Bangkok police could lower city speed limits to "halve road accidents by 2020"

[poohy]

Really!!!

 

I lived in central  BKK for 11years dont think i ever got in vehicle that could even approach the speed limit due to the traffic

[Russell17au]

The speed limit in Bangkok does not need to be lowered.

The police force need a good hit in the ass with a good cattle prod and get out on the road and hit the offenders with heavy fines then the people might and I say might do something about their driving habits.

And not only Bangkok but nation wide

But then pigs might fly too

Edited November 29, 2017 by Russell17au
needed to add more detail

[Russell17au]

29 minutes ago, Mattd said:

100% true.

Enforcement is only a small part of a big puzzle, the police cannot ever be in all places at once, nor can cameras.

Most of the Thai drivers on the road have no awareness and simply do not care, they drive with zero thought for others.

Until that part changes then nothing will improve.

What is the quickest and easiest way to change the peoples attitude.

Hit them hard in the pocket and none of this coffee money business

[Evolare]

The first step would be to enforce speedlimits. And have fines related to personal income or wealth as they have in finland. Caught speeding and happend to be a millionaire. Then you get a million baht fine if your a billionaire...you get slapped witha fine that hurts on your level. If your poor you get a low fine but still at a level that hurts. But lowering speedlimits in built up areas to 50 im all for it. 30 in school areas and such im for it. But reducing the deadly highway accidents has to include other measures aswell. Not until mid 2015 where all new pickups equipped with airbags and ABS brakes and pickup trucks represent roughly 50% of all cars sold in thailand. Many of the vans that get turned into a crushed can at collision are usually copies of the toyota hiace built in china. And lack of working seatbelt in vans are also a problem.

 

I read that roughly 66 people die in traffic in thailand every day on a normal day and that the numbers are higher on public holidays. That mean your at least about 30 times more likely to die in traffic i thailand than in a country like sweden based on deaths per capita in traffic a year.

Edited November 29, 2017 by Evolare

[Mattd]

Just now, Russell17au said:

What is the quickest and easiest way to change the peoples attitude.

Hit them hard in the pocket and none of this coffee money business

Sorry, I disagree, for a couple of reasons.

1. To enforce and fine, then the offense must be seen, whether by the police or by a camera, as I stated, it is absolutely impossible to police every inch of the roads, where there is no policing they will revert, trust me, I see it daily.

2. Most Thai's simply ignore the fines, my ex. wife collected speeding tickets for fun, never paid one of them, she saw no reason why she should.

 

I do agree that proper policing and enforcement is part of the issue, but it really is not the biggest part, no by a long way.

 

Until the basic road safety education is in place for road users and their attitudes change, the rest will be history.

 

[Evolare]

And why wait to 2020 change it for 2018

[scorecard]

51 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

A serious fine. Points on your record. And an increase in your insurance would help a lot

 

 

Also meaningless when the cops give conflicting information. My German exchange students are horrified when they learn vehicles don't stop at marked pedestrian crossings, even the ones with overhead flashing lights. Several times the ex. students have asked local students 'what is the law' on this subject.

 

The Thai students are all adults, all speak excellent English so no communication barriers. The Thai students comments are usually.

 

- Yes cars have to stop but Thai people don't know the law and never read signs. 

 

- There is no actual law.

 

- On one occcasion one of the Thai students called her brother or uncle, a senior cop, and asked him to give a clear answer about the law involved.

 

His answer 'Yes the law says vehicles have to stop when the driver sees a pedestrian waiting to cross but is would be better if the pedestrian waits for a big break in the traffic because drivers want to get to their destination quickly'. In other words no really clear answer. 

 

 

Edited November 29, 2017 by scorecard

[Mattd]

Just to reinforce my thoughts, the majority (certainly not all) of foreign drivers do tend to drive with more care here than the locals, of this there is no doubt, if the poor driving here was a simple case of fining folks more, then this would not be the case, as the fine levies here are a pittance to the average Foreigner, which means they could break the law, drive like lunatics and not care because the penalties are small.

The reason that most drive reasonably carefully is because they know better and realise their own mortality.

Part of good driving skills is consideration for others.............

[Media1]

I am very confused. What police ?

[Russell17au]

2 minutes ago, Mattd said:

Sorry, I disagree, for a couple of reasons.

