Brexit never? Britain can still change its mind, says Article 50 author

[boomerangutang]

There should be another vote.   

Now, Brits are better apprised of the consequences, and can therefore make smarter decisions.

 

Personally, I'm against Brexit, but am neither a Brit nor an European, though half my years, up to age 24 were in Europe.   

 

I also suspect that Russkies may have been involved with the lead-up to the Brexit vote. The incentive was large:  A united and strong EU is a continued bulwark against Russian expansionism.  A fractured EU is not as strong a deterrent - against Russian plans to re-cobble USSR territories (though the Russians wouldn't bring back the USSR name).

 

Ukraine, and a few other former satellite states are just appetizers for Putin's ambitions. He must surely have his sights set on about 10 other former Soviet states - ripe for take-over.  Indeed, that's why Putin worked so diligently (and was so gleeful) at Trump's win.  Putin could roll tanks into any one of several small neighboring (former USSR) states, and Trump wouldn't mind.   Would Britain mind?    EU would.  

[mfd101]

2 hours ago, Kenegg said:

How do you know this when they don't keep accounts?

Of course 'they' keep accounts. You can't run a corner grocery store without accounts. The accounts are published regularly for all to see.

 

Talk about paranoia! "They're all liars. I just know it!"

[petermik]

The vote was for out....and out it should be,end of debate...

Over 10,500 non elected "bureaucrats" in Brussels with salaries greater than we pay our PM telling US the British people what is in OUR best interests.........

[natway09]

Very interesting reading folks Thankyou

[Grouse]

12 minutes ago, petermik said:

The vote was for out....and out it should be,end of debate...

Over 10,500 non elected "bureaucrats" in Brussels with salaries greater than we pay our PM telling US the British people what is in OUR best interests.........

And you would trust our "government"? Nurse! Nurse!

[Aforek]

3 hours ago, Kenegg said:

How do you know this when they don't keep accounts?

The official site of  French gouvernement says that in 2013  Germany was the first contributor, then Britain, then France 

https://www.economie.gouv.fr/union-europeenne-contribution-de-la-france-pour-2015

[Stargeezr]

The EU wants the UK back because it has Greece, Italy and even Spain.  Need I say more.   Also 30 years ago, how many Muslims and Africans were living in the

UK compared with how many are there today, just a curious question, as I have seen the changes in France, Holy Teledo, a lot of changes , and Arab sections with Arabic Stop signs and business signs etc.

Geezer

[Aforek]

3 hours ago, phantomfiddler said:

Very sad that an evil nation that tried to conquer the world (and lost) is now calling the shots, and the countries that Britain saved are helping them to do it. As the saying goes, no good deed goes unpunished

it's the course of history, everything is moving, look back, many alliances have been defeated and rebuilt ( google traduction, sorry, I hope it's correct English ) 

 

5 minutes ago, Stargrazer9889 said:

The EU wants the UK back because it has Greece, Italy and even Spain.  Need I say more.   Also 30 years ago, how many Muslims and Africans were living in the

UK compared with how many are there today, just a curious question, as I have seen the changes in France, Holy Teledo, a lot of changes , and Arab sections with Arabic Stop signs and business signs etc.

Geezer

Who says that EU wants the UK back ? it's a suggestion from an English man 

Edited November 11, 2017 by Aforek

[RuamRudy]

16 hours ago, JHolmesJr said:

 

Makes my blood boil when stooges try to subvert the will of the people.....Booooo!

 

By doing things like this?

 

[RuamRudy]

11 minutes ago, Stargrazer9889 said:

The EU wants the UK back because it has Greece, Italy and even Spain.  Need I say more.   Also 30 years ago, how many Muslims and Africans were living in the

UK compared with how many are there today, just a curious question, as I have seen the changes in France, Holy Teledo, a lot of changes , and Arab sections with Arabic Stop signs and business signs etc.

Geezer

Have you seen footage of the Jungle in Calais? If the EU was intent on filling the UK with immigrants, the Jungle would not exist. The shambles that is the UK immigration policy is a home-grown shambles, one that our current PM had a significant role in creating. 

[petermik]

7 hours ago, Grouse said:

And you would trust our "government"? Nurse! Nurse!

Our "government" was elected by us,and accountable to us...........the "johnnie foreigners" in Brussels were not....simple as

as for nurse nurse she is in attendance with me nightly for my bed bath and any other form of comfort she deems as necessary

You don,t like brexit...tough......the majority wanted it.....get used to it.

