Engagement and sin sod

[Destiny1990]

2 hours ago, smotherb said:

Same archaic logic; to take care of the poor little thing, if the farang is the pitcher/dominant partner. However, if the farang is the catcher/weaker partner,  I think he should ask for sin sot

Yeah however I don't recall even once that a thai gay paid sin sod to the farang gay but would be nice for a change.

[alien365]

21 minutes ago, ToddinChonburi said:

I always wonder how many little village boys can pay this.  Along comes faring , Thai custom is stop !!  You are getting married to a non Thai I think your sin did just flew out the window.   Why do Farangs fall for this money grab.  Really what will be her contribution to the home and life style ?   Like someone else pointed out,  tell her western culture the bride's family pays for the wedding.

By doing this you are effectively saying that our culture does it the correct way and their's the wrong way. As we're talking about cross cultural relationships its down to each couple to decide which cultures rules to follow. I didn't pay any sinsot as I didn't feel it was fair and my wife didn't want our marriage to be about money, but I don't hold anything against others who wish to respect their wife to be's wishes if they were different.

[richard_smith237]

9 minutes ago, alien365 said:

By doing this you are effectively saying that our culture does it the correct way and their's the wrong way. As we're talking about cross cultural relationships its down to each couple to decide which cultures rules to follow. I didn't pay any sinsot as I didn't feel it was fair and my wife didn't want our marriage to be about money, but I don't hold anything against others who wish to respect their wife to be's wishes if they were different.

 

I think this is a healthy and balanced approach.

 

Some guys are clearly getting ripped off. For others they have to decide which parts of the culture they will go with and where culture and expectations will meet in the middle. There are no hard and fast rules with the exception that respect must be mutual for any of this malarkey to ever be successful... 

[sead]

A 37 year old woman that let her mother boss around and ask for sinsod. Thats the biggest problem.... her mother is the one whos going to make all decisions. If mother says leave him shes going to do that.

Who came up with the idea to marry and why do you need to do that. You save yourself alot of problems simple by staying unmarried.

keep paying her some small salary for family to be taken care of. Go and look for a condo to rent instead of moving in. You dont pay sinsod for a 37 year old woman. She and her family should see this as a jackpot to even get her married at her age! The chances that she already has been married and have grownup kids is really big. And yes, Issan people lie for money. 

Edited November 23, 2017 by sead

[jerojero]

What ceremony? No such thing typical in Thailand. Often combined with village marriage ceremony.

Sent from my SM-G950W using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[wildewillie89]

14 hours ago, Rc2702 said:

There is a thaivisa style forum for thai women? I'd love to know the name I can tell my Mrs about it. Please advise.

There are various forums and also many Facebook pages purely about everything farang for Thai women. I dont know the names as I don't use them, but the Mrs has shown me many/wouldn't be hard to find.

 

Things like general advice/experiences, how much money partner gives each month, which country is best to marry in terms of personality, similar topics and ridiculous generalisations just like this forum lol. 

 

There are even pages that women can post photos of their partners or guys they are thinking about entering a relationship with to check if they are really single or not.

[wildewillie89]

2 hours ago, sead said:

A 37 year old woman that let her mother boss around and ask for sinsod. Thats the biggest problem.... her mother is the one whos going to make all decisions. If mother says leave him shes going to do that.

Who came up with the idea to marry and why do you need to do that. You save yourself alot of problems simple by staying unmarried.

keep paying her some small salary for family to be taken care of. Go and look for a condo to rent instead of moving in. You dont pay sinsod for a 37 year old woman. She and her family should see this as a jackpot to even get her married at her age! The chances that she already has been married and have grownup kids is really big. And yes, Issan people lie for money. 

She is a nurse, so possibly an official. If marry then free health cover for OP, she can get her own loans, and get a pension until she dies. 

 

Even if not an official, the middle class often will not continue the relationship if it isn't going anywhere, ie no chance of ever marrying in the future. They make their own money, so they see it more as a friends with benefits rather than making it an a real type thing. 

 

Her age isn't relevant to sin sord as she is educated, has a job and is middle class. So in terms of a Thai guy, he would still be paying sin sord. My Thai uncle is about to marry a 42 year old official, the parents don't want it so will give it back but they still will go through the ceremony due to her job. 

 

He should not pay purely due to a compromise of cultures, give in to some beliefs and not others. Not because people think make ignorant generalisations that Isaan people are girls who all had teen pregnancies. 

