Catch 22 with Business Visa and not working

[ThaiM]

I am a frequent traveller to Thailand and I am now using a Tourist Visa every time I arrive.
In the future I am planning to invest in different business but I will not conduct any work.

I am a strong believer in having the right Visa but this is tricky one for me...

 

So if I am conducting business in Thailand I will need I Non immigrant B.

But I will not apply for work permit since I will not work in the business (I will only be a shareholder)  so after leaving Thailand I have to apply for new Non immigrant B Visa but I guess this will raise some flags because I didn't applied for Work Permit the first time.

Is it possible to apply for Non immigrant B year after year without completing in with a work permit?
 

I am not familiar to firm a company in Thailand but what is m options on this one if I need a work permit to keep my business visa?
I guess they need some description for my work duties...Can I write "shareholder" on the work permit application?

 

I guess there must be many people only investing in business and not conduct any type of work but how are they solving this problem?

Maybe I am missing some important part here?
What are my options?

(I have many years to live before retirement).

 

Sincerely

 

[jimster]

Yes it's not a problem. That's what the visa's purpose is for - either work OR business. Best apply for the multi-entry non-B in your home country. It can be applied for year on year. In neighboring countries you can't even get a single entry without either a work permit or application for work permit.

 

Coming in on endless tourist visas raises more suspicions.

[ThaiM]

7 minutes ago, jimster said:

Best apply for the multi-entry non-B in your home country. It can be applied for year on year.

Do you have a source on this?

[jenny2017]

OP, best way to apply for would be a Honorary Consulate in your country of residence.

 

    I remember my first application to Thailand many years ago when the employees of the consulate were telling me to apply for a Non- B visa when I'd mentioned that I wanted to stay longer.

 

  I had nothing in mind doing business, nor was I planning to work, but they continued when I  wanted to work that I'd need such a type.

 

 

  I think not too much has changed, and it shouldn't be a problem for you.

 

A  multiple entry must be very easy at a Thai consulate. 

 

The difference to an embassy is that you'll deal with people from your country. Best of luck. 

 

 

[ThaiM]

Just now, jenny2017 said:

OP, best way to apply for would be a Honorary Consulate in your country of residence.

 

    I remember my first application to Thailand many years ago where the employees of the consulate were telling me to apply for a Non- B visa when I'd mentioned that I wanted to stay longer.

 

  I had nothing in mind doing business, but they continued when I wanted to work that I'd need such a type.

 

 

  I think not too much has changed and it shouldn't be a problem for you. A  multiple entry must be very easy at a Thai consulate.

 

The difference to an embassy is that you'll deal with people from your country. Best of luck. 

 

 

And how can I get this:

 

8. A letter of invitation from trading or associated partners/companies in Thailand.

9. A copy of a Business Registration and a Business License  of trading or associated partners/companies in Thailand (not older than 6 months  and up to one year)

 

...when I will go to Thailand to conduct business but not yet have invest some money in the company?

[jenny2017]

1 minute ago, ThaiM said:

And how can I get this:

 

8. A letter of invitation from trading or associated partners/companies in Thailand.

9. A copy of a Business Registration and a Business License  of trading or associated partners/companies in Thailand (not older than 6 months  and up to one year)

 

...when I will go to Thailand to conduct business but not yet have invest some money in the company?

 

You might better wait for Ubon Joe, a very knowledgeable person on this topic.

 

   I'd think that calling them would answer all your questions and they'll tell you what they'd like to see.

 

  In my humble opinion, I'd think that point 8 of your list would (could) be enough.

 

  

[jenny2017]

I think that I get your point. You don't have to be concerned about any taxes now.

 

     Taxes start on the day when a work permit was being issued to you.

 

        You'll have to leave the country every 90 days, not a big deal. 

 

  

 

[ThaiM]

Just now, jenny2017 said:

I think that I get your point. You don't have to be concerned about any taxes now.

 

     Taxes start on the day when a work permit was being issued to you.

 

        You'll have to leave the country every 90 days, not a big deal. 

 

Nothing to do with taxes at all but I am a frequent traveller to Thailand (5-8 times every year) and if I want to conduct business in the future, which is my plan, I want to have the correct Visa so I don't get any problem for working in Thailand when I only invest in business...its tricky but honesty I think most people who do like me don't care and enter Thailand on visa exempts, still doing business, but this is not the correct way to do it.  

 

So I am trying to find a good solution and do it "the right way".

[PoorSucker]

An multiple non-B can be obtained in your country of residence if you have a business contract with an company there and your company in Thailand. 

So basically you need two companies signed up. 

For other purposes you need a work permit. 

[ThaiM]

Just now, PoorSucker said:

An multiple non-B can be obtained in your country of residence if you have a business contract with an company there and your company in Thailand. 

So basically you need two companies signed up. 

For other purposes you need a work permit. 

