Trump says Texas shooting due to 'mental health problem,' not a gun issue

[Catoni]

7 minutes ago, juice777 said:

 

 

27 people dead before they chased him away did he run out of bullets first?

Sorry I am not totally convinced they saved anyone life's.

As for getting a vehicle and running people down well that's a new worry. But could that guy form Las Vegas have killed over 50 people like that.That seems like a new worry. And America has had mass shooting for as long as I can remember. Could all those depressed confused teenagers get it together to get build a bomb I doubt it. Is there a massive industry based around bombs.Can I buy bomb magazines? Can I buy bombs in the local supermarket with my cornflakes. Can I drink a few beers and go to the local bomb range? What utter nonsense.


It doesn't matter what excuses you come up with. I am sure people life's have been saved my legal gun ownership. But I doubley sure that more life's have been lost because of legal gun ownership. And that's the simple truth. I said before I will say it again.

More guns mean more shotings more shotings mean more deaths.

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        Timothy James McVeigh........The Toronto 18.....and others......      Yes... it is ridiculously easy to build a bomb..  Have you been living in a hole under a rock for most of your life?

[brucec64]

it worked in Australia.

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The second amendment is exactly that. An amendment to the constitution. which means it can be repealed. that is the first step. then some real gun laws can be put into place.

every other first world country has this. stop with the arguments that somehow your society is so different or special.

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[Catoni]

11 minutes ago, juice777 said:

 

 

27 people dead before they chased him away did he run out of bullets first?

Sorry I am not totally convinced they saved anyone life's.

As for getting a vehicle and running people down well that's a new worry. But could that guy form Las Vegas have killed over 50 people like that.That seems like a new worry. And America has had mass shooting for as long as I can remember. Could all those depressed confused teenagers get it together to get build a bomb I doubt it. Is there a massive industry based around bombs.Can I buy bomb magazines? Can I buy bombs in the local supermarket with my cornflakes. Can I drink a few beers and go to the local bomb range? What utter nonsense.


It doesn't matter what excuses you come up with. I am sure people life's have been saved my legal gun ownership. But I doubley sure that more life's have been lost because of legal gun ownership. And that's the simple truth. I said before I will say it again.

More guns mean more shotings more shotings mean more deaths.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk
 

 

           When the first shots are fired...  you have to determine they are gun shots....  a few seconds... then you have to go get your own rifle..... more time.  If your rifle is locked in a gun safe, and with a triggr lock...  more time to unlock it.. if i is unloaded...  more time to load it.. then you have to run to where the shots are being fired... more time...     Lots of time for someone to fire more than twenty shots... forty shots... even fifty... 

 

   The private citizen did what he was able to do in the time he had....and confronted the armed murderer and deserves our thanks and an award. 

 

I'm guessing you are a leftist/socialist wearing rose colored glasses....  You would rather this killer just run free with no one stopping him.  This is a very tiny community..smaller than even a village......   maybe one police officer.. if any.   Police might not be on duty all the time..or have to come some distance .... . ALL law abiding citizens have the right to self defence and to defend other people if able.  Just because we hire people to be police... does not mean we also surrender our right to self defence. 

     Now you can go back to reading your copy of the "Works of Lenin". 

[juice777]

 

 

 

    There are about 500 million privately owned firearms in the U.S.    I'm willing to hear your solution.  

 

Do you make a blanket law outlawing all private ownership of guns?   Okay.....  so the law-abiding people hand their guns in, and the criminals get to keep their guns.... (they are criminals... they don't give a damn about what laws you make.)

      Or do you propose black clad SWAT teams go door to door all over the country confiscating guns?  Will that work?  

  What do you do with otherwise law-abiding citizens that don't go along with your dictate?   Put them in "Re-education/Labor Camps" ? ? 

 

But law abiding people can't snap and run in a church and shoot other innocent people if they didn't have guns. You pointed out that they are criminals and they don't give a dam. So I would suggest that they don't give a Dam at the moment if the incident people have guns or not. They are still going carry of breaking the law regardless if they think there victims have guns or not. These type of people don't care about there own life so they certainly don't care about other peoples.And if you don't care about your own life I bet you don't care about if the house you are breaking in to has a gun or not. So I very much doubt if crime would go up if gun ownership was banned. And who knows maybe even some criminals might stop carrying guns, If they knew there victims are not going to pull out a assault rifle on them.

