point.  There are no fast food restaurants in Newtown as in many many USA communities BTW. 

1. mass shootings have happened under all administrations in living memory;

 

2. In the wake of Sandy Hook, the gun-rights lobby outspent, out-organized and out-maneuvered gun-control advocates at both the state and federal level. A FRONTLINE examination of state legislation and federal lobbying expenditures shows that gun-rights groups outspent gun-control backers by nearly $10 million, and that around the country, states passed more than twice as many laws expanding gun owners’ rights than they did gun-control measures. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/how-the-gun-rights-lobby-won-after-newtown/

 

3. A list of restaurants in Newtown lists burger joint(s), pizza joint(s), and Asian "quick bite" joints. All fast food in my book.

[mikebike]

2 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

Absolutely serious.  Pandora's box is already open.  How would you go about getting the 300 million guns away from the bad guys along with the good guys?  Maybe the good guys will turn theirs in...  But that leaves them defenseless against the bad guys who can declare open season to burglarize all the undefended homes.

 

Gee how would you do that? Without any precedent? Not as though Aus went through this 20 yrs ago...

[alex8912]

2 minutes ago, mikebike said:

1. mass shootings have happened under all administrations in living memory;

 

2. In the wake of Sandy Hook, the gun-rights lobby outspent, out-organized and out-maneuvered gun-control advocates at both the state and federal level. A FRONTLINE examination of state legislation and federal lobbying expenditures shows that gun-rights groups outspent gun-control backers by nearly $10 million, and that around the country, states passed more than twice as many laws expanding gun owners’ rights than they did gun-control measures. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/how-the-gun-rights-lobby-won-after-newtown/

 

3. A list of restaurants in Newtown lists burger joint(s), pizza joint(s), and Asian "quick bite" joints. All fast food in my book.

Nothing happened under Obamas term. That was the point. I can't believed you took time to research Newtown. Good for you. Italian restaurants and places that sell burgers or pizza are not Burger King or McDonalds. You are the big big winner!! Yah!! Go  Mikebike. Can you research the meaning of life now? You certainly have the time. 

[lannarebirth]

3 hours ago, craigt3365 said:

I was referring to acid attacks, truck attacks, bomb attacks....but yes, restricting guns would be a great first step.  Sadly, the worst terrorist attacks in the US were not carried out by guns.  I lived through the worst one....

You know what else you find in every small town where the NRA holds sway? A US Military Recruitment Center. These folks are America's cannon fodder and they love their nation all the more for it. They are willing to fight on the US's behalf to uphold the 2nd Amendment, even if that's not what or who they are really fighting for and they're not too sure what else in in the Constitution. In my mind a military draft will be necessary to keep service meber numbers up, but is a good trade off for gun control but I'm not sure everyone would agree.

[mikebike]

17 minutes ago, alex8912 said:

Nothing happened under Obamas term. That was the point. I can't believed you took time to research Newtown. Good for you. Italian restaurants and places that sell burgers or pizza are not Burger King or McDonalds. You are the big big winner!! Yah!! Go  Mikebike. Can you research the meaning of life now? You certainly have the time. 

Not sure what you are upset about.

 

Nothing happened because people and legislators of good intent were overpowered by money in politics. The same happened before 44 and the same is happening now.

 

Fast food does not exclusively refer to the global franchise mob. Your claim that Newtown had none was patently absurd.

 

Calling out spotty posts and claims is fun!

Edited November 6, 2017 by mikebike
sp

[Grouse]

32 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

Absolutely serious.  Pandora's box is already open.  How would you go about getting the 300 million guns away from the bad guys along with the good guys?  Maybe the good guys will turn theirs in...  But that leaves them defenseless against the bad guys who can declare open season to burglarize all the undefended homes.

 

So what? Give them your TV if they're that desperate! Use the gun money to make your house more secure.

 

An Englishman's home is his castle. I'm digging a moat and replacing my windows with arrow slits. They're not getting my TV! Ha!

