SURVEY: School punishment, too harsh or justified?

[Scott]

In the past few months, there have been a number of threads about school punishment.   Which of the following best describes your attitude toward discipline in schools?

 

Please feel free to leave a comment about discipline in schools.  

 

Threads that may be of interest:

https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/995836-video-ubon-teacher-faces-the-sack-for-putting-shoes-on-boys-head/?page=4&tab=comments#comment-12153101

https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/995693-three-students-taken-to-hospital-after-attack-by-teacher-for-uniform-violation/?page=11&tab=comments#comment-12151127

[meinphuket]

The level and severity of punishments meted out to children is shocking...Such scum calling themselves  'teachers' would have flourished in the reign of the Khmer Rouge.

[Wilsonandson]

Hitting children teaches them to become hitters themselves.

 

Edited November 26, 2017 by Wilsonandson

[greatwhitenorth]

What  passes for corporal punishment at Thai schools is child abuse

[Myran]

The real root of the problem is the parents. Start punishing the parents when little Somchai does everything to ruin the classes, when he drives around on a modded bike and when he starts fights. A nice big fine of several thousand baht is what will make Thai parents care about bringing up well-behaved children.

[Wilsonandson]

23 minutes ago, Myran said:

The real root of the problem is the parents. Start punishing the parents when little Somchai does everything to ruin the classes, when he drives around on a modded bike and when he starts fights. A nice big fine of several thousand baht is what will make Thai parents care about bringing up well-behaved children.

I used to ruin classes by disrupting them and I used to drive around on my modded Vespa. I used to fight too in pub brawls. Had great parents who cared so much about me and gave me a fantastic upbringing, without using discipline. I guess we all go through our stages as we grow up. Most of the time I acted out was because of boredom. If I had something to focus on I kept out of trouble.

[Surasak]

30 minutes ago, greatwhitenorth said:

What  passes for corporal punishment at Thai schools is child abuse

In most cases I would agree. There are degrees of corporal punishment, but we only get to hear about the worst. A smack on the back of the hand or leg, I would accept, but caning is nothing less than abuse. Caning can lead to hate of the 'teacher', which can then, as has been said, lead to those hit, becoming hitters.

[transam]

4 minutes ago, Wilsonandson said:

I used to ruin classes by disrupting them and I used to drive around on my modded Vespa. I used to fight too in pub brawls. Had great parents who cared so much about me and gave me a fantastic upbringing, without using discipline. I guess we all go through our stages as we grow up. Most of the time I acted out was because of boredom. If I had something to focus on I kept out of trouble.

I had an SS180 Vespa back in 1967........Yes a Mod...

[rkidlad]

There's zero reason to be laying hands on a child. It's lazy and regressive. 

[transam]

2 minutes ago, rkidlad said:

There's zero reason to be laying hands on a child. It's lazy and regressive. 

Species other than humans do it to naughty offspring...I was a naughty human offspring where stuff sorted me out...

[DavisH]

Rather than a blanket ban on corporal punishment (which, in theory, there is already), teachers should be better trained at making students more accountable, and also how to make lessons more engaging. I think a lot of Thai teachers just sit them in rows and read out aloud from the textbook. Students must be quiet and listen. I couldn't imagine anything more mind-numbingly boring. Because the teacher cannot control a class when students are allowed to interact and discuss material. Schools should also be allowed to fail students, suspend them, or make them repeat a year. It can happen occasionally, but it's not very common. Students might them put in a better effort to pass their courses. 

[Myran]

45 minutes ago, Wilsonandson said:

I used to ruin classes by disrupting them and I used to drive around on my modded Vespa. I used to fight too in pub brawls. Had great parents who cared so much about me and gave me a fantastic upbringing, without using discipline. I guess we all go through our stages as we grow up. Most of the time I acted out was because of boredom. If I had something to focus on I kept out of trouble.

I'm sure they were very loving, but if you were disrupting classes, starting fights and driving around on a modded bike, they weren't doing a very good parenting job. My parents never disciplined me physically either, but I didn't act like a hooligan despite not having a lot to do growing up and despite having plenty of bad influences.

 

It's perfectly possible to "keep your kids out of trouble" without physically disciplining them.

[Machiavelli]

1 hour ago, Wilsonandson said:

Hitting children teaches them to become hitters themselves.

 

My old man hit me back in the day. He was not some incompetent compensating drunk out to soothe his ego. I was young and made a lot of mistakes and sometimes repeatedly. I was warned a zillion times before I got whacked. I have my own family now. I don't whack my kids. I am lucky my kids arent out of control. I will tell you one thing though, if my kids continue to behave in a way I consider to be dangerous for her future, I will warn a zillion times and if there is no change I will whack. They are my kids. My burden if they fail put their ducks in row. I really do not care what some liberal whose concerns for my kids doesnt go beyond the keyboard thinks. 

