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Ten days to crack Brexit deal, EU tells May

By Alastair Macdonald and Elizabeth Piper

 

Britain's Prime Minister Theresa May and Britain's EU Ambassador Tim Sparrow attend the Eastern Partnership summit at the European Council Headquarters in Brussels, Belgium, November 24, 2017. REUTERS/Christian Hartmann

 

BRUSSELS (Reuters) - The European Union handed Prime Minister Theresa May a 10-day "absolute deadline" to improve her Brexit divorce offer or face failure in persuading EU leaders to open trade talks with Britain at a December summit.

 

Without a deal next month, time will be very tight to agree arrangements before Britain leaves the EU in March 2019, adding to pressure on businesses to avoid potential losses and move investments.

 

"We need to see progress from UK within 10 days on all issues, including on Ireland," European Council President Donald Tusk tweeted after meeting May in Brussels for one hour following an EU summit.

 

A deal on the Northern Ireland border became suddenly trickier on Friday as the Dublin government looked set to fall.

 

Tusk said it was still possible the other 27 EU leaders would conclude at a summit on Dec. 14-15 that Britain had made "sufficient progress" toward meeting three key conditions for them to approve the opening of trade talks in the new year.

 

But, added the former Polish premier who chairs the bloc's summit meetings, that was "still a huge challenge".

 

EU officials expect the crunch to come when May returns on Monday, Dec. 4, to meet the EU chief executive, European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker, and his chief Brexit negotiator Michel Barnier.

 

"Tusk presented the timeline ... with December 4 as the absolute deadline for the UK to make additional efforts, allowing Barnier to be in a position to recommend sufficient progress," an EU official said. "May agreed to this time frame."

 

"The UK will need to give credible assurances as to how to avoid a hard border before December 4, as it is still unclear how this can be done," the official added.

 

A further complication lay in Ireland, where Prime Minister Leo Varadkar, who has warned of a veto without big British moves on the border issue, may call a snap election next week over a separate issue.

 

May told reporters after meeting Tusk that the two sides were still making progress toward closing gaps on a financial settlement, rights for expatriates after Brexit and how to avoid a "hard border" that may disrupt the peace in Northern Ireland.

 

But she added: "There are still issues across the various matters that we are negotiating on to be resolved."

 

She repeated a line she first used in September that Britain would "honour our commitments". But there was no sign of details that EU counterparts are demanding over payments before they accede to London's call for talks on a post-Brexit trade pact.

 

On the Irish border, May said: "We and the Irish government continue to talk about solutions for that. We have the same desire. We want to ensure that movement of people and trade across that border can carry on as now."

 

IRISH ISSUE

 

For months, the EU's demand for Britain to pay something like 60 billion euros ($72 billion) has seemed the toughest nut to crack. But EU negotiators have been encouraged by apparent leaks in the British media indicating that May has won backing from Brexit hardliners in her cabinet to offer a large sum.

 

Now, Ireland could be a sticking point.

 

"The Irish issue is very worrying. The chances of sufficient progress in December were only 50-50. Now maybe less," an official handling Brexit talks from one of the other 27 EU states told Reuters on the sidelines of Friday's summit.

 

Barnier threw the Union's weight behind Ireland on Friday, telling Irish Foreign Minister Simon Coveney there was "strong solidarity for Ireland" and "Irish issues are EU issues".

 

Coveney, who accused the government's opponents of being irresponsible in calling a no-confidence motion for Tuesday over an unrelated issue, said Ireland would not agree to opening EU trade talks with Britain if it was unhappy over the border.

 

May's Northern Irish, pro-Brexit allies, on whom she depends for a slim parliamentary majority, accused Dublin of trying to force Northern Ireland, or the whole of the United Kingdom, to stay in a customs union with the EU, depriving it of the freedom to set its own commercial regulations.

 

EU officials say the best way to avoid a "hard border" is to keep regulations the same - whether just for Northern Ireland or across the UK. Britain has rejected the former because it would divide Northern Ireland from the British mainland. Brexit campaigners say Britain should not have to follow EU rules.