So I need one company in my residence country who has nothing to do with my future investment in Thailand? Sounds very strange to me...

 

And still I´m not planning to WORK, only conduct business.  Having a work permit for something I don't do I guess makes it illegal?

[PoorSucker]

1 minute ago, ThaiM said:

So I need one company in my residence country who has nothing to do with my future investment in Thailand? Sounds very strange to me...

 

And still I´m not planning to WORK, only conduct business.  Having a work permit for something I don't do I guess makes it illegal?

Non - B visas are for business or work, not for being shareholder. 

You need a company that sponsor your business trips from your home country or get a work permit. 

[PoorSucker]

6 minutes ago, ThaiM said:

And still I´m not planning to WORK, only conduct business. 

Be aware that you can not sign any company documents without a work permit. 

[ThaiM]

Just now, PoorSucker said:

Non - B visas are for business or work, not for being shareholder. 

You need a company that sponsor your business trips from your home country or get a work permit. 

But being a shareholder is "conducting" business right?

 

A company that sponsors my business trip?

Thai Embassy in my country need this:
8. A letter of invitation from trading or associated partners/companies in Thailand.

9. A copy of a Business Registration and a Business License  of trading or associated partners/companies in Thailand (not older than 6 months  and up to one year)

[ThaiM]

Just now, PoorSucker said:

Be aware that you can not sign any company documents without a work permit. 

This was one of my main questions.
I am aware of this so lets say I get a work permit only for this purpose, do they accept this as a work duties on the work permit application?

[PoorSucker]

Just now, ThaiM said:

This was one of my main questions.
I am aware of this so lets say I get a work permit only for this purpose, do they accept this as a work duties on the work permit application?

Yes, I am general manager on my work permit. 

You will need to employ four thais and have two million baht on balance sheet for every foreign employee. 

This is cut by half if you are married to a Thai. 

[PoorSucker]

6 minutes ago, ThaiM said:

But being a shareholder is "conducting" business right?

 

A company that sponsors my business trip?

Thai Embassy in my country need this:
8. A letter of invitation from trading or associated partners/companies in Thailand.

9. A copy of a Business Registration and a Business License  of trading or associated partners/companies in Thailand (not older than 6 months  and up to one year)

Associated company means your business company in Thailand, two companies. 

[ThaiM]

Just now, PoorSucker said:

Yes, I am general manager on my work permit. 

You will need to employ four thais and have two million baht on balance sheet for every foreign employee. 

This is cut by half if you are married to a Thai. 

And lets say I'm not general manager? Only an investor...
I think you get my problem here.
I just want to have the right type of Visa so I don't get any problem.

[ThaiM]

Just now, PoorSucker said:

Associated company means your business company in Thailand, two companies. 

Associated its not equal to two. Where do you get 2 from?

[PoorSucker]

15 minutes ago, ThaiM said:

Associated its not equal to two. Where do you get 2 from?

Your embassy wants letters from your associate company in Thailand, this is for business visas. 

They want to have papers from the company you are going to make business with. 

as·so·ci·at·ed

əˈsōsēˌādid,əˈsōSHēˌādid/

adjective

adjective: associated

1. (of a person or thing) connected with something else.

   "two associated events"

   synonyms:

   related, connected, linked, correlated, corresponding; More attendant, accompanying, incidental "salaries and associated costs"

   antonyms:

   unrelated

   • (of a company) connected or amalgamated with another company or companies.

     synonyms:

     related, connected, linked, correlated, corresponding; More attendant, accompanying, incidental "salaries and associated costs"

     antonyms:

     unrelated

 

[ThaiM]

4 minutes ago, PoorSucker said:

Your embassy wants letters from your associate company in Thailand, this is for business visas. 

They want to have papers from the company you are going to make business with. 

as·so·ci·at·ed

əˈsōsēˌādid,əˈsōSHēˌādid/

adjective

adjective: associated

1. (of a person or thing) connected with something else.

   "two associated events"

   synonyms:

   related, connected, linked, correlated, corresponding; More attendant, accompanying, incidental "salaries and associated costs"

   antonyms:

   unrelated

   • (of a company) connected or amalgamated with another company or companies.

     synonyms:

     related, connected, linked, correlated, corresponding; More attendant, accompanying, incidental "salaries and associated costs"

     antonyms:

     unrelated

 

This I already pointed out but you still don't answer my questions where you get TWO (2) companys from. You stated: " ...an company there and your company in Thailand.  "
I don't have a company in Thailand and what has my company in my residence country has to do with it at all?

I dint think you understand my situation;

Lets say me and my friends will go to Thailand and start a business.  
The correct Visa for this is a non immigrant B.
But regarding number 8 and 9 in my previous post this is IMPOSIBLE, right?