 

To tell the Truth I don't even know why I am debating this it's just a different way of thinking. I fill sorry for the 50% of Americans who don't agree with legal guns who have to put up with nonsense like this.

 

 

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[Catoni]

2 minutes ago, juice777 said:

 

 

But law abiding people can't snap and run in a church and shoot other innocent people if they didn't have guns. You pointed out that they are criminals and they don't give a dam. So I would suggest that they don't give a Dam at the moment if the incident people have guns or not. They are still going carry of breaking the law regardless if they think there victims have guns or not. These type of people don't care about there own life so they certainly don't care about other peoples.And if you don't care about your own life I bet you don't care about if the house you are breaking in to has a gun or not. So I very much doubt if crime would go up if gun ownership was banned. And who knows maybe even some criminals might stop carrying guns, If they knew there victims are not going to pull out a assault rifle on them.

To tell the Truth I don't even know why I am debating this it's just a different way of thinking. I fill sorry for the 50% of Americans who have to put up with nonsense like this.

 

 

 

 

 

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  Just to let you know.... I'm not even a U.S. citizen... I'm born and bred Canadian... and grew up with guns in the house.  My dad was a Canadian military officer and businessman.  And he had guns in our house.  My brothers and I always knew were the guns and ammo were kept. 

         My grandfather had guns......and they said guns had always been in the family on both sides.  I was shooting by the time I was seven back in the 1950's with my dad and grandparents and uncles.. Won my first marksmanship certificates by 12 years of age with .22 rifle.  But as I grew... I was shooting Lee Enfield .303 and shotguns and a Winchester built 30.06 M-1 Garand and .44 revolver..    Yeah...  as I even owned a AR-15 5.56/.223 rifle. All legal.

     Rifles, shotguns, pistols.  That's how my brothers and I were raised.  On camping trips fishing for our breakfast in the morning...  hunting for our dinner in the afternoon.    That's how our family has been for generations in North America.....  both in Canada and the U.S.   (Family in both countries.)

       As the family genealogist..... there is no record of any bad incident with guns in our family history...  except when family fought in wars...  

   Sure .... time has gone by..... things are different.... but I still love freedom.  

      

 

[juice777]

Sorry double post

 

 

 

[juice777]

Sorry Tripple post

 

 

 

[juice777]

        Timothy James McVeigh........The Toronto 18.....and others......      Yes... it is ridiculously easy to build a bomb..  Have you been living in a hole under a rock for most of your life?

It might be easy but it's not at easy as firing a gun. And it's no where as easy as buying a gun. And you have to plan to build a bomb. You can't just come home and find you wife in bed with your neighbour nip in the tool shed build a bomb come back and blow them up. I read so many stories about suicide bombers going wrong and just injuring a few people That it can go wrong a lot. It sounds a lot harder then nipping down Walmart and buying a couple of assault rifles. At this moment in time I have absolutely no idea how to build a bomb. So if I snapped for some reason I couldn't blow anyone up. But if I had access to guns I could figure that out. Now if I was going to plan to build a bomb I might change my mind when I calm down.or get caught my the police in the planing stage. Just because there has been some successful bomb attacks by some Nutters. It dose not mean Americas would suffer the same amount of deaths as they do with guns . Has Australia replaced gun deaths with bomb deaths since they banned guns. No it has saved life's. Even if there is a Increase in bomb attacks there still won't be accidental shootings. Or toddlers taking there's mums gun out of there handbag and shotings her in the head.

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[juice777]

        Timothy James McVeigh........The Toronto 18.....and others......      Yes... it is ridiculously easy to build a bomb..  Have you been living in a hole under a rock for most of your life?

