Enclosed balcony? how much u pay?

[Destiny1990]

Friend of mine is considering and he is allowed by the juristic comitee to partially enclose his balcony about 3,5 Meters wide in order to extend his kitchen all the way till the edge of his balcony. Did anyone do this and what did it cost? He needs to break down his kitchen wall then built a new wall at his balcony edge and put the upperpart full with windows and then reattach his sink  and the under the sinc cabinets and his counter top to the new wall. What costs should he expect? He also need to close the side of his extension on one side with a wall and upperpart window. He still can use 50% of his balcony since its about 7 meters in total.

Edited November 23, 2017 by Destiny1990

[trogers]

Putting windows on a balcony wall would result in dirt streaks flowing down the outside surface of the balcony wall. Is that how the facade of the building looks presently in room units that have been renovated?

[Destiny1990]

35 minutes ago, trogers said:

Putting windows on a balcony wall would result in dirt streaks flowing down the outside surface of the balcony wall. Is that how the facade of the building looks presently in room units that have been renovated?

Only some units in the building did that extension.

[trogers]

The dirt streaks come from the accumulation of dust that would be washed down by rain.

 

Back to your question. Budget Bt3,000 per sqm for vertical element using single glass pane with aluminium frames. Budget Bt30-50k per metre for cabinets, excluding electrical goods.

 

Price ceiling and floor elements according to the type of treatment.

[Destiny1990]

6 hours ago, trogers said:

The dirt streaks come from the accumulation of dust that would be washed down by rain.

 

Back to your question. Budget Bt3,000 per sqm for vertical element using single glass pane with aluminium frames. Budget Bt30-50k per metre for cabinets, excluding electrical goods.

 

Price ceiling and floor elements according to the type of treatment.

I think u correct about the dirt streak that will effect units under mine is there a good way to prevent this? It seems a big price difference between glass panels and some wood cabinets? By the way the wood cabinets and the sink are already in the unit so it only needs to be relocated towards the balcony.so that glass wall is about 9sqm makes 27000 then to reinstall and relocate the cabinets and the sink maybe 30,000? Plus another 25,000 for additional costs lets make it 90k is it doable without tiling and electrical? For an extended kitchen on a partially enclosed balcony?

Edited November 24, 2017 by Destiny1990

[trogers]

5 minutes ago, Destiny1990 said:

Seems a huge price difference between glass panels and some wood cabinets? By the way the wood cabinets and the sink are already in the unit its only needs to be relocated towards the balcony.so that glass wall about 9sqm makes 27000 then to reinstall relocate cabinets sink maybe 30,000? Plus another 25,000 for additional costs lets make it 90k is it doable without tiling and electrical.

If relocating existing cabinets, you probably get only 30% discount from my earlier budget. A large cost item would be the type of material for the countertop, and the type of finishing on the cabinets that has to be made good.

 

Maybe cheaper to buy those ready-made aluminium based pantry set, as wood-based cabinets are not suitable for a partial enclosed area of the balcony.

[Denim]

What floor is the apartment on ?

 Don't forget the outside of the new wall will need to be rendered and painted. Might be difficult to find a proper builder if the apartment is on upper floors.

[trogers]

Just now, Denim said:

What floor is the apartment on ?

 Don't forget the outside of the new wall will need to be rendered and painted. Might be difficult to find a proper builder if the apartment is on upper floors.

I don't think there is any new wall. Just a 3.5m long window system on top of the balcony wall to the soffit of the concrete ceiling at the balcony. That means the balustrade of the balcony is already a solid wall.

[Denim]

3 minutes ago, trogers said:

I don't think there is any new wall. Just a 3.5m long window system on top of the balcony wall to the soffit of the concrete ceiling at the balcony. That means the balustrade of the balcony is already a solid wall.

 

That's a lot of glass. Will get pretty hot on the inside.

[trogers]

8 minutes ago, Denim said:

 

That's a lot of glass. Will get pretty hot on the inside.

If the Juristic allows such an extensive change to the balcony, the use of reflective glass is assumed.

 

Also, this area will still be opened to breeze and wind, thus my suggestion to use aluminium-based pantry units.

[trogers]

Dirt streak can be minimised by frequent cleaning of those windows. That means the window system should be designed to open to allow cleaning.

