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No joke - China government warns northern cities to get serious in war on smog

 

A man wearing a face mask rides a bicycle on a bridge in front of the financial district of Pudong covered in smog during a polluted day in Shanghai, China November 22, 2017. REUTERS/Aly Song

 

BEIJING (Reuters) - Some northern Chinese cities failed to improve air quality by much last month, hitting the smog-prone region's overall results in a drive against pollution, the government said as it warned provincial officials to comply with stringent steps to clear the skies.

 

"Some cities did not improve air quality by much or even experienced some volatility, and in a way, they have dragged down the regional air quality level," Ministry of Environmental Protection (MEP) spokesperson, Liu Youbin, said at a regular briefing on Thursday.

 

He did not identify the underperforming cities, but the comment comes amid concerns about the country's ability to reduce pollution in winter as it battles to avoid a repeat of the near-record levels of choking smog that enveloped key northern areas at the start of the year.

 

"There is no jesting in war. For those local officials who do not enforce the measures of the campaign effectively and could not improve air quality in time, we will hold them accountable," Liu added.

 

Data earlier this month showed only four of 28 northern Chinese cities met their air quality targets in October and air quality in 338 Chinese cities worsened in October, with levels of hazardous breathable particles, known as PM 2.5, up 5.6 percent on the year to an average of 38 micrograms per cubic metre.

 

Beijing is under huge pressure to meet politically crucial air quality targets and clear the skies of toxic smog that blankets the north of the country as homes turn up the heat which is powered by coal.

 

Liu said overall air quality in the northern cities was improving compared with September. Average PM 2.5 levels in the region dropped 15.8 percent in October from the month before, he said.

 

"It shows that our measures are working. As long as we are persistent, and diligently enforce existing measures, regional air quality will definitely improve," he said.

 

Under the six-month campaign, 28 northern Chinese cities were ordered to thin traffic and cut industrial output. Thousands of pollution sources including steel mills, coal-fired boilers, cement and ceramic plants, mines and building sites will be shut.

 

These measures, part of Beijing's years-long time war on smog, have already roiled commodities market, fuelling worries that the tough inspections are hurting the already slowing economy.

 

(Reporting by Hallie Gu and Josephine Mason; Editing by Joseph Radford)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-11-23

[boomerangutang]

There are several reasons I'm glad I don't reside in a Chinese city.  Persistent smog is one of them.

[craigt3365]

1 hour ago, car720 said:

Ah, the press.  They trot out pictures of Shanghai and Beijing and they call it China.  I live in Sichuan and there is no smog at all.

I was using YouTube yesterday and watching Russian funniest videos and couldn't help thinking to myself........"these people are exactly the same as the rest of us, so why do we hate them?".

My dad once said to me......."never believe anything you hear, (including newspapers etc,,) and only half of what you actually see with your own eyes."

Seems Chengdu is starting to have problems.

https://www.quora.com/Why-is-the-air-pollution-terrible-in-Chengdu-China

[ilostmypassword]

1 hour ago, car720 said:

Ah, the press.  They trot out pictures of Shanghai and Beijing and they call it China.  I live in Sichuan and there is no smog at all.

I was using YouTube yesterday and watching Russian funniest videos and couldn't help thinking to myself........"these people are exactly the same as the rest of us, so why do we hate them?".

My dad once said to me......."never believe anything you hear, (including newspapers etc,,) and only half of what you actually see with your own eyes."

Not just the press. What about the lying Chinese government which is falsely asserting that there is a serious problem?

[Briggsy]

The tried and tested one million times tactic of the Chinese government when faced with the results of its own incompetent administration. National government places all the blame on corrupt regional bureaucrats, threatens to march in and lock them all up and sometimes does. The goal is to placate well-justified and widespread dissatisfaction. The actual underlying issue is rarely dealt with. China's air pollution problems which destroy quality of life go back at least 3 decades.

[craigt3365]

22 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

Not just the press. What about the lying Chinese government which is falsely asserting that there is a serious problem?

Falsely? Last time I was in Beijing I couldn't see to the end of the block!

[revwatch]

I was in Shenzhen earlier this week and my eyes were on fire the entire time even though visibly the pollution wasn't atrocious. Now I'm in a smaller city and you can still feel you're breathing shit air but at least I'm not constantly wiping smog tears away and I can see more than a mile down the road. The only place you're going to breathe clean air in China is probably some far Western province.

