TM.30 Confusion today at Cholburi (Jomtien) Immigrations

[wpcoe]

When I moved into my Jomtien condo last year I duly filed a TM.30 as owner-occupant.

 

I've read conflicting reports from folks who were told by Jomtien Immigrations that after you file a TM.30 you:

 

–  never need file another one unless you move to new address, even after being out of town

–  only need to file another one if you are gone for more than 14 days

–  need to file a new one every time you return from being out of town

 

I returned from overseas late Friday night after being gone 17 days, so thought maybe I better file again.  I completed a new TM.30 and when I got to the office, the line to the room on the left was out the front door. (!)  I saw folks holding plastic laminated cards with numbers, so I asked at the desk if I needed one to file a TM.30 and they said yes.

 

That, in itself, was interesting:  Why queue up if you have a number?  Why issue numbers if there’s a queue?

 

When my place in line was opposite the counter on the left of the lobby there were two IOs there, including Mr. Personality (you Jomtien veterans know who I mean...) so I politely asked if I needed to file a new TM.30 after explaining I already filed one for the same address before and had the receipt in my passport.  Both IOs said no, so I returned to the front desk to give back the number card and the girl looked puzzled, so I said I didn’t need to file a TM.30 since I had already filed one for the same address.  She looked at my passport & TM.30 receipt and said I *did* need to file a new one.

 

I got back in line and the IOs looked at me questioningly so I explained that apparently I *did* need to file a new TM.30.  They asked: “Same address?”  And I said yes, but I was gone for 2.5 weeks.  They said: “You don’t need to file again.  Who told you that you did?” So, I pointed to the girl at the front desk and Mr. Personality (quite friendly, in fact) said: “She no Officer.”

 

Not sure who to believe, but not wanting to spend an hour or so in line, I thanked the IOs, turned on my heel, and left.

 

What would YOU have done?

[jonclark]

Should have got it in writing 

[NamH2O]

I returned to Thailand after a month in Laos,I whent to Jomtien on the 27th October with completed TM30 by my landlord.I was told I must report every time I leave the country (I have rented my Apartment for 3 years)The officer checked my paperwork,filled in the bottom section of the TM30 and stapled it into the back of my passport.She gave me a A4 sheet of paper all it Thai,highlighted a section said give it to the landlord not your job come here he must do.I said ok as I got up to leave I asked if I need to report again as I am going to the UK for Christmas, she said just bring passport,report to room 10 not need paperwork.

[NamH2O]

Forgot to mention,I am on retirement extension,so I have provided with a TM30  for the past 3 years at renewal.I never do a 90 day report as I am never in Thailand long enough,I move between here and Laos.

[ubonjoe]

A grammar police post has been removed.

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[Dazinoz]

1 hour ago, NamH2O said:

She gave me a A4 sheet of paper all it Thai,highlighted a section said give it to the landlord not your job come here he must do.

I have been renting this house about 8 months. First TM30 done by owner. I went out of country for one week in July. When I came back I notified real estate agent as I have no direct contact with the owner that he needed to get my TM30 updated. He told me it was my job to update. I did a fair bit checking and everything said owner has to do. Had a few arguments with agent and sent him a few quotes of who should do. Anyhow my wife returned last month. They did her original and told me in no uncertain terms that owners obligations were finished and we had to do it from now on. He said he doesn’t care what visa agent, lawyer, TV post says it’s al bs. 

[Jools]

Yes, the "non-officers" have gigged me once, as well. When I wanted to convert my tourist visa to a Non-O, I was told by one of these college-age "experts" that I would have to go to Laos or Cambodia, because there were only fifteen days remaining on my TV and that would not be enough time for Bangkok to process it. I mentioned this incident in a conversation recently with an I-O officer and he told me that while this was the letter of the law, that 15 days was plenty of time to process the paperwork and that I should have asked to speak with an officer. I am not in the habit of arguing with these imperious toadies, but when it costs me time and money, it is just infuriating that there is so much variance in what is allowed and not allowed.

