Questioned at BKK entering on successive SETV, advice needed.

[Soneva]

I was previously of the belief, perhaps erroneously, that BKK was less likely to scrutinize my entries. This recent incident was in fact the only time anyone has ever said anything to me. I suppose either I chose the wrong IO’s line to wait in among the six of them working fast track, or somehow the new system alerted the officer as this was my fourth consecutive tourist visa.

She was basically helpful. I answered truthfully, and she seemed to be somewhat understanding that I lived with my family. She said she would let it go this time, but that I “might have problems in the future.”

I don’t know if that constitutes a formal warning. I don’t really think so. I would expect a formal warning to be more explicit than saying that I “may have problems” in the future.

Under the circumstances she was quite friendly. I must say I am actually impressed that the Thai government is rather lenient in this regard. While I am now anxious about future visa runs, if I still need to take them, perhaps I should be thankful that I had this experience to make sure I’m more careful about this going forward.


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[bkkcanuck8]

2 minutes ago, Soneva said:

I was previously of the belief, perhaps erroneously, that BKK was less likely to scrutinize my entries. This recent incident was in fact the only time anyone has ever said anything to me. I suppose either I chose the wrong IO’s line to wait in among the six of them working fast track, or somehow the new system alerted the officer as this was my fourth consecutive tourist visa.

She was basically helpful. I answered truthfully, and she seemed to be somewhat understanding that I lived with my family. She said she would let it go this time, but that I “might have problems in the future.”

I don’t know if that constitutes a formal warning. I don’t really think so. I would expect a formal warning to be more explicit than saying that I “may have problems” in the future.

Under the circumstances she was quite friendly. I must say I am actually impressed that the Thai government is rather lenient in this regard. While I am now anxious about future visa runs, if I still need to take them, perhaps I should be thankful that I had this experience to make sure I’m more careful about this going forward.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

I doubt that was a formal warning...  They would likely say something to the effect that the next time that you will have to get the appropriate visa (the light warning), or that you will have to bring more proof such as bank statements, proof of income etc. (more harsher warning).   You should be fine at the border crossings -- or if you take a break from the airport route for a while (i.e. a couple months out).

[elviajero]

44 minutes ago, Soneva said:

I was previously of the belief, perhaps erroneously, that BKK was less likely to scrutinize my entries.

In the past that was true. But more people now do air visa runs so the focus is also on the airports. 

 

44 minutes ago, Soneva said:

She was basically helpful. I answered truthfully, and she seemed to be somewhat understanding that I lived with my family. She said she would let it go this time, but that I “might have problems in the future.”

It will always come down to the IO on the day. The chances of being denied, especially at the airport, are small. If you enter at a land border, the IO's have been known to simply turn people away. That can't happen at an airport.

 

44 minutes ago, Soneva said:

I don’t know if that constitutes a formal warning. I don’t really think so. I would expect a formal warning to be more explicit than saying that I “may have problems” in the future.

The tactic seems to be to warn people, rather than deny entry, as the warning alone probably stops quite a few people.

 

44 minutes ago, Soneva said:

I must say I am actually impressed that the Thai government is rather lenient in this regard.

Exactly the right attitude. Accept the fact that you are pushing your luck with every future entry, and have a plan B. Immigration, as a general rule, are still very lax at the airport.

Edited November 18, 2017 by elviajero

[AlexRich]

You might want to hang out in the Philipinnes for 6-9 months and then start over again with the tourist visa.

 

Another option is the language visa, but that ties you to classes and locations, so may not be ideal.

[ChomDo]

I didn't read all the answers so not sure if this was suggested already. I live here with exactly the same circumstance as you and I never go for many consecutive SETV's. I always alternate between SETV (also from different consulates) and exempt. So lets say I get a SETV from Vientiane and after 90 days I'll just fly somewhere for a little holiday and come back with exempt (30+30 days). Also I spend one month a year back in my own country. I've been doing this for years and never been questioned, so I'm assuming it helps.

 

The only time I was questioned was when I had a ED visa to a language school. Other than that nothing in 10 years. I think the most consecutive SETVs I've had was 2 or 3.   

[darrendsd]

2 minutes ago, ChomDo said:

I didn't read all the answers so not sure if this was suggested already. I live here with exactly the same circumstance as you and I never go for many consecutive SETV's. I always alternate between SETV (also from different consulates) and exempt. So lets say I get a SETV from Vientiane and after 90 days I'll just fly somewhere for a little holiday and come back with exempt (30+30 days). Also I spend one month a year back in my own country. I've been doing this for years and never been questioned, so I'm assuming it helps.

