Questioned at BKK entering on successive SETV, advice needed.

[Soneva]

I just returned from a visa run to VTE and re-entered Thailand at Suvarnabhumi Airport. This was my forth consecutive SETV, and for the first time I was questioned about the purpose of my stay in Thailand and my source of income etc... I was allowed to enter, but was told that I “may have problems” in the future if I continue to do visa runs.

 

I am truthfully not working at all in Thailand, and have been jumping through the hoops with visa runs without any overstays. My income is foreign sourced.

 

I guess I just have a few questions:

 

1) Does a comment like that from an immigration officer constitute a warning that I need to take seriously? i.e. have I likely already been flagged for future scrutiny? I cannot see if the handwritten marking on my entry stamp means anything, or if that is just the officer’s standard way of signing. What would a negative notation look like if there were one? Would it be hand written of some kind of a stamp?

 

2) If I continue to visa run in the same manner, will I likely be okay if I make sure to have the requisite amount of cash on me and my next flight out of Thailand already booked? I also will bring bank statements as documentation of access to foreign source of income.

 

3) Do I need to change anything immediately, or would there be official warning prior to any negative action taken against my visa status and immigration clearance?

 

Incidentally, I noticed that a new system seems to be in place, and the visa itself contains computer inputted data fields. Perhaps this had to do with why I was questioned this time.

 

I answered the questions truthfully, and explained that I am not and have not been working in Thailand at all, and that I live with my Thai family here. When I mentioned that, the officer appeared to be understanding and it satisfied some of her concerns. Although understandably, these officials are used to being lied to, so they have reasons to be skeptical.

 

Basically, am I safe continuing BKK-VTE visa runs by air on TG, assuming I meet the financial criteria and have all necessary documentation and tickets?

 

Or, should I be crossing a land boarder instead, or otherwise do I need to change what I am doing?

 

Or, do I need to get a different visa status altogether? It seems that many people successfully visa run on SETVs for extended periods, but I know there has been heightened scrutiny of this in recent years and months.

 

Any advice or information is greatly appreciated!

 

 

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[NanLaew]

10 minutes ago, Soneva said:

1) Does a comment like that from an immigration officer constitute a warning that I need to take seriously?

Yes. Regardless of what was or wasn't written in your passport, your file in their immigration computer has probably been 'flagged'.

 

11 minutes ago, Soneva said:

2) If I continue to visa run in the same manner, will I likely be okay if I make sure to have the requisite amount of cash on me and my next flight out of Thailand already booked?

At this juncture, that's all you can do. The bank statements, if Thai, may the Sword of Damocles to a more ardent Immigration Officer since banks are not supposed to allow bona-fide tourists to open accounts. Foreign bank statements and the linked ATM card would be OK.

 

13 minutes ago, Soneva said:

3) Do I need to change anything immediately, or would there be official warning prior to any negative action taken against my visa status and immigration clearance?

Nothing you can change is there? Unless there's a plan to marry a local really quick and change the visa and Thai domicile status based on that.

 

16 minutes ago, Soneva said:

I answered the questions truthfully, and explained that I am not and have not been working in Thailand at all, and that I live with my Thai family here. When I mentioned that, the officer appeared to be understanding and it satisfied some of her concerns.

The next Immigration Officer may have a diffferent attitude and/or more time to 'research' your claimed Tourist status. AFAIK, the Suvarnabhumi entry has been less fraught with these extra questions than Don Meuang entries but that premise has also been challenged lately.

 

19 minutes ago, Soneva said:

Or, should I be crossing a land boarder instead, or otherwise do I need to change what I am doing?

There's large inconsistency on when it comes to the 'hard' versus 'soft' border Immigration experience. Someone with recent and/or regular experience in doing this should post here eventually.

 

22 minutes ago, Soneva said:

Or, do I need to get a different visa status altogether? It seems that many people successfully visa run on SETVs for extended periods, but I know there has been heightened scrutiny of this in recent years and months.

Yes, you should do your homework and see what other options are available.

[JackThompson]

29 minutes ago, Soneva said:

Or, should I be crossing a land boarder instead

Using Land Borders, which follow actual Immigration Law, would solve the problem completely, according to reports to-date - just avoid the Poipet/Aranyaprathet crossing.  You have done nothing legally wrong - there is no legal-count on entering with valid Tourist Visas in any time-frame - but some IOs at airports don't agree with the law.
 