It might be easy but it's not at easy as firing a gun. And it's no where as easy as buying a gun. And you have to plan to build a bomb. You can't just come home and find you wife in bed with your neighbour nip in the tool shed build a bomb come back and blow them up. I read so many stories about suicide bombers going wrong and just injuring a few people That it can go wrong a lot. It sounds a lot harder then nipping down Walmart and buying a couple of assault rifles. At this moment in time I have absolutely no idea how to build a bomb. So if I snapped for some reason I couldn't blow anyone up. But if I had access to guns I could figure that out. Now if I was going to plan to build a bomb I might change my mind when I calm down.or get caught my the police in the planing stage. Just because there has been some successful bomb attacks by some Nutters. It dose not mean Americas would suffer the same amount of deaths as they do with guns . Has Australia replaced gun deaths with bomb deaths since they banned guns. No it has saved life's. Even if there is a Increase in bomb attacks there still won't be accidental shootings. Or toddlers taking there's mums gun out of there handbag and shotings her in the head.

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[juice777]

        Timothy James McVeigh........The Toronto 18.....and others......      Yes... it is ridiculously easy to build a bomb..  Have you been living in a hole under a rock for most of your life?

It might be easy but it's not at easy as firing a gun. And it's no where as easy as buying a gun. And you have to plan to build a bomb. You can't just come home and find you wife in bed with your neighbour nip in the tool shed build a bomb come back and blow them up. I read so many stories about suicide bombers going wrong and just injuring a few people That it can go wrong a lot. It sounds a lot harder then nipping down Walmart and buying a couple of assault rifles. At this moment in time I have absolutely no idea how to build a bomb. So if I snapped for some reason I couldn't blow anyone up. But if I had access to guns I could figure that out. Now if I was going to plan to build a bomb I might change my mind when I calm down.or get caught my the police in the planing stage. Just because there has been some successful bomb attacks by some Nutters. It dose not mean Americas would suffer the same amount of deaths as they do with guns . Has Australia replaced gun deaths with bomb deaths since they banned guns. No it has saved life's. Even if there is a Increase in bomb attacks there still won't be accidental shootings. Or toddlers taking there's mums gun out of there handbag and shotings her in the head.

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[juice777]

        Timothy James McVeigh........The Toronto 18.....and others......      Yes... it is ridiculously easy to build a bomb..  Have you been living in a hole under a rock for most of your life?

It might be easy but it's not at easy as firing a gun. And it's no where as easy as buying a gun. And you have to plan to build a bomb. You can't just come home and find you wife in bed with your neighbour nip in the tool shed build a bomb come back and blow them up. I read so many stories about suicide bombers going wrong and just injuring a few people That it can go wrong a lot. It sounds a lot harder then nipping down Walmart and buying a couple of assault rifles. At this moment in time I have absolutely no idea how to build a bomb. So if I snapped for some reason I couldn't blow anyone up. But if I had access to guns I could figure that out. Now if I was going to plan to build a bomb I might change my mind when I calm down.or get caught my the police in the planing stage. Just because there has been some successful bomb attacks by some Nutters. It dose not mean Americas would suffer the same amount of deaths as they do with guns . Has Australia replaced gun deaths with bomb deaths since they banned guns. No it has saved life's. Even if there is a Increase in bomb attacks there still won't be accidental shootings. Or toddlers taking there's mums gun out of there handbag and shotings her in the head.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

[juice777]

        Timothy James McVeigh........The Toronto 18.....and others......      Yes... it is ridiculously easy to build a bomb..  Have you been living in a hole under a rock for most of your life?

It might be easy but it's not at easy as firing a gun. And it's no where as easy as buying a gun. And you have to plan to build a bomb. You can't just come home and find you wife in bed with your neighbour nip in the tool shed build a bomb come back and blow them up. I read so many stories about suicide bombers going wrong and just injuring a few people That it can go wrong a lot. It sounds a lot harder then nipping down Walmart and buying a couple of assault rifles. At this moment in time I have absolutely no idea how to build a bomb. So if I snapped for some reason I couldn't blow anyone up. But if I had access to guns I could figure that out. Now if I was going to plan to build a bomb I might change my mind when I calm down.or get caught my the police in the planing stage. Just because there has been some successful bomb attacks by some Nutters. It dose not mean Americas would suffer the same amount of deaths as they do with guns . Has Australia replaced gun deaths with bomb deaths since they banned guns. No it has saved life's. Even if there is a Increase in bomb attacks there still won't be accidental shootings. Or toddlers taking there's mums gun out of there handbag and shotings her in the head.

