10 hours ago, webfact said:

Participants would wear black during the protest and read out their statements in Bangkok. 

This time they won't wear yellow!

"Manoon joined the protests in Bangkok against Yingluck’s government that eventually led to the military takeover after protest leaders said getting rid of her would lead to higher rubber prices."

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-05-21/happiness-eludes-thailand-s-divided-regions-as-farmers-struggle

 

8 hours ago, AGareth2 said:

especially as a farmer

 

With a bit of luck and lots of elbow grease farmers can, and do, make a decent living (world wide) from the land - assuming that the weather plays in their favour. 

 

They need to have a keen eye and be able to spot changing trends before it's too late to jump ship and grow something different. 

 

As others have pointed out, many farmers (to name just one segment of the economy) here tend to copy what is successful for their neighbours, which in turn is copied by more neighbouring farmers until there is an over supply. 

 

Another example was the booming demand for limes last year (or was it the year before?). Loads of people in my little village went out and bought cement rings, PVC piping, lime trees, etc. in the hope of striking it rich. The price of limes dropped again and some farmers have completely cleared all the cement rings, trees, etc. 

 

Very few try to be original, different or risk takers. The family-in-law are growing 2 rai of bananas (some kind of special bananas not widely grown in Thailand). My better half is growing strawberries and recently started experimenting with raspberries. Something "different". 

 

Oddly enough they were the first ones in our area to start growing rubber trees years and years ago. Back then, the villagers all laughed at them saying that the trees wouldn't grow, they wouldn't make money, etc. Guess what? A little time later, small rubber plantations started springing up all around our place. 

 

As mentioned before, the family has already started looking at alternative crops to grow... they're usually one step ahead of the crowd.

 

 

 

Like the idea to mix in rubber in asphalt on new roads... it would just be a little more expensive and just a little less durability..............................
The price was great before with high demands on the world market but now it's apparently even cheaper to make tires out of synthetic rubber (oil based)!!!

10 million Farmers growing rice...price will fall.

10 million Rubber tree growers....price will fall.

10 million Eucalyptus tree growers...price will fall.

and the latest they are jumping on due to Chinese demand....10 million Durian tree growers....and I guess the ....price will fall.

 

10 million people banging there heads off a brick wall.....no change - they keep banging.

Chatchai  take responsibility for the mistake ?

 

That's like asking the rubber farmers who supported Suthep and got 

Chatchai his high salary job in the first place to take responsibility for assisting in the downfall of democracy.

 

Methinks they doth protest too much.

Would be interesting to see a bunch of these guys locked up for taking to the streets. 

 

My guess is there will be a huge road blockade on highway 4.

 

The junta can't afford to have protests, and can't afford to lock up one of their key support groups either.

A troll post has been removed as well as the replies. 

21 hours ago, seajae said:

typical thai farmers, they decide what they want to grow then when the prices dont appeal to them they whinge at the govt to pay them more than what their product is worth on the world market. Has nothing to do with the govt as to what the prices are, farmers need to realize the only people responsible are themselves and stop trying to make everyone subsidize their choices.

I am not sure of the time but I think three years ago there were record prices for rubber and the Government was paying people to plant the supplied rubber tree saplings and an amount each year to maintain them.   I said at the time that the use of good agricultural land converted to rubber was not a good idea. 

Are there not a 1000 KG in a ton... so 5 x 1000 = 5000 
Are you saying the rice mills make a killing or are you saying something else.. not sure what you mean.
 
As for the Yen and dollar higher, so what.. these contracts were made before and the prices calculated based on the dollar and yen then. They make sure they cover the funds before. Would you be so fanatic if the dollar / yen went lower and farmers got less ?
 
Empathy yes, but not for people with a failing businessmodel that are unwilling to change. If a business is failing year after year why should the taxpayer fund it. I have all the empathy in the world to help people change and educate them, just not for supporting a failing business year in year out. I am the kinda guy that advocates support to change people and their business so they can stand on their on two feet instead of living on handouts. 

It's interesting people workings a salaried job are offered minimum wage and benefits.

Also professionals who have status in society are allowed to set high minimum rates and high barriers to entry, but farmers are just supposed to be left completely at mercy of conglomerates or commodity traders ?

After countries enter th WTO small farmers are often thrown under the bus.

Personally I think that delivering more of the profit to the farmer rather than trader will spread the wealth.

It's not either/or, but some protection of farmers incomes is a good thing in general.

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

 

With a bit of luck and lots of elbow grease farmers can, and do, make a decent living (world wide) from the land - assuming that the weather plays in their favour. 