Edited November 23, 2017 by wildewillie89

[1FinickyOne]

20 hours ago, smotherb said:

Certainly, if you think sin sot is a bar fine.

Sure I paid a bar fine and they gave me breakfast at the restaurant. Every time you pay money it does not have to equate to a bar fine. You are very cynical. I have given much more than the sin sot since the wedding fifteen years ago. And it has been at my pleasure. For some of us we have learned that there is nothing that feels better than helping others. Deserving others, of course. 

[smotherb]

20 minutes ago, kenk24 said:

Sure I paid a bar fine and they gave me breakfast at the restaurant. Every time you pay money it does not have to equate to a bar fine. You are very cynical. I have given much more than the sin sot since the wedding fifteen years ago. And it has been at my pleasure. For some of us we have learned that there is nothing that feels better than helping others. Deserving others, of course. 

So, I commonly get invited to breakfast, without even paying a bar fine. You seem to be taking this personally when I have only stated my opinion. What's the matter, does it make sense? Is it getting to you, are you having second thoughts? If you really feel the way you say, why is my opinion such an issue with you?

 

I am cynical? You ask if every time I pay money, is it a bar fine? Are you serious, are you that naive? I see paying money for a wife as a bar fine. You seem to insinuate that I do not help others. How do you draw that conclusion when I simply will not pay the parents for a wife? You need to sit down and think this over. Someone having a different opinion than you should not elicit this venom from you unless you are in the closet on this issue.

Edited November 24, 2017 by smotherb

[1FinickyOne]

2 hours ago, smotherb said:

So, I commonly get invited to breakfast, without even paying a bar fine. You seem to be taking this personally when I have only stated my opinion. What's the matter, does it make sense? Is it getting to you, are you having second thoughts? If you really feel the way you say, why is my opinion such an issue with you?

 

I am cynical? You ask if every time I pay money, is it a bar fine? Are you serious, are you that naive? I see paying money for a wife as a bar fine. You seem to insinuate that I do not help others. How do you draw that conclusion when I simply will not pay the parents for a wife? You need to sit down and think this over. Someone having a different opinion than you should not elicit this venom from you unless you are in the closet on this issue.

Why are you accusing me of venom? I am also voicing my opinion. You get defensive quite easily. Calm down cowboy. Your comments equating paying a bar and paying sin sod don't add up to me, but follows along with your typical comments which are at times demeaning to women. 

 

Every culture has different customs as you well know. Some places the women pay and then die in kitchen fires. I paid sin sod and have received kindness and respect in exchange. You pay a bar fine and get to rent a new car smell. We all choose how we spend our money.

[smotherb]

57 minutes ago, kenk24 said:

Why are you accusing me of venom? I am also voicing my opinion. You get defensive quite easily. Calm down cowboy. Your comments equating paying a bar and paying sin sod don't add up to me, but follows along with your typical comments which are at times demeaning to women. 

 

Every culture has different customs as you well know. Some places the women pay and then die in kitchen fires. I paid sin sod and have received kindness and respect in exchange. You pay a bar fine and get to rent a new car smell. We all choose how we spend our money.

My typical comments are demeaning to women? You are the one who insists they must be bought. I cast no aspersion at women, I show disdain for a medieval custom which in itself is demeaning to women.

 

I am well aware of varying cultures; in fact, cultural difference is my complaint with sin sot.  The Thais are changing their opinions of sin sot. Did you not read my first post on this subject? I have talked sin sot with several Thais and to my in-laws when my son was married. I think your opinions and experiences are antiquated. Neither my son nor I paid sin sot for my daughter-in-law and I get along very well with my in-laws. In fact, we are going to their house for dinner tonight, and the father and I are going out to see some of his buddies who raise bulls tomorrow.

 

There you go with that venom again, you say, "You pay a bar fine and get to rent a new car smell." First, I am happily married for almost 40 years and I am very satisfied with my attractive, intelligent, capable and productive younger wife.  Consequently, I do not pay bar fines. Furthermore, one rarely gets that new car smell from a bar girl; it comes with a virgin.

 

Yes, we do all choose the way we spend our money; you choose to buy a wife, I do not.