[Roger Lee]

 

After leaving the country of Thailand for even a day I always make sure a TM-30 is presented that day or the next of business day within 24 hours or due to a weekemd the next Monday.  Maybe too much but so far it works.

[JackThompson]

5 minutes ago, Roger Lee said:

After leaving the country of Thailand for even a day I always make sure a TM-30 is presented that day or the next of business day within 24 hours or due to a weekemd the next Monday.  Maybe too much but so far it works.

Ditto this.  I don't ask at the front-desk - I just go by what the people at the TM-30 desk tell me.  If/when they tell me not to come back under certain conditions, I shall happily adjust, accordingly. 

 

Given the long line reported, I would guess that the "hard and fast rules" are being adjusted to suit. 

[juice777]

When I moved into my Jomtien condo last year I duly filed a TM.30 as owner-occupant.
 
I've read conflicting reports from folks who were told by Jomtien Immigrations that after you file a TM.30 you:
 
–  never need file another one unless you move to new address, even after being out of town
–  only need to file another one if you are gone for more than 14 days
–  need to file a new one every time you return from being out of town
 
I returned from overseas late Friday night after being gone 17 days, so thought maybe I better file again.  I completed a new TM.30 and when I got to the office, the line to the room on the left was out the front door. (!)  I saw folks holding plastic laminated cards with numbers, so I asked at the desk if I needed one to file a TM.30 and they said yes.
 
That, in itself, was interesting:  Why queue up if you have a number?  Why issue numbers if there’s a queue?
 
When my place in line was opposite the counter on the left of the lobby there were two IOs there, including Mr. Personality (you Jomtien veterans know who I mean...) so I politely asked if I needed to file a new TM.30 after explaining I already filed one for the same address before and had the receipt in my passport.  Both IOs said no, so I returned to the front desk to give back the number card and the girl looked puzzled, so I said I didn’t need to file a TM.30 since I had already filed one for the same address.  She looked at my passport & TM.30 receipt and said I *did* need to file a new one.
 
I got back in line and the IOs looked at me questioningly so I explained that apparently I *did* need to file a new TM.30.  They asked: “Same address?”  And I said yes, but I was gone for 2.5 weeks.  They said: “You don’t need to file again.  Who told you that you did?” So, I pointed to the girl at the front desk and Mr. Personality (quite friendly, in fact) said: “She no Officer.”
 
Not sure who to believe, but not wanting to spend an hour or so in line, I thanked the IOs, turned on my heel, and left.
 
What would YOU have done?

"What would I have done"

probably banged my head against the wall a few tines. I live in Jomtien as well been here for a few years on Tourist visas. I think I have a fairly good grasp of the visas rules for the tourist visas anyway. I simply have no ideal if I am to do a new TM30 when I come back from my visa runs. I have given up trying to work it out. No one has ever said anything so if they do I will just play Dumb and see what happens.


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[juice777]

 
After leaving the country of Thailand for even a day I always make sure a TM-30 is presented that day or the next of business day within 24 hours or due to a weekemd the next Monday.  Maybe too much but so far it works.

Where do you live?

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[juice777]

What's the fine anyway if I have broken the rules?

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[wpcoe]

1 hour ago, juice777 said:

What's the fine anyway if I have broken the rules?

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You seem to be of a similar mind as I am now.  As I was walking away I decided pretty much to just roll with the punches if/when I am faced with an IO who informs me at some later time that I *should have* filed the TM.30 yesterday.

[juice777]

You seem to be of a similar mind as I am now.  As I was walking away I decided pretty much to just roll with the punches if/when I am faced with an IO who informs me at some later time that I *should have* filed the TM.30 yesterday.

Also the problem is for me Now I don't want to ask. But just on case a slap me with a fine.

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[tomacht8]

The TM30 make a lot of headache for many people who like to follow the thai law. But first: It depends which Immigration office is responsible in your area. In my case - southern islands - the chef IO told me that many many officials do not know about the law. We tried to report a longtime renter from our houses at our local police station. The police officer said he never see before this TM 30 reporting form. So i went with the ferry to Koh Samui. I talked to all IO's, standed in line on all counters.