 

The only time I was questioned was when I had a ED visa to a language school. Other than that nothing in 10 years. I think the most consecutive SETVs I've had was 2 or 3.   

Which proves my point and from my own personal experience that it can be done despite what the doom and gloom posters think

[ChomDo]

7 minutes ago, darrendsd said:

Which proves my point and from my own personal experience that it can be done despite what the doom and gloom posters think

For sure. I mean some years ago when I was kind of out of options after my ED Visa for an MBA degree, I did a 2 year language school visa (just to get a visa as so many have to, because there aren't any smart enough visa solutions in this country). After that was done I've been flipping between SETV and exempt for many years now and no problem. Of course it's silly that we have to do this instead of having a proper visa, but they still don't have anything available for digital nomads.

[EcigAmateur]

Always keep with you evidences of your money abroad.

But if you really have money you should get an Elite visa, or cheaper, marry a Thai, it can be done for almost free and they do not eat so much.

 

 

[NanLaew]

21 hours ago, JackThompson said:

Is this a recent change and/or do you have a source for this? 

Sorry for posting misinformation. This from Bangkok Bank website:-

 

For Foreigners

1. Foreigner with a Work Permit

• Passport
• Work Permit

 

2. Foreigner with Long-stay or Tourist Visa

• Passport
• A Letter of Reference issued by: (One of the following)
• Embassy or international organization
• Customer’s home bank to Bangkok Bank via the SWIFT messaging network
• Person acceptable to Bangkok Bank e.g. branch officer, customer, government officer or company executive
• Educational institution located in Thailand and acceptable to the bank
• Company that is acceptable to the bank, confirming the customer is in the process of getting a work permit
• In addition, other document that shows the name of the customer can be used as a supported document besides the documents mentioned above i.e. a document showing the ownership of real estate in Thailand such as a unit in a condominium.
   

My initial statement was based on the numerous posts where newcomers express frustration at being denied a bank account with lack of WP being the most common fob-off. Looks like the 'easily obtained' Letter of Reference is the great enabler.

 

Thus I stand corrected. With perseverance and the right documentation (and the right customer service rep in the right mood at the right branch of the right bank!), opening an account as a tourist is legally permitted.

 

Does the average Immigration officer know this? I would  wager that the right to have a Thai bank book and ATM card may be ignored by an Immigration officer having a bad hair day or missing their rejection quota who suspects someone with multiple tourist visas is working illegally.

 

The OP says he has foreign bank statements and plastic so in my opinion, that looks more in line with what the average, legitimate tourist will have.

 

Thanks for making me get my finger out, do some research and bust a personal misconception.

[Scott]

A few troll posts and replies removed.   Stop with the baiting and arguing or find yourself on a suspension.  

[hawker9000]

15 hours ago, JackThompson said:

I had a very extensive "exit interview" at the Poipet/Aranya crossing.  I was not asked to show any evidence of my finances (though I had it).  All was handled in a civil manner - no rude comments, as some have reported coming from IOs at airports.  I did not deny that my travels outside of Thailand included the purpose of obtaining new Tourist Visas. 

 

I never used an airport or Poipet after that, was here most of the time for another 2 years, and I never had any more questions.

 

It is the IOs who are not following the law who are "gaming" something - not people following the laws.  Is a person "gaming" when they don't walk through dangerous neighborhoods full of drug-addicts at night?  "Lawless areas" are dangerous - you never know what could happen where laws are not followed or enforced.  When people in official uniforms are the ones not following the laws, it is an even more dangerous situation, having frightening implications for everyone's fragile, annual "permit of stay" renewals.

 

I suggest having a "Plan B" in case The Laws Are Amended by Ministerial Order.  That would be the legitimate (civil-society) way to handle any changes regarding those staying here longer-periods of time on Tourist Visas.  Hopefully, at least 90-days warning would be part of such changes.

"It is the IOs who are not following the law"

 

LOL   And your point is???   You DO realize that the person standing in front of the IO does NOT get a vote, right?   (And I'm sure IOs just LOVE legal advice and lectures from the arrivals.)  

 

And actually, using a particular type of visa for any purpose other than that for which it is intended, IS illegal.  And a tourist visa is not intended for permanent residence (duh).