[rkidlad]

1 hour ago, transam said:

Species other than humans do it to naughty offspring...I was a naughty human offspring where stuff sorted me out...

You've lost me. 

[transam]

3 minutes ago, rkidlad said:

You've lost me. 

That's OK...

[csabo]

5 hours ago, Wilsonandson said:

Hitting children teaches them to become hitters themselves.

 

You highlight a hidden benefit of teaching discipline to kids for generations to come.

[quandow]

Never STRIKING a student, but to have them do 10 or 20 knee bends is embarrassing to the student, and lets them burn off some of that energy they so desperately need to.

[smccolley]

My son is not that diligent a student and when he has willfully ignored a  homework assignment,  I would not be opposed to a reasonable level of corporal punishment.

 

On the other hand, my daughter is ranked number one in the east on a number of subjects and she was spanked because another person in the class was bad. I called the teacher out on that one and it has stopped.

 

I think it depends on the student, but it takes a special teacher to know when it might be right... I don't think there are a lot of teachers in Thailand that know the difference.

[connda]

I grew up in an era of corporal punishment.  I took my licks and laughed if off as did most of us kids.  If anything, it was a right of passage.
Now we enter the era of the 'snowflakes.'  I'm glad I was raised when I was raised.  These last generations have been raised like a bed of spring pansies.  

 

BTW, I've been here and it scarred me neither physically nor mentally.  

Edited November 26, 2017 by connda

[naboo]

If parents do their job, there are rarely discipline issues at school. I've been teaching 13 years and it is clear:

 

• Students are disciplined when parents are supportive of their kids, attend school meetings regularly, talk to teachers, sanction at home in response to indiscipline at school and reward at home when performance is good.
• Students lack discipline when parents have unrealistic expectations, don't come to school, ignore teachers' concerns, refuse to accept that their child is a problem.
• Boys who's fathers are absent for periods of time can show huge differences in behaviour in times when the father is home and away. Boys with totally absent fathers are often lacking in motivation.

 

I would never hit one of my students, and wouldn't want any of my colleagues to have the option, but it would be helpful if parents took on their responsibilities fully. Thankfully, in Thailand the majority of parents are supportive of their kids and the school. The same can't be said of the UK, where more parents choose to blame the school for the indiscipline of their kids.

[duanebigsby]

People who have grown up in the era of corporal punishment seem to think, " I survived, so why are these snowflakes b1tch1ng?"

Because study after study has shown no benefit for parents or teachers to whack their kids.

 

When you say you grew up in that era and it was fine, remember it was also the era of segregated black and white hotels, restaurants, buses and toilets.

 

It was a nasty time and  the world has grown up a little.

 

[jenny2017]

 

 No way !! These monsters who hit kids might also hit their wives and kids at home.

 

           Any teachers who hit kids should be kicked out immediately. Not to an inactive post, out of teaching in general. Perhaps they can become soldiers. Such nice guys like Prayuth. Even when he looks quite innocent, I'm sure that he's violent and always tries to cover his self esteem with hitting his kids ( I hope that he doesn't have kids)

 

   There are so many other ways to make students look like idiots without physically harming them. Let them stand for a while until they calmed down. Send them to the director, that seems to work very well with me at my school.

 

  If I'm annoyed because too many teenagers, all of them between 16 and 18 are too loud, or they think they can destruct the lesson, I only have to stop talking.

 

 Then the "head students" will then make the noisy ones understand what they did wrong and they stop. If they think that they can continue  I can repeat that again and again.

 

 If foreign teachers were told that they can hit the students, and they do that, then they are in no way better than their Thai counterparts with huge bamboo sticks and should receive the same treatment. Bai Gai Gai. Fluck off!

 

  The Thai head teacher at my former school used a special treatment in form of a pen she sticked onto their heads and that really hurt the kids a lot. But that had an end when many parents showed up and she's all in a sudden in a situation to look for a new job. She changed her behaviour because she knew that we were all watching her. 

 

   There are always other ways than beating the shit out of students. If teachers don't get that, they must be replaced by teachers who understand that very easy princip.

 

   Let the children play and let them be children. teachers who hit the students should immediately lose their jobs. Without a chance to get their jobs back. Teacher, leave us kids alone wasn't made just for fun either, or?

 

 

Edited November 26, 2017 by jenny2017

[Bluespunk]

No teacher should ever strike a child. 

 

It is assault. 

 

Nothing justifies it. 