1. To enforce and fine, then the offense must be seen, whether by the police or by a camera, as I stated, it is absolutely impossible to police every inch of the roads, where there is no policing they will revert, trust me, I see it daily.

2. Most Thai's simply ignore the fines, my ex. wife collected speeding tickets for fun, never paid one of them, she saw no reason why she should.

 

I do agree that proper policing and enforcement is part of the issue, but it really is not the biggest part, no by a long way.

 

Until the basic road safety education is in place for road users and their attitudes change, the rest will be history.

 

Sorry, but it was tried in Australia to educate the people and the people just ignored it all but when they changed tack and increased the fines and the enforcement then the people sat up and took notice and this year Australia has reduced it road toll by 3.8% and it now stands at around 1000 for the year. The only reason your wife is getting away with it is because of lack of enforcement and record keeping.

Once you get the peoples attention with the higher fines and a proper working police force then you can bring in education and proper training with a proper learners permit system for the new drivers

[dave moir]

7 hours ago, Thaiwrath said:

As if a lot of the drivers here are going to take any notice.

It's a good idea, and hopefully, if enforced, it will reduce casualties on the roads.

Good chance of the 'fines' kitty being greatly increased too !

Traffic is at a standstill most places I've been in bkk!!!! How about Thais learning to drive properly and taking a proper driving test would be a good start as most I see have no road awareness at all!

[Mattd]

1 minute ago, Russell17au said:

Once you get the peoples attention with the higher fines and a proper working police force then you can bring in education and proper training with a proper learners permit system for the new drivers

Perhaps the reverse approach would be more useful, educate and train the drivers properly, then enforce the rules.

To let them loose on the roads with no proper training, fine the hell out of them and then train them to drive properly would be a strange way 

I have worked in Thailand for a long time, in an industry that has a very high injury potential, the biggest challenge was / is educating the Thai's to work safely, they tend not to realise that things are dangerous.

One expat GM went out and paid for (out of his own pocket) crash helmets for all of the Thai staff that were coming to work on a motorbike, on the condition that they must use it, they did, for about 3 days, within a week most had sold the helmet on, Why, because they just did not see the point of them!

 

[Russell17au]

9 minutes ago, Mattd said:

Just to reinforce my thoughts, the majority (certainly not all) of foreign drivers do tend to drive with more care here than the locals, of this there is no doubt, if the poor driving here was a simple case of fining folks more, then this would not be the case, as the fine levies here are a pittance to the average Foreigner, which means they could break the law, drive like lunatics and not care because the penalties are small.

The reason that most drive reasonably carefully is because they know better and realise their own mortality.

Part of good driving skills is consideration for others.............

I think the reason for that is that us farangs have been brought up to respect life and we went through a different driver training system than Thai's do. It is not a simple case of fining people more but that is the only way you will get their attention and then you can work on changing their attitude towards driving and the road rules. You will never change their attitudes if you do not take drastic action and hit the people where it hurts them to start with.

[Russell17au]

3 minutes ago, Mattd said:

Perhaps the reverse approach would be more useful, educate and train the drivers properly, then enforce the rules.

To let them loose on the roads with no proper training, fine the hell out of them and then train them to drive properly would be a strange way 

I have worked in Thailand for a long time, in an industry that has a very high injury potential, the biggest challenge was / is educating the Thai's to work safely, they tend not to realise that things are dangerous.

One expat GM went out and paid for (out of his own pocket) crash helmets for all of the Thai staff that were coming to work on a motorbike, on the condition that they must use it, they did, for about 3 days, within a week most had sold the helmet on, Why, because they just did not see the point of them!

 

Sorry but that approach does not work, at a commission survey recently 31% of Thai's believe that if you die in an accident the that is fate. Australia spent millions in advertising and we had news media attend fatal accidents wityh us to show the results of that type of driving but nothing worked to change the peoples attitudes until the fines were increased and also enforced and then the people were prepared to sit and listen and be educated and trained and even though Australia's road toll is around 1000 the Australia police are still not happy with that number and say it should be lower and that somewhere we are not getting the message through to them

[hotchilli]

Maybe they should introduce a law whereby all taxi vehicles are fitted with a "governor" thus restricting top speed limits!

Disabling of the restrictor would be serious jail time!