[Destiny1990]

The kitchen will be enclosed fully.

 I only mean there is still also a normal open balcony area to enjoy.

The outerwall of my enclosed kitchen will be from the ground up bricks cement till about one meter high. So right above my kitchen sink level.Then that wall will continue be glass panels slide able about 120 cm high and then bricks again till ceiling. There is no sun shining in.

[Destiny1990]

50 minutes ago, trogers said:

I don't think there is any new wall. Just a 3.5m long window system on top of the balcony wall to the soffit of the concrete ceiling at the balcony. That means the balustrade of the balcony is already a solid wall.

Yes u are basically very correct! But ofcourse needs some adjustments but thats the situation.

[trogers]

Just now, Destiny1990 said:

Yes u are basically very correct! But ofcourse needs some adjustments but thats the situation.

I would view an open kitchen at the balcony for frying and cooking that produces much fumes. Maintain the existing kitchen inside for boiling and use of microwave and oven.

[Destiny1990]

1 minute ago, trogers said:

I would view an open kitchen at the balcony for frying and cooking that produces much fumes. Maintain the existing kitchen inside for boiling and use of microwave and oven.

Well the reasons are just to get a bigger inside kitchen and to enhance the views from the kitchen.

[trogers]

16 minutes ago, Destiny1990 said:

The kitchen will be enclosed fully.

 I only mean there is still also a normal open balcony area to enjoy.

The outerwall of my enclosed kitchen will be from the ground up bricks cement till about one meter high. So right above my kitchen sink level.Then that wall will continue be glass panels slide able about 120 cm high and then bricks again till ceiling. There is no sun shining in.

Then you need to remeasure the length of the window system. The window system for full enclosure may be more than 9 sqm.

[Destiny1990]

5 minutes ago, trogers said:

Then you need to remeasure the length of the window system. The window system for full enclosure may be more than 9 sqm.

Yes a bit more because also the side wall the divider  between balcony and kitchen needs be placed a wall of one meter high and glass on top. 16-18 sqm more accurate combi of bricks and glass panels. 

Edited November 24, 2017 by Destiny1990

[Destiny1990]

@Trogers what glass typ would u advise?

i will not add that much more extra glass to the unit.maybe only 6sqm of extra glass i only bring glass more to the edge of my balcony. No direct sun.

would u go for double glass, laminated, E glass ,Pvc?

[trogers]

10 minutes ago, Destiny1990 said:

@Trogers what glass typ would u advise?

i will not add that much more extra glass to the unit.maybe only 6sqm of extra glass i only bring glass more to the edge of my balcony. No direct sun.

would u go for double glass, laminated, E glass ,Pvc?

If the balcony faces north (not much sun) safety glass is a must, thus laminated glass. Note, window frames are to be fixed to the soffit of concrete, and not to the false ceiling. Thus, remeasure the height of your windows.

[Destiny1990]

17 minutes ago, trogers said:

If the balcony faces north (not much sun) safety glass is a must, thus laminated glass. Note, window frames are to be fixed to the soffit of concrete, and not to the false ceiling. Thus, remeasure the height of your windows.

Yes the old windows are attached from all sides to the concrete.This will be the same With the new windows. Thanks will look for the laminated glass.

[Delight]

 The Juristic Connittee has no authority to grant your friend this privilege

 

The outside look of the building will be changed

The condominium act refers to this circumstance

i.e Section 48  paragraph 3

 

It states

Section 48 A resolution on the following matters must have the votes of not less than a half of the total votes of the joint owners:

1. A purchase of real estate or acceptance as a gift of real estate with the encumbered charge being the common property,

2. A disposition of common property being the real estate,

3. A permission to a joint owner to build, decorate, make a change in, alteration on or addition to his own unit at his own expenses which adversely affect the common property or the external features of the condominium,

4. An alteration on or a change in the Bylaws relating to the use or management of the common property,

5. An alteration on or a change in the ratio of the common expenses in the Bylaws defined under Section 32 (8),

6. A construction deemed to be a change in, addition to or modification on the common property,

7. An arrangement for the exploitation from the common property.

[Destiny1990]

37 minutes ago, Delight said:

 The Juristic Connittee has no authority to grant your friend this privilege

 