 

They need to have a keen eye and be able to spot changing trends before it's too late to jump ship and grow something different. 

 

As others have pointed out, many farmers (to name just one segment of the economy) here tend to copy what is successful for their neighbours, which in turn is copied by more neighbouring farmers until there is an over supply. 

 

Another example was the booming demand for limes last year (or was it the year before?). Loads of people in my little village went out and bought cement rings, PVC piping, lime trees, etc. in the hope of striking it rich. The price of limes dropped again and some farmers have completely cleared all the cement rings, trees, etc. 

 

Very few try to be original, different or risk takers. The family-in-law are growing 2 rai of bananas (some kind of special bananas not widely grown in Thailand). My better half is growing strawberries and recently started experimenting with raspberries. Something "different". 

 

Oddly enough they were the first ones in our area to start growing rubber trees years and years ago. Back then, the villagers all laughed at them saying that the trees wouldn't grow, they wouldn't make money, etc. Guess what? A little time later, small rubber plantations started springing up all around our place. 

 

As mentioned before, the family has already started looking at alternative crops to grow... they're usually one step ahead of the crowd.

 

 

 

Saw the same thing happened with bananas in Taiwan. Typhoons and a banana virus wiped out local stock causing remaining farmers to make an absolute killing.

 

So within two years there was a massive boom in banana plantations and the price from something like 50 BAHT a banana to 5 BAHT a banana , many didn't even bother to harvest.

 

Diversification is good.

 

Here's a tip for some folks in Thailand...cactus nurseries can do well.

 

Also fresh vegetable farms near cities tends to be very stable business.

 

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

 

 

 

On 10/11/2017 at 7:46 AM, Bob12345 said:

For things like what?

 

Maybe invest a bit in your own sector and start doing research to find new applications for your product instead of sitting in the shade crying till the government solves your problems.

"For things like what"

How about rubber bullets, Junta might like to invest in.

On 10/11/2017 at 7:46 AM, Bob12345 said:

For things like what?

 

Maybe invest a bit in your own sector and start doing research to find new applications for your product instead of sitting in the shade crying till the government solves your problems.

"For things like what"

How about rubber bullets, Junta might like to invest in.

Sorry repeat post.

Edited November 11, 20178 yr by Oziex1
Double post

Just sit tight, I'm sure the price will bounce back. 

 

Oh dear. 

21 hours ago, PAIBKK said:

I don't know when I read it. It might be several years ago. In that article it was saying that the quality of Thai rubber was way below the worldwide minimum standards and Thai rubber was mixed up with other substances to gain more profit on it. The Thai were selling it for a price above high quality rubber. The demand on Thai rubber went down due to this Thai scam !!! 

 

I think the rubber farmers have to blame themselves for this situation... But you know Thai, it's never their fault, always blame it on others...

Major tyremakers threaten to stop buying rubber from Thai farmers because of low quality from sulphuric acid added that reduces flexibility.

Major tyremakers have threatened to stop buying rubber from Thai farmers because of low quality, senior industry officials say. 

 

The Post 2016

21 hours ago, thaiguzzi said:

Rubbish!

Nope,

 

SULFURIC ACID ADDED TO RUBBER REDUCES QUALITY

Farmers in the North and the Northeast normally put a drop of sulphuric acid in the rubber latex to make it coagulate more quickly before selling it as cup lumps to rubber factories. 

1 hour ago, taipeir said:

It's interesting people workings a salaried job are offered minimum wage and benefits.

Also professionals who have status in society are allowed to set high minimum rates and high barriers to entry, but farmers are just supposed to be left completely at mercy of conglomerates or commodity traders ?

After countries enter th WTO small farmers are often thrown under the bus.

Personally I think that delivering more of the profit to the farmer rather than trader will spread the wealth.

It's not either/or, but some protection of farmers incomes is a good thing in general.

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk
 

For witch they pay premiums and taxes, without those no benefits. Also if a company fails there is no assistance from governments but the farmers do get assistance all the time still not fair. I am talking about normal salaried workers not high professionals. 

 

Personally I think farmers always moan no matter what country they live in. If they want higher prices form a cooperative to make demands (if they don't who is there to blame for that). Farmers like everyone else will  have to adapt to changing circumstances. I am all for helping people to change loans or subsidies for going from one crop to an other, and or education many farmers make nice money by planting a expensive strain of rice and marketing it direct to people cutting out the middle man. But just sitting on your back and protesting every time the prices don't go your way (rice or rubber or whatever) is just not right. 