 

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-11-25

[Samui Bodoh]

I truly do not understand what the UK is doing. Does it not understand the peril facing it?

 

The UK said that it wanted to renegotiate aspects of the EU, then it would decide if it would stay or not. The negotiations occurred, the UK had a referendum and decided to leave.

 

The EU owes the UK absolutely sweet <deleted>

 

On the other hand, the UK desperately needs a good free-trade arrangement with the EU in order to secure its economic future outside of the block. Failure to achieve this would mean that it was outside all major global trading associations, and the long term repercussions of that are essentially economic decline.

 

And yet, with the massive importance of this particular time, the UK is dragging its ass.

 

Is it trying to destroy its future?

 

I don't get it...

 

Edited November 24, 2017 by metisdead
Profane acronym removed.

[steve187]

40 minutes ago, Samui Bodoh said:

 

On the other hand, the UK desperately needs a good free-trade arrangement with the EU in order to secure its economic future outside of the block. Failure to achieve this would mean that it was outside all major global trading associations, and the long term repercussions of that are essentially economic decline.

 

 

what is the WTO then,

it seems to me that the EU is doing all the talking everywhere, except in the negotiating rooms.

 

they are negotiating or not through the media

[Get Real]

Mayday, Mayday! Mother Theresa is running out of time.

[retarius]

How many EU deadlines are we going to have. They (the EU) are negotiating in bad faith, to punish Britain, not to do the right thing.

May should tell the EU that we will give them nothing for the divorce. A payment of the net we would have made for 3 years might be reasonable to settle on ie about 12 billion Eu (the EU have a massive hole in their budget which is leverage for Britain).

May should signal our desire for an immediate hard Brexit and no payment whatsoever. If they offer a good faith negotiation then we can fall back to pay 12 billion at the conclusion of a successful negotiation of a trade deal. Hard Brexit is infinitely preferred to this nightmare of uncertainty. Uncertainty kills investment. 

[dunroaming]

5 hours ago, retarius said:

Hard Brexit is infinitely preferred to this nightmare of uncertainty. Uncertainty kills investment. 

Uncertainty does kill investment and Britain is already feeling the effects of that and so is the pound.  However if Britain walks away from the EU without a positive trade deal then the markets (and the pound) would collapse and Britain would be deep in the brown stuff.  But far more relevant at the moment is the Irish border issue and that could determine our fate over Brexit.  It isn't just about the money and Britain have more or less committed to a payment of at least 40 billion for an "ambitious" trade deal.

[Baerboxer]

8 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

I truly do not understand what the UK is doing. Does it not understand the peril facing it?

 

The UK said that it wanted to renegotiate aspects of the EU, then it would decide if it would stay or not. The negotiations occurred, the UK had a referendum and decided to leave.

 

The EU owes the UK absolutely sweet <deleted>

 

On the other hand, the UK desperately needs a good free-trade arrangement with the EU in order to secure its economic future outside of the block. Failure to achieve this would mean that it was outside all major global trading associations, and the long term repercussions of that are essentially economic decline.

 

And yet, with the massive importance of this particular time, the UK is dragging its ass.

 

Is it trying to destroy its future?

 

I don't get it...

 

 

It takes both or parties to negotiate; and all parties have to be wanting to negotiate.

 

The EU simply keep demanding the UK does this or does that; makes an offer, increases the offer.

 

Not heard the EU talk of "we" or actually working to arrive at meaningful numbers by consensus.

 

Many EU politicians are very pleases to see the back of the UK, as the UK were the most important block to their vision of a fully integrated federal EU super state with all financial controls at EU level, backed by the EU court and law system, enforced by EU police and military. And those politicians want to get as much as they can from the UK for as little as possible.

Forget negotiation in those circumstances - it won't happen. May knows that, but has no idea what to do about it. The likes of Corbyn and Sturgeon are either to stupid to realize it, or more likely, happy to deceive the electorate in thinking they could somehow deal with it better and promising a deal - which they also have no idea how or what that would be or entail.