 

 

Like I said boys & girls, bad advice, really bad advice...  And from someone who's simply gotten away with it himself so far and is in denial himself.

 

 

[ubonjoe]

This topic just became about 4 pages shorter after I removed a bunch of baiting and bickering posts between a few members. Time to end it or formal warnings will be given,

[JackThompson]

9 hours ago, hawker9000 said:

"It is the IOs who are not following the law"  LOL   And your point is???   You DO realize that the person standing in front of the IO does NOT get a vote, right?   (And I'm sure IOs just LOVE legal advice and lectures from the arrivals.)  

I would never suggest pointlessly arguing with an IO.  The best one can do is show they have money and incoming funds - proof of which may be ignored, or not.  If an IO (and/or supervisor) don't believe in following "The Law," trying to demonstrate one's compliance with "The Law" is pointless.

 

Power is not always coincident with Law.  IOs have "The Power" at a checkpoint, and if they don't believe in following "The Law" as written, arguing would only make them angry and more likely to use that Power to hurt you.  The strategy, in such situations, is to do your best to escape a lawless-zone with minimum damage.

 

Quote

And actually, using a particular type of visa for any purpose other than that for which it is intended, IS illegal.  And a tourist visa is not intended for permanent residence (duh).

Permanent Residence is another thing - but I think you are referring to any one staying here on "long stay" visas or extensions - which max-out at 1 year "permission of stay."  Every year, you ask permission to stay another year, which can be denied - no matter if you have children here, etc. 

 

A Tourist Visa entry gives you 60-days "permission of stay," which can be extended for 30-days more.  After that, you must leave the country.  There is no prohibition on obtaining another Tourist Visa and returning, nor on doing this repeatedly.  A person with a valid Tourist Visa and 20K Baht cash in-hand is not attempting entry in violation of the law, unless entering for purposes of criminal activity including working illegally.

 

When I was using Tourist Visas, I always used them for exactly the purpose for which they were intended.  I went to the beach frequently, and engaged in other Tourist-type activities - eating-out, etc.  I did not take a Thai job, never overstayed, and paid my bills with foreign-sourced income, so was always in full-compliance with the law/rules pertaining to my permission of stay. 

I'm on a Non-O now, but none of that has changed - my "activity" here is indistinguishable from a Tourist, as would be the case for most on Retirement-based visas or extensions.

 

Quote

Like I said boys & girls, bad advice, really bad advice...  And from someone who's simply gotten away with it himself so far and is in denial himself.

There is no law or ministerial order stating limits on Tourist Visa use in terms of days-per-year or entries-per-year.  Clearly, those in authority could choose to create such limits if they desired to do so.  No one who is following the law is "getting away" with anything untoward.   OTOH, those denying entry to people on false-pretenses are doing something untoward.

Edited November 19, 2017 by JackThompson

[buick]

22 hours ago, Soneva said:

This is all very complicated. And maybe that’s a good thing because it has gotten me thinking about how to get a more suitable visa status.

 

i lived in thailand on visa exempt entries and then tourist visas for ten years.  just last year i turned 50 and got the non imm O for retirement.   i also spent at least 3 months in USA each year, usually on two different trips.  i was questioned once at bkk (airport) and told to use tourist visas.  now they are questioning people on tourist visas.  times have changed for sure.  i thought about the thai elite visa but preferred to use the funds for travel around the region and figured i could make it five more years (after my interview).  i don't think you'll make it 20 yrs.  at your age, you need to get the thai elite visa.  i don't think language classes are an option for a 20 yr period.  maybe a legal job of some sort might help but those are hard to come by.

 

i'm sure you can make it a few more years but might as well get the appropriate visa if you plan to be here for a long time.  i felt a little silly at the end of my visa run program.  always booking one way flights out (which i never planned to take), carrying the 20,000thb to show IO's, etc.. et...  was glad to get the non imm O.  i still travel alot and never in the country for longer than 90 days.  so i could still be doing the tourist visa thing but the clampdown has been to tough for me to deal with.

 

[SicTransit]

Every single thread about hiccups on arrival seems to attract righteous comments about the illegality of using tourist visas for residence purposes and lengthy discussions about the definition of “tourism”.

I hope posters saying that will realise one day that permanent residence implies much broader set of privileges than people carrying a tourist visa can ever expect. Social security, medical insurance, prospects for a citizenship to name a few. Hey, local prices even!