[RuamRudy]

3 minutes ago, petermik said:

as for nurse nurse she is in attendance with me nightly for my bed bath and any other form of comfort she deems as necessary

Make the most of it because soon she will be sent back to the Philippines.

[petermik]

7 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

Make the most of it because soon she will be sent back to the Philippines.

Your assumption is way off the mark.........don,t give up your day job as you will never earn a living trying to be a comic

[impulse]

10 hours ago, Thongkorn said:

So what he is saying is that a democratic vote can be overturned if you dont like the outcome, 

 

Spain seems to think so, too...  But for different reasons.

 

Repeating my favorite comment on the "vote":  What's another name for a non-binding referendum?  Opinion poll.  The opinions of the people were passed on to those they elected to represent them. 

 

What those elected officials do with those opinions is now up to them.  That's the difference between a direct democracy and a representative democracy. 

 

[Khun Han]

3 hours ago, boomerangutang said:

There should be another vote.   

Now, Brits are better apprised of the consequences, and can therefore make smarter decisions.

 

Personally, I'm against Brexit, but am neither a Brit nor an European, though half my years, up to age 24 were in Europe.   

 

I also suspect that Russkies may have been involved with the lead-up to the Brexit vote. The incentive was large:  A united and strong EU is a continued bulwark against Russian expansionism.  A fractured EU is not as strong a deterrent - against Russian plans to re-cobble USSR territories (though the Russians wouldn't bring back the USSR name).

 

Ukraine, and a few other former satellite states are just appetizers for Putin's ambitions. He must surely have his sights set on about 10 other former Soviet states - ripe for take-over.  Indeed, that's why Putin worked so diligently (and was so gleeful) at Trump's win.  Putin could roll tanks into any one of several small neighboring (former USSR) states, and Trump wouldn't mind.   Would Britain mind?    EU would.  

 

Oh gawd! Here we go with 'the Russians' again! The globalists think they've found the perfect whipping boy here, it's the new McCarthyism. And their useful idiots are all over it like a rash. It's a complete red herring, of course. Did the Russians infiltrate all the workplaces,  pubs, restaurants, coffee shops, etc in the UK then (where nearly everyone formed their opinions)? The vast majority of people don't spend any time whatsoever discussing politics on internet message boards.

 

Remain's excuses just keep getting more and more silly.

[impulse]

Just now, Khun Han said:

Oh gawd! Here we go with 'the Russians' again! The globalists think they've found the perfect whipping boy here, it's the new McCarthyism. And their useful idiots are all over it like a rash. It's a complete red herring, of course. Did the Russians infiltrate all the workplaces,  pubs, restaurants, coffee shops, etc in the UK then (where nearly everyone formed their opinions)? The vast majority of people don't spend any time whatsoever discussing politics on internet message boards.

 

Remain's excuses just keep getting more and more silly.

 

If there hadn't been a bunch of football hooligans from Eastern Europe creating bad will a few weeks (days?) before the referendum, the 2% margin could have easily gone the other way.  It wasn't exactly an overwhelming mandate.

 

[Khun Han]

Just now, impulse said:

 

If there hadn't been a bunch of football hooligans from Eastern Europe creating bad will a few weeks (days?) before the referendum, the 2% margin could have easily gone the other way.  It wasn't exactly an overwhelming mandate.

 

 

Huh???

[nauseus]

17 hours ago, mfd101 said:

The figures for 'total contributions by nation' to the EU budget in 2014 are, for the 4 biggest economies:

• Germany 29.143b€
• France    20.967b€
• Italy         15.888b€
• UK            14.072b€

 

Try net contributions. It's Germany then the UK. France gets most of theirs back to service their slack farmers.

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

And you would trust our "government"? Nurse! Nurse!

At least we get a chance to boot out the worst ones. Not so with the EU old boys network.

[impulse]

4 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

Huh???

 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/jun/11/euro-2016-french-police-tactics-raise-fears-of-more-clashes-with-england-fans

 

Brexit referendum was 12 days later. 

Edited November 11, 2017 by impulse

[Khun Han]

Just now, impulse said:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/jun/11/euro-2016-french-police-tactics-raise-fears-of-more-clashes-with-england-fans

 

Brexit referendum was 11 days later. 

 

And this event has a connection with the brexit vote in what way?

[impulse]

6 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

And this event has a connection with the brexit vote in what way?

 

You don't think Putin is smart enough to foment discontent with Eastern European immigration in the runup to the Brexit vote, in an effort to influence the outcome? 