2 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

Nope,

 

SULFURIC ACID ADDED TO RUBBER REDUCES QUALITY

Farmers in the North and the Northeast normally put a drop of sulphuric acid in the rubber latex to make it coagulate more quickly before selling it as cup lumps to rubber factories. 

This is an issue (related primarily to northern rubber farmers), perhaps subjected to more rainfall than in the South.

 

To be fair Prayut recognized the issue in September 2016:

"Prime Minister Prayut Chan-o-cha gave a mandate yesterday for related agencies to work out strategic plans to upgrade the quality of block rubber and measures to sway farmers from putting sulphuric acid in the latex"

 

Also to be fair, Prayut only mandated agencies for upgrade plans and did not mandate (ie., by law) for farmers to comply.

http://www.therubbereconomist.com/News/Entries/2016/9/5_Prayut_orders_rubber_upgrade_in_Thailand.html

 

Prayut treads very carefully with rubber farmers, just like any POLITICIAN would.

23 hours ago, PAIBKK said:

I don't know when I read it. It might be several years ago. In that article it was saying that the quality of Thai rubber was way below the worldwide minimum standards and Thai rubber was mixed up with other substances to gain more profit on it. The Thai were selling it for a price above high quality rubber. The demand on Thai rubber went down due to this Thai scam !!! 

 

I think the rubber farmers have to blame themselves for this situation... But you know Thai, it's never their fault, always blame it on others...

Rubbish 2.0.

2 hours ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

Nope,

 

SULFURIC ACID ADDED TO RUBBER REDUCES QUALITY

Farmers in the North and the Northeast normally put a drop of sulphuric acid in the rubber latex to make it coagulate more quickly before selling it as cup lumps to rubber factories. 

False news. Well, sorta.

Formic acid is used to coagulate on 95% of plantations. It is more expensive and coagulates slower.

Sulphuric acid is used i'd say on less than 5% of plantations, it is cheaper and coagulates much quicker. It is also bad for the health of the tree long term.

Both the above is for making cup lump rubber. Liquid latex and sheet is a different process again.

Any owner/operator or long term professional tapper who looks after their trees wants nothing to do with SA.

On 11/10/2017 at 7:48 AM, Cadbury said:

I've got a good idea. Why doesn't the government buy all the rubber and stockpile it and wait until the price goes up then flog it off and make a killing. Proven formula for success.

And the rubber won't even get bad as rice does over time, so they can store it till Taksin's grandson is in power, or the 99th military government... 

On 11/10/2017 at 8:46 AM, Bob12345 said:

For things like what?

 

Maybe invest a bit in your own sector and start doing research to find new applications for your product instead of sitting in the shade crying till the government solves your problems.

Prayut had proposed to use it in road surfacing composition. Which is an expensive application they can't afford.

6 minutes ago, StayinThailand2much said:

And the rubber won't even get bad as rice does over time, so they can store it till Taksin's grandson is in power, or the 99th military government... 

Yes it does deteriorate during storage just like rice.

http://www.unaflex.com/sheet_rubber/storage.html

 

3 hours ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

Major tyremakers threaten to stop buying rubber from Thai farmers because of low quality from sulphuric acid added that reduces flexibility.

Major tyremakers have threatened to stop buying rubber from Thai farmers because of low quality, senior industry officials say. 

 

The Post 2016

Yes, that's because those foreigners cannot appreciate the outstanding world-class quality of Thai rubber, which is, and always will be, the best in the world! The farmers need to petition the government to go against those foreigners... 

 

(Thai rubber, after all, is as supreme in the world as the Thai educational system, which Thailand's horticulture and farming specialists graduated from.)

 

(Remark: Beware, satire!)

Edited November 11, 20178 yr by StayinThailand2much

13 minutes ago, coulson said:

Prayut had proposed to use it in road surfacing composition. Which is an expensive application they can't afford.

The government could also use it to make checks if the revenue department fails to collect enough tax.

10 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

The government could also use it to make checks if the revenue department fails to collect enough tax.

Or perhaps condoms (I know, low quality...) for the teens in Esarn, as some of them like to use 7-Eleven bags instead of the expensive condoms. 

 

(Remark: Beware, satire!)

Edited November 11, 20178 yr by StayinThailand2much

Something about the rubber industry just don’t make sense. Thailand is the largest producer of natural rubber and yet we are not the largest manufacturer of natural rubber products like medical and health products like gloves and also for auto and mechanical use. That accolade goes to Malaysia who over the decade have decrease rubber plantations.  Thailand did just the opposite and only depends on exporting natural rubber for making tires. Needless to say that Thailand has structural problem and need to sort this out with good policies and incentives to attract the manufacturers and investors. 