Thus, it’s preposterous to imply that staying in the country on legally obtained tourist visas for somewhat extended periods of time, just because you like the place and the people, not stealing jobs from local workforce, spending your own funds sourced from elsewhere and not breaking any written immigration laws is somehow illegal or “gaming” the system.

[Soneva]

So, I will likely continue with tourist visas for a period of time.

One poster above suggested occasionally going somewhere on vacation and then coming back with a 30 day visa exempt entry. Would that be advisable? i.e. would that interrupt they cycle of repeated SETVs, and then reduce the risk of scrutiny?

I know that I am breaking no laws, because each of my entries actually does fit the exact description of what a tourist would be able to do. I stay here in my family’s home, also stay in hotels and resorts throughout Thailand, and used foreign sourced money from ATM withdrawals and foreign credit cards to pay for things.

I have never received one baht in compensation for any kind of employment in Thailand without an appropriate visa and work permit.

So, I will continue to do as I have been, and will hurry to get the Thailand Elite visa if a “big problem” comes up. The Thailand Elite visa is my long term goal. At my age 20 years of that would make me nearly 55 years old when it ran out. At that point I would hope to own property and/or have enough invested enough to have a proper “retirement” visa, or even Thai citizenship if I meet the requirements financially and otherwise.


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[darrendsd]

4 hours ago, Soneva said:

So, I will likely continue with tourist visas for a period of time.

One poster above suggested occasionally going somewhere on vacation and then coming back with a 30 day visa exempt entry. Would that be advisable? i.e. would that interrupt they cycle of repeated SETVs, and then reduce the risk of scrutiny?

I know that I am breaking no laws, because each of my entries actually does fit the exact description of what a tourist would be able to do. I stay here in my family’s home, also stay in hotels and resorts throughout Thailand, and used foreign sourced money from ATM withdrawals and foreign credit cards to pay for things.

I have never received one baht in compensation for any kind of employment in Thailand without an appropriate visa and work permit.

So, I will continue to do as I have been, and will hurry to get the Thailand Elite visa if a “big problem” comes up. The Thailand Elite visa is my long term goal. At my age 20 years of that would make me nearly 55 years old when it ran out. At that point I would hope to own property and/or have enough invested enough to have a proper “retirement” visa, or even Thai citizenship if I meet the requirements financially and otherwise.


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Stick to Laos and use the land crossings there and unless things dramatically change in the future you will be fine

 

Take the advice you have been given about the "red stamp" when you receive it

 

Forget a lot of the advice you have been given by some posters who think they know everything about Immigration laws and rules and stick to the advice you are being given by posters who actually have first hand experience of staying here longterm using TV's 

 

Always read Thai Visa for any future changes

 

If you stick to the above you will be ok

[hawker9000]

8 hours ago, SicTransit said:

Every single thread about hiccups on arrival seems to attract righteous comments about the illegality of using tourist visas for residence purposes and lengthy discussions about the definition of “tourism”.

I hope posters saying that will realise one day that permanent residence implies much broader set of privileges than people carrying a tourist visa can ever expect. Social security, medical insurance, prospects for a citizenship to name a few. Hey, local prices even!

Thus, it’s preposterous to imply that staying in the country on legally obtained tourist visas for somewhat extended periods of time, just because you like the place and the people, not stealing jobs from local workforce, spending your own funds sourced from elsewhere and not breaking any written immigration laws is somehow illegal or “gaming” the system.

It's both.

[BritTim]

2 hours ago, bkkcanuck8 said:

After a formal denial (at the Airport) - you are held in IDC until you buy a ticket out of the country on a limited number of airlines which more or likely will return you to your country that issued your passport. The reason why the airlines and destinations are limited is because of the domino effect that happens after you have been rejected from one country.  

Actually, denied entry is less of a problem than deportation (and they are treated differently). After denied entry, while the airline that brought you to Thailand has the responsibility (unless you relieve them of it) for taking you back to your last exit point, if you want to buy a ticket elsewhere, there is no obligation to inform the new airline about your status. With deportation, IATA regulations mandate that the airline is informed in advance and usually, if they are not your national airline) they will refuse to carry you.

[elviajero]

12 hours ago, Soneva said:

One poster above suggested occasionally going somewhere on vacation and then coming back with a 30 day visa exempt entry. Would that be advisable? i.e. would that interrupt they cycle of repeated SETVs, and then reduce the risk of scrutiny?

Using visa exempt entry is the last thing you should do. Your chances of being denied entry would increase. Whenever you can enter with at least a Tourist Visa.