32 minutes ago, Soneva said:

Does a comment like that from an immigration officer constitute a warning that I need to take seriously?

Yes - if you continue to enter at lawless checkpoints, you are taking a risk. 

 

33 minutes ago, Soneva said:

will I likely be okay if I make sure to have the requisite amount of cash on me and my next flight out of Thailand already booked?  I also will bring bank statements as documentation of access to foreign source of income.

That plus a valid visa lowers your odds of rejection.  But there is no guarantee they will consider your bank-statements, and could accuse you of working illegally and deny entry on those grounds.  It is unlikely - only one report of that here so far (who knows how many were not reported here) - but it could happen.

 

When I was using Tourist Visas, I used safe land-borders exclusively.  Domestic flights are not a problem.  We do not have any horror-stories from Chang Mai (yet) - so that could be an option - but keep in mind, if denied-entry at an airport, you go to detention - not like a land-border where you can return where you came from, cancel your exit stamp, and make a Plan B.

 

31 minutes ago, Soneva said:

Or, do I need to get a different visa status altogether?

If possible - yes.  That depends on your age, if married to a Thai, etc.  Bottom line - you'd need a way to qualify for a different visa / permit-of-stay.

[JackThompson]

17 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

... since banks are not supposed to allow bona-fide tourists to open accounts.

Is this a recent change and/or do you have a source for this? 

[Soneva]

Yes, you should do your homework and see what other options are available.

Thank you very much for the advice.

The only real other option on the table right now is getting a teaching job or such, and thereby a work permit and different visa status.

Or there is the “Thailand Elite” option


Is this a common experience among visa runners? If I continue doing as I have been, is there a serious risk of a problem? Bank statements are foreign and I have the the associated ATM cards.

I use the fast track immigration at BKK, until now I thought that BKK would be subject to less scrutiny than land boarders. However, in other threads, there is a counter argument that there is safety in being able to “back away” from a land boarder crossing, as apposed to being trapped at an airport, where detention is possible.

It’s disconcerting that I have apparently been flagged in the system. I’ll have to figure out how to proceed, as I cannot risk being denied entry.


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[JackThompson]

10 minutes ago, Soneva said:

However, in other threads, there is a counter argument that there is safety in being able to “back away” from a land boarder crossing, as apposed to being trapped at an airport, where detention is possible.

Being able to walk away is a big plus, added to the fact that we don't have any reports for years of people with valid Tourist Visas, plus the requisite-cash, being denied-entry at land-borders - except at Poipet, where people were threatened on exit, so had to go on a ride South to Ban Laem or Ban Packard and enter there (without any problems). 

 

15 minutes ago, Soneva said:

It’s disconcerting that I have apparently been flagged in the system. I’ll have to figure out how to proceed, as I cannot risk being denied entry.

There is no evidence you have been "flagged."  One agent who doesn't agree with the law has said things - that is all.  Others have been threatened into buying tickets they didn't need, and told "big trouble" if they didn't use them, etc.  But, no one with similar experiences had any trouble when returning by land - even those denied entry (which is an official mark in the system).

[Soneva]

There is no evidence you have been "flagged."  One agent who doesn't agree with the law has said things - that is all.  Others have been threatened into buying tickets they didn't need, and told "big trouble" if they didn't use them, etc.  But, no one with similar experiences had any trouble when returning by land - even those denied entry (which is an official mark in the system).

Thanks very much. When I do another visa fun, I’ll definitely cross by land. I can fly as far as Udon Thani domestically if I choose, and the do the crossings on land.

In the worst case scenario, being able to back away and temporarily stay in Laos while I sorted out the problem would be much more comfortable.

I could also benefit from possibly being able to ask more experienced people for advice on which crossing to use, etc...

It’s not as comfortable or as fast as the direct flights I have been using, but I’m very uncomfortable about being a sitting duck and potentially walking into a problem at BKK.


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[lamyai3]

I wouldn't necessarily assume you've been flagged, many people get questioned occasionally without problems. The comment she made about the problem of staying long term on tourist visas is pretty standard from an IO. 