[MyFriend You]

Wait...........is this 100K Baht???, if so, this has to be the smallest sin sod I have ever read about, if its $100,000 in USD  then I would look at this with a jaundiced eye.  Ask to see the birth certificate of the niece, it may be her daughter - I had the wool pulled over my eyes once a long time ago where the apple of my eye's, younger brother was actually her son she had when she was thirteen, it came out as a complete accident by her real brother who called him his nephew............Baby brothers turn out to be sons, & Big Brothers (Pee Chai's)turn out to be boyfriends all the time in Thailand..............just saying.   Good Luck

[wildewillie89]

I used to see it as something like a bar fine. But now I just see it as a ridiculous practice to keep class structures together. The poor will never be able to afford the rich. 

 

Even Thai society is slowly starting to move forward, so yes, many do not worry about sin sord anymore. Rural/more cultural areas may worry about the actual ceremony, but should not actually keep the money in 2017 (especially if farang as should compromise on culture).

 

It's no surprise that education, family name, career, previous relationships etc are the criteria. Even if people do pay sin sord, which is completely fine as it is their lives after all, if you do it for 'cultural' reasons then surely you should go by the same criteria as a Thai man would. So if a non educated woman, with previously relationship and no real job is asking for big money in Thai terms, then alarm bells should probably ring. But again, some people like to give and that's fine, but you're not giving for sin sord or any cultural reason, you're just giving in general. 

 

Personally, I know a few Thai guys in a lot of debt from previous marriages purely due to sin sord. I also know many who cannot commit to marry yet as they don't have sin sord. Families see these issues as stupid these days, hence the gradual shift away from sin sord. 

 

I think if a discussion can't even be had to not do sin sord in 2017 it probably rings alarm bells. More and more people are not doing it and their are full proof ways around it in all areas (ie marry in a church). Most working Thai women will tell your it's their responsibility to look after their parents, you have your own parents to look after. 

Edited November 25, 2017 by wildewillie89

[6thST]

On 11/20/2017 at 3:21 AM, swissie said:

If the lady was not married before and has no kids, theoretically "sin sod" would have to come into play. (not so, if the Lady was married before with kids).

"Sin sod" is only due upon marriage. Not before.

- As you descibe it, the required "sin sod" appears to be symbolic (the funds to be returned to you after the ceremony=marriage). It would be a traditional ritual, very much practised in modern day Thailand (upholding tradition).

How to go about it? Tell the Lady that you know about Thai-Customs and are absolutely willing to go along with it and don't forget to mention that the "sin-sod" returned to you, will eventually (after marriage) find it's way back to her/you/family one way or the other.

"Mum" probably just wants to see if you have 100K beforehand. Show her your suit case full of bank notes or show her your latests bank-statement.
Cheers.

My advice run for the hills... her Mother will be to involved in this marriage and always have her hand out. 

[Coconut007]

I'm glad that my gf doesn't want a Thai wedding but western one... if we happen to get married

[hawker9000]

Am aware (from a distance) of a situation in which the girl was pure gold but the mom was a demon from hell.  But even in the absence of that awareness, I can't fathom REALLY wanting to move in with mom (I can't even imagine wanting to set up housekeeping within less than a day's drive!).  Then again, I can't imagine contemplating marriage in any situation where there's an element of doubt causing me to want to go online to see what strangers think.   It sounds like money isn't really much of a concern for you at this time, but I'm going to suggest that a year or two down the road, after the marriage is underway and "contemplation" has turned to a daily reality, non-concerns involving money (as well as others, including the in-laws) can easily morph into something that transforms the relationship, not in a good way...

 

You know how when you go into a job interview, the interviewer might ask you where you see yourself in 5 years and 10 years?   You might take that approach to this marriage you're thinking about, taking all the things you're asking about here into account.  And go about it objectively and as detached as you can.  Try and think past the warm glow of this courtship period.  As an outsider, my instincts lie with those advising you to run, but you're the first person and only your assessment counts for anything.  If you were to go through with it and come to regret it, or walk away and come to eventually regret THAT, the misery would be yours, not ours.

    

[strikingsunset]

On ‎24‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 5:21 AM, sead said:

A 37 year old woman that let her mother boss around and ask for sinsod. Thats the biggest problem.... her mother is the one whos going to make all decisions. If mother says leave him shes going to do that.

Who came up with the idea to marry and why do you need to do that. You save yourself alot of problems simple by staying unmarried.

keep paying her some small salary for family to be taken care of. Go and look for a condo to rent instead of moving in. You dont pay sinsod for a 37 year old woman. She and her family should see this as a jackpot to even get her married at her age! The chances that she already has been married and have grownup kids is really big. And yes, Issan people lie for money. 