 

12 hours ago, Soneva said:

At my age 20 years

That is your biggest problem. There aren't many 20 year olds that can live in a foreign country year after year without working. That will be the suspicion an IO would have and the likely reason for any future denied entry.

 

12 hours ago, Soneva said:

So, I will continue to do as I have been, and will hurry to get the Thailand Elite visa if a “big problem” comes up.

That's the right thing to do. Expect the worst and have a plan B.

Edited November 20, 2017 by elviajero

[Tanoshi]

32 minutes ago, elviajero said:

That is your biggest problem. There aren't many 20 year olds that can live in a foreign country year after year without working. That will be the suspicion an IO would have and the likely reason for any future denied entry.

I think the OP is around 35 years old, but your statement still stands.

[elviajero]

7 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

I think the OP is around 35 years old, but your statement still stands.

You're right. I misread the post!

[JackThompson]

14 hours ago, Soneva said:

So, I will likely continue with tourist visas for a period of time.

No legal reason not to - just avoid unfriendly points of entry.

 

14 hours ago, Soneva said:

One poster above suggested occasionally going somewhere on vacation and then coming back with a 30 day visa exempt entry. Would that be advisable? i.e. would that interrupt they cycle of repeated SETVs, and then reduce the risk of scrutiny?

I see no advantage to putting yourself at the whims of an immigration officer, since Visa Exempts are granted solely at their discretion.  There are additional written rules governing Visa-Exempt use which do not apply to tourist visas.  Another poster quoted many of them, earlier in this thread.  Those would apply, if you tried to enter Visa-Exempt. 

 

That said, most land-borders are now more friendly with Visa-Exempts, provided you do not have 2 yet in a calendar year.

 

14 hours ago, Soneva said:

I know that I am breaking no laws, because each of my entries actually does fit the exact description of what a tourist would be able to do. I stay here in my family’s home, also stay in hotels and resorts throughout Thailand, and used foreign sourced money from ATM withdrawals and foreign credit cards to pay for things.

You are 100% correct.  If entering with a valid Tourist Visa and following that pattern, you are not breaking any laws or written rules - and are Helping Thailand's Economy by doing this.

[Soneva]

That's the right thing to do. Expect the worst and have a plan B.

I am in my 30s, what I said was that the 20 year Elite Visa would make me nearly 55 at the time of its its expiry if I get it soon. Meaning that it could take care of all of my worries until I am ready to have a different visa status, or even citizenship if I qualified for it.

I am not going to expect “the worst” — I expect and hope for the best! But, I will be prepared to the best of my ability to reduce the likelihood of a major inconvenience.


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[ChomDo]

15 hours ago, SicTransit said:

Every single thread about hiccups on arrival seems to attract righteous comments about the illegality of using tourist visas for residence purposes and lengthy discussions about the definition of “tourism”.

I hope posters saying that will realise one day that permanent residence implies much broader set of privileges than people carrying a tourist visa can ever expect. Social security, medical insurance, prospects for a citizenship to name a few. Hey, local prices even!

Thus, it’s preposterous to imply that staying in the country on legally obtained tourist visas for somewhat extended periods of time, just because you like the place and the people, not stealing jobs from local workforce, spending your own funds sourced from elsewhere and not breaking any written immigration laws is somehow illegal or “gaming” the system.

Great point! Totally agree. Until they can come up with smarter visa types to suit a wider range of people, we will continue living here on SETV's and exempts or dodgy ED visas if that's what it takes. 

[Soneva]

You probably should not try Vientiane again until ready to replace your passport.
 
There is an art to avoiding red stamps. Part of it is knowing which consulates only consider previous visas they issued (Vientiane, for instance) and those who consider all tourist visas issued in the region (I think Penang now falls into that category).
 
Based on recent reports, you should be safe with 2 from Hong Kong, 2 from HCMC, 1 or 2 from Hanoi, 2 from Yangon and unlimited numbers from Savannakhet.

If anyone has experience, how are Kuala Lumpur, Singapore, Phnom Penh, Tokyo, and Manila? I am thinking in terms of ease of getting SETV.

Also there is a lot of discussion about friendly/lawful vs unfriendly border crossings. What are the particularly good ones? Most importantly which are best avoided.

I will inevitably continue to use BKK from cities from which it is impractical to return by land, but will take a break from it for at least one trip and then see how it goes.

