Video: Thai media call for justice as "farang knocks Thai off motorcycle" - You decide!

[NorthernRyland]

So what does Thailand expect me to do as a biker? If I keep to the extreme left like  the law states, I'm forced to weave in and out of the left shoulder as parked cars, holes, dogs etc... obstruct the "lane". Even if there is no obstruction and I keep left cars are having to basically turn by crossing the entire lane. No matter how hard drivers may try there's still a reasonable chance I'm going to get cut off and hit eventually.

 

Having said Thai drivers knowingly and often rush ahead of me in order to cut me off in order to make a turn. There's no way to win, the system is setup to fail and we're all f**ked.

[AlexRich]

I don’t suppose any of the two of them deserve what happened, but I really think that the motorcyclist needed to take more care, and never attempt to overtake someone on the left. This was an accident in every sense of the word ... I’d have no problem blaming the foreigner if he deserved it but on this occasion I don’t think he is at fault.

[KamalaRider]

3 hours ago, Thaidream said:

The Thai law indicates that a driver needs to turn on their turn signal 60 metres before initiating the turn.

If the car driver had no signal he is at fault or he turned it on just as he was turning- he is at fault -100%

However, if the driver of the car turned on the turn signal within the 60 metre rule and the cycle decided he could pass  on the left anyway- the cycle is at fault 100%.

At this point- unless there are witnesses or a video which clearly shows  whether the vehicle had a turn signal visible so the cycle driver could reasonably see it- everything will be up to the mood of the police and how they want to settle it. If I was the car driver - I would turn the case over to the insurance company and let them settle it- that is why one carries insurance coverage/

Two things, first, indicator must be used, hand signal or lights, 60 meters before the turn , you are correct with 60 meters. 

Secondly, it's always illegal to pass on the left, unless there are two or more lanes going the same direction.

Edited November 22, 2017 by KamalaRider

[KamalaRider]

4 minutes ago, genericptr said:

So what does Thailand expect me to do as a biker? If I keep to the extreme left like  the law states, I'm forced to weave in and out of the left shoulder as parked cars, holes, dogs etc... obstruct the "lane". Even if there is no obstruction and I keep left cars are having to basically turn by crossing the entire lane. No matter how hard drivers may try there's still a reasonable chance I'm going to get cut off and hit eventually.

 

Having said Thai drivers knowingly and often rush ahead of me in order to cut me off in order to make a turn. There's no way to win, the system is setup to fail and we're all f**ked.

Pass on their right, not left.

[NorthernRyland]

3 minutes ago, KamalaRider said:

Pass on their right, not left.

I'm not passing, just going straight on the extreme left. If I approach a car in front of me (in the "proper" left lane) I'm effectively in a passing scenario now and if the driver forgets to signal (probably will) or just doesn't see then I'm screwed. Depending on the situation I do sometimes get off the extreme left and pass on the right but this pisses of the cars because I'm in "their" lane now.

[KamalaRider]

3 hours ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

Yes, you can also use hand signals but you must signal that you are going to turn.

Think about it, the handsignal is for right turn, the driver seat is on the right side, he's close to the windows and stretch out his arm through the right window, makes sense, right? Left turn, no person behind of in front of the car can see left arm stretched out to signal left turn. Many reasons why it's not that important with left turn and signals but VERY important on right turns. 

[Kieran00001]

1 minute ago, KamalaRider said:

Think about it, the handsignal is for right turn, the driver seat is on the right side, he's close to the windows and stretch out his arm through the right window, makes sense, right? Left turn, no person behind of in front of the car can see left arm stretched out to signal left turn. Many reasons why it's not that important with left turn and signals but VERY important on right turns. 

I know how to do a left hand single with my right arm, thanks anyway.

[KamalaRider]

3 minutes ago, genericptr said:

I'm not passing, just going straight on the extreme left. If I approach a car in front of me (in the "proper" left lane) I'm effectively in a passing scenario now and if the driver forgets to signal (probably will) or just doesn't see then I'm screwed. Depending on the situation I do sometimes get off the extreme left and pass on the right but this pisses of the cars because I'm in "their" lane now.

Sorry, I don't understand, their lane? I have been driving cars and motorcycles in Thailand for 10 years and I have never considered any lane to be owned by a type of vehicle, except for motorcycle lanes.

[KamalaRider]

1 minute ago, Kieran00001 said:

I know how to do a left hand single with my right arm, thanks anyway.

Ok, then you do know that hand signals to the left aren't easy for any vehicle behind to observe. 

[NorthernRyland]

1 minute ago, KamalaRider said:

Sorry, I don't understand, their lane? I have been driving cars and motorcycles in Thailand for 10 years and I have never considered any lane to be owned by a type of vehicle, except for motorcycle lanes.

The law expects motorbikes to keep left at all times and it's a courtesy to cars because bikes are often going slower. Consider the situation where you're keeping left like a good biker and ahead there is a car going slow enough you could overtake them. Should you continue on your path or pass on the right? I've found drivers to be annoyed when I pass on the right and get in their way and most Thai's just keep on the left and expect the cars to signal and yield if they need to make  left turn.