1 hour ago, thaiguzzi said:

False news. Well, sorta.

Formic acid is used to coagulate on 95% of plantations. It is more expensive and coagulates slower.

Sulphuric acid is used i'd say on less than 5% of plantations, it is cheaper and coagulates much quicker. It is also bad for the health of the tree long term.

Both the above is for making cup lump rubber. Liquid latex and sheet is a different process again.

Any owner/operator or long term professional tapper who looks after their trees wants nothing to do with SA.

Strange that you know better as those investigating the problem who reported it in the BKK post Tyremakers bash Thai rubber just google for that phrase.

 

Where do you get your numbers from your thumb or do you have something to back them up with ? I wonder if there was no problem why it would be reported as this. I have no numbers just the report from the BKK post so can't really counter them.

 

As for your remark that long term professional tappers would not want anything to do with SA.. you might be right but anyone wanting to make a quick buck might think different. Unfortunately professional are often hard to find in this country. 

1 hour ago, Eric Loh said:

Needless to say that Thailand has structural problem

It may be less than a structural problem than flawed economic principles. Some problems I see:

 

Problem 1: Prayut has since 2014 demanded government agencies such as Ministries of Tourism and Transport use more rubber products made in Thailand to provide an artificial demand to raise prices.

 

Then there is the recent government "TH-TYRE” project to in part have the Thailand auto industry increase rubber content in domestic motorcycle tires and automobile tires for taxis, vans, and pickup trucks from 10% to 45%!

 

But such consumption increases only works domestically and not globally where needed increase in demand would be far beyond that which Thailand can affect for significant price increase.

 

Problem 2: Rubber farmers production costs cost is Bt65 per kilogram (in 2014). They insist on a 30% profit margin for sustainability requiring a market price of Bt80-90/K! So while the farmers over the last 3.5 years since the coup have accepted government price subsidies above global market prices in conjunction with cash subsidies and soft loans in exchange for their public protests, they never were really never breaking even.

 

Farmers need to lower their inherent cost of production beyond the offsets provided by occasional short-term government subsidies. That might mean downsizing the rubber farming industry while automating it.

 

Problem 3: Thailand agreed in November 2014 with Indonesia, Malaysia, Myanmar, Laos, Cambodia and Vietnam to increase the natural rubber price to Bt60 per kilogram in 18 months (about May 2017?). Reuters reported in June 2017 that the Thai benchmark unsmoked rubber sheet RUB-USS3-HDY was quoted at 55.05 baht per kilogram, down more than 40% from 93.52 baht in January. So success in price increase but ultimately not sustainable.

https://www.reuters.com/article/thailand-rubber/thailand-takes-steps-to-help-rubber-farmers-cope-with-low-prices-idUSL3N1JA3XT

It appears that global demand is not exactly elastic with production supply. Highly developed nations have scientific resources to reduce reliance on strategic imports. Thailand needs to innovate more uses for natural rubber to increase global demand and begin to shift its economic reliance on natural rubber farming to more diversified substitutions.

Edited November 11, 20178 yr by Srikcir
insert "not"

1 hour ago, robblok said:

Strange that you know better as those investigating the problem who reported it in the BKK post Tyremakers bash Thai rubber just google for that phrase.

 

Where do you get your numbers from your thumb or do you have something to back them up with ? I wonder if there was no problem why it would be reported as this. I have no numbers just the report from the BKK post so can't really counter them.

 

As for your remark that long term professional tappers would not want anything to do with SA.. you might be right but anyone wanting to make a quick buck might think different. Unfortunately professional are often hard to find in this country. 

I have 24 acres here (64 rai in metric). This is our 7th season tapping. I am surrounded by rubber plantations. It's what we do. I get my info from around me, opening my eyes and listening to other people in the business. In Lao. In Thai. Like the 500 odd other sellers at the fortnightly auctions.

 Not from some journo in the big city who got his info from some other journo who got his................

1 hour ago, Srikcir said:

Thailand needs to innovate more uses for natural rubber to increase global demand and begin to shift its economic reliance on natural rubber farming to more diversified substitutions.

So true especially on diversification. One major reason as to Malaysia reduction in rubber plantation was due to the fact that farmers diversify to palm which has a shorter growing time. Some diversification to fruit trees. Government took the lead on this and provided lots of training, grants and expertise. Not here I suppose.

 

However one structural problem is that is that the price of rubber is determined by future markets in Singapore and Japan. Thailand must made a better effort to set up their own future market to be able to determine the price. Perhaps with Indonesia and Malaysia which control majority of global rubber production .