[wwest5829]

57 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

I am sure there's a whole lot of other, responsible gun owners with the same attitude but what's the percentage that are totally opposed to any and all forms of gun regulating and licensing? They certainly seem to be the most vocal even if it is mostly fueled by all the wrong reasons as well as bare faced lies and total nonsense.

 

In the article linked earlier, this guy apparently bought this assault rifle at the local sports shop. By simply checking the 'No' box on the purchasers questionnaire, thus claiming he wasn't in any way restricted from buying guns, he was able to flaunt the regulations and walk out with the weapon. He had a court martial in 2012 which apparently red-flags gun purchasing. If he had been more honest (yeah right), and the enforcement of the rules more rigorous than a gun buyer checking a box on a questionnaire, he would have been prevented from buying it. Unfortunately, the simplest of some gun ownership regulations that are on a few sensible and pragmatic state's legislation such as doing an actual background check of databases and even having a simple, logical 7-day 'approval' delay is met with derision by the those that declare to be upholding America's basic rights. They even call this delay a 'cooling off' period for Christ's sake, because they already know that impulsive gun purchases are highly likely to have entirely the wrong motivation. Thus the nut jobs and the psychos that the NRA says is the real problem STILL have free reign to buy weapons. If you are not a nut job and a psycho and love your country and have nothing to hide, why on God's green earth would one NOT want to be officially recognized as such? Otherwise one just becomes one of the 'thugs' and 'bad guys' that the NRA claims will rule the nation if any sort of real gun control is introduced.

 

Send in the clowns much?

Yep. Beware the well organized, vocal minority. I would think the majority of US citizens want a continuation of gun ownership. But it is the extreme that prevents stronger, and as you point out, enforced background checks. The right wingnuts put forth the claim that citizens are to be armed to prevent being treated roughshod by a tyrannical government. My view is that if you are that worried about your nation's government, you have already lost your country. Ha! But in these days and times, I will confess concern of having my rights trampled underfoot ... seizing firearms is not one of my fears.

[FritsSikkink]

37 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

Absolutely serious.  Pandora's box is already open.  How would you go about getting the 300 million guns away from the bad guys along with the good guys?  Maybe the good guys will turn theirs in...  But that leaves them defenseless against the bad guys who can declare open season to burglarize all the undefended homes.

 

Ask Australia's government, they did it there years ago.

"But that leaves them defenseless against the bad guys who can declare open season to burglarize all the undefended homes."

Don't start that bull, it works in every other country.

[Jingthing]

The clown potus in Japan is already dismissing this as a "mental health" issue (which he has no answers to either except to work to dismantle the U.S. health care system) and of course the ever predictable it's "too soon" to talk about any gun control issues. Translation -- NEVER.

SICK! 

 

The truth is LAS VEGAS is already old news, nothing will be done in response to that, and even though TEXAS was a massive mass shooting event, it was much smaller than Vegas. Which means all of this is now being totally normalized and basically always expected.

 

How did the "can do" nation become so crippled? 

Edited November 6, 2017 by Jingthing

[wwest5829]

1 minute ago, Grouse said:

So what? Give them your TV if they're that desperate! Use the gun money to make your house more secure.

 

An Englishman's home is his castle. I'm digging a moat and replacing my windows with arrow slits. They're not getting my TV! Ha!

While I am Buddhist and left of center, it is not my TV I am concerned about. The US has a drug epidemic, there are those who might well threaten life to get money to buy drugs. If using force or stealth to enter my home and threaten me or my family, I would have absolutely putting an end to their misery ... better luck next life. See, like other "well balanced" and educated humans I can argue the issues ... it all depends.....

[Thaidream]

There is no reason to take away the right of a person to own  one handgun for protection or one rifle for hunting or protection. What needs to be restricted  is the ownership of automatic or semi automatic weapons as well as unlimited purchase of rounds of ammunition and unlimited purchases of multiple handguns or multiple  rifles. In addition- a nationwide database of weapons purchased must be established.  In addition- all purchasers of guns must be vetted and the law needs to apply America wide with a 7 day waiting period.

