You are Going to Die – Are You Ready

[Bluespunk]

You're born, you live, you die.

 

Enjoy the middle bit.

 

The other two take care of themselves.

[thaibeachlovers]

26 minutes ago, transam said:

No, that is life and life expiration...Humans ain't special, we live and die.End of our planet "creatures" story..

In the cosmic scheme of things we are an insignificant speck of nothingness, and the entirety of human existence will be nothing more than a blink during the life of the universe.

However, I'm not insignificant to myself, and while I exist I want to be happy and in control.

[Odysseus123]

19 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

You're born, you live, you die.

 

Enjoy the middle bit.

 

The other two take care of themselves.

Yes,indeed.

 

However the Western view that life is linear and somehow "progressive" -an essential part of materialism-leads to a yawning chasm between expectations and rewards especially at the end as one's own personal biological catastrophe sets in.

 

Hence the need for the ultimate reward of "eternal" life.

Edited March 21, 2018 by Odysseus123

[transam]

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

In the cosmic scheme of things we are an insignificant speck of nothingness, and the entirety of human existence will be nothing more than a blink during the life of the universe.

However, I'm not insignificant to myself, and while I exist I want to be happy and in control.

For sure, I am a prime example......

[thaibeachlovers]

18 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

You're born, you live, you die.

 

Enjoy the middle bit.

 

The other two take care of themselves.

It's not the dying that worries me ( it's inevitable ), it's the manner of my death that does. 

A pill, unconsciousness and oblivion would be preferable to a stroke followed by years of degeneration.

[Odysseus123]

7 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

It's not the dying that worries me ( it's inevitable ), it's the manner of my death that does. 

A pill, unconsciousness and oblivion would be preferable to a stroke followed by years of degeneration.

That's the thing..death really doesn't take care of itself nowadays.

 

Hence I rather admired the Thai practice (in my neck of the woods) of taking their family/loved ones home to die.

 

Everyone appeared to be somehow involved in the (life)process.

 

Better than being dumped in a nursing home for ten years.

Edited March 21, 2018 by Odysseus123
grammar

[thaibeachlovers]

Just now, Odysseus123 said:

That's the thing..death really doesn't take care of itself nowadays.

 

Hence I rather admired the Thai practice (in my neck of the woods) of taking their family/loved ones home to die.

 

Everyone appears to be somehow involved in the (life)process.

 

Better than being dumped in a nursing home for ten years.

While I understand your point, as a generalisation, that's never been an option for me.

Even if I were still married, I realised after my m'bike accident I could not rely on her to care for me while I was dying. Her family wouldn't lift the proverbial finger. They won't even care for her, so she has already found a place to stay at once she gets too old.

It'd be lovely to be married to a wonderful Thai family that cared for us as if we were their own, but not all will find that family to come with the wife.

I'm probably lucky that I even have the option of state provided care facilities, if I live that long.

[Odysseus123]

6 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

While I understand your point, as a generalisation, that's never been an option for me.

Even if I were still married, I realised after my m'bike accident I could not rely on her to care for me while I was dying. Her family wouldn't lift the proverbial finger. They won't even care for her, so she has already found a place to stay at once she gets too old.

It'd be lovely to be married to a wonderful Thai family that cared for us as if we were their own, but not all will find that family to come with the wife.

I'm probably lucky that I even have the option of state provided care facilities, if I live that long.

Yes,but I fear that we might wander off topic here.

 

I was really thinking of Thai/Thai relationships.

 

Introducing "foreigners" into the mix can be quite problematic-as you and I both know.

[manarak]

I will try my best to stay alive and in possession of my wits and physical abilities as long as possible.

 

I am only 44, but yes, I am ready to die when either my best wasn't enough to avoid bad luck or when I take the decision to trade my life in for a worthwhile result, and I can only imagine an issue related to my children or to many other peoples' lives for me to be ready to do such a thing.

 

I will try to stay around for helping my children as long as possible, at least as long as I am able to take influence on anything.

After that point, it won't really matter anymore.

 

My present opinion on the matter is quite different from my state of mind when I was younger. Somehow we grow up with the belief or the faint hope to be immortal, and for a long time in our young years, most peoples' consciousness/ego can't even conceive/accept that our own death is unavoidable.

I guess life starts killing you even before it's over. Marriage, divorce, children, death of older relatives, death of friends... every serious event brings death and its acceptance closer.

 

Life is lethal.

[soalbundy]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

70+ people only feel happy if they have enough money to live the life they want to.

Someone trying to survive on a pension and having to choose between the Dr and eating are not happy or content.

