LTR Health Insurance : Self-insurance with US$100,000 Bank Deposit

[webfact]

UK's May meets senior ministers to discuss Brexit divorce bill offer

 

FILE PHOTO: Britain's Prime Minister Theresa May leaves 10 Downing Street in London, November 1, 2017. REUTERS/Toby Melville /File Photo

 

LONDON (Reuters) - Prime Minister Theresa May met with senior members of her ministerial team on Monday to discuss their response to European Union demands for more detail on how much Britain is willing to pay as part of its Brexit divorce package.

 

The EU told May on Friday that there was more work to be done to unlock the Brexit talks, repeating its early December deadline for her to flesh out Britain's opening offer on the financial settlement, thought to be worth around 20 billion euros.

 

May met with ministers amid expectations that she will offer the EU more than she committed to during a speech in Florence in September which failed to provide a meaningful breakthrough in the stalled negotiations.

 

Despite growing pressure from businesses to show she can drive talks onto the subject of future trading relations with the EU, May's office gave little away as to the conclusions of Monday's meeting.

 

"It remains our position that nothing's agreed until everything's agreed in negotiations with the EU," a source from May's office said. "As the Prime Minister said this morning, the UK and the EU should step forward together."

 

Media reports said the ministers had agreed to make an offer which would increase the value of May's existing commitment. The Independent news website said May's opening offer could double to around 40 billion but gave no details. The BBC reported that no specific amounts had been discussed during the meeting.

 

May has repeatedly signalled that she will increase an initial offer that is thought to be worth about a third of what Brussels wants.

 

But, wary of the need to keep the peace in her Conservative Party, which has a powerful faction insisting Britain should be paying the minimum possible to the EU and using the cash offer to leverage better exit terms, May has avoided publicly discussing any figure.

 

Instead, she has said Britain will meet its financial obligations to the bloc, a commitment which remains wide open to interpretation.

Finance minister Philip Hammond said on Sunday that the government would submit its proposal to the EU before a Dec. 14-15 summit.

 

He warned Britain would be prepared to negotiate hard over the bill, acknowledging differences of opinion with the EU on the value of liabilities, and whether Britain was even liable at all for some elements of the total amount mooted by Brussels.

 

(Reporting by William James; Editing by Sandra Maler and Cynthia Osterman)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-11-21

[terryw]

If the UK offers €40  billion then expect a rebellion by Joe public. This money would be better spent on the NHS and other public services.

[Orac]

6 minutes ago, terryw said:

If the UK offers €40  billion then expect a rebellion by Joe public. This money would be better spent on the NHS and other public services.

 

How about letting the govt negotiate the best deal they can rather than trying to undermine them by threats of rebellion. They are implementing the "will of the people" after a vote by over 33 million Brits.

[vogie]

So if we pay there or about £40 billion, then the EU will tell us what we will get for it, that is not negotiation, it's stupidity.

[Orac]

The "bill" is a political problem and, when looked at as a percentage of GDP, not a significant economic one. The other of the three issues are the technically difficult ones with the Irish border being virtually impossible hence why May is trying to buy some more goodwill.

[Baerboxer]

2 hours ago, vogie said:

So if we pay there or about £40 billion, then the EU will tell us what we will get for it, that is not negotiation, it's stupidity.

 

Britain should honor its financial commitments, paying them when they are due. Not earlier. Providing the EU honors its commitments with a share of the assets and ensures Britain also receives its share of what it pays for.

 

That would take both sides to work through the detail amicably.

 

So far all the EU have done is make endless threats and demands. Suggests one side isn't interested in a deal but only after what they can get.

[rudi49jr]

3 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

So far all the EU have done is make endless threats and demands. Suggests one side isn't interested in a deal but only after what they can get.

And the Brits haven't been dragging their feet at all since day one, have they? And I seem to recall quite a few threats and demands from them as well ...

[Srikcir]

6 hours ago, vogie said:

So if we pay there or about £40 billion, then the EU will tell us what we will get for it, that is not negotiation, it's stupidity.

It's quid pro quo.

[vogie]

3 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

It's quid pro quo.

Quid pro quo can mean blackmail, is that what you are referring to?

[rudi49jr]

19 minutes ago, vogie said:

Quid pro quo can mean blackmail, is that what you are referring to?

I don't know what your definition of quid pro quo is, but I don't think blackmail comes into it.

[vogie]

2 minutes ago, rudi49jr said:

I don't know what your definition of quid pro quo is, but I don't think blackmail comes into it.

Quid pro quo can refer to an illegal transaction such as blackmail.

[dunroaming]

7 hours ago, terryw said:

If the UK offers €40  billion then expect a rebellion by Joe public. This money would be better spent on the NHS and other public services.