 

One important problem - you state that you keep returning to VTE to get your tourist visas. Doing this more than three times in a row from the same embassy will likely get you a warning from the embassy and a warning stamp from them in your passport. The solution is to apply next time in a different embassy (Vietnam, HK, Penang or similar) and break the cycle. Even better is to get visas from the embassy in your home country whenever you touch base there. 

Edited November 17, 2017 by lamyai3

[JackThompson]

2 minutes ago, Soneva said:

It’s not as comfortable or as fast as the direct flights I have been using, but I’m very uncomfortable about being a sitting duck and potentially walking into a problem at BKK.

There are fly-ride services that make it easy - to Mukdahan/Savanahket also.  Sometimes the timing requires an extra night, which is why I usually took an overnight VIP bus from Bangkok, since it brought me to the bridge just before it opened - so I could submit that day.  Alternatively, fly and just spend an extra night.  Many report no problem making a flight-back from UT the next day, after they get their visa back from the consulate.

[Soneva]

If possible - yes.  That depends on your age, if married to a Thai, etc.  Bottom line - you'd need a way to qualify for a different visa / permit-of-stay.

Thanks very much.

Yes, having the option of returning to Laos is a huge plus. I would have the choice of multiple crossings to re-attempt if necessary. And there could be a certain safety in numbers if surrounded by many people in similar circumstances.

Although I usually travel on my own arrangements, would there be any benefit to looking into a visa run service/organizer to join for the consulate and/or border crossing?

I suppose to save time, I might fly out directly to VTE, but enter by land and then take a domestic flight from Udon Thani, for example, on the return.


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[Soneva]

I wouldn't necessarily assume you've been flagged, many people get questioned occasionally without problems. The comment she made about the problem of staying long term on tourist visas is pretty standard from an IO. 
 
One important problem - you state that you keep returning to VTE to get your tourist visas. Doing this more than three times in a row from the same embassy will likely get you a warning from the embassy and a warning stamp from them in your passport. The solution is to apply next time in a different embassy (Vietnam, HK, Penang or similar) and break the cycle. Even better is to get visas from the embassy in your home country whenever you touch base there. 

This was my fourth consecutive visa from Vientiane. No warning stamp this time.

Which consulates/embassies with land boarder access would be good options?

I am most comfortable with Laos, but Cambodia would be an option (if avoiding problematic border crossings). I suppose Malaysia and Myanmar are the only other options.

I never ho back to the US (home country), so that is not a viable option for a visa run.


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[BritTim]

2 hours ago, Soneva said:

Basically, am I safe continuing BKK-VTE visa runs by air on TG, assuming I meet the financial criteria and have all necessary documentation and tickets?

 

An immediate problem you are going to face if you continue to exclusively use Vientiane for your tourist visa applications is that they are going to red stamp you, which will make it very difficult to get further visas in the region.

 

My suggestion would be to use Savannakhet (returning by land) followed by Hong Kong (returning by air with the items you outline) for your next two visa runs. Savannakhet will require an onward flight out of Thailand, and your Hong Kong flight will do. Take something to Savannakhet that proves you are staying with your Thai relatives. For Hong Kong, there are basically no requirements (still true according to recent reports). You may be questioned on entry at Suvarnabhumi from Hong Kong, but should be OK using the same explanations as before.

[Soneva]

An immediate problem you are going to face if you continue to exclusively use Vientiane for your tourist visa applications is that they are going to red stamp you, which will make it very difficult to get further visas in the region.
 
My suggestion would be to use Savannakhet (returning by land) followed by Hong Kong (returning by air with the items you outline) for your next two visa runs. Savannakhet will require an onward flight out of Thailand, and your Hong Kong flight will do. Take something to Savannakhet that proves you are staying with your Thai relatives. For Hong Kong, there are basically no requirements (still true according to recent reports). You may be questioned on entry at Suvarnabhumi from Hong Kong, but should be OK using the same explanations as before.

Thank you for this advice. So I need to avoid being red stamped, and therefore will not use Vientiane on the next trip.

Why do you recommend those two locations in particular? My Thai “relatives” are not blood relatives by the way. Would you suggest some kind of “invitation” letter? Or, would traveling with family help?

Would Myanmar be an alternative, or would HK in particular be a better choice?


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[BritTim]

10 minutes ago, Soneva said:

Thank you for this advice. So I need to avoid being red stamped, and therefore will not use Vientiane on the next trip.