[Kieran00001]

2 minutes ago, KamalaRider said:

Ok, then you do know that hand signals to the left aren't easy for any vehicle behind to observe. 

Exactly same as hand signals to the right, both being the right arm outstretched from the right window., just one with movement.  But who cares anyway?  I for one have these newfangled things called indicator lights. 

[faraday]

18 minutes ago, KamalaRider said:

Two things, first, indicator must be used, hand signal or lights, 60 meters before the turn , you are correct with 60 meters. 

Secondly, it's always illegal to pass on the left, unless there are two or more lanes going the same direction.

Earlier you said that indicators aren't important.

 

Now you're saying they must be used.

 

Never wrong....are you female? 555!

[KamalaRider]

1 minute ago, faraday said:

Earlier you said that indicators aren't important.

 

Now you're saying they must be used.

 

Never wrong....are you female? 555!

I have newer version of the traffic law somewhere on my computers, it might even be in a computer I have in storage in Thailand ( I left Thailand 1 1/2 years ago) I have read the 1976 version before, but in a more recent translation, I sincerely recollect it's not mandatory but until I can find that one, I'll have to say, I was wrong.

[Dave67]

1 hour ago, gintis0604 said:

Common sense?? It was a Thai on the motorbike!!

Read the  word "Normally" If you can't work it out I'm  not going to tell you again

[Jaggg88]

13 hours ago, faraday said:

Car drivers fault.

Also, because motorcycles are small & cars are big, we have a greater responsibility to drive with 'due care & attention'.

The indicators weren't used.

Still doesn't make it legal to undertake another moving vehicle.

[KamalaRider]

21 minutes ago, genericptr said:

The law expects motorbikes to keep left at all times and it's a courtesy to cars because bikes are often going slower. Consider the situation where you're keeping left like a good biker and ahead there is a car going slow enough you could overtake them. Should you continue on your path or pass on the right? I've found drivers to be annoyed when I pass on the right and get in their way and most Thai's just keep on the left and expect the cars to signal and yield if they need to make  left turn.

Motorbikes that pass on the left aren't going slower. What people expect and do vs the Thai traffic rules and legislation says are two completely different things.

[NorthernRyland]

1 minute ago, KamalaRider said:

Motorbikes that pass on the left aren't going slower. What people expect and do vs the Thai traffic rules and legislation says are two completely different things.

Then that means motorbikes on the extreme left (as the law and society both expect) can never exceed the speed of the slowest car in the left lane. The law and system are both broken and dysfunctional. I'd rather piss off impatient drivers than always keep left and risk getting hit. 

[Puccini]

4 hours ago, KamalaRider said:

Again, turn signals are only advisory, not mandatory.

 

Are you referring to section 36 of the English translation of the Road Traffic Act B.E. 2522 (1979)

 

Quote

 

Section 36.The  driver  who  wishes to  turn  conveyance,  allow  other conveyance to pass or overtake, change the lane, slow down, park or stop, must give a  signal  with  hands and  arms under  section  37  or  light  signal  under  section  38,  or other signal under the rule of the traffic officer.

 

If the nature  of  conveyance,  loading nature, or visibility  environment renders giving signal with hands and arms under paragraph one invisible to the driver of  oncoming  conveyance  or  conveyance  driving  behind,  the  driver  must  give  light signal instead.

 

The driver must give signal with hands and arms, light signal or other signal under  paragraph  one at  least  thirty  maters before  turning,  changing  lane, parking or stopping.  

 

The driver must give signal with hands and arms, light signal or other signal  under  paragraph  one  to  be  visible  by  driver  of another  conveyance  at  a distance of at least sixty meters.

 

 

For total accuracy, please refer to the original Thai text of the Road Traffic Act:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B34mNX-szfYVTXhPMnA3ZG9YQlU

[KamalaRider]

28 minutes ago, genericptr said:

The law expects motorbikes to keep left at all times and it's a courtesy to cars because bikes are often going slower. Consider the situation where you're keeping left like a good biker and ahead there is a car going slow enough you could overtake them. Should you continue on your path or pass on the right? I've found drivers to be annoyed when I pass on the right and get in their way and most Thai's just keep on the left and expect the cars to signal and yield if they need to make  left turn.

I'm sorry, but it's not my experience at all and I have over 150 000km behind me driving in Thailand, Phuket/Bangkok/Ubon Ratchathani the last 10 years I lived there. 

[Devlin]

In the UK, under British traffic legislation, the motorcyclist would have been at fault. The rationale being that one should always leave a safe stopping distance between the vehicle at front to allow for sudden stops, swerves to avoid debris , holes in the road etc etc.  In addition undertaking in the UK is an absolute offence. 

***  But this happened in Thailand so who knows!  ***

[KamalaRider]

3 minutes ago, Puccini said:

 

Are you referring to section 36 of the English translation of the Road Traffic Act B.E. 2522 (1979)

 

 

For total accuracy, please refer to the original Thai text of the Road Traffic Act:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B34mNX-szfYVTXhPMnA3ZG9YQlU

I was but I believe I have read a newer addendum to this Traffic act and a more correct translation but as I don't read Thai, I wouldn't know if there was a difference in translation so I back off, saying I was wrong it's not mandatory until I or anyone else can find another version. 