Not a rebellion as such but everyone will be angry about a bill of 40 billion.  The remainers will be angry because they can see the cost of having a team of useless embarrassingly bad negotiators screwing Brexit up and the leavers will be angry because at last they will see the lies we were all told, exposed.  We were promised £350 million a week for the NHS and instead we will end up paying 40 billion.  Fat chance of any money for the NHS for years to come.  Of course they will be angry and that is why, for the moment, the government is still keeping the figure under wraps. 

 

No doubt there will still be those shouting leave now without paying any money at all!  The rest of us live in the real world.

Edited November 21, 2017 by dunroaming

[Here It Is]

Tell the EU that we've had a look at the books and these are tough times and our final divorce bill offer is 5bn.  Take it or leave it.  

[dunroaming]

14 minutes ago, Here It Is said:

Tell the EU that we've had a look at the books and these are tough times and our final divorce bill offer is 5bn.  Take it or leave it.  

Yep! That will do it.  

[rudi49jr]

2 hours ago, vogie said:

Quid pro quo can refer to an illegal transaction such as blackmail.

Quid pro quo, legal or illegal, doesn't have anything to do with blackmail. Quid pro quo is 'a favour for a favour', or 'I scratch your back if you scratch mine,' in short, an exchange of goods or services. Blackmail means that you get something for nothing because you have some kind of leverage over the other party.

[vogie]

8 minutes ago, rudi49jr said:

Quid pro quo, legal or illegal, doesn't have anything to do with blackmail. Quid pro quo is 'a favour for a favour', or 'I scratch your back if you scratch mine,' in short, an exchange of goods or services. Blackmail means that you get something for nothing because you have some kind of leverage over the other party.

You are wrong, if you wish to ignore the alternative meanings because it doesn't suit you that's fine. But I find it very amusing that you seem to think that the EU is scratching the UKs back, I find the opposite!

[rudi49jr]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

You are wrong, if you wish to ignore the alternative meanings because it doesn't suit you that's fine. But I find it very amusing that you seem to think that the EU is scratching the UKs back, I find the opposite!

Why would the EU have to scratch the UK’s back if the UK is absolutely unwilling to reciprocate? 

[vogie]

17 minutes ago, rudi49jr said:

Why would the EU have to scratch the UK’s back if the UK is absolutely unwilling to reciprocate? 

This is getting hard work, you were the one that stated "you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours." Check your post 15. 

[dunroaming]

Maybe Quid Pro Quo isn't quite the right description but rudi49j's definition is correct.  Basically Britain has said that it is leaving the EU but wants a super special deal.  For that they will make concessions and hand over more cash.  That is about as close to a Quid Pro Quo that you will get.

 

Are the EU being unreasonable about the amount of money?  Well that depends on the deal Britain will end up with.  It would have to be a very special trade deal to justify the 40 billion.  The EU has said if the UK commit to the right amount (in their eyes) then they have a trade deal on the table.  Barnier also said that any trade deal that included the free movement of goods would also need the free movement of people, which has always been their position.

 

When you guys get a quiet moment, why don't you sit down and work out if Brexit is actually going to be worth it.  If we are honest then we knew that the 40 billion (or thereabouts) was always going to be paid.  Tomorrow is the budget and Hammond is under considerable pressure to ease austerity and announce some cash injections. With this huge divorce bill how can he do that?  Maybe take the Labour route and borrow more money to placate the voters?  When we leave the EU the government will have to put billions in to counter the consequences that Brexit will cause.  There is no upside here.

[vogie]

2 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

Maybe Quid Pro Quo isn't quite the right description but rudi49j's definition is correct.  Basically Britain has said that it is leaving the EU but wants a super special deal.  For that they will make concessions and hand over more cash.  That is about as close to a Quid Pro Quo that you will get.

 

Are the EU being unreasonable about the amount of money?  Well that depends on the deal Britain will end up with.  It would have to be a very special trade deal to justify the 40 billion.  The EU has said if the UK commit to the right amount (in their eyes) then they have a trade deal on the table.  Barnier also said that any trade deal that included the free movement of goods would also need the free movement of people, which has always been their position.

 

When you guys get a quiet moment, why don't you sit down and work out if Brexit is actually going to be worth it.  If we are honest then we knew that the 40 billion (or thereabouts) was always going to be paid.  Tomorrow is the budget and Hammond is under considerable pressure to ease austerity and announce some cash injections. With this huge divorce bill how can he do that?  Maybe take the Labour route and borrow more money to placate the voters?  When we leave the EU the government will have to put billions in to counter the consequences that Brexit will cause.  There is no upside here.

We could play with semantics all night, whether rudi is wrong or right is totally immaterial, the post is about the payment for the EU divorce bill. Giving the EU lets say £40 billion without knowing what we will get in return is either blackmail or sheer stupidity. But I suppose it all depends which side of the fence you are sitting, maybe our european cousins are feeling a little peeved at the UK leaving and want to hurt the UK, but any Brit should want what is best for the country, unless they are a wrexateer.