 

It's time legislators stopped being 'bought' by the NRA or any other organization that advocates unlimited purchase of guns and keeps using the Second Amendment as a source. The amendment states American have the right to bear arms- it does not say that right includes the purchase of multiple weapons to include weapons of war such as semi auto and auto weapons. Until legislators start to do the right thing and restrict the sale of weapons- expect more carnage- because guns kill people . They always have and they always will.

[Grouse]

Immediately bring back Clinton's law against semEYE automatics

 

Long term, it's a mindset thing. Need to get American women to understand that real men don't need guns to take care of their wives and families. Gun toting American men are just big softies!

[mikebike]

1 minute ago, wwest5829 said:

While I am Buddhist and left of center, it is not my TV I am concerned about. The US has a drug epidemic, there are those who might well threaten life to get money to buy drugs. If using force or stealth to enter my home and threaten me or my family, I would have absolutely putting an end to their misery ... better luck next life. See, like other "well balanced" and educated humans I can argue the issues ... it all depends.....

Except for a small thing called facts.

 

Statistically you are much more likely to kill or injure yourself or a family member than to thwart an intruder.

[Grouse]

3 minutes ago, wwest5829 said:

While I am Buddhist and left of center, it is not my TV I am concerned about. The US has a drug epidemic, there are those who might well threaten life to get money to buy drugs. If using force or stealth to enter my home and threaten me or my family, I would have absolutely putting an end to their misery ... better luck next life. See, like other "well balanced" and educated humans I can argue the issues ... it all depends.....

How much cash do you keep in the house? I use an ATM.

[buick]

35 minutes ago, alex8912 said:

Nothing happened under Obamas term.

maybe i'm missing the context of your comment.  are you saying there were no crazy folks gunning people down during his term ?  google dylan roof.  he took a few people out in a church. crazy folk have been using guns to kill multiple people at a time for a long time.  it happened alot under obama's term and the presidents before him.

[wwest5829]

6 minutes ago, Grouse said:

How much cash do you keep in the house? I use an ATM.

ha! You figure a drug addled addict is going to try to figure that out before attempting a robbery?

Edited November 6, 2017 by wwest5829

[vogie]

How can anyone not feel uncomfortable in a situation like this?

[Thaidream]

Yes- it happened during every President's term and it will happen ad infinitum until  a solid and workable gun control bill is passed and until universal healthcare is passed to include free mental health treatment. Instead, we are left with greedy gun manufacturers and greedy hospitals profiting off the misery of  the dead and injured.

[wwest5829]

8 minutes ago, mikebike said:

Except for a small thing called facts.

 

Statistically you are much more likely to kill or injure yourself or a family member than to thwart an intruder.

Statistically speaking, I do not question. Applying the "norm" to me, I do not accept. Hmmm, had guns in the house all the years my two Sons were growing up ... all survived nicely ... oh, and no one broke into the house when someone was home, so that test does not come into play.

[Retiredandhappyhere]

3 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Switzerland has very high gun possession. Yet we don't hear of mass shootings and killings there.

 

It's isn't the guns per se. It's far greater than that. Drugs, films and computer games glorifying violence, guns and murder, and lack of mental health care. The world is changing at an ever increasing rate. Not all humans can deal well with that complexity and uncertainty. 

Banning guns, knives and any weapons will be as effective as banning drugs. Seek new solutions.

"seek new solutions".  You mean like guns that do not work?   That could do it!

[mikebike]

4 minutes ago, wwest5829 said:

Statistically speaking, I do not question. Applying the "norm" to me, I do not accept. Hmmm, had guns in the house all the years my two Sons were growing up ... all survived nicely ... oh, and no one broke into the house when someone was home, so that test does not come into play.

Ah - individual exceptionalism. Are you applying that to the lowest common denominator?

 

Edited November 6, 2017 by mikebike

[Grouse]

14 minutes ago, wwest5829 said:

ha! You figure a drug addled addict is going to try to figure that out before attempting a robbery?

Don't be silly

 

Even drug addicts would not expect to get enough cash to be worthwhile. Burglars are after your high value electronics. 

 

Just give them them up and claim on insurance

 

Have some balance!