 

It was never going to end well. And forces in the EU want to ensure it ends very badly for their own agendas.

 

All the other spouting is pretense.

[dunroaming]

19 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

It was never going to end well. And forces in the EU want to ensure it ends very badly for their own agendas.

I think you are absolutely right.  But none of this should come as a surprise.  It never was going to end well as you say.  The EU are taking the position they were always going to take but unfortunately many of the voters believed all the leave campaigns bull about everything being better after Brexit.  It won't and it was never going to be.  Now it is just damage limitation and that isn't going well.  Not well at all!

[steve187]

1 hour ago, dunroaming said:

I think you are absolutely right.  But none of this should come as a surprise.  It never was going to end well as you say.  The EU are taking the position they were always going to take but unfortunately many of the voters believed all the leave campaigns bull about everything being better after Brexit.  It won't and it was never going to be.  Now it is just damage limitation and that isn't going well.  Not well at all!

just your lay persons thoughts

[Samui Bodoh]

1 hour ago, Baerboxer said:

 

It takes both or parties to negotiate; and all parties have to be wanting to negotiate.

 

The EU simply keep demanding the UK does this or does that; makes an offer, increases the offer.

 

Not heard the EU talk of "we" or actually working to arrive at meaningful numbers by consensus.

 

Many EU politicians are very pleases to see the back of the UK, as the UK were the most important block to their vision of a fully integrated federal EU super state with all financial controls at EU level, backed by the EU court and law system, enforced by EU police and military. And those politicians want to get as much as they can from the UK for as little as possible.

Forget negotiation in those circumstances - it won't happen. May knows that, but has no idea what to do about it. The likes of Corbyn and Sturgeon are either to stupid to realize it, or more likely, happy to deceive the electorate in thinking they could somehow deal with it better and promising a deal - which they also have no idea how or what that would be or entail.

 

It was never going to end well. And forces in the EU want to ensure it ends very badly for their own agendas.

 

All the other spouting is pretense.

Thanks for your post @Baerboxer, but it wasn't really necessary; the situation is quite clear. 

 

Either the UK is going to leave the EU with some kind of trade deal for the future, or it is going to leave with nothing. And the EU doesn't care which. And to be blunt, why should they?

 

Respectfully, all of you seemed to have missed the point of my post.

 

The EU doesn't owe the UK anything, it has no reason to negotiate in good faith or even at all. It is the UK that wants/needs a deal and (in my opinion) needs one very badly.

 

If the UK decides that it needs a deal (again, IMO it does), then the UK is the supplicant in this situation. Suck it up, bite your tongue, and prepare for some ugly times; that is the price you have to pay. Stop complaining and pay it.

 

If the UK decides that it doesn't need a deal then walk away, today. This hour. This minute.

 

This "maybe we will, maybe we won't" is hurting your reputation and future prospects.

 

Cheers

[nausea]

Babies, we're playing poker here and who will crack first, a Nation's destiny dependent on a hand of poker. 

[Samui Bodoh]

10 minutes ago, nausea said:

Babies, we're playing poker here and who will crack first, a Nation's destiny dependent on a hand of poker. 

Respectfully, you are mistaken.

 

The EU has a full house, and knows beyond a shadow of a doubt that the UK has a pair of threes.

 

The sooner the UK realizes this, the better.

 

Pride goeth...

 

Edited November 25, 2017 by Samui Bodoh

[Khun Han]

53 minutes ago, Samui Bodoh said:

Thanks for your post @Baerboxer, but it wasn't really necessary; the situation is quite clear. 

 

Either the UK is going to leave the EU with some kind of trade deal for the future, or it is going to leave with nothing.And the EU doesn't care which. And to be blunt, why should they?

 

 

Respectfully, all of you seemed to have missed the point of my post.

 

The EU doesn't owe the UK anything, it has no reason to negotiate in good faith or even at all. It is the UK that wants/needs a deal and (in my opinion) needs one very badly.

