Visa for British child

[champair79]

Hi all,

 

I have recently applied for a British passport for my child (3 years old) at the Trendy building in BKK although he will stay in Thailand with his mum for the next few months as I work in the UK.

 

I'd like to take him to the UK for a holiday and to meet my parents next year upon which he'll return to Thailand to stay with his mum and start school. Presumably as a British citizen, he's need a visa to come and stay with her again? I presume I'd have to apply for a Non-immigrant O visa for him at the Thai Embassy in London? Or would an Education visa be more appropriate if he's starting school?

 

What's the procedure for extending stays in the Kingdom for a child this young?

 

Also to add, my girlfriend (his Mum) is stateless (she has a white ID). Is this likely to cause any issues with the embassy in London when I apply for the visa? Is there a policy where they can grant him effectively PR whilst he's so young or would his Mum have to report his whereabouts every 90 days regardless?

 

Thanks for your help. As I say, this is a few months away but I'm trying to think ahead. I've heard children can just overstay and any fines get waived but I'd like to do things by the book if possible.

 

As for my girlfriend being stateless and what her options are, I'll save that for a different topic!

 

Regards,

Champ

[ubonjoe]

Since you son's mother is stateless that means he is stateless until you establish his UK citizenship by getting his passport.

There is no basis for him to get a non-o visa unless you have an extension of stay or a visa for here.

He is likely to young to get a non-ed visa and extension of stay based upon attending school.

Children under the age of 15 are not fined for an overstay.

This is such an unusual case it is hard for me to come up with many choices until his mother is granted Thai nationality.

[sanemax]

They do have a new policy in Thailand to end statelessness and all Children who were born in Thailand, have no documents from other Countries and have been to School in Thailand, will get Thai citizenship and Thai I.D.

   That was the announcement earlier this year, I do not know how that is progressing .

Getting you Son UK citizenship and taking out the Country may stop him from getting Thai citizenship in the future 

[champair79]

He is already a British citizen although he was born stateless. I had to apply for British citizenship  first as he wasn't entitled to it automatically as I was British by descent. I am expecting the passport to arrive later this week or next week assuming HMPO find no issues.

 

I live in the UK and his mother is stuck here until she can acquire Thai nationality. Basically it's a big PITA but I have to do the best I can. I want him to live with his mum as I am unable to take care of him in the UK (I work completely random hours) but the best solution I can see in the short term is for him to visit the UK for holidays.

 

Are you saying he could just enter Thailand on a tourist visa exemption with me accompanying him and then overstay while I return back to the UK?

 

Champ

[champair79]

Sorry sanemax, you posted as I was replying to the post above :-).

 

Yes I'm aware of that although I've already got him British citizenship. Given a choice, I'd rather have British over Thai any day (no offence). The issue is him staying with him mum. Plus, Thai citizenship isn't guaranteed. You might find the next government changes their mind!

 

Do the Thai immigration big guns have any powers to make exceptions on visas? Is this something I could escalate or are they likely to kick me into touch?

 

Champ

[sanemax]

2 minutes ago, champair79 said:

 

Yes I'm aware of that although I've already got him British citizenship. Given a choice, I'd rather have British over Thai any day (no offence). The issue is him staying with him mum. Plus, Thai citizenship isn't guaranteed. You might find the next government changes their mind!

 

 

As soon as you take him out from Thailand though, he will lose his legal right to remain in Thailand indefinitely , as stateless people can not be deported or sent anywhere .

    He could also end up in 12 years time on a 12 year overstay and face deportation back to the UK 

[champair79]

Technically he's not stateless anymore. Passport in hand or not. He's registered as a British citizen and I have the citizenship certificate.

 

I just feel really depressed about the whole situation. I want him to experience different cultures but want him to see me and his mum regularly. Aside from trying to sort my girlfriend's nationality, are there no other options apart from keeping him in Thailand? Obviously it wouldn't be feasible for me to fly over and do visa runs with him!

 

Champ

[ubonjoe]

8 minutes ago, champair79 said:

I live in the UK and his mother is stuck here until she can acquire Thai nationality. Basically it's a big PITA but I have to do the best I can. I want him to live with his mum as I am unable to take care of him in the UK (I work completely random hours) but the best solution I can see in the short term is for him to visit the UK for holidays.

 

Are you saying he could just enter Thailand on a tourist visa exemption with me accompanying him and then overstay while I return back to the UK?

If you were married to his mother there might be a path for her to get a visa for the UK with a travel document issued by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs as a stateless person. See: http://www.mfa.go.th/main/en/services/4909/15376-ISSUANCE-OF-TRAVEL-DOCUMENT-FOR-ALIENS-(TD).html

He could stay on an overstay until things get sorted out. No fine on departure but he would get a overstay stamp.