The outside look of the building will be changed

The condominium act refers to this circumstance

i.e Section 48  paragraph 3

 

It states

Section 48 A resolution on the following matters must have the votes of not less than a half of the total votes of the joint owners:

 

1. A purchase of real estate or acceptance as a gift of real estate with the encumbered charge being the common property,

    

2. A disposition of common property being the real estate,

    

3. A permission to a joint owner to build, decorate, make a change in, alteration on or addition to his own unit at his own expenses which adversely affect the common property or the external features of the condominium,

    

4. An alteration on or a change in the Bylaws relating to the use or management of the common property,

    

5. An alteration on or a change in the ratio of the common expenses in the Bylaws defined under Section 32 (8),

    

6. A construction deemed to be a change in, addition to or modification on the common property,

    

7. An arrangement for the exploitation from the common property.

    

U need submit the plans documentated then its get a green or a red light since others done it in the past its not impossible 

[Delight]

52 minutes ago, Destiny1990 said:

U need submit the plans documentated then its get a green or a red light since others done it in the past its not impossible 

It may be possible.

it's just not legal

 

The Juristic Person Manager is responsible for keeping the committee on the right side of the law

Suspect that the process is failing there.

 

A enraged co owner who does know the law could take the matter to the land office.

They could rule that  all the changes have to be reversed

Edited November 24, 2017 by Delight
Spelling

[KittenKong]

12 hours ago, trogers said:

Putting windows on a balcony wall would result in dirt streaks flowing down the outside surface of the balcony wall.

 

They invented window sills to solve that problem. Many shapes and styles are available.

 

If properly installed there should be no staining.

 

[trogers]

31 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

 

They invented window sills to solve that problem. Many shapes and styles are available.

 

If properly installed there should be no staining.

 

Two problems here. The width of the top of the balcony is probably only 3-4 inches wide and laid flat to receive the window frame. Not wide enough to have a sill piece, unlike in the UK that has a wide one due to the use of cavity walls.

[Morakot]

 

6 hours ago, Delight said:

 The Juristic Connittee has no authority to grant your friend this privilege

4 hours ago, Delight said:

it's just not legal

 

That's a total overstatement of  the situation!

 

What precisely is meant by 'adversely affect [...] the external features of the condominium'  is a matter of interpretation and would require court ruling.

 

Yes indeed someone may legally challenge this modification via expensive and probably prolonged litigation. That's life, but it does not mean it's "illegal"  to start with.

Edited November 24, 2017 by Morakot

[KittenKong]

4 hours ago, trogers said:

Two problems here. The width of the top of the balcony is probably only 3-4 inches wide and laid flat to receive the window frame. Not wide enough to have a sill piece, unlike in the UK that has a wide one due to the use of cavity walls.

 

Obviously a sill as pictured would not fit, but for a sill to work you only need an overhang of about an inch or so, and a recessed drip edge underneath. I used to have one on a 4 inch wall in Europe, with a flush window above it. In fact in Europe the sill (or flashing if you prefer) was optionally built into the aluminium window frame itself, and the whole thing was fitted as one piece.

 

 

[trogers]

2 hours ago, KittenKong said:

 

Obviously a sill as pictured would not fit, but for a sill to work you only need an overhang of about an inch or so, and a recessed drip edge underneath. I used to have one on a 4 inch wall in Europe, with a flush window above it. In fact in Europe the sill (or flashing if you prefer) was optionally built into the aluminium window frame itself, and the whole thing was fitted as one piece.

 

 

Suitable for detached homes, but not for condos, as there would be the question of where it is to begin and end, and how the dirty water would be blown and splash from the drip edges...

[lkn]

*deleted*

Edited November 24, 2017 by lkn
Didn’t read the full thread before commenting

[lkn]

3 hours ago, Morakot said:

What precisely is meant by 'adversely affect [...] the external features of the condominium'  is a matter of interpretation and would require court ruling.

True that a court ruling is required, however, the Thai Condo Act is there to protect the joint owners, so I don’t think you’d find many judges that would interpret the Act as allowing building a new external wall w/o approval from the other joint owners.

 

And the Act even has section 72 that says how much a co-owner, violating section 48 (3), can be fined.