 

If the UK decides that it needs a deal (again, IMO it does), then the UK is the supplicant in this situation. Suck it up, bite your tongue, and prepare for some ugly times; that is the price you have to pay. Stop complaining and pay it.

 

If the UK decides that it doesn't need a deal then walk away, today. This hour. This minute.

 

This "maybe we will, maybe we won't" is hurting your reputation and future prospects.

 

Cheers

 

"And the EU doesn't care which. And to be blunt, why should they?"

 

Because It needs our money to stay solvent.

 

"If the UK decides that it doesn't need a deal then walk away, today. This hour. This minute."

 

I agree. But the powerful and disruptive remain grouping has made it politically impossible to do so.

[Khun Han]

57 minutes ago, Samui Bodoh said:

Respectfully, you are mistaken.

 

The EU has a full house, and knows beyond a shadow of a doubt that the UK has a pair of threes.

 

The sooner the UK realizes this, the better.

 

Pride goeth...

 

 

The UK actually has a very strong hand if remain politicians stop trying to disrupt brexit. The problem is not the EU's strength (which is a paper tiger). The problem is home-grown.

[Thongkorn]

People are getting tired of this woman , she is delivering  what people did not vote for , She is watering down Everything the leavers wanted, Border Control, Eu Law, these are what The people wanted, Just tell the EU to swivel , If its a divorce as THEY keep telling us. Where is our 50% of the marriage arrangements, and goods. When Are we going to get reimbursement of our investment back. I remember Joining A COMMON TRADE MARKET , Not a political business cartell,

[Kasset Tak]

9 hours ago, retarius said:

How many EU deadlines are we going to have. They (the EU) are negotiating in bad faith, to punish Britain, not to do the right thing.

May should tell the EU that we will give them nothing for the divorce. A payment of the net we would have made for 3 years might be reasonable to settle on ie about 12 billion Eu (the EU have a massive hole in their budget which is leverage for Britain).

May should signal our desire for an immediate hard Brexit and no payment whatsoever. If they offer a good faith negotiation then we can fall back to pay 12 billion at the conclusion of a successful negotiation of a trade deal. Hard Brexit is infinitely preferred to this nightmare of uncertainty. Uncertainty kills investment. 

So, EU should implement:
UK's border checkpoints will not be in France anymore.
British expats living in EU countries need visa and be denied health services without private health insurances.
300% import tolls to EU on goods made in UK.
Full taxation on companies in EU that has their headquarters in UK (today you can get around things like that and only pay tax in 1 EU country).

 

Are there anything else you want?
UK need EU more than EU need UK! 

[Jip99]

3 minutes ago, Kasset Tak said:

So, EU should implement:
UK's border checkpoints will not be in France anymore.
British expats living in EU countries need visa and be denied health services without private health insurances.
300% import tolls to EU on goods made in UK.
Full taxation on companies in EU that has their headquarters in UK (today you can get around things like that and only pay tax in 1 EU country).

 

Are there anything else you want?
UK need EU more than EU need UK! 

 

 

You have managed to make it sound like Thailand.?

 

UK will do quite nicely without the bureaucracy of the EU. Countries of the EU will still need the valuable  trade with the UK.

Edited November 25, 2017 by Jip99

[dunroaming]

2 hours ago, steve187 said:

just your lay persons thoughts

Absolutely, just like all of us and I hope I am totally wrong.  Unfortunately it is all pointing the other way at the moment

 

1 hour ago, Khun Han said:

 

"And the EU doesn't care which. And to be blunt, why should they?"

 

Because It needs our money to stay solvent.

 

"If the UK decides that it doesn't need a deal then walk away, today. This hour. This minute."

 

I agree. But the powerful and disruptive remain grouping has made it politically impossible to do so.

And May seems pretty keen on giving them our money

 

And I am very interesting in how you think the "remain grouping" are making anything impossible?  Who are these people and what exactly are they doing?

[dunroaming]

13 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

You have managed to make it sound like Thailand.?