Edited November 26, 2017 by Bluespunk

[Bluespunk]

3 hours ago, connda said:

I grew up in an era of corporal punishment.  I took my licks and laughed if off as did most of us kids.  If anything, it was a right of passage.
Now we enter the era of the 'snowflakes.'  I'm glad I was raised when I was raised.  These last generations have been raised like a bed of spring pansies.  

 

BTW, I've been here and it scarred me neither physically nor mentally.  

The fact you laughed it off shows it does not work. 

 

Children need to understand why their behaviour is unacceptable. 

 

Violence (and striking a child is violence) does not do that. 

[Grumpy Duck]

11 hours ago, DavisH said:

Rather than a blanket ban on corporal punishment (which, in theory, there is already), teachers should be better trained at making students more accountable, and also how to make lessons more engaging. I think a lot of Thai teachers just sit them in rows and read out aloud from the textbook. Students must be quiet and listen. I couldn't imagine anything more mind-numbingly boring. Because the teacher cannot control a class when students are allowed to interact and discuss material. Schools should also be allowed to fail students, suspend them, or make them repeat a year. It can happen occasionally, but it's not very common. Students might them put in a better effort to pass their courses. 

In college I took an A+ computer repair class. The first one the instructor read from a textbook as lecture, Totally boring, I moved to a different college with a great program, the instructors would start classes with a discussion of our related experiences, then led to a great lecture followed by a lab. Did the same for network management and wireless networks. Next offered was an ethical hacking class. But I could not attend due to work schedule. 

My reason for mentioning this is if teachers would stimulate discussions they can open minds in any class. 

Edited November 26, 2017 by Grumpy Duck

[jaywalker]

14 hours ago, DavisH said:

Rather than a blanket ban on corporal punishment (which, in theory, there is already), teachers should be better trained at making students more accountable, and also how to make lessons more engaging. I think a lot of Thai teachers just sit them in rows and read out aloud from the textbook. Students must be quiet and listen. I couldn't imagine anything more mind-numbingly boring. Because the teacher cannot control a class when students are allowed to interact and discuss material. Schools should also be allowed to fail students, suspend them, or make them repeat a year. It can happen occasionally, but it's not very common. Students might them put in a better effort to pass their courses. 

I TOTALLY agree! I had a super cool marine biology teacher & I loved going to his class.

 

All the rest were like Ben Stein.

 

[jacko45k]

18 hours ago, Myran said:

The real root of the problem is the parents. Start punishing the parents when little Somchai does everything to ruin the classes, when he drives around on a modded bike and when he starts fights. A nice big fine of several thousand baht is what will make Thai parents care about bringing up well-behaved children.

So bring the parent in and give them a sound thrashing.

 

[Prairieboy]

19 hours ago, Wilsonandson said:

I used to ruin classes by disrupting them and I used to drive around on my modded Vespa. I used to fight too in pub brawls. Had great parents who cared so much about me and gave me a fantastic upbringing, without using discipline. I guess we all go through our stages as we grow up. Most of the time I acted out was because of boredom. If I had something to focus on I kept out of trouble.

".....without using discipline."  Think how much better of a person you could have been if you had been properly disciplined for your childish and juvenile actions!

[LazySlipper]

19 hours ago, Myran said:

The real root of the problem is the parents. Start punishing the parents when little Somchai does everything to ruin the classes, when he drives around on a modded bike and when he starts fights. A nice big fine of several thousand baht is what will make Thai parents care about bringing up well-behaved children.

IMHO the real problem is also the parents, but coming in very close second is the schools. Been here a long time and as a teacher first question I ask is, "What is the discipline policy?"

 

Most schools don't have one so I am left to improvisation. Lunchtime detention is out cos the little darlings must eat and relax. Copying lines is out because they will hate writing, even if they never have the intention of writing anything else other than their names. Timeout in the hallway is out cos you can't kick a child out.

 

The big problem is that schools are their to teach socialization and interacting with others to children. A school is meant to get the kids ready for the bigger world out their. Rather, they are taught that they live in a world without consequences. Proof to the matter, all we need to look at is the abhorrent driving demonstrated on Thai roads. Maybe if people stopped coming up with goofy child psychology theories and got back to basics their would be no survey asking about this problem because the problem wouldn't exist.

[OldSiamHand]

21 hours ago, rkidlad said:

There's zero reason to be laying hands on a child. It's lazy and regressive. 

Actually, the survey is worded in such a way that you are forced to choose the answer that schools can use punishment "under special circumstances" as opposed to "never".  To take an extreme example, what if the child is holding a knife or other instrument and is threatening another child and is about to inflict harm on that other child?  Your only option, as a teacher, is to take action that might result in the laying of hands on that child.   Those are "special circumstances" that would merit the laying of hands.  Never say never.