Otherwise, you are probably correct, though I'd certainly rather be 20 going on thirty than what I actually am.

Happiness is not an object that depends on its surroundings for its existence, it is a state of mind. One can be rich,young and miserable or old, impoverished, ill and happy. Many years of reading and listening to spiritual teachers have allowed me to become detached, not allowing external circumstances affect my state of mind is a blessing, the poem 'If' by Rudyard Kipling comes to mind where he wrote ;-

'If you can meet with triumph and disaster

and treat these two imposters just the same'

External circumstances can be uncomfortable, but they are imposters, your state of mind determines whether you let them rule you or not, the mind is a bad master but a good servant.

[soalbundy]

3 hours ago, MaeJoMTB said:

I didn't have that good a time in my 20s, was too busy working to have a life.

My 50s have been the best part of my life, and my 60s are just as good (so far).

 

Would you really want to run in the rat race again?

I'm thinking it's a lot harder now than it was when we were young.

Sure, I wouldn't want to be old and ill, but I wouldn't object to being dead.

(I'm hoping dead will come first)

It was Woody Allen who said, "I'm not afraid of death, I just don't want to be there when it happens"

[MaeJoMTB]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

It'd be lovely to be married to a wonderful Thai family that cared for us as if we were their own, but not all will find that family to come with the wife.

I've made my own family, don't need her (pre-existing) useless lot.

[The manic]

I've put 10k Sterling aside for booze for my funeral. Don't care about dieing just don't wanna die in pain and indignity. I'm being cremated and my ashes put in a rocket to explode at the cloud line. 

[The manic]

6 hours ago, soalbundy said:

Happiness is not an object that depends on its surroundings for its existence, it is a state of mind. One can be rich,young and miserable or old, impoverished, ill and happy. Many years of reading and listening to spiritual teachers have allowed me to become detached, not allowing external circumstances affect my state of mind is a blessing, the poem 'If' by Rudyard Kipling comes to mind where he wrote ;-

'If you can meet with triumph and disaster

and treat these two imposters just the same'

External circumstances can be uncomfortable, but they are imposters, your state of mind determines whether you let them rule you or not, the mind is a bad master but a good servant.

Humbug. If you were detached you would not be writing about it on this forum. 

" The man who knows all says nothing. "

Edited March 21, 2018 by The manic

[The manic]

8 hours ago, transam said:

For sure, I am a prime example......

We are molecules in a state of permanent evolution..

[soalbundy]

5 hours ago, The manic said:

Humbug. If you were detached you would not be writing about it on this forum. 

" The man who knows all says nothing. "

Detachment doesn't mean a lack of reacting, it makes a difference in how you react. When it rains I still open an umbrella but I don't complain about the rain.

[balo]

16 hours ago, transam said:

o, that is life and life expiration...Humans ain't special, we live and die.End of our planet "creatures" story..

But I believe we can change our expiration date with some minor adjustments.  No guarantees of course. 

 

 

 

[bannork]

1 hour ago, The manic said:

I've put 10k Sterling aside for booze for my funeral. Don't care about dieing just don't wanna die in pain and indignity. I'm being cremated and my ashes put in a rocket to explode at the cloud line. 

That's a lot of cash for the booze. Hopefully there will be some Johnnie Walker and Bordeaux Vintage 1959. Be a good sport The manic and let me know the time and place.

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎3‎/‎21‎/‎2018 at 4:32 PM, soalbundy said:

Happiness is not an object that depends on its surroundings for its existence, it is a state of mind. One can be rich,young and miserable or old, impoverished, ill and happy. Many years of reading and listening to spiritual teachers have allowed me to become detached, not allowing external circumstances affect my state of mind is a blessing, the poem 'If' by Rudyard Kipling comes to mind where he wrote ;-

'If you can meet with triumph and disaster

and treat these two imposters just the same'

External circumstances can be uncomfortable, but they are imposters, your state of mind determines whether you let them rule you or not, the mind is a bad master but a good servant.

You are talking about "Nirvana" and I'm pretty sure not many of us will ever reach that state.

I know that I never will.

My mother was really into all that stuff, so I'm well aware of it, but it's nothing more than words for most of us.

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎3‎/‎22‎/‎2018 at 5:10 AM, soalbundy said:

Detachment doesn't mean a lack of reacting, it makes a difference in how you react. When it rains I still open an umbrella but I don't complain about the rain.

Everything depends on circumstances. Best memories of one holiday I had in Krabi was sitting on the room's balcony with a lovely lady sitting on my knee while a tropical downpour passed overhead- I love watching the rain as it brings back that memory. Getting soaked by freezing rain in London, on the other hand, wasn't much fun at all.