Nobody could help. At the end i must wait for the Immigration chef. I meet him. Nice and clever guy. He gave me access to his personal computer registration program with passwort that i can register all our longtime renters by my self. We are sitting together for two hours drinking coffee and i help him to get rid off 

from the porn adds on his goverment computer. He gave me his privat phone number. He said if i have ever in the future problems with immigration in thailand i could call him. That is Thailand. TiT.  So my advice for expats is: make sure that you permanent adress is registered one time in the system. Normaly your adress is also registered on your yellow book, pink id or driving licence. If i went to europe i do not run again to my immigration Office. I write always on tm6 arrival card my permanent adress and make a foto.

That is enough. The immigration know my adress. In my case it is always the the same adress. 

If you travel out from thailand and return back to your permanent adress, which is registered in the system it is not necessary to report again. Normally you write this same adress on the TM6 Arrival card when you come back. I had never problems with the immigration about this TM30 file so far.

Edited November 6, 2017 by tomacht8

[craigt3365]

7 hours ago, juice777 said:

What's the fine anyway if I have broken the rules?

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It varies.  Depends on the position of the sun, moon, stars, etc. LOL.  I know somebody who just paid 5k.  Others, a bit less.

[ubonjoe]

9 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

It varies.  Depends on the position of the sun, moon, stars, etc. LOL.  I know somebody who just paid 5k.  Others, a bit less.

The max fine for not doing a TM30 form report is 2,000 baht for an individual. For a business it is 2,000 to 10,000 baht.

The 5000 baht fine is for not reporting a change of address. Jomtien was  incorrectly fining people for a while under that rule.

[stanleycoin]

A quick question, about the Jomtien office.

Do i need to report Tm 30 again ?

 

Did one this year,  had the same permanent address for years in pattaya.

i'm on a retirement ( 12 months extension of stay )

but im having two days in a hotel in Bangkok.

on return to my permanent  address,  do i need to report again ?.

Thanks Stan.

 

 

 

[R123]

I was involved in doing a change of address in Jomtien Immigration recently (the side entrance section) and the official there was telling a person ahead of me that a TM 30 is needed anytime someone leaves Thailand and returns; the report needs to be filed within 24 hours.

The inference being no matter if someone  leaves Thailand for just a day or less, the report still needs to be submitted within the 24 hour period.

No mention made if someone is simply  travelling around Thailand without leaving the country.

Note I am just relating what I witnessed first hand.

Edited November 7, 2017 by R123

[JackThompson]

3 hours ago, stanleycoin said:

A quick question, about the Jomtien office.

Do i need to report Tm 30 again ?

 

Did one this year,  had the same permanent address for years in pattaya.

i'm on a retirement ( 12 months extension of stay )

but im having two days in a hotel in Bangkok.

on return to my permanent  address,  do i need to report again ?.

Thanks Stan.

If the hotel reports you into the TM-30 system (likely) it might create a problem, depending on how Jomtien is applying the rules. 

 

I will be making an overnight trip to Bangkok in a couple weeks, and plan to report when I get back, so my advise would be to err on the safe-side.  Hopefully they tell us we never need to report under those circumstances, again - but you never know.

[juice777]

If the hotel reports you into the TM-30 system (likely) it might create a problem, depending on how Jomtien is applying the rules. 
 
I will be making an overnight trip to Bangkok in a couple weeks, and plan to report when I get back, so my advise would be to err on the safe-side.  Hopefully they tell us we never need to report under those circumstances, again - but you never know.

I wonder if that's the reason I've never been pulled. I haven't stayed in a hotel in Thailand for a few years. Only outside Thailand and I suspect that the same reason I've gone under the Radar.

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[MyFriend You]

I also filed myself and got the TM-30 stapled to back page of my pspt - asked  Miss cutie pie in the IO Office on the left  -  if I went to Vietnam and came back, do I need to file again, she said "If same address, no, change Condo, yes"  I said that was easy - she replied "Later will be on-line for owners, even easy more and smiled"  So I will test the water and not file again when I come back next trip.