Why do you recommend those two locations in particular? My Thai “relatives” are not blood relatives by the way. Would you suggest some kind of “invitation” letter? Or, would traveling with family help?

Would Myanmar be an alternative, or would HK in particular be a better choice?

 

I recommend Hong Kong because of the very easy requirements, high efficiency, and lack of reports of people getting red stamped. Although it costs a bit more (in spite of no Laos visa cost) it really is the pleasantest place for a visa run in the region. I suggest Savannakhet (in spite of slightly annoying travel connections) because you enter Thailand by land, and there are no reports of red stamps from there.

 

Yangon (Myanmar) is fine, except that you need a Myanmar visa in advance. Also, if you wish to enter by land, it means a long bus trip to Myawaddy, crossing the border at Mae Sot, then (probably easiest) a domestic flight from Mae Sot airport close to the border to Bangkok.

 

For proof of staying with Thais, an invitation letter, plus a couple of photos might do it. As an alternative, you could create hotel reservations on something like Booking.com that allows free cancellation. They insist on hotel bookings or equivalent at Savannakhet. Savannakhet will also want to see bank statements, but I understand you are going to have those anyway, so it will just be a matter of copying them.

[Maestro]

1 hour ago, Soneva said:

My Thai “relatives” are not blood relatives by the way.

 

Therefore, these Thai members of your family would be a wife and a child or children of hers of whom you are not the father, wouldn't they? Or Thai children you adopted?

[Soneva]

I recommend Hong Kong because of the very easy requirements, high efficiency, and lack of reports of people getting red stamped. Although it costs a bit more (in spite of no Laos visa cost) it really is the pleasantest place for a visa run in the region. I suggest Savannakhet (in spite of slightly annoying travel connections) because you enter Thailand by land, and there are no reports of red stamps from there.
 
Yangon (Myanmar) is fine, except that you need a Myanmar visa in advance. Also, if you wish to enter by land, it means a long bus trip to Myawaddy, crossing the border at Mae Sot, then (probably easiest) a domestic flight from Mae Sot airport close to the border to Bangkok.
 
For proof of staying with Thais, an invitation letter, plus a couple of photos might do it. As an alternative, you could create hotel reservations on something like Booking.com that allows free cancellation. They insist on hotel bookings or equivalent at Savannakhet. Savannakhet will also want to see bank statements, but I understand you are going to have those anyway, so it will just be a matter of copying them.

Thanks very much. So, the most important thing is not repeating the same consulate or embassy too many times to avoid “red stamp.”

It’s good to know re Hong Kong being an easy place to take care of a visa (which also has great food and things to do while there!)

Regarding the red stamp, how long of a “break” from using Vientiane is sufficient in terms of avoidance a red stamp? Is it sufficient to simply alternate between the same few places?

Also, is there anything wrong with getting a visa in one country and then entering by land from Laos anyway. It has occurred to me that I could get the visa in a place like Hanoi, Hong Kong, Phenom Penh, etc..., fly to Luang Prabang of Vientiane to relax and go sightseeing, and then cross a land boarder and return to bkk on a domestic flight.

Would that cause any problems? I support travelers in the region often do so anyway as a result of their natural itineraries.

All of this is sufficiently burdensome to make me want to consider other visa types if I can. But, on the other hand, I like traveling in the region to all of these places, and I always turn such trips into short vacations anyway.


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[baneko]

Thanks very much. So, the most important thing is not repeating the same consulate or embassy too many times to avoid “red stamp.”

It’s good to know re Hong Kong being an easy place to take care of a visa (which also has great food and things to do while there!)

Regarding the red stamp, how long of a “break” from using Vientiane is sufficient in terms of avoidance a red stamp? Is it sufficient to simply alternate between the same few places?

Also, is there anything wrong with getting a visa in one country and then entering by land from Laos anyway. It has occurred to me that I could get the visa in a place like Hanoi, Hong Kong, Phenom Penh, etc..., fly to Luang Prabang of Vientiane to relax and go sightseeing, and then cross a land boarder and return to bkk on a domestic flight.

Would that cause any problems? I support travelers in the region often do so anyway as a result of their natural itineraries.

All of this is sufficiently burdensome to make me want to consider other visa types if I can. But, on the other hand, I like traveling in the region to all of these places, and I always turn such trips into short vacations anyway.