I doubt if any would find anything to be detached about if one fell into the tiger pen at a zoo and the tiger had one's head in its mouth, after ripping one's arms off.

[Odysseus123]

15 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Everything depends on circumstances. Best memories of one holiday I had in Krabi was sitting on the room's balcony with a lovely lady sitting on my knee while a tropical downpour passed overhead- I love watching the rain as it brings back that memory. Getting soaked by freezing rain in London, on the other hand, wasn't much fun at all.

I doubt if any would find anything to be detached about if one fell into the tiger pen at a zoo and the tiger had one's head in its mouth, after ripping one's arms off.

Altho' if he had both of his arms ripped off he would be kinda "semi-detached" wouldn't he?

[soalbundy]

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Everything depends on circumstances. Best memories of one holiday I had in Krabi was sitting on the room's balcony with a lovely lady sitting on my knee while a tropical downpour passed overhead- I love watching the rain as it brings back that memory. Getting soaked by freezing rain in London, on the other hand, wasn't much fun at all.

I doubt if any would find anything to be detached about if one fell into the tiger pen at a zoo and the tiger had one's head in its mouth, after ripping one's arms off.

Let us not exaggerate,who wouldn't be scared shortly before being torn apart by a tiger. I can give you a practical example, The moment the lawyer told my partner and I that my estranged wife had caused 3 million Bahts worth of damage and that I would have to pay I remained calm and composed while my partner nearly collapsed. "It is the way it is and can't be any other way, accept it and stop arguing with it" I said to her in an effort to try and calm her down,she blew up and told me I had gone mad and went to the temple to speak with the abbot for comfort. She returned an hour later.

"What did the abbot say"

"He said it is the way it is"

"So? Did he say anything about acceptance?"

"Yes"

and then she started laughing,"I'm sorry, i forgot I was a Buddhist"

 

The mind makes the situation worse than it is, it will tell you all sorts of stories of disaster. I felt detached, it was just something happening and I was the space in which it was happening, it was something to observe not something to fear. I was  able to react calmly, I instructed the lawyer to convince my estranged wife to write over the ownership of the house I had built for her to my son and my partner,which she did, The money that I had saved for my sons university education was transferred to the damaged party and I was left with a debt of 200,000Baht but I had control of the first house I had built. Using the deeds of this house my partner got a loan from the bank, more than we needed so we could now start rice farming again on the more than 200 rai of land that my partner owns. With some good fortune we will receive more than the damages payed out within a few years and we have the house back, it may have been a blessing in disguise. One just has to trust life,it has been looking after us all this time after all. Things happen,don't confuse bad things with disaster, it is just the dance of life, join in until the music stops.

[thaibeachlovers]

2 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

I can give you a practical example, The moment the lawyer told my partner and I that my estranged wife had caused 3 million Bahts worth of damage and that I would have to pay I remained calm and composed while my partner nearly collapsed. "It is the way it is and can't be any other way, accept it and stop arguing with it" I said to her in an effort to try and calm her down,she blew up and told me I had gone mad and went to the temple to speak with the abbot for comfort. She returned an hour later.

"What did the abbot say"

"He said it is the way it is"

"So? Did he say anything about acceptance?"

"Yes"

and then she started laughing,"I'm sorry, i forgot I was a Buddhist"

I'd be the partner and no monkish comfort would calm me down.

 

As I said, my mother was very much into all that side of life and I did a lot of reading about it.

Plenty of excellent books to read along the lines of "The Road Less Traveled", which even if I didn't adopt as a way of life, held many tips on how to live a better life.

 

However, one has to be pretty committed to pursue that lifestyle, and I wasn't. Besides, I was too busy working and living my life to be able to spend that much energy on something I wasn't convinced about.

It didn't even make my mother happy. She married the wrong man just to get married ( despite living with a man that would have made her happy- he just wouldn't get married again ), lost her one true friend to illness and never got over it; and got sick and died because her life choice distrusted medical treatments and preferred witchdoctors.

 

I suppose if I could be detached about my "friends" back stabbing me and stealing from me, living with and marrying the wrong women and losing too much twice in my life, working for bullies, getting sick and having surgery that mutilated me and destroyed my physical life, I might be happier, but it wouldn't make my life better.

[soalbundy]

49 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

You are talking about "Nirvana" and I'm pretty sure not many of us will ever reach that state.

I know that I never will.

My mother was really into all that stuff, so I'm well aware of it, but it's nothing more than words for most of us.