 

[sanemax]

1 minute ago, ubonjoe said:

If you were married to his mother there might be a path for her to get a visa for the UK with a travel document issued by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs as a stateless person. S

Although I dont think that its possible for stateless people to officially get married

[ubonjoe]

13 minutes ago, sanemax said:

He could also end up in 12 years time on a 12 year overstay and face deportation back to the UK 

That would not happen until he is 18 years old at this time (see the overstay banning rules).

Anyway I think things will be sorted out by then.

[champair79]

The issue is getting married. I think as a stateless person she's not allowed to get married.

 

We went to the MFA at Chaeng Wattana last week. They weren't prepared to issue the TD there at the time but said we needed to speak to the Ministry of Interior (I think? My gf has the Thai name and phone number) about her legality to marry.

 

If we are able to marry, they said they'd grant a pass out of the country but she wouldn't be able to return unless she acquired citizenship from another country. 

 

Champ

[sanemax]

23 minutes ago, champair79 said:

 

BTW, which documents did you need for your Son to get a UK PP ?

[champair79]

Hi Sanemax,

 

Off the top of my head it was:

 

Birth certificate and translation

Certificate of citizenship

Copy of my passport

Copy of my gf's ID

my birth certificate

2 photos

The application form

Proof of address in Thailand

 

I'm pretty sure I needn't have supplied my birth certificate as this was all checked when they issued my son with his citizenship. Either HMPO don't talk to the Home Office or the Thai gentleman at VFS was just being over-cautious!

 

Champ

[ubonjoe]

3 minutes ago, champair79 said:

The issue is getting married. I think as a stateless person she's not allowed to get married.

 

We went to the MFA at Chaeng Wattana last week. They weren't prepared to issue the TD there at the time but said we needed to speak to the Ministry of Interior (I think? My gf has the Thai name and phone number) about her legality to marry.

 

If we are able to marry, they said they'd grant a pass out of the country but she wouldn't be able to return unless she acquired citizenship from another country. 

 

Champ

If she is registered as stateless person she may be able to register a marriage now. You need to check with the Amphoe about it.

I think the UK might issue her a travel document if she has a settlement visa or indefinite leave to remain. Most countries have rules that allow them to do it for stateless people.

[champair79]

Ok ubonjoe we'll check with the Amphoe. The MFA also said to check with the UK embassy in BKK about marrying and if she could enter the UK. At the moment it seems like this is our only hope.

 

If anyone has anything further to add, I'd be most grateful. I really appreciate the replies so far. It's been a very distressing time for me over the last few years. It's such a relief when I can spend time with my gf and my son and not worry about passports and visas! I'm always looking at the bigger picture and all this worries me arguably more than my gf who just seems to live life day by day. Either it's cultural or she's just been living with her situation so long that she's gone past worrying.

 

Champ

[offset]

3 hours ago, champair79 said:

Hi Sanemax,

 

Off the top of my head it was:

 

Birth certificate and translation

Certificate of citizenship

Copy of my passport

Copy of my gf's ID

my birth certificate

2 photos

The application form

Proof of address in Thailand

 

I'm pretty sure I needn't have supplied my birth certificate as this was all checked when they issued my son with his citizenship. Either HMPO don't talk to the Home Office or the Thai gentleman at VFS was just being over-cautious!

 

Champ

Slightly of topic but I am trying to apply for a British passport for my son. After contacting the passport advice service in the UK it seems like you might need to give a lot more info than you seemed to have given. I hope I am wrong and you get your son his passport OK

[sanemax]

2 minutes ago, offset said:

Slightly of topic but I am trying to apply for a British passport for my son. After contacting the passport advice service in the UK it seems like you might need to give a lot more info than you seemed to have given. I hope I am wrong and you get your son his passport OK

I have also contacting them with personal E-mails

All the things listed as being necessary on the UK Gov website and not always necessary, if you give an explanation as to why you cannot produce them .

  Mother Birth certificate, for example, if you explain that She doesnt have one, they cam waive that requirement

[champair79]

If you read the guidance material, there's a table of requirements. As I said earlier, a lot of mine should've been satisfied when applying for his citizenship whereas children who've gained citizenship automatically through 'descent' will probably have to prove stuff. I hope I'm right anyway. I'll let you know shortly when I hear about the passport.

 

Back on topic, if anyone has anything to add about visas etc, I'd be most grateful. 

 

Thanks,

Champ

[brewsterbudgen]

I have also contacting them with personal E-mails
All the things listed as being necessary on the UK Gov website and not always necessary, if you give an explanation as to why you cannot produce them .
  Mother Birth certificate, for example, if you explain that She doesnt have one, they cam waive that requirement

My wife is Laotian and doesn't have a birth certificate, but I was still able to get our 1 year-old a UK passport. I am also British by descent so there could have been an issue, but my registration as British 8 years after my birth was sufficient. I didn't get him citizenship first; just went straight for the passport.