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You can fly into Savannakhet directly. I just booked at just over 4K Baht. Then you can use the land border coming back to Mukdahan.

Nok air have a fly and drive all in package from Mukdahan to DMK via usually Nakhon Phanom or Ubon for around 1500 baht.

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[BritTim]

2 hours ago, Soneva said:

Also, is there anything wrong with getting a visa in one country and then entering by land from Laos anyway. It has occurred to me that I could get the visa in a place like Hanoi, Hong Kong, Phenom Penh, etc..., fly to Luang Prabang of Vientiane to relax and go sightseeing, and then cross a land boarder and return to bkk on a domestic flight.

There would be nothing at all wrong with that. If you like Laos, and fancy spending a day or two there, it is actually a good solution. The only real objection is that flights Bangkok->Hong Kong->Vientiane->Udon->Bangkok are likely to be substantially more expensive than simply Bangkok<->Hong Kong.

[Tanoshi]

You mentioned Thai family?

 

Are you legally married to a Thai?

Do you have children with a Thai partner?

What is your age?

 

There may be alternative options to repetitive TV Visas, but your lack of any personal details inhibits answers.

[BritTim]

2 hours ago, Soneva said:

Regarding the red stamp, how long of a “break” from using Vientiane is sufficient in terms of avoidance a red stamp? Is it sufficient to simply alternate between the same few places?

You probably should not try Vientiane again until ready to replace your passport.

 

There is an art to avoiding red stamps. Part of it is knowing which consulates only consider previous visas they issued (Vientiane, for instance) and those who consider all tourist visas issued in the region (I think Penang now falls into that category).

 

Based on recent reports, you should be safe with 2 from Hong Kong, 2 from HCMC, 1 or 2 from Hanoi, 2 from Yangon and unlimited numbers from Savannakhet.

[bkkcanuck8]

9 hours ago, lamyai3 said:

I wouldn't necessarily assume you've been flagged, many people get questioned occasionally without problems. The comment she made about the problem of staying long term on tourist visas is pretty standard from an IO. 

Many people get flagged, and this will lead to lengthy interviews.  My suspicion is that is exactly what has happened and given the response of the IO -- you did not satisfy the IO that the source of your money was legit.   As such I would not be surprised if you were pulled aside for a followup on your next entry.  If you can prove that you have sufficient funds and they are from legit sources outside Thailand -- that would be written on your profile and you would no longer have problems.  The problem is it is not transparent so we never know what is really going on.

[hawker9000]

I don't understand why it's so hard for so many to accept that successive Tourist Visas are NO LONGER a viable way of remaining in the country indefinitely.  Without offering any opinion as to whether that's a good thing or a bad thing, the worm has in fact turned, slowly, but it has turned.  Roll the dice if you want to; some definitely do; some will simple-mindedly assert that since they've been doing it for years & years with no problems that guarantees others will also never have a problem.  Incredibly thick-headed advice.  They're actually taking their chances just like you are.  Tourist Visas are NOT for the purpose of residence, and all it takes is for an IO somewhere, sometime, to up & decide to exercise his discretion and deny you another entry, probably when you least expect it and can least afford it.   If you have no objection to the expense - as many do - the Elite card is probably a better option (unless you have a spouse, children, are over 55, etc., as Tanoshi was mentioning above).  It's partly, but not entirely, about your working illegally, or deriving your income from within Thailand illegally.  If an IO believes you're living in Thailand on tourist visas, he certainly has the discretion to deny permission to enter; your fate is entirely in his hands at that point, and he doesn't have to prove to anyone that you're working illegally and doesn't even have to examine whatever documentation you might have to show him.

 

  

[JackThompson]

21 minutes ago, hawker9000 said:

I don't understand why it's so hard for so many to accept that successive Tourist Visas are NO LONGER a viable way of remaining in the country indefinitely. 

Because they still are completely viable, as long as you enter via land-borders where the actual laws and ministerial-orders currently in-effect are followed. 

 

I would advise all people doing this, however, to always have a "Plan B" - since a new ministerial order could be published, at some point in the future, which changes the status-quo.  Fortunately, Cambodia, Vietnam, and The Philippines are close by, and have very welcoming visa-offers - but lease-deposits and personal property that are not easily moved must be kept in the, "could be lost" category of one's personal finances.