That is an interesting comment. So to ask ,at approx what womans age does sinsod, realistically, become a non issue or similar. 

[wildewillie89]

Living with the in-laws isn't all that bad if you are very straight talking and can compromise with each other. I lived with them for about 6 months or so whilst our house was being built as we had a newborn also. It is initially hard work due to culture shock on both sides so you have to be smart in the way you play it. I even sat them down with a Thai doctor I trusted to make sure farang ways of doing things were incorporated (as we all know Thai will respect doctors). I knew it would be too hard to try and change whole ways of life with just me. The mother took a bit longer than the father (as she is not educated) but now even goes around telling the village you don't have to give pills to kids with a virus, they can get better by themselves. 

The mother-in-law will temporarily live with us when our second child is born in a couple of months to help out also. The houses are only a minute drive away anyway. However, they are now really good. Mother will cook lunch and dinner everyday for us, help a lot with the kids (both obviously work), will even drive to the market to buy me a pizza with her own money if she hasn't cooked anything if she knows I have had a long day. Took a few months of literally refusing to leave the drive way, but have even managed to teach her that she must wear a seatbelt if in the car with our daughter and she has even started wearing a helmet when on her motorcycle (obviously not with our daughter). Father-in-law works hard, but will always want to take care of our daughter and will even leave work early sometimes to do that. Not uncommon for him to want to pay for vaccines or buy baby related items also. 

However, I agree that if the mother has not been 'taught' to compromise and seems particularly interested in money then life will be difficult - just one big continual stressful conflict of cultures. My mother and father in law help out as they know we both work. However, they are on a pretty good wicket in terms of their financial income from working hard and setting themselves up. If the OP's  girl friend is middle class, shouldn't be too dissimilar, just need to learn to compromise and break the initial culture shock. Many are just too lazy to go to the extra steps of possibly bringing in outside people so it ends up difficult in terms of the relationship with the family. 

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎11‎/‎20‎/‎2017 at 3:35 AM, Kadilo said:

What's an engagement ceremony? Personally I wouldn't show anything until the wedding and even then only if it's returned.


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

Do Thais even have engagement ceremonies?

I'd show a 100,000 baht at the "party'', but I wouldn't be handing it over to anyone. Sin sod is only at the wedding and even then not necessary.

From the sound of the MIL I'd be very sus as to getting it back once handed over. Perhaps put a real pan baht at the ends of a pile of paper, just so people could see what they think is 100,000 baht.

 

The REAL DANGER sign is the "moving in with the family". If agreeing to that, just hand over all your money now and go back home. It'll save all the grief in between marriage and divorce.

The MIL sounds like mine was ( she since died ), and I wouldn't wish her on any unsuspecting farang.

 

I'd make it clear NOW, that there is no sin sod and no way you'll move in with them, and I think you will soon find out just how much she loves you for yourself and not for your wallet.

Either live far far away, or run, now.

 

On ‎11‎/‎19‎/‎2017 at 11:31 PM, Eddie664 said:

I don't know how much she will ask in sin sod, but said that 100k is part of it.

I just noticed this. If 100,000 is ONLY A PART of the eventual demand, run and never look back. Mine was 50,000 and I did get it back.

[thaibeachlovers]

PS it is traditional for a daughter to support her parents, she can do that according to her ability to earn money. Expecting a farang husband to do so could lead directly to DIVORCE, as with me.

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎11‎/‎23‎/‎2017 at 4:44 PM, richard_smith237 said:

 

I think this is a healthy and balanced approach.

 

Some guys are clearly getting ripped off. For others they have to decide which parts of the culture they will go with and where culture and expectations will meet in the middle. There are no hard and fast rules with the exception that respect must be mutual for any of this malarkey to ever be successful... 

Whenever my wife wanted me to do something her way, it was always "it's culture", but she never accepted that that goes both ways and she married a different culture.

Strangely, she always seemed to believe that "it's culture" meant I had to accept it.

Needless to say, never mentioned culture till she manipulated me to the village.

The long con is a wondrous beast.

[Aussieroaming]

My wife never bought the subject of Sin Sod up before we got married, but I decided to give Sin Sod out of respect for the parents for bringing up a lovely daughter. So I set the figure and told my then wife to be that I wanted to offer  x amount. We also donated all of the cash given to us at the ceremony to them. I realise that this isnt a western custom, but i didnt marry a western lady.

