Trump praises Saudi rulers after mass arrests for corruption

[Morch]

20 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 You mean like ANOTHER dictator who took power under the guise of attacking corruption, and then pretty clearly just re-directed the corruption from the other side more to their side???   That dictator seems to get pretty good public approval ratings in the polls, at least, the ones that they regularly announce...

 

That could serve as example. But people sometimes place higher value (even if temporarily) on other issues, such as stability, or (more relevant to Saudi Arabia) a loosening of social norms and regulations. Guess it comes down to how leaders handle their people, and whether they deliver. If the guy manages to successfully pull off some of the reforms suggested, then excesses would be overlooked.

[Morch]

34 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

This is the kind of thing that comes back to bite you when the going gets tough. It was an objectively stupid move. The obvious stance was for him to adopt at least a pretense of austerity for himself. It speaks to his arrogance and impulsiveness.  And of course the source of money is opaque. The Saudi Royals do not release any info about how money gets distributed. To even question it is to invite big trouble for oneself. How much more opaque could it be?

 

I am not suggesting that it was a particularly wise decision, just that it might not carry as much effect domestically as you seem to imagine. As for your other minute point, not getting if you're making an allegation that it was state money or opining that he ought to have provided full disclosure. Whether or not the funds were private, I have no idea (and not making any assertions), but doubt that such deals (not just by Saudi buyers) normally come under full public review.

Edited November 9, 2017 by Morch

[ilostmypassword]

35 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

I am not suggesting that it was a particularly wise decision, just that it might not carry as much effect domestically as you seem to imagine. As for your other minute point, not getting if you're making an allegation that it was state money or opining that he ought to have provided full disclosure. Whether or not the funds were private, I have no idea (and not making any assertions), but doubt that such deals (not just by Saudi buyers) normally come under full public review.

As I wrote: "This is the kind of thing that comes back to bite you when the going gets tough. It was an objectively stupid move. The obvious stance was for him to adopt at least a pretense of austerity for himself. It speaks to his arrogance and impulsiveness."

And this again is not a case of whether such "purchases come under full public review." Such purchases by the royals never come under any kind of public review at all.   It was a so-called private purchase made with money that the Saudi Royals allocate to themselves.. How much that money is and how it is allocated is a jealously guarded secret in Saudi Arabia. And if anti-corruption fervor grows, it may not stop with just the convenient targets chosen by the Crown Prince.

"Trump obviously missed the story last year that M.B.S. impulsively bought a yacht while on vacation in the south of France — it just caught his fancy in the harbor — from its Russian owner for $550 million...I raise this point because when you’re making as many radical changes at once, and making as many enemies at once, as M.B.S. is, your robes need to be very clean. People have to believe that you mean what you say and that you have no hidden agendas, because change is going to be painful."

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/07/opinion/saudi-prince-reform-coup.html

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

13 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

"Trump obviously missed the story last year that M.B.S. impulsively bought a yacht while on vacation in the south of France — it just caught his fancy in the harbor — from its Russian owner for $550 million...I raise this point because when you’re making as many radical changes at once, and making as many enemies at once, as M.B.S. is, your robes need to be very clean. People have to believe that you mean what you say and that you have no hidden agendas, because change is going to be painful."

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/07/opinion/saudi-prince-reform-coup.html

 

Trump may have missed the "story" but I don't think he missed the larger point at all. The FAKE one would probably very much like to run his presidency the same way the Saudis run their government -- with little or no oversight, disclosure or dissent at all. In other words, the same way Trump has tried to run his private companies and avoided disclosing his personal federal tax returns.

 

And, the fact that the Saudi prince bought his yacht from a rich Russian probably only earns the prince extra points in the FAKE one's estimation. After all, anything that's good for Russia and rich Russians is A-OK with the FAKE one.

Edited November 9, 2017 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Morch]

21 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

As I wrote: "This is the kind of thing that comes back to bite you when the going gets tough. It was an objectively stupid move. The obvious stance was for him to adopt at least a pretense of austerity for himself. It speaks to his arrogance and impulsiveness."

And this again is not a case of whether such "purchases come under full public review." Such purchases by the royals never come under any kind of public review at all.   It was a so-called private purchase made with money that the Saudi Royals allocate to themselves.. How much that money is and how it is allocated is a jealously guarded secret in Saudi Arabia. And if anti-corruption fervor grows, it may not stop with just the convenient targets chosen by the Crown Prince.

"Trump obviously missed the story last year that M.B.S. impulsively bought a yacht while on vacation in the south of France — it just caught his fancy in the harbor — from its Russian owner for $550 million...I raise this point because when you’re making as many radical changes at once, and making as many enemies at once, as M.B.S. is, your robes need to be very clean. People have to believe that you mean what you say and that you have no hidden agendas, because change is going to be painful."

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/07/opinion/saudi-prince-reform-coup.html

 

For something of this sort to come back and bite him, there would have to be a more open Saudi society and political culture. So far, it doesn't seem his suggested reforms go as far as that, or that he ignores the dangers of public criticism. If anything, he is strengthening his hold on power.

 

Regarding the yacht story obsession - I will clarify, that I don't think all such purchases, whether by Saudi princes, Russian oligarch or American billionaires are normally open for public scrutiny. As in, even if it was a poor decision (we agree on this point), it wasn't, by itself, very different than other such transactions.

 

As for the article linked, it doesn't suggest what sort of opposition is to be taken note of, and overall - doesn't even paint a one-sided picture of the Crown Prince as you repeatedly try to present. In parts, it's even sympathetic.....