[PumpkinEater]

A picture is worth a thousand words!

[ilostmypassword]

27 minutes ago, car720 said:

On occasion it is bad there.  Chengdu and Mianyang sit in an unusual valley situation and are always wet.  Similar to London.

The Chinese though are moving at an unbelievable pace toward electric vehicles which, in my opinion, will greatly reduce pollution.  Normal motorcycles are just about obsolete here now and electric commuter cars are becoming all the rage.  Coal power generation should not increase with the patent today of the new batteries that recharge in a few minutes.

I believe you're referring to solid state batteries. They're almost there but not quite. At least as far as I know. I did check google news for updates in the past day or 2 but found nothing about a new patent.

[LaoPo]

27 minutes ago, car720 said:

On occasion it is bad there.  Chengdu and Mianyang sit in an unusual valley situation and are always wet.  Similar to London.

The Chinese though are moving at an unbelievable pace toward electric vehicles which, in my opinion, will greatly reduce pollution.  Normal motorcycles are just about obsolete here now and electric commuter cars are becoming all the rage.  Coal power generation should not increase with the patent today of the new batteries that recharge in a few minutes.

 

The pollution is awful, all around China, and the Beijing government elite must feel and see it also.

But they're on the right path and in 10-15 years most vehicles, buses and trucks will be electrical powered.

Most motorbikes and scooters are already electrical, next to e-bikes.

 

Volkswagen puts billions of $'s into manufacturing electrical cars in China, next to ALL other car builders, both foreign and local.

 

Next, the coal powered industries have to go.

Until then, it's misery, qua pollution, also mainly for the folks in the cities 

 

 

 

[craigt3365]

I read about China's new tech for coal plants. Impressive. 

 

As the top producer of pollution, they seem determined to do something about it. Fantastic!

[boomerangutang]

18 hours ago, car720 said:

On occasion it is bad there.  Chengdu and Mianyang sit in an unusual valley situation and are always wet.  Similar to London.

The Chinese though are moving at an unbelievable pace toward electric vehicles which, in my opinion, will greatly reduce pollution.  Normal motorcycles are just about obsolete here now and electric commuter cars are becoming all the rage.  Coal power generation should not increase with the patent today of the new batteries that recharge in a few minutes.

Sounds good.  Hopefully coal use will go down.  

[taipeir]

Ah, the press.  They trot out pictures of Shanghai and Beijing and they call it China.  I live in Sichuan and there is no smog at all.
I was using YouTube yesterday and watching Russian funniest videos and couldn't help thinking to myself........"these people are exactly the same as the rest of us, so why do we hate them?".
My dad once said to me......."never believe anything you hear, (including newspapers etc,,) and only half of what you actually see with your own eyes."

I've been all over China and smog and air pollution is a problem everywhere there including Chengdu.

Stick to the facts.

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

[taipeir]

China is working on reducing pollution however their energy demand is still increasing as is their coal use. They need to restrict car usage and reduce energy demand. Every year China sells something like 20 or 30 million card. Beijing and Shanghai up to 1 million cars a year.

 

Other countries in the SEA will get worse though as their regulations are weak and demand is increasing rapidly .

 

India already seems as bad or worse I'm the big cities, hopefully that pollution doesn't spill into the region also.

 

In Taiwan and Japan and Korea about half the air pollution at certain times is coming from China.

 

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[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎11‎/‎24‎/‎2017 at 9:40 AM, Briggsy said:

The tried and tested one million times tactic of the Chinese government when faced with the results of its own incompetent administration. National government places all the blame on corrupt regional bureaucrats, threatens to march in and lock them all up and sometimes does. The goal is to placate well-justified and widespread dissatisfaction. The actual underlying issue is rarely dealt with. China's air pollution problems which destroy quality of life go back at least 3 decades.

3 decades. Is that when they started using cars instead of bicycles?

I still remember when that is all the common man had to get around. I don't really understand why they suddenly started being able to buy cars when they were underpaid serfs labouring in factories producing cheap junk to foist on the west.

 

I guess they are a bit caught now, as if they stop selling cars and make everyone ride bicycles again it will end the faux consumer boom which is the great government hope to stimulate their economy as prices rise.