[MyFriend You]

4 hours ago, stanleycoin said:

A quick question, about the Jomtien office.

Do i need to report Tm 30 again ?

 

Did one this year,  had the same permanent address for years in pattaya.

i'm on a retirement ( 12 months extension of stay )

but im having two days in a hotel in Bangkok.

on return to my permanent  address,  do i need to report again ?.

Thanks Stan.

 

 

 

I would say No...........

[juice777]

I also filed myself and got the TM-30 stapled to back page of my pspt - asked  Miss cutie pie in the IO Office on the left  -  if I went to Vietnam and came back, do I need to file again, she said "If same address, no, change Condo, yes"  I said that was easy - she replied "Later will be on-line for owners, even easy more and smiled"  So I will test the water and not file again when I come back next trip.

She she definitely is cute I might not be sure about TM 30 but I am sure about that.

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[JackThompson]

50 minutes ago, TunnelRat69 said:

I also filed myself and got the TM-30 stapled to back page of my pspt - asked  Miss cutie pie in the IO Office on the left  -  if I went to Vietnam and came back, do I need to file again, she said "If same address, no, change Condo, yes"  I said that was easy - she replied "Later will be on-line for owners, even easy more and smiled"  So I will test the water and not file again when I come back next trip.

Hmmm - I think we are chasing a moving target.  Every time I leave the country for a few days and return - last time just a few months ago - same condo - I am told I was correct to report and get a new TM-30 slip.  

 

Maybe it's my good looks and sparkling personality, and they just want to see me more often than you other guys.  Or, maybe it's the other way around, and they want to keep strict tabs on me.

[juice777]

The whole thing sounds just as confusing for immigration as it does for us.

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[Jools]

I will admit to not understanding the Thai attitude toward the law. Many apparently just ignore it without repercussions. Do police have no way of checking up on hotels and  landlords who do not report their tenants?? I can't imagine a similar disdain for the law in the USA or UK.

[craigt3365]

Just back from immigration.  Hardly a soul in there.  Did the visa extension in about 10 minutes.  Love low season!

[CRUNCHER]

Can someone tell me, as an owner of rented property, how I can check when my tenant leaves and re-enters Thailand?  If I have an obligation as the house master to inform immigration within 24 hours of his return, is there a legal obligation on my tenant to inform me in sufficient time for me to comply with the law?

 

This is even more problematic if I am not in Thailand myself at the time.

[Maestro]

2 hours ago, CRUNCHER said:

Can someone tell me, as an owner of rented property, how I can check when my tenant leaves and re-enters Thailand?  If I have an obligation as the house master to inform immigration within 24 hours of his return, is there a legal obligation on my tenant to inform me in sufficient time for me to comply with the law?

 

This is even more problematic if I am not in Thailand myself at the time.

 

For a rented apartment section 4 of the Immigration Act defines the House-master as the chief possessor of the residence in his capacity as tenant.

 

Section 38 makes it the duty of the house-master, owner or possessor to submit the notification of the arrival of a foreigner at the residence (TM.30)

 

Most immigration offices accept the notification from the tenant, who is the house-master and possessor as per section 38 rolled into one, or the owner as per section 38. When the tenant submits the TM.30, many immigration offices want also copies of the house registration book and ID card of the owner, signed by the owner.

 

When neither the tenant (house-master/possessor) nor the owner as per section 38 submit the notification in time, some immigration offices fine both the tenant and the owner 800 Baht each and collect both fines from the tenant when he applies for an extension of stay or submits a notification of staying in Thailand longer than 90 days.

 

Please note that for the purpose of implementation of the Immigration Act, when the owner rents out a residence (house, apartment, condominium unit, etc) he remains the owner but is no longer the possessor, as possession passes on to the tenant, and therefore the owner is not and cannot act as the housemaster as defined in section 4 of the Immigration Act.

 

In your case, you can tell the tenants that they are responsible for the timely submission of the form TM.30 and give the tenants whatever documents they need from you to satisfy immigration's requirements. Ideally, this responsibility of the tenant should be written into the rental contract to avoid any misunderstanding.