 

21 minutes ago, hawker9000 said:

It's partly, but not entirely, about your working illegally, or deriving your income from within Thailand illegally.  If an IO believes you're living in Thailand on tourist visas, he certainly has the discretion to deny permission to enter; your fate is entirely in his hands at that point, and he doesn't have to prove to anyone that you're working illegally and doesn't even have to examine whatever documentation you might have to show him.

An IO does not have the legal discretion to do deny-entry based on a lie, and ignore documentation proving otherwise - but they could very well "just do it" anyway, if they are of a certain mindset.  This is why using points-of-entry where the actual laws are followed is crucial.

Edited November 18, 2017 by JackThompson

[hawker9000]

Just now, JackThompson said:

Because they still are completely viable, as long as you enter via land-borders where the actual laws and ministerial-orders currently in-effect are followed. 

 

I would advise all doing this, however, to always have a "Plan B" - since a new ministerial order could be published, at some point in the future, which changes the status-quo.  Fortunately, Cambodia, Vietnam, and The Philippines are close by, and have very welcoming visa-offers - but lease-deposits and personal property that are not easily moved must be kept in the, "could be lost" category of one's personal finances.

 

An IO does not have the legal discretion to do deny-entry based on a lie, and ignore documentation proving otherwise - but they could very well "just do it" anyway, if they are of a certain mindset.  This is why using points-of-entry where the actual laws are followed is crucial.

Bad advice.  'Trying to game the system by cherry-picking one's entry points.   And you even give it out one side while advising to be sure and 'Have a Plan B' out the other.

[darrendsd]

10 hours ago, Soneva said:

Thank you very much for the advice.

The only real other option on the table right now is getting a teaching job or such, and thereby a work permit and different visa status.

Or there is the “Thailand Elite” option


Is this a common experience among visa runners? If I continue doing as I have been, is there a serious risk of a problem? Bank statements are foreign and I have the the associated ATM cards.

I use the fast track immigration at BKK, until now I thought that BKK would be subject to less scrutiny than land boarders. However, in other threads, there is a counter argument that there is safety in being able to “back away” from a land boarder crossing, as apposed to being trapped at an airport, where detention is possible.

It’s disconcerting that I have apparently been flagged in the system. I’ll have to figure out how to proceed, as I cannot risk being denied entry.


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As others have said avoid International flights, use domestic flights or land borders

 

You have nothing to worry about if you follow this advice, there is plenty of information on which friendly Embassies to use where you can avoid International flights 

 

 

[bkkcanuck8]

6 minutes ago, darrendsd said:

As others have said avoid International flights, use domestic flights or land borders

 

You have nothing to worry about if you follow this advice, there is plenty of information on which friendly Embassies to use where you can avoid International flights 

 

 

If being rejected from entering Thailand is nothing to worry about, then you are correct.  You are living your life one short temporary visa after another -- and any one of those entries could be rejected.  Things change.  Even now the press is buzzing about 200,000 overstays and foreigners in the country who have connections to "criminal organizations".  There is no difference really that can be see by a foreign criminal here on visa after visa and any other foreigner here on the same visas.... it all comes down to followup and making sure the foreigner has legit income outside of Thailand and not funded by criminal activities.  If you cannot show that you have legit income outside of Thailand, you could at any point be questioned and flagged then rejected entry if you do not satisfy them.

[JackThompson]

22 minutes ago, bkkcanuck8 said:

Many people get flagged, and this will lead to lengthy interviews.

I had a very extensive "exit interview" at the Poipet/Aranya crossing.  I was not asked to show any evidence of my finances (though I had it).  All was handled in a civil manner - no rude comments, as some have reported coming from IOs at airports.  I did not deny that my travels outside of Thailand included the purpose of obtaining new Tourist Visas. 

 

I never used an airport or Poipet after that, was here most of the time for another 2 years, and I never had any more questions.

 

2 minutes ago, hawker9000 said:

Bad advice.  'Trying to game the system by cherry-picking one's entry points.   And you even give it out one side while advising to be sure and 'Have a Plan B' out the other.