I don't think that is nirvana,I wouldn't call myself 'enlightened' whatever that may be, it has to do more with logic in an awakened sort of way if I can use that term. It was Shakespeare who said, "Nothing is good or bad,only thinking makes it so" and that is true, the little 'me',the ego, thrives on disaster, on judgement, on being right, on a sense of being treated unjustly, on resisting what is, it is the reason for its existence, it needs the sense of being in control but the little me is neither 'being' nor is it in control and never was, not at its conception, birth or death. I agree with some neuroscientists that consciousness is nonlocal although they have their opponents. This would mean you have absolutely no control, what happens, happens and it happens because there is no other way possible, all that remains is to align yourself with this consciousness by acceptance of what is,that brings peace but of course the little 'me' won't accept that and until one has learned to turn it off there will be internal conflict.

[soalbundy]

6 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I'd be the partner and no monkish comfort would calm me down.

 

As I said, my mother was very much into all that side of life and I did a lot of reading about it.

Plenty of excellent books to read along the lines of "The Road Less Traveled", which even if I didn't adopt as a way of life, held many tips on how to live a better life.

 

However, one has to be pretty committed to pursue that lifestyle, and I wasn't. Besides, I was too busy working and living my life to be able to spend that much energy on something I wasn't convinced about.

It didn't even make my mother happy. She married the wrong man just to get married ( despite living with a man that would have made her happy- he just wouldn't get married again ), lost her one true friend to illness and never got over it; and got sick and died because her life choice distrusted medical treatments and preferred witchdoctors.

 

I suppose if I could be detached about my "friends" back stabbing me and stealing from me, living with and marrying the wrong women and losing too much twice in my life, working for bullies, getting sick and having surgery that mutilated me and destroyed my physical life, I might be happier, but it wouldn't make my life better.

It would make your life better if situations were accepted as being what they are, internal resistance,arguing with what is causes suffering. I suppose one could say either change a bad situation,remove yourself from it and if you cant do either then accept it.

[thaibeachlovers]

6 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

"Nothing is good or bad,only thinking makes it so"

No disagreement there, but I could never make my brain make anything good out of something bad.

[The manic]

On 3/22/2018 at 5:10 AM, soalbundy said:

Detachment doesn't mean a lack of reacting, it makes a difference in how you react. When it rains I still open an umbrella but I don't complain about the rain.

Actually detachment does mean lack reaction, care or concern. Anyway rain and death are hardly synonymous. However, I am pleased for you and your detachment from reality. 

[soalbundy]

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

No disagreement there, but I could never make my brain make anything good out of something bad.

It is all a question of patience. Bad is what the mind says but the mind was never a good consultant it has its own agenda and baggage that goes back years. Losing a well paid job could be called bad but it may lead you to a lesser paid job that you enjoy, instead of appreciating that, the mind may continue to say it was bad because I now get less money, enjoyment doesn't come into the equation for the mind because the ego is fixated on status. Being homeless for a while could be a cause for a change in empathy for others and for an appreciation for a new found life situation in better times but the mind wont find any satisfaction with that,it will still refer to this past as a disaster not as a teaching to be embraced.

[soalbundy]

3 minutes ago, The manic said:

Actually detachment does mean lack reaction, care or concern. Anyway rain and death are hardly synonymous. However, I am pleased for you and your detachment from reality. 

I mean detachment from the meaning for the little 'me' of the situation, perhaps we need another word for it, calm acceptance of what is without any internal dialogue, whether the situation is good or bad, accepting winning a million Baht with the same calmness as losing it.

 

Rain and death are the same, they are both out of our control and the experience of both ends sooner or later. My personal belief (that means of course 'not knowing') is that death is the end of the conscious manifestation of the unit 'me' the consciousness that guided this manifestation,the true essence of the unit, returns to its source (without the me) the one universal consciousness, that we all and everything else share, that was never born nor will ever die,the manifestations whether they be humanity, a tree, a rock or a planet are just part of the dance, beautiful but transient. 

[Odysseus123]

39 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

I mean detachment from the meaning for the little 'me' of the situation, perhaps we need another word for it, calm acceptance of what is without any internal dialogue, whether the situation is good or bad, accepting winning a million Baht with the same calmness as losing it.

 

Rain and death are the same, they are both out of our control and the experience of both ends sooner or later. My personal belief (that means of course 'not knowing') is that death is the end of the conscious manifestation of the unit 'me' the consciousness that guided this manifestation,the true essence of the unit, returns to its source (without the me) the one universal consciousness, that we all and everything else share, that was never born nor will ever die,the manifestations whether they be humanity, a tree, a rock or a planet are just part of the dance, beautiful but transient. 

"..just part of the dance..."

 

Beautifully put and your post reminded me of this song.."Breaths"