[wazzupnow]

well as i see it speed limits have not much to do with it

start fining people that drive to slow too

problem here is that there are so many snails on the road that they cause the problems for everybody

everybody drives his own velocity without considering if they are on the high way or on a back dust road

add the quantity of motor cycles and some whiskey between this and there u got your 61+

[Happyman58]

They could lower the speed limit here to 20  klms per hour and nobody will take any notice The prob is the keystone cops You can say this that everything you want to say but if you got a useless lazy police force might as well let school kids try and control and enforce the laws They  have big sign in Ubon saying speed limit 80 km per hour in traffic area Nobody sees it because they are all doing 120 klms per hour as they drive past

 

 

[sawadee1947]

8 hours ago, webfact said:

would be a good idea

yeah, exactly that. And actions? NONE so far as all others promises and plans of the Great leader

[Russell17au]

2 minutes ago, wazzupnow said:

well as i see it speed limits have not much to do with it

start fining people that drive to slow too

problem here is that there are so many snails on the road that they cause the problems for everybody

everybody drives his own velocity without considering if they are on the high way or on a back dust road

add the quantity of motor cycles and some whiskey between this and there u got your 61+

So what would you suggest, forcing a person that only got their license this morning to go out on the road a travel at 100 kph with no experience just to suit the faster drivers.

Start by fining the people who break the law, even in a civilized country like England, Australia, America a new driver is better to drive slower until they gain the experience

[wazzupnow]

1 minute ago, Russell17au said:

So what would you suggest, forcing a person that only got their license this morning to go out on the road a travel at 100 kph with no experience just to suit the faster drivers.

Start by fining the people who break the law, even in a civilized country like England, Australia, America a new driver is better to drive slower until they gain the experience

they have driver licence here? amazing thailand!!!

[MrMo]

Half the time in Bangkok you struggle to get to 50kph.   Should the BKK BIB condescend to patrol AFTER 9pm and BEFORE 7am such a limit could have a beneficial effect.

 

We get loads of analysis about how many die in accidents involving motorbikes, cars, pickups, buses, bicycles, on foot, etc. accidents (not seen any involving pogosticks, now there's a thought !) and by province but I do not recall seeing any breakdowns by type of road (toll roads, highways (duel-carriage) highways (other), ring/bypass roads, intra-town, provincial, farm, etc.) on which they occur.   Has anyone seen one ?   Google doesn't seem to.

 

And what about those who choose to drive the wrong way up the inside lane ?   Any analysis on accidents involving them ?

 

The road junctions in Buriram Mueng has recently been infested by a blight of traffic lights.   There is one 300 meter stretch of main road out of town that now has 5 sets of light.   The result is that many (primarily motorbikes, pick-ups and police vehicles) take no notice of them which negates the point of them being installed in the first place.

 

We have also been infested by a horde of CCTV cameras, some where you are left wondering WHY HERE ? with many others places raising a WHY NOT THERE ?   I don't have a problem with CCTV cameras but are they just for show like most of the Bangkok's where at one time ?   Or are they really being monitored ?   When next renewing road fund tax, are many of us going to find that a large sum needs to be paid out before new disk is issued ?

[MrMo]

6 minutes ago, wazzupnow said:

they have driver licence here? amazing thailand!!!

Of course they do !  You need a Thai driving licence to hire a golf buggy to drive around Korat zoo !

[Snig27]

Expand the Zebra crossings? Has anyone ever seen anyone stop at a Zebra crossing? Even the ones with red/green lights are ignored. 

[Oldgumshoe]

1 minute ago, Snig27 said:

Expand the Zebra crossings? Has anyone ever seen anyone stop at a Zebra crossing? Even the ones with red/green lights are ignored. 

Yes, plenty of times. All those drivers behind me, but the bikes are unaware that red means stop, as are many drivers.

[Mattd]

16 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

Sorry but that approach does not work, at a commission survey recently 31% of Thai's believe that if you die in an accident the that is fate.

And they will continue to believe this regardless of fines and it is partly why I am saying that they drive like they do.