This is an interesting thread. I hope the OP keeps it updated.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[champair79]

Got an email today saying his passport is ready to collect from the Trendy building. One hurdle cleared! He will be staying in Thailand in order to avoid visa  issues until I make some more progress with my girlfriend and her statelessness. I'll put another post up with details of that later as a separate topic.

 

Champ

[sanemax]

Just now, champair79 said:

Got an email today saying his passport is ready to collect from the Trendy building. One hurdle cleared! He will be staying in Thailand in order to avoid visa  issues until I make some more progress with my girlfriend and her statelessness. I'll put another post up with details of that later as a separate topic.

 

Champ

I do recall someone posted on TV about their stateless Gf and they went to the British embassy and explained that She was in danger if She went back to Myanmar (or something) and they gave her a UK Visa

[BritTim]

2 hours ago, sanemax said:

I do recall someone posted on TV about their stateless Gf and they went to the British embassy and explained that She was in danger if She went back to Myanmar (or something) and they gave her a UK Visa

This webpage has a good introduction to refugee or humanitarian protection visas for the UK: https://www.gov.uk/settlement-refugee-or-humanitarian-protection. Those who qualify have a very good chance of having their application granted.

[champair79]

Do you think if I played the ‘human rights’ card as in she has a right to be with me and our son that may work?

 

My gf is Thai and as far as she’s aware has lived in Thailand all her life. She’s certainly not in any danger to her life (she has the white ID card) and is from Isaan. The issue is ensuring we can be together as a family.

 

Thanks BritTim.

 

champ

[BritTim]

51 minutes ago, champair79 said:

Do you think if I played the ‘human rights’ card as in she has a right to be with me and our son that may work?

If you can prove that you are financially secure, and they will not become a financial burden to the UK, I think you would have a decent chance.

[BritTim]

53 minutes ago, champair79 said:

My gf is Thai and as far as she’s aware has lived in Thailand all her life. She’s certainly not in any danger to her life (she has the white ID card) and is from Isaan.

I think, in due time, people like your GF will likely receive Thai citizenship. According to the Thai 2008 Nationality Act, those born in Thailand should usually be entitled to it under the principle of jus soli. Depending on your GF's birth date, she may have been prevented from receiving Thai nationality at the time under the terms of the 1976 Nationality Law. However, the 2008 law (see Section 2) allows those denied Thai nationality at the time to apply anew for citizenship. It could be worthwhile to check with a good lawyer to see what her options might be.

 

If, in the future, you marry, her Thai nationality would not conflict with her receiving UK citizenship.

[champair79]

I suppose this is the issue I face - how long? The Thai’s never give a definitive answer which makes it very hard to plan family life. The issue my gf has is that she doesn’t have any blood relations. She was brought up by an ‘adopted’ family although she only realised this when she had a DNA test a few years ago. Being Thai and out in the sticks, there was no paperwork done to make it official. Whether her parents were Thai or illegals is anyone’s guess.

 

champ

[Mattd]

@champair79 As a matter of interest, I'm assuming that your son was born in Thailand, did you have any issues getting a Thai birth certificate for him, considering your partner's situation citizenship, or lack of, wise?

This birth certificate will be critical when the time comes for him to leave Thailand on his newly acquired British passport, congratulations on that part BTW!

[sanemax]

1 minute ago, Mattd said:

@champair79 As a matter of interest, I'm assuming that your son was born in Thailand, did you have any issues getting a Thai birth certificate for him, considering your partner's situation citizenship, or lack of, wise?

This birth certificate will be critical when the time comes for him to leave Thailand on his newly acquired British passport, congratulations on that part BTW!

Birth certificates are given to all Children born in Thailand, regardless of where the Parents come from .

    If the Child isnt Thai , its written on the B/C "Non Thai Citizen" .

Not sure whether having the B/C when leaving Thailand will be that important , as you have to obtain a Court order allowing him/her to leave

[Mattd]

7 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Birth certificates are given to all Children born in Thailand, regardless of where the Parents come from .

    If the Child isnt Thai , its written on the B/C "Non Thai Citizen" .

Not sure whether having the B/C when leaving Thailand will be that important , as you have to obtain a Court order allowing him/her to leave

I understand that part, I was just wondering if the fact that the OP's partner is technically stateless had any effect on the issuing of the birth certificate.

 

I didn't realise that a court order would be needed to allow the child to leave, my understanding that a child born to non Thai parents and holding a foreign passport needed to show the Thai BC upon departure, to prove that the child was born in Thailand, hence why there is no record of entry in the immigration system or passport.

Edited November 10, 2017 by Mattd

[ubonjoe]

5 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Not sure whether having the B/C when leaving Thailand will be that important , as you have to obtain a Court order allowing him/her to leave

Why?

He has a UK passport and a birth certificate to show on departure from the country. At the most consent from his child's mother would be needed.