[dunroaming]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

We could play with semantics all night, whether rudi is wrong or right is totally immaterial, the post is about the payment for the EU divorce bill. Giving the EU lets say £40 billion without knowing what we will get in return is either blackmail or sheer stupidity. But I suppose it all depends which side of the fence you are sitting, maybe our european cousins are feeling a little peeved at the UK leaving and want to hurt the UK, but any Brit should want what is best for the country, unless they are a wrexateer.

Absolutely right that any Brit should want what is best for the country and that very clearly now is to scarp Brexit altogether.  It is unworkable to get anything other than a really crap deal for the country.  Yet still we stagger on because as Davis said today,  "We may or may not get the deal we want for Britain but we will deliver Brexit because that is what people voted for".  There is going to be a disastrous outcome from Brexit and if the people who voted for it can't see that now then they never will.  Even when they are queueing at the food banks. 

 

Scrap it or pay the price.

 

Or maybe you have an answer that will bring in a positive result for Britain and that we can all get behind?

Edited November 21, 2017 by dunroaming

[vogie]

1 minute ago, dunroaming said:

Absolutely right that any Brit should want what is best for the country and that very clearly now is to scarp Brexit altogether.  It is unworkable to get anything other than a really crap deal for the country.  Yet still we stagger on because as Davis said today,  "We may or may not get the deal we want for Britain but we will deliver Brexit because that is what people voted for".  There is going to be a disastrous outcome from Brexit and if the people who voted for it can't see that now then they never will.  Even when they are queueing at the food banks. 

 

Scrap it or pay the price.

Scrapping brexit is a none starter and saying it is unworkable is your interpretation, not the majority.

[rudi49jr]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

This is getting hard work, you were the one that stated "you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours." Check your post 15. 

Yeah, hard work indeed. You were the one accusing the EU of blackmail, while I was just trying to point out that it takes two to tango.

[dunroaming]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

Giving the EU lets say £40 billion without knowing what we will get in return is either blackmail or sheer stupidity.

Well it isn't blackmail because with blackmail you pay someone to get something back in return, even if it is just their silence.  What the EU is saying is that we need to pay our divorce bill and then we can move on.  Is it fair? No but this is where we are at and we desperately need a deal of some sort and the people negotiating are useless.  We can walk away from Brexit at any time but instead we choose to march on into the mire.  

 

15 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

Or maybe you have an answer that will bring in a positive result for Britain and that we can all get behind?

 

4 minutes ago, vogie said:

Scrapping brexit is a none starter and saying it is unworkable is your interpretation, not the majority.

Come on then, how do we deliver a successful Brexit?  The "majority"   has shifted considerably since the referendum.  Do you honestly think anyone feels we are moving in the right direction?  All the Brexiteers I meet say it's a disaster and blame the EU or the government.

[vogie]

1 minute ago, rudi49jr said:

Yeah, hard work indeed. You were the one accusing the EU of blackmail, while I was just trying to point out that it takes two to tango.

I certainly was not accusing the EU of blackmail, I was giving you another interpretation of your "quid pro quo" nothing more nothing less. If you wish to alter my post 'ita sit' If it is your intentention to misquote me 'vale amici mei'

[vogie]

6 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

Well it isn't blackmail because with blackmail you pay someone to get something back in return, even if it is just their silence.  What the EU is saying is that we need to pay our divorce bill and then we can move on.  Is it fair? No but this is where we are at and we desperately need a deal of some sort and the people negotiating are useless.  We can walk away from Brexit at any time but instead we choose to march on into the mire.  

 

 

Come on then, how do we deliver a successful Brexit?  The "majority"   has shifted considerably since the referendum.  Do you honestly think anyone feels we are moving in the right direction?  All the Brexiteers I meet say it's a disaster and blame the EU or the government.

We're obviously singing from different songsheets here. I stick by what I have said, it is very unusual to give money to someone without knowing what you will get in return.

You say we can walk away from brexit at any time, I could just as easily say we can walk away from the EU at any time and pay nothing, do you honestly think the EU has nothing to lose by pushing us into that scenario?

And I've heard the one about "all brexiteers I meet say it's a disaster" well that is funny because all the people I meet say the contrary. We are never going to agree on this, but I respect your opinion but to carry this on any further purely futile.

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

Scrapping brexit is a none starter and saying it is unworkable is your interpretation, not the majority.

I wouldn't bet on it

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

Scrapping brexit is a none starter and saying it is unworkable is your interpretation, not the majority.

I wouldn't bet on it

[Grouse]

Zugzwang is the word, not blackmail. Look it up; perfect

 

(there is no direct translation)

 

Forced to make a move when you know that whatever you do will be harmful for you. It's a chess expression

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zugzwang

Edited November 21, 2017 by Grouse

[vogie]

3 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Zugzwang is the word, not blackmail. Look it up; perfect

 

(there is no direct translation)

 

Forced to make a move when you know that whatever you do will be harmful for you. It's a chess expression

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zugzwang

Sounds more like a wrexateer expression.