If we are using examples, then the UK road death statistics are currently amongst the lowest in the world per capita, yet  there has been a move to go away from fines for certain offences, the offenders are now offered a one off chance to go for further training and this has proved to be quite successful in reducing the number of offences and therefore accidents, yet on the other foot there is an epidemic of drivers using vehicles on the road without insurance, this despite the fact that there are large fines, with points or driving bans, as well as the vehicle being impounded and destroyed if not claimed back within a certain period.

As I have stated and will keep on stating, policing, enforcement and fines are some of the deterrents to try and improve road safety, it is however, not the only means, you wouldn't let a person fly you in an airplane if they were not licensed and competent to do so.

If somebody goes out in a vehicle without caring if they hurt themselves or others by driving like an idiot, no amount of fines will stop this.

 

[Russell17au]

4 minutes ago, MrMo said:

Half the time in Bangkok you struggle to get to 50kph.   Should the BKK BIB condescend to patrol AFTER 9pm and BEFORE 7am such a limit could have a beneficial effect.

 

We get loads of analysis about how many die in accidents involving motorbikes, cars, pickups, buses, bicycles, on foot, etc. accidents (not seen any involving pogosticks, now there's a thought !) and by province but I do not recall seeing any breakdowns by type of road (toll roads, highways (duel-carriage) highways (other), ring/bypass roads, intra-town, provincial, farm, etc.) on which they occur.   Has anyone seen one ?   Google doesn't seem to.

 

And what about those who choose to drive the wrong way up the inside lane ?   Any analysis on accidents involving them ?

 

The road junctions in Buriram Mueng has recently been infested by a blight of traffic lights.   There is one 300 meter stretch of main road out of town that now has 5 sets of light.   The result is that many (primarily motorbikes, pick-ups and police vehicles) take no notice of them which negates the point of them being installed in the first place.

 

We have also been infested by a horde of CCTV cameras, some where you are left wondering WHY HERE ? with many others places raising a WHY NOT THERE ?   I don't have a problem with CCTV cameras but are they just for show like most of the Bangkok's where at one time ?   Or are they really being monitored ?   When next renewing road fund tax, are many of us going to find that a large sum needs to be paid out before new disk is issued ?

I'm sorry MrMo but your post is of no interest to anyone because you are talking about Buriram and no body deies there or any where else but in Bangkok so there is no need to do anything outside Bangkok because the people out there are not important. This is another proven case of the laws only being suited to Bangkok. The other one was that there were to be no more check points except for breathalyzer but that is only for Bangkok. If they did away with those check points and released those police and gave them cars and decent motorbikes to patrol the roads and enforce the law properly then maybe there would be a national reduction in the road toll and not just in Bangkok

[Russell17au]

6 minutes ago, Mattd said:

And they will continue to believe this regardless of fines and it is partly why I am saying that they drive like they do.

If we are using examples, then the UK road death statistics are currently amongst the lowest in the world per capita, yet  there has been a move to go away from fines for certain offences, the offenders are now offered a one off chance to go for further training and this has proved to be quite successful in reducing the number of offences and therefore accidents, yet on the other foot there is an epidemic of drivers using vehicles on the road without insurance, this despite the fact that there are large fines, with points or driving bans, as well as the vehicle being impounded and destroyed if not claimed back within a certain period.

As I have stated and will keep on stating, policing, enforcement and fines are some of the deterrents to try and improve road safety, it is however, not the only means, you wouldn't let a person fly you in an airplane if they were not licensed and competent to do so.

If somebody goes out in a vehicle without caring if they hurt themselves or others by driving like an idiot, no amount of fines will stop this.

 

Unfortunately UK road deaths have just hit a 5 year high so something has gone wrong. US has increased but Australia's has decreased. That tells me that Australia is doing something right because they are actively reducing the road toll. If they were not doing anything right then their road toll would not be reducing, but it is, what are they doing that is successful that the other countries are not doing especially Thailand.

[ttl]

Mukdahan example,  curvy city street,double yellow centre line,very narrow street but parking on both sides ,usually full which really cuts it down to one way road  Lovely speed sign 80kph   not far from police station

Only police seen  in city are at school close times( for 10 minutes)555555

[Mattd]

An interesting document here, that emphasizes what is needed to improve road safety anywhere.

 https://www.pwc.com/m1/en/publications/road-safety/pwc-guide-on-reducing-road-fatalities.pdf

[skorp13]

Love the OP, should have been saved for 1 April