 

So back to my main question, If you want to go to Thailand and CONDUCT business but not work what is the proper Visa to get and how is this possible?
For example converting tourist visa to non immigrant B is not possible in my case because to do this you first need a work permit and I don't need a work permit.
I will not make up an work permit or do I have to do this?

[blackcab]

2 minutes ago, ThaiM said:

So back to my main question, If you want to go to Thailand and CONDUCT business but not work what is the proper Visa to get and how is this possible?

 

Please define what you mean by the word, "conduct". Exactly what would you be doing?

 

Without knowing this information it is difficult to give you a clear answer.

[ThaiM]

Just now, blackcab said:

 

Please define what you mean by the word, "conduct". Exactly what would you be doing?

 

Without knowing this information it is difficult to give you a clear answer.

Own company's, be a shareholder in some, invest money in some other company's.

 

All with valid documents but I will not sign any paper or do any kind of work in Thailand so that's why I don't need or want to give fake information on a work permit.

[BritTim]

Reading through this thread, I have a feeling that you fall somewhere between an investment visa and a business visa. You may find it difficult to get an appropriate visa and extension of stay if you do not fall into one or other of these categories.

 

If you do end up needing a work permit, I would not worry too much about the semantics of your job description, as long as your activities are not clearly out of the scope. Maybe, something like "executive management" would work.

 

One piece of advice you were given is now well out of date. There is zero chance an honorary consulate would be allowed to issue you with a multiple entry Non B (business) or Non IB (business and investment). You will need to deal with the embassy.

 

While requirements are liable to vary between different embassies, you can get a general flavor of the requirements from http://www.mfa.go.th/main/en/services/4908/15388-Non-Immigrant-Visa-"B"-(for-Business-and.html

[FritsSikkink]

3 hours ago, ThaiM said:

But being a shareholder is "conducting" business right?

 

A company that sponsors my business trip?

Thai Embassy in my country need this:
8. A letter of invitation from trading or associated partners/companies in Thailand.

9. A copy of a Business Registration and a Business License  of trading or associated partners/companies in Thailand (not older than 6 months  and up to one year)

Are you:

1) only buying shares 

2) making decisions about how the company should work?

 

if 1) then this can be a solution: https://www.sunbeltasia.com/investment-visa

if 2) you need a non imm B and a work permit

 

[PoorSucker]

7 hours ago, ThaiM said:

So back to my main question, If you want to go to Thailand and CONDUCT business but not work what is the proper Visa to get and how is this possible?

The correct visa in this case is the investment visa. 

You will need to invest 10 million baht. 

[elviajero]

14 hours ago, ThaiM said:

I dint think you understand my situation;

Lets say me and my friends will go to Thailand and start a business.  
The correct Visa for this is a non immigrant B.

You don't need a Non 'B' visa to conduct business, or to start a business. You can do both, legally, with a Tourist Visa or Tourist Visa Exempt entry.

 

Conducting business in Thailand is an activity not considered "work".

 

 

[jenny2017]

11 hours ago, BritTim said:

Reading through this thread, I have a feeling that you fall somewhere between an investment visa and a business visa. You may find it difficult to get an appropriate visa and extension of stay if you do not fall into one or other of these categories.

 

If you do end up needing a work permit, I would not worry too much about the semantics of your job description, as long as your activities are not clearly out of the scope. Maybe, something like "executive management" would work.

 

One piece of advice you were given is now well out of date. There is zero chance an honorary consulate would be allowed to issue you with a multiple entry Non B (business) or Non IB (business and investment). You will need to deal with the embassy.

 

While requirements are liable to vary between different embassies, you can get a general flavor of the requirements from http://www.mfa.go.th/main/en/services/4908/15388-Non-Immigrant-Visa-"B"-(for-Business-and.html

Thanks a lot, and my sincere apologies for not correct advice. I thought it would still be as easy. 

[ThaiM]

5 minutes ago, elviajero said:

You don't need a Non 'B' visa to conduct business, or to start a business. You can do both, legally, with a Tourist Visa or Tourist Visa Exempt entry.

 

Conducting business in Thailand is an activity not considered "work".

 

 

I see your point but I have a hard time to see how the immigration will think the same when they ask what I do in Thailand.

[elviajero]

1 minute ago, ThaiM said:

I see your point but I have a hard time to see how the immigration will think the same when they ask what I do in Thailand.

They won't have a problem because it is on the exempt list. 

 

They do not want to prevent business people from coming to Thailand and doing business.

 

As long as you aren't working for the business you set up you will have absolutely no problem.

 

[ThaiM]

Just now, elviajero said:

They won't have a problem because it is on the exempt list. 

 

They do not want to prevent business people from coming to Thailand and doing business.

 

As long as you aren't working for the business you set up you will have absolutely no problem.

 

Yes you are probably right but lets say I need sign a document then its consider work so then I need a work permit as a "paper signer"...

And do you have a specific list of what is considering work and not work for a company?