It is the IOs who are not following the law who are "gaming" something - not people following the laws.  Is a person "gaming" when they don't walk through dangerous neighborhoods full of drug-addicts at night?  "Lawless areas" are dangerous - you never know what could happen where laws are not followed or enforced.  When people in official uniforms are the ones not following the laws, it is an even more dangerous situation, having frightening implications for everyone's fragile, annual "permit of stay" renewals.

 

I suggest having a "Plan B" in case The Laws Are Amended by Ministerial Order.  That would be the legitimate (civil-society) way to handle any changes regarding those staying here longer-periods of time on Tourist Visas.  Hopefully, at least 90-days warning would be part of such changes.

[darrendsd]

1 minute ago, bkkcanuck8 said:

If being rejected from entering Thailand is nothing to worry about, then you are correct.  You are living your life one short temporary visa after another -- and any one of those entries could be rejected.  Things change.  Even now the press is buzzing about 200,000 overstays and foreigners in the country who have connections to "criminal organizations".  There is no difference really that can be see by a foreign criminal here on visa after visa and any other foreigner here on the same visas.... it all comes down to followup and making sure the foreigner has legit income outside of Thailand and not funded by criminal activities.  If you cannot show that you have legit income outside of Thailand, you could at any point be questioned and flagged then rejected entry if you do not satisfy them.

Yes I am well aware of this, you obviously don't know where people are being rejected. I do and as long as the OP follows the advice given here and does some research they will be fine

 

 

[Soneva]

I don't understand why it's so hard for so many to accept that successive Tourist Visas are NO LONGER a viable way of remaining in the country indefinitely.  Without offering any opinion as to whether that's a good thing or a bad thing, the worm has in fact turned, slowly, but it has turned.  Roll the dice if you want to; some definitely do; some will simple-mindedly assert that since they've been doing it for years & years with no problems that guarantees others will also never have a problem.  Incredibly thick-headed advice.  They're actually taking their chances just like you are.  Tourist Visas are NOT for the purpose of residence, and all it takes is for an IO somewhere, sometime, to up & decide to exercise his discretion and deny you another entry, probably when you least expect it and can least afford it.   If you have no objection to the expense - as many do - the Elite card is probably a better option (unless you have a spouse, children, are over 55, etc., as Tanoshi was mentioning above).  It's partly, but not entirely, about your working illegally, or deriving your income from within Thailand illegally.  If an IO believes you're living in Thailand on tourist visas, he certainly has the discretion to deny permission to enter; your fate is entirely in his hands at that point, and he doesn't have to prove to anyone that you're working illegally and doesn't even have to examine whatever documentation you might have to show him.
 
  

Thank you. Yes, unfortunately I do understand this, and will have to get on a viable visa status going forward. I may try my luck again with one or two more tourist visa if need be, but fully understand that it is not a long term option for someone who resides in Thailand.

I am in my early 30s. I am not married and will not be able to get married, nor do I have children.

So, I guess my long term options are to get visa sponsorship through an employer, or to get a Thailand Elite visa. The TE visa is actually less expensive in the long term than the visa runs I have been taking. I just would have to have the money to pay upfront for a minimum of a five year visa, which as I understand it is about ฿500,000 the last time I checked. That is potentially doable for me, but not necessarily right away.

I am in no way comfortable with being at the mercy of immigration officers, nor do I feel I should have to be. However, with my set of circumstances, it may be my only choice to take that risk another time or two. So, I have posted here to figure out how I can minimize the risk of serious problems if I do have to do so again.

The last thing I want is to run the risk of being denied entry. And I realize that is exactly what I am doing, however great or small that risk may actually be. There are data points that suggest it can be pulled off for a rather long time as outlined above by other posters, but it is obviously far from an ideal situation.


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[BritTim]

49 minutes ago, hawker9000 said:

Tourist Visas are NOT for the purpose of residence, and all it takes is for an IO somewhere, sometime, to up & decide to exercise his discretion and deny you another entry, probably when you least expect it and can least afford it.

Nothing in the Thai immigration laws states that tourist visas cannot be used to stay long term in Thailand. I appreciate that you and some immigration officials disagree with the law as it stands, and think it should be amended. However, an immigration official exercising his discretion to deny you entry with a valid tourist visa needs to lie about why he is doing it (such as claiming to know you are entering to work illegally). There is no category under Section 12 of the immigration act to deny entry because you are a tourist for too long.