Also, is there anything wrong with obtaining the SETV in one country, but then crossing the land boarder from Laos into Thailand? This may happen if, for example, I combined Hanoi and Luang Prabang on a trip.

I make these trips into vacations, so where I want to go and what I want to see along the way are also factors for me.


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[ChomDo]

1 hour ago, JackThompson said:

One poster above suggested occasionally going somewhere on vacation and then coming back with a 30 day visa exempt entry. Would that be advisable? i.e. would that interrupt they cycle of repeated SETVs, and then reduce the risk of scrutiny?

That's what I've been doing and haven't had any troubles for the past 5 years (and before that I had long term ED visa for a university). The trips I make in between SETV's are not quick 1-2 runs to the closest South-East Asian cities. Like now I'm on a SETV that I obtained in Europe this summer. It expires next week and I'll be going to Japan for 10 days. Last time I went to Taipei and sometimes it could be a 2 week holiday in Australia. I try to make most of the times that I'm forced to leave the country, so it doesn't always feel like just a meaningless visa run trip. I'm just guessing that the way I do it, can perhaps prove to the immigration officers that I'm not working in a company here (if that's the thing they care about the most, not sure about that). 

[JLCrab]

16 hours ago, SicTransit said:

<snip> ... not stealing jobs from local workforce, spending your own funds sourced from elsewhere and not breaking any written immigration laws is somehow illegal or “gaming” the system. <Snip2>

So is that to imply that you actually have a job, just that it is not a job that deprives some Thai person of a job, but that the funds in remuneration of your job come from ex-Thailand?

[jimster]

On 11/18/2017 at 12:21 AM, JackThompson said:

Is this a recent change and/or do you have a source for this? 

I think it's just his opinion. Banks can and do open account for tourists - at least the main branches located in tourist areas and the head offices, located in Bangkok. There is also no good reason for disallowing it, or for assuming that it will "work against you". It's a requirement to open a Thai bank account to show you have sufficient funds if you are planning to stay in Thailand on a marriage or retirement visa. Usually someone starts out on a tourist visa (or exemption) before they go through the stage of converting their status to marriage or retirement inside the country. Having foreign sourced money in a foreign account complicates matters - it requires visits to your embassy and there's always a possibility an immigration officer won't accept it and say: "money must be in a Thai bank account".

[jimster]

1 hour ago, JackThompson said:

No legal reason not to - just avoid unfriendly points of entry.

 

I see no advantage to putting yourself at the whims of an immigration officer, since Visa Exempts are granted solely at their discretion.  There are additional written rules governing Visa-Exempt use which do not apply to tourist visas.  Another poster quoted many of them, earlier in this thread.  Those would apply, if you tried to enter Visa-Exempt. 

 

That said, most land-borders are now more friendly with Visa-Exempts, provided you do not have 2 yet in a calendar year.

 

You are 100% correct.  If entering with a valid Tourist Visa and following that pattern, you are not breaking any laws or written rules - and are Helping Thailand's Economy by doing this.

Agree. As you say, land borders are better - the best way to cross a Thai land border is by car, for which there is a separate lane (at many borders) compared to arrivals coming on foot or by bus. As long as you haven't exceeded your two visa-free trips per year (in which case the country you are exiting from shouldn't allow you to proceed to Thailand, that's their job) and you have a valid visa (including a tourist visa) you'll be stamped in no problems. Aside from traveling by car (which is not an option for everyone, as not everyone has a car) going by bus on one of the many international bus services between Thailand and neighboring countries is the next best option. It's unlikely you would be taken off a bus at a land border if they allow you to board it in the first place (they are supposed to check your passport and visa status).

 

International bus services connect Hat Yai with Penang/Kuala Lumpur and Singapore, Bangkok with Siem Reap/Phnom Penh (some services are also operated by minivans), Bangkok with Pakse/Vientiane; Chiang Mai with Luang Prabang, Chiang Rai with Huay Xai (Bokeo) and Luang Prabang (the latter is the same bus that originates in Chiang Mai), Khon Kaen/Udon Thani/Nong Khai with Vientiane (each served by separate bus services multiple times daily), Mukdahan with Savannakhet, Nakorn Phanom with Tha Khaek (Muang Khammouane), Ubon Ratchathani with Pakse, Nan with Luang Prabang via Saiyabuli (brand new service), Loei with Luang Luang Prabang and finally Udon Thani with Vang Vieng via Nong Khai (usually on a micro-bus, which is larger than a minivan but smaller than a normal bus).