 

UK will do quite nicely without the bureaucracy of the EU. Countries of the EU will still need the valuable  trade with the UK.

Well you had better tell May that then because she is running around like a headless chicken and promising billions of pounds in the hope that the EU will give us some sort of trade deal. 

[Jip99]

17 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

Well you had better tell May that then because she is running around like a headless chicken and promising billions of pounds in the hope that the EU will give us some sort of trade deal. 

 

 

£/€40 bn was always going out....no news there, move on.

[dunroaming]

10 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

£/€40 bn was always going out....no news there, move on.

I agree so why are so many of the Brexiteers screaming about it as if it is some sort of surprise?  The fact remains that the government are desperate to get a decent trade deal and will pay whatever it takes to get it.  Why would the UK need to do that if the EU will still need the "valuable trade with the UK"?

[Khun Han]

3 hours ago, dunroaming said:

Absolutely, just like all of us and I hope I am totally wrong.  Unfortunately it is all pointing the other way at the moment

 

And May seems pretty keen on giving them our money

 

And I am very interesting in how you think the "remain grouping" are making anything impossible?  Who are these people and what exactly are they doing?

 

Inside parliament: Umunna, Soubry, Starmer, Grieve, Morgan, Abbott, Clarke, Heseltine.....

 

Outside parliament: Clegg, Blair, Mandelson, Campbell, Miller, Carney.....

 

How long do you like your lists? You could just attend the "Exit from Brexit" dinner at the Carlton Tower hotel on December the fifth, where will get to meet a lot of them and hear their strategies for disrupting brexit.

[Khun Han]

8 hours ago, Kasset Tak said:

So, EU should implement:
UK's border checkpoints will not be in France anymore.
British expats living in EU countries need visa and be denied health services without private health insurances.
300% import tolls to EU on goods made in UK.
Full taxation on companies in EU that has their headquarters in UK (today you can get around things like that and only pay tax in 1 EU country).

 

Are there anything else you want?
UK need EU more than EU need UK! 

 

Another of our bitter European brethren whistling in the graveyard. Why do you want to see the UK (and especially expats) punished if it's no big deal us leaving?

[Khun Han]

^And with that cute little emoticon, Samui Bodoh's mask of 'impartial observer' falls to the floor with a loud clunk .

[Samui Bodoh]

2 hours ago, Khun Han said:

^And with that cute little emoticon, Samui Bodoh's mask of 'impartial observer' falls to the floor with a loud clunk .

What makes you think I am an impartial observer? I am an outside observer; there is a difference.

 

The post you responded to made the point that the UK needs the EU MUCH more than the EU needs the UK; this is a notion that I strongly agree with. For reasons that are inexplicable to me, you do not seem to get that; that is what I find sad.

 

FYI, I think Brexit is the stupidest decision a country, any country, has made in a very, very long time. Further, the actions undertaken by the UK government to implement the leaving process have been textbook examples of incompetence. Finally, I think the UK is going to spend the next twenty years plus silently regretting its actions.

 

Have a nice day.

 

Edited November 26, 2017 by Samui Bodoh

[whatsupdoc]

4 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

Another of our bitter European brethren whistling in the graveyard. Why do you want to see the UK (and especially expats) punished if it's no big deal us leaving?

Brexit is a lose-lose situation (only the damage for the UK will be much higher than for the EU). It is no surprise that the EU is irritated by the impossible 'have cake and eat it' attitude in the UK.

Especially the NI border issue seems the best example: how can you avoid having a hard border when you leave the CU?? Yet that is what the Tories and DUP want. Wishful thinking, but no practical solution is offered by the UK.

 

To me, a very hard Brexit seems almost inevitable because time is really running out. Perhaps the EU will be kind enough to offer the UK a Canada type trade deal, but it is going to be take it or leave it because there isn't time for anything else.

But the UK government keeps on dreaming and stalling, to the detriment of all parties. No wonder the EU gets bitter.

 

The EU doesn't want to punish the UK, it just has to  protect its own interests.