[taipeir]

Funny that.  I was in Chengdu yesterday and apart from the cold there were clear blue skies.

Even Beijing gets blue skies on occasion . 

 

I am now looking good at AQICN.ORG Chengdu and it reads 170 and UNHEALTHY.

 

So yeah stick to the facts.

 

 

If you are looking at the sky if it's a deep blue it means there is little air pollution or none. That was what north China used to be famous for.

 

If it's a washed out pale blue that is the ubuitious haze that blankets much of Asia. The sky isn't supposed to look like that.

 

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[Johnnyngai]

22 hours ago, revwatch said:

I was in Shenzhen earlier this week and my eyes were on fire the entire time even though visibly the pollution wasn't atrocious. Now I'm in a smaller city and you can still feel you're breathing shit air but at least I'm not constantly wiping smog tears away and I can see more than a mile down the road. The only place you're going to breathe clean air in China is probably some far Western province.

 Hainan Island has 100% clean air all the time.    My former favorite vacation spot. 

[taipeir]

 Hainan Island has 100% clean air all the time.    My former favorite vacation spot. 

It doesn't.

 

It is now reading 109 on AQICN which is UNHEALTHY.

 

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[thaibeachlovers]

Let's be honest, cars are the problem, but we are addicted to the private car. Till something happens to change that, nothing is going to change, and cities will continue to be cursed by them, as they destroy quality of life and air.

I was struck by how private cars have destroyed Brighton in the UK, when I visited it.

[taipeir]

Let's be honest, cars are the problem, but we are addicted to the private car. Till something happens to change that, nothing is going to change, and cities will continue to be cursed by them, as they destroy quality of life and air. I was struck by how private cars have destroyed Brighton in the UK, when I visited it.   

 

I agree with this in general. Cars are a solution that cause more problems than they fix. I drive a car but only because it's cheap here and I had one when I lived outside the city. But I don't use it in the city because it's of traffic and expense of parking and I get more exercise

 

Problems with cars

 

- Amount of roads and road space they take up is incredible . Car parking too which would be better as expanded pavements

 

- Roads absorb heat and heat up the cities and countryside meaning people use more air con and negative cycle occurs

 

- Lot of wildlife die on roads and can't cross their territories for food etc

 

- Noise , stand on a main Street and then go to an alleyway, they can be incredibly loud and not relaxing

 

- Air pollution

 

- Major killers of people and can't relax with kids and pets near cars

 

– CO2 emissions cooking us slowly

 

- poor energy and efficiency in transporting people

 

- no exercise driving means many car drivers get fat

 

- traffic jams due to low density of transporting people / goods

 

 

Yes cars have some good points but in general they are terrible for cities.

 

 

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[taipeir]

https://goo.gl/images/6sps8Z

 

Compare bike, buses and cars.

 

Actually an MRT system can carry 10 times more than a bus route. So that's really the way to go.

Thankfully Asian cities are heavily investing in MRT systems.

 

Some day we will have better environments like in Japan!

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[LaoPo]

1 hour ago, car720 said:

Funny that.  I was in Chengdu yesterday and apart from the cold there were clear blue skies.

I call that a "polaroid" moment.

 

I've been dining on a wonderful evening in Beijing...OUTSIDE in a restaurant with fine white wine..believe it or not.

Amazing moment but not frequent I think an a rare moment also.

[Kieran00001]

On 24/11/2017 at 8:05 AM, car720 said:

Ah, the press.  They trot out pictures of Shanghai and Beijing and they call it China.  I live in Sichuan and there is no smog at all.

I was using YouTube yesterday and watching Russian funniest videos and couldn't help thinking to myself........"these people are exactly the same as the rest of us, so why do we hate them?".

My dad once said to me......."never believe anything you hear, (including newspapers etc,,) and only half of what you actually see with your own eyes."

 

Chendu is often more polluted than Shanghai and Beijing.

https://www.travelchinaguide.com/climate/air-pollution.htm

In the first half of 2016 the levels of PM2.5 were 6 times the WHO recommended yearly average.