 

All he had to do is get 2.1% of the UK people to hate Eastern Europeans more than they already do, since low wage Polish immigrants were one of the hot button issues.  Of course, even he didn't know it was just 2.1%...

 

Edited November 11, 2017 by impulse

[Khun Han]

Just now, impulse said:

 

You don't think Putin is smart enough to foment discontent with Eastern European immigration in the runup to the Brexit vote, in an effort to influence the outcome? 

 

All he had to do is get 2.1% of the people to hate Eastern Europeans more than they already do, since low wage Polish immigrants were one of the hot button issues.  Of course, even he didn't know it was just 2.1%...

 

 

Wow! You're all over the place! Five minutes ago, it was a bunch of Russian football fans attacking English football fans that turned about two million people against the EU (but, strangely, not against Russia, as logic would lead one to believe). Now you're claiming that Putin has somehow developed the ability to influence the opinions of millions of British people? Tin foil hats out, everyone!

[impulse]

3 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

Wow! You're all over the place! Five minutes ago, it was a bunch of Russian football fans attacking English football fans that turned about two million people against the EU (but, strangely, not against Russia, as logic would lead one to believe). Now you're claiming that Putin has somehow developed the ability to influence the opinions of millions of British people? Tin foil hats out, everyone!

 

You just keep believing what you want.  Just like so many Republicans who don't believe Putin's crew influenced the 2016 Presidential elections...

 

[baansgr]

17 hours ago, allane said:

So, the Brexiteers have three choices:

1.Admit that their campaign was grossly misleading: Britain can't have its cake and eat it too. Accept whatever terms the EU offers, because time is on the EU's side, and that becomes more obvious every day.

2.Admit that the whole idea of Brexit was a big mistake, and that they knew, or should have known that Britain would now be where it finds itself, and support a second referendum.

3.  Brexit means Brexit, and if that means crashing out of the EU with nothing, that is what they had always wanted in any case.

They are going to appear naive, duplicitous or stupid whichever one of these choices they support, but of the three, I think the third leaves them with the least egg on their faces.

3 sounds great...bring it on.

[nauseus]

7 hours ago, nausea said:

People seem to forget, or rather ignore the fact, that the referendum was only advisory or consultative in the first place:

 

"Briefing paper 07212 sent to MPs on 3 June 2015 before the debate in the House on the 2015 Referendum Bill made it perfectly clear that the referendum was “advisory” and “consultative” only and that neither the government nor parliament was bound by it (section 5). Which bit of this are MPs now acting as if they either did not read or understand."

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2016/11/article-50-ruling-eu-referendum-was-only-ever-advisory

 

So there's nothing "set in stone" about the "will of the people" as expressed in June 2016. What If that "will" clearly changes? Are MPs supposed to go against the "will of the people" because of an historical non-binding plebiscite. Mr. Kerr is just pointing out that all options are still open.

 

What makes "my blood boil" is that the majority of MPs are going against their own consciences in proceeding with Brexit and against what, in their own

hearts, they believe to be the good of the country. Out of pure self-interest they are subverting our country's political system, which is based on a representative democracy and not town hall plebiscites for good reasons. They should resign on mass, re-run on a Remain ticket, and be replaced by MPs who truly believe in Brexit. Shouldn't be a problem, I would've thought, what, with the "will of the people" being so clearly in Brexit's favour.

 

 

The referendum was constitutionally binding and a mandate to the government to leave the EU; if it wasn't then A50 probably not have even been triggered! Even the dimmest of our members of parliament can see this and the dangers of openly defying the referendum result. Most of the MP's are seemingly going against their own convictions (I would call it self-interest) as they are apparently pro-remain but I haven't asked them all personally!

[AGareth2]

1 minute ago, nauseus said:

The referendum was constitutionally binding

sorry wrong

[baansgr]

Just now, impulse said:

 

You just keep believing what you want.  Just like so many Republicans who don't believe Putin's crew influenced the 2016 Presidential elections...

 

No grassy Knowles, just educated people voting for a better future, sorry to burst the bubble on the main bar fly topic of conversation...

[nauseus]

17 hours ago, Grouse said:

Because you don't REALLY think things through. Does it not give you pause that ALL the bright people are anti Brexit? But we have a majority of low level munchkins who are going to get shafted yet won't see it coming!

It's all the bright people, like you, Grouse, who can't see what's coming.

[nauseus]

2 minutes ago, AGareth2 said:

sorry wrong

Sorry, should read - constitutionally and morally binding.