[Khun Han]

1 hour ago, Samui Bodoh said:

What makes you think I am an impartial observer? I am an outside observer; there is a difference.

 

The post you responded to made the point that the UK needs the EU MUCH more than the EU needs the UK; this is a notion that I strongly agree with. For reasons that are inexplicable to me, you do not seem to get that; that is what I find sad.

 

FYI, I think Brexit is the stupidest decision a country, any country, has made in a very, very long time. Further, the actions undertaken by the UK government to implement the leaving process have been textbook examples of incompetence. Finally, I think the UK is going to spend the next twenty years plus silently regretting its actions.

 

Have a nice day.

 

 

As stated by our European brother Kasset Tak in the post which you 'liked':

 

"So, EU should implement:
UK's border checkpoints will not be in France anymore.
British expats living in EU countries need visa and be denied health services without private health insurances.
300% import tolls to EU on goods made in UK."

 

Notice anything bitter or vindictive about the above requests? No, thought not. Time for you to come clean or tootle along, Buddha ( if ever someone took on an inappropriate name ).

 

Are you German? Germans always start their last sentence of a statement with 'finally' (I've never quite worked out why, because they always add further comments later).

[Khun Han]

3 minutes ago, whatsupdoc said:

Brexit is a lose-lose situation (only the damage for the UK will be much higher than for the EU). It is no surprise that the EU is irritated by the impossible 'have cake and eat it' attitude in the UK.

Especially the NI border issue seems the best example: how can you avoid having a hard border when you leave the CU?? Yet that is what the Tories and DUP want. Wishful thinking, but no practical solution is offered by the UK.

 

To me, a very hard Brexit seems almost inevitable because time is really running out. Perhaps the EU will be kind enough to offer the UK a Canada type trade deal, but it is going to be take it or leave it because there isn't time for anything else.

But the UK government keeps on dreaming and stalling, to the detriment of all parties. No wonder the EU gets bitter.

 

The EU doesn't want to punish the UK, it just has to  protect its own interests.

 

You make a very fair point about the Irish border. We need to go back to the Ted Heath government for explanations as to why things got so complicated. History will not be kind to Ted. Unfortunately, Ireland is going to suffer turmoil due to brexit, and the only solution is for Eire to follow the UK.

 

Hard brexit works far better for the UK than the EU (which would have to completely re-structure consequently), but the EU's political prostitutes in the UK (embedded over the last fifty years) have made such a sensible outcome impossible. Will you be attending the "Exit for Brexit" dinner at the Carlton Tower on Dec 5?

 

"The EU doesn't want to punish the UK, it just has to  protect its own interests."

 

I love the above quote. It should preface every reply to a post by a British remainer to highlight their complete lack of loyalty to their home country.

[whatsupdoc]

6 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

You make a very fair point about the Irish border. We need to go back to the Ted Heath government for explanations as to why things got so complicated. History will not be kind to Ted. Unfortunately, Ireland is going to suffer turmoil due to brexit, and the only solution is for Eire to follow the UK.

 

Hard brexit works far better for the UK than the EU (which would have to completely re-structure consequently), but the EU's political prostitutes in the UK (embedded over the last fifty years) have made such a sensible outcome impossible. Will you be attending the "Exit for Brexit" dinner at the Carlton Tower on Dec 5?

 

"The EU doesn't want to punish the UK, it just has to  protect its own interests."

 

I love the above quote. It should preface every reply to a post by a British remainer to highlight their complete lack of loyalty to their home country.

'the only solution is for Eire to follow the UK': more wishful thinking and unrealistic nonsense by a Brexiteer but still not as bad as the comment above about lack of loyalty.

[Khun Han]

Just now, whatsupdoc said:

'the only solution is for Eire to follow the UK': more wishful thinking and unrealistic nonsense by a Brexiteer but still not as bad as the comment above about lack of loyalty.

 

When the UK brexits, Eire has to make a big decision. Surely even you remainers who are putting your hands over your eyes in the forlorn hope that the EU's UK-based saboteurs can turn things around can see that?