[NorthernRyland]

5 minutes ago, KamalaRider said:

I'm sorry, but it's not my experience at all and I have over 150 000km behind me driving in Thailand, Phuket/Bangkok/Ubon Ratchathani the last 10 years I lived there. 

You mean drivers don't care if motorbikes are in their lane? I don't drive here (just bike) but when I drive with Thai's they're clearly annoyed when tmotorbikes get in their way when they could be more to the left.

[smedly]

2 hours ago, midas said:

but your the one who says better driver education standards wouldn't make any difference to the number of these kind of accidents. How are they gonna know what is the law and isn't the law if no one teaches them in the first place?

well yes I did but I also stated that most already know the law but disregard it, why ? - because they can get away with breaking the law because it is not enforced - there is nothing stopping them, this was a minor incident of a motorbike rider doing something utterly stupid and when you into the Road Traffic Act he was also breaking the law, I have suggested in past topics and posts that mobile phone use - drunk driving - careless driving are the main causes of accidents here, there are many other offences that contribute to some extent but the real problem is lack of enforcement - they know they can get away with doing whatever they like which in turn equals carnage on the roads.

 

If the police were to tell this motorbike rider that he should not be overtaking on the left as it is breaking the law then that is the correct message they should be giving, not only for him but for everyone following this story.

[KamalaRider]

2 minutes ago, genericptr said:

You mean drivers don't care if motorbikes are in their lane? I don't drive here (just bike) but when I drive with Thai's they're clearly annoyed when tmotorbikes get in their way when they could be more to the left.

I think most Thai drivers, mc's or cars, don't like when I drive in their lane, but it have nothing to do with which lane. 

If I would putter around, they would get annoyed wether I'm driving a car or a bike.

[NorthernRyland]

3 minutes ago, Devlin said:

In the UK, under British traffic legislation, the motorcyclist would have been at fault. The rationale being that one should always leave a safe stopping distance between the vehicle at front to allow for sudden stops, swerves to avoid debris , holes in the road etc etc.  In addition undertaking in the UK is an absolute offence. 

***  But this happened in Thailand so who knows!  ***

But in the UK is there an invisible bike ride on the left side of the road? In the US they expect cyclists to be firmly within the marked shoulder or if there isn't one to use the entire lane (or the road is banned for cyclists entirely). For motorbikes you're expected to use the entire lane and go the speed limit. Thailand is trying to accommodate all scenarios which favors convenience for all but with the unfortunate side effect of death. No sensible country would allow for this kind of ambiguity on the roads but the alternative is actually investing in enforcing laws and infrastructure which is obviously too much to be asked for.

[NorthernRyland]

4 minutes ago, KamalaRider said:

I think most Thai drivers, mc's or cars, don't like when I drive in their lane, but it have nothing to do with which lane. 

If I would putter around, they would get annoyed wether I'm driving a car or a bike.

Well put.

[KamalaRider]

23 minutes ago, genericptr said:

Then that means motorbikes on the extreme left (as the law and society both expect) can never exceed the speed of the slowest car in the left lane. The law and system are both broken and dysfunctional. I'd rather piss off impatient drivers than always keep left and risk getting hit. 

The left lane isn't the boulder, in fact your are not allowed to drive outside the white line (boulder area). When I drove in Thailand, bike or car, I took space and showed very clear my intentions, just for my own survival. 

Edited November 22, 2017 by KamalaRider

[ttrd]

I had some years ago (2011) a similar accident (at a lower speed) where I was the driver of the car.

 

Unlike the driver of the pick-up I gave signal, but anyway it was not caught on cam so it might have ended with just Words against Words.

 

The woman on the motorbike could hardly walk - so I helped her to remove her motorbike from the street while she was complaining of her issue With the leg, arm, stomach etc (the motorbike seems to be ok).

 

My gf told her that we have a 1st class Insurance so we could take her to the hospital which she refused. We negotated the price Down to 1000thb, her pain disapperaed and she drow away happy With a 5 days salary in her Pocket - thats LOS...;)

Edited November 22, 2017 by ttrd

[oldlakey]

13 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

There is actually something in that, the law states that bikes, tuk tuks etc must travel to the extreme left of a roadway. It is somewhat the cars responsibility to merge with and give way to the bikes.

Yes I will tell you what that SOMETHING is my man Its a number try 25,000 for a kick off

[Puccini]

20 minutes ago, KamalaRider said:

I was but I believe I have read a newer addendum to this Traffic act and a more correct translation but as I don't read Thai, I wouldn't know if there was a difference in translation so I back off, saying I was wrong it's not mandatory until I or anyone else can find another version. 

 

I expect there have been a number of amendments made to the Road Traffic Act of B.E. 2522 (1979) but unfortunately no government agency seems to publish the updated versions of laws. This leaves everybody, including law offices, to read not only through the original law but also the subsequent laws amending the original law, to have a comprehensive view of the law. Some law offices may make their own updated versions of some laws but do not give free access to it on the internet.