 

Since then my FIL gives at least 100K Baht to each of his 5 children once or twice a year, including my wife. We always accept it and then give it to MIL to save in case their circumstances ever change because we dont want or need the money.

 

The in-laws have never asked for 1 satang from us other than accepting what I gave freely at the wedding and i couldn't be married into a warmer family.

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎11‎/‎26‎/‎2017 at 5:16 PM, Aussieroaming said:

My wife never bought the subject of Sin Sod up before we got married, but I decided to give Sin Sod out of respect for the parents for bringing up a lovely daughter. So I set the figure and told my then wife to be that I wanted to offer  x amount. We also donated all of the cash given to us at the ceremony to them. I realise that this isnt a western custom, but i didnt marry a western lady.

 

Since then my FIL gives at least 100K Baht to each of his 5 children once or twice a year, including my wife. We always accept it and then give it to MIL to save in case their circumstances ever change because we dont want or need the money.

 

The in-laws have never asked for 1 satang from us other than accepting what I gave freely at the wedding and i couldn't be married into a warmer family.

You won the lottery.

[Aussieroaming]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

You won the lottery.

Not really, I just married the right woman for me. to be honest I was a bit careful, I decided that any girl I dated had to have a degree, their own career and speak reasonable English. Sounds pedantic but I wanted a genuine partner that I could communicate with as an equal. I had worked in Asia for a long time, met lots of women with degrees and careers, so I was well aware that there was a pretty solid middle class around if you want to wait for the right person. At the time I didn't know much about the in- laws other than the fact that their daughter was very self sufficient and hard working. 

[cat handler]

Sin Sod is only part of it, you will also have to give gold as well, it’s on display during the ceremony. There is also no guarantee you will get it back, it’s a dowry and can be kept by the parents. Also 100,000 baht is cheap, I was talking to my girl from Surin and her cousin just got married and Sin Sod was 500,000 Baht and 5 Baht of Gold and that was a marriage with a Thai guy. I asked my girl how much would be Sin Sod for her considering she is 29 and has a kid and she said the same, I told her that she was dreaming, I’ve known her for 10 years or so.

Bottom line is if you get it back it’s a bonus but don’t expect to get it back, your a rich farang.

Edited March 21, 2018 by cat handler

[Pilotman]

On 26/11/2017 at 4:35 PM, thaibeachlovers said:

Whenever my wife wanted me to do something her way, it was always "it's culture", but she never accepted that that goes both ways and she married a different culture.

Strangely, she always seemed to believe that "it's culture" meant I had to accept it.

Needless to say, never mentioned culture till she manipulated me to the village.

The long con is a wondrous beast.

My wife joined me in the UK many years ago.  She had to learn my culture and adapt, and it wasn't  at all easy for her.  Many times I had to tell her to do something , or act in a way that was alien to her experience. She did it with good grace, knowing that she was living in a foreign land.  I now do the same now that we are here in LOS.  Why is it that westerners seem to denigrate the phrase 'cultural differences' here but are quick to say that the Thai must conform in the westerners own country.  Could it be double standards at work? 

[Johnniey]

The MIL should be paying you -  37 is way too old for a Dowry. 

 

Woman this age usually are desperate and as a last resort, look for a foreigner on Thai lust links.

 

Why do people here use the Thai word for dowry?

 

 

[Pilotman]

18 hours ago, Johnniey said:

The MIL should be paying you -  37 is way too old for a Dowry. 

 

Woman this age usually are desperate and as a last resort, look for a foreigner on Thai lust links.

 

Why do people here use the Thai word for dowry?

 

 

because its about Thai  marriage in Thailand with Thais involved.  Why would you  use the word 'dowry' when it has no meaning here.  Odd  idea don't you think?  Tell you what, lets call it 'bruidskat' the Africaans word for sin sot. 

[MaeJoMTB]

On 3/21/2018 at 9:39 PM, Johnniey said:

The MIL should be paying you -  37 is way too old for a Dowry. 

 

Woman this age usually are desperate and as a last resort, look for a foreigner on Thai lust links.

 

Why do people here use the Thai word for dowry?

Probably because the definition of Dowry (woman's parents paying future husband) is the exact opposite to the definition of Sinsot (future husband paying woman's parents).

[Johnniey]

4 minutes ago, MaeJoMTB said:

Probably because the definition of Dowry (woman's parents paying future husband) is the exact opposite to the definition of Sinsot (future husband paying woman's parents).

You're not a native English speaker are you? Dowry doesn't mean what you say.