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[juice777]

Sorry same post again

 

[juice777]

           When the first shots are fired...  you have to determine they are gun shots....  a few seconds... then you have to go get your own rifle..... more time.  If your rifle is locked in a gun safe, and with a triggr lock...  more time to unlock it.. if i is unloaded...  more time to load it.. then you have to run to where the shots are being fired... more time...     Lots of time for someone to fire more than twenty shots... forty shots... even fifty... 
 
   The private citizen did what he was able to do in the time he had....and confronted the armed murderer and deserves our thanks and an award. 
 
I'm guessing you are a leftist/socialist wearing rose colored glasses....  You would rather this killer just run free with no one stopping him.  This is a very tiny community..smaller than even a village......   maybe one police officer.. if any.   Police might not be on duty all the time..or have to come some distance .... . ALL law abiding citizens have the right to self defence and to defend other people if able.  Just because we hire people to be police... does not mean we also surrender our right to self defence. 
     Now you can go back to reading your copy of the "Works of Lenin". 

You are guessing I am a leftist socialist because I don't believe in easy access to legal guns classic.

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[juice777]

  Just to let you know.... I'm not even a U.S. citizen... I'm born and bred Canadian... and grew up with guns in the house.  My dad was a Canadian military officer and businessman.  And he had guns in our house.  My brothers and I always knew were the guns and ammo were kept. 
         My grandfather had guns......and they said guns had always been in the family on both sides.  I was shooting by the time I was seven back in the 1950's with my dad and grandparents and uncles.. Won my first marksmanship certificates by 12 years of age with .22 rifle.  But as I grew... I was shooting Lee Enfield .303 and shotguns and a Winchester built 30.06 M-1 Garand and .44 revolver..    Yeah...  as I even owned a AR-15 5.56/.223 rifle. All legal.
     Rifles, shotguns, pistols.  That's how my brothers and I were raised.  On camping trips fishing for our breakfast in the morning...  hunting for our dinner in the afternoon.    That's how our family has been for generations in North America.....  both in Canada and the U.S.   (Family in both countries.)
       As the family genealogist..... there is no record of any bad incident with guns in our family history...  except when family fought in wars...  
   Sure .... time has gone by..... things are different.... but I still love freedom.  
      
 

Yes I've herd somewhere there is more Guns in Canada per person then there is in The USA. But hardly any Deaths. This just goes to show that there is no way Americans should have easy access to guns. To many of them unlike Canadians can't be trusted with them. I am not going to speculate why this is its simply just an observation.

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[Grouse]

17 hours ago, Basil B said:

Is there any evidence of mental illness or is Trump shooting from the hip again?

Yes, he was court martialled for assaulting his wife!

[anon789561]

not a gun issue. the fact he was able to purchase a military grade rifle would suggest otherwise 555. trumps so full of shit 

[digger70]

On 11/6/2017 at 2:58 PM, Jools said:

Logic like this is an insult to victims of guns. The mentally ill have no business buying guns. We have seen where that leades.

Criminals have no business buying guns either,,,,,BUT THEY DO IT ILLEGALLY,,,,,This is not an insult to gun victims it's an statement to Morons  who believe it is.

[Jingthing]

It is a guns situation. 

 

Mentally bizarre trump as usual totally wrong. 

 

"Lawmakers are asked not to prohibit guns but to enact common-sense safeguards: muscular background checks, keeping guns away from domestic abusers, banning weapons designed for battlefields.

 

So far, Congress has refused. That dereliction is what is truly unimaginable."

 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/yes-president-trump-its-a-guns-situation/2017/11/06/f2e30d58-c330-11e7-aae0-cb18a8c29c65_story.html

[Andaman Al]

5 hours ago, Grouse said:

Yes, he was court martialled for assaulting his wife!