[LaoPo]

1 hour ago, taipeir said:

I agree with this in general. Cars are a solution that cause more problems than they fix. I drive a car but only because it's cheap here and I had one when I lived outside the city. But I don't use it in the city because it's of traffic and expense of parking and I get more exercise

 

Problems with cars

 

- Amount of roads and road space they take up is incredible . Car parking too which would be better as expanded pavements

 

- Roads absorb heat and heat up the cities and countryside meaning people use more air con and negative cycle occurs

 

- Lot of wildlife die on roads and can't cross their territories for food etc

 

- Noise , stand on a main Street and then go to an alleyway, they can be incredibly loud and not relaxing

 

- Air pollution

 

- Major killers of people and can't relax with kids and pets near cars

 

– CO2 emissions cooking us slowly

 

- poor energy and efficiency in transporting people

 

- no exercise driving means many car drivers get fat

 

- traffic jams due to low density of transporting people / goods

 

 

Yes cars have some good points but in general they are terrible for cities.

 

 

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What do you expect from a country that was locked up for centuries and came out only since 20-30 years at an unbelievable speed with a population of almost 1.4 Billion people?

Of course many things have to be done, fixed and improved but I strongly believe that China will be in front, worldwide, that the majority of cars in China will be electrical powered in 10-15 years.

 

I don't know if you're from Taiwan but relatives of mine were in the south of Taiwan just 1,5 months ago and they were shocked by the poverty, bad infrastructure, lousy food and so on.

 

I can't judge about that since I havent been there lately but the report to all friends and family was: "I will never go back to Taiwan"...

 

See, it's all in the eyes of the beholder.

 

[Kieran00001]

2 hours ago, car720 said:

Funny that.  I was in Chengdu yesterday and apart from the cold there were clear blue skies.

 

You seem to confusing cloud with fine particulates, you can have toxic particles far above safe levels and also clear blue skies.

[ilostmypassword]

4 minutes ago, car720 said:

It would seem that your definition of facts and mine are somewhat different.

I could base my beliefs on what some online weather man tells me or I can stick my head out the window and see for myself.

Wow you must have really great vision to see those microscopic particles in the atmosphere. I'm impressed.

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, LaoPo said:

 

What do you expect from a country that was locked up for centuries and came out only since 20-30 years at an unbelievable speed with a population of almost 1.4 Billion people?

Of course many things have to be done, fixed and improved but I strongly believe that China will be in front, worldwide, that the majority of cars in China will be electrical powered in 10-15 years.

 

I don't know if you're from Taiwan but relatives of mine were in the south of Taiwan just 1,5 months ago and they were shocked by the poverty, bad infrastructure, lousy food and so on.

 

I can't judge about that since I havent been there lately but the report to all friends and family was: "I will never go back to Taiwan"...

 

See, it's all in the eyes of the beholder.

 

It's a shame that everyone is so fixated on electric cars which are an inefficient way to go and will cause massive problems with battery disposal.

Hydrogen fuel cell technology is the way to go, but due to big business will probably come to nothing.

 

Can be compared to the VDO system. Beta is a far superior system than VHS, but which system became dominant? The inferior one did. It's all about profit, and little about best.

Edited November 25, 2017 by thaibeachlovers

[LaoPo]

47 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

It's a shame that everyone is so fixated on electric cars which are an inefficient way to go and will cause massive problems with battery disposal.

Hydrogen fuel cell technology is the way to go, but due to big business will probably come to nothing.

 

Can be compared to the VDO system. Beta is a far superior system than VHS, but which system became dominant? The inferior one did. It's all about profit, and little about best.

 

Right: the multinationals decide which system is most profitable, but the world HAS to do something about building non-fuel powered cars and other transportation systems.

[stevenl]

1 hour ago, car720 said:

I don't see where this is going.  Recently there were 9 or so deaths in Australia from Storm Asthma because Australia has a very high dust and pollen content in the air but we never hear people speak about pollution in Australia.  I have no doubt that China has a pollution problem but people basing their beliefs on what they read on the internet is not a good thing.  As I said it is the same as saying that it must be so because facebook told me it is so.

No. Information is information, no matter where you can find it.

 

China has a polution problem, even though you can't see it.

[Kieran00001]

2 hours ago, car720 said:

I don't doubt your good intentions and your desire to educate but for me life is about first hand experiences and not what someone says on the internet.  I find the internet to be very informative but not always conclusive.  It is a bit like saying it must be true because facebook said so.

 

Yòu think you can smell PM 2.5?  How exactly would your first hand experience be more reliable that the air samples taken and analysed?