So let me get this correct. If you assault your wife you have some form of mental illness?..........Okay got it, i'm happy. Now shall we discuss Trump assaulting his wife - all incidentally in court papers and only withdrawn by Ivana after Trump gave some rather pressing financial issues for her consideration. So Trump assaulted his wife, can you agree with us that in applying the same standard , that he also has mental health issues?

[pegman]

10 hours ago, digger70 said:

Criminals have no business buying guns either,,,,,BUT THEY DO IT ILLEGALLY,,,,,This is not an insult to gun victims it's an statement to Morons  who believe it is.

Your right, the only true solution is getting rid of guns. 

[lannarebirth]

It would seem this shooter could have been the poster child for both criminality and mental health issues. Just the items that I've seen make reference to animal cruelty, strangling his spouse, cracking the skull of his step child, escape from a mental hospital, smuggling weapons on to an AF base to make good threats of violence against his commanding officers. There's probably more. I can't think of a better example of a person who provides for an opportunity to push for much more robust background checks.

 

It seems the US Air Force failed to put any of these occurences in the public record. I hope victims families can seek some form of redress from them.

Edited November 7, 2017 by lannarebirth

[naboo]

[FritsSikkink]

Let's see:

[F4UCorsair]

... Why do these idiots think we cannot see a false dichotomy?  

There is a gun problem AND a mental health problem.

 

Neither of these will be solved or even contemplated by the current admin.

 

Just as they haven't been by previous admins!! 

 

The pro gun lobby will resist ANY attempt to make it tougher to acquire guns, screening, mental health assessment, age restrictions, ANYTHING, on the grounds that it's a violation of civil liberties, but no mention of the civil liberties of victims, the right to live without being fearful they may be killed by some lunatic who shouldn't have had a gun.

 

Trump is not the first to say that a mass shooting is not a guns issue. I recall many saying that guns don't kill....people with guns do.

 

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[F4UCorsair]

So let me get this correct. If you assault your wife you have some form of mental illness?..........Okay got it, i'm happy. Now shall we discuss Trump assaulting his wife - all incidentally in court papers and only withdrawn by Ivana after Trump gave some rather pressing financial issues for her consideration. So Trump assaulted his wife, can you agree with us that in applying the same standard , that he also has mental health issues?

No conviction.....she admitted being a little 'robust' in her complaint... another way of saying 'I exaggerated'. 

 

No case!

 

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[Andaman Al]

44 minutes ago, F4UCorsair said:

No conviction.....she admitted being a little 'robust' in her complaint... another way of saying 'I exaggerated'. 

 

No case!

 

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Unbelievable response and it took 7 months. Where does it say she admitted being "Robust" in her complaint? I fear that is a blatant lie. Please provide a reference. I have read the case well and know of no such statement or reference. If you actually read into it you will see Donny is as guilty as hell. It is 100 times worse than Harvey Weinstein but we can rely on Trump supporters to defend him against treason, money laundering as well as statutory rape of a child. Come on then , where is the reference? Is it on Info Wars, Rush Limbaugh or Hannity?

[stevenl]

2 hours ago, F4UCorsair said:

Just as they haven't been by previous admins!! 

 

The pro gun lobby will resist ANY attempt to make it tougher to acquire guns, screening, mental health assessment, age restrictions, ANYTHING, on the grounds that it's a violation of civil liberties, but no mention of the civil liberties of victims, the right to live without being fearful they may be killed by some lunatic who shouldn't have had a gun.

 

Trump is not the first to say that a mass shooting is not a guns issue. I recall many saying that guns don't kill....people with guns do.

 

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Not true, the previous administration has attempted to do something.

[Jools]

Trump is an intellectual lightweight. The statements that come out of his mouth guarantee that we Americans will remain a laughingstock. Most Europeans think Americans are crazy and I am beginning to agree with them.

[Andaman Al]

22 minutes ago, FreddieRoyle said:

End of the day, grabbing guns because criminals have too many is like castrating yourself because your neighbor has too many kids.

No it's not. It worked in Australia.