Flynn pleads guilty on Russia; reportedly ready to testify on Trump

[Credo]

I think this sort of sums it up:

 

Edited December 2, 2017 by Credo

[ilostmypassword]

58 minutes ago, lannarebirth said:

 

Not a Nothing Burger but if this:

 

http://www.businessinsider.com/michael-flynn-trump-russia-abc-news-mueller-2017-12

 

is the full extent of what he may testify to, I'm not sure there's a Whopper here either.

Do you think the government would have dropped so many charges against Flynn if that's all he had? Why would they do that?

[riclag]

52 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

 

I have a business in the US, that is primarily online. In the past, when the stock market was at an all time high, and the real estate values were very high, consumer confidence was very high, and people were spending money. Not the case now. Consumer confidence is way, way down. Too much uncertainty brought on by the circus clown, and the money does not seem to be trickling down. Sure, those that own alot of stock are doing well. But, the average middle class person in the US is really struggling. And God forbid you should be a member of the lower class, which now amounts to 29% of American households, and is growing daily. The middle class is shrinking, while the upper class is expanding, as is the lower class. So, America is increasingly becoming an economically polarized nation. 

 

Now, the real question. Why is the stock market doing so well? In my opinion, it has alot of to do with companies cutting their expenses. At the expense of their employees. Benefits, compensation, pensions, health insurance, etc. Also, the customer service has nearly disappeared in the US. That is additional corporate savings. Lastly, the tax loopholes for US corporation are substantial, and they will only get larger with the new tax cuts, which will benefit mostly the wealthy, and the corporations, at the expense of the middle and lower classes. Way to go Don. Pass on the wealth. Make your people poorer. Nice job. 

 

On to the topic at hand, Flynn is filthy. And he is only the tip of the iceberg, within the swamp administration. 

The data suggested consumer spending remained fairly strong early in the fourth quarter.

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/15/us-retail-sales-oct-2017.html

 

The stock market and why its doing so well in my opinion is because of tax reform expectation which will produce more consumer spending and US  corporation's confidence in the economy .

 

"Tax-reform expectations have been a key catalyst for stocks since President Donald Trump's election, along with hopes of deregulation".

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/10/02/us-stocks-fourth-quarter-trump.html

 

 You said "Way to go Don. Pass on the wealth. Make your people poorer. Nice job". 

 

Your forgetting one fact! Bringing back US companies from outside the US ,"An estimated $2.6 trillion in American corporate profits is sitting in overseas bank accounts, about half of that in cash".this will all come back and be reinvested into the US "In short, it's a lot of money. And it's money not being spent on new plants or technology".

http://money.cnn.com/2017/11/03/news/companies/romans-numeral-overseas-cash/index.html

[lannarebirth]

8 minutes ago, riclag said:

The data suggested consumer spending remained fairly strong early in the fourth quarter.

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/15/us-retail-sales-oct-2017.html

 

The stock market and why its doing so well in my opinion is because of tax reform expectation which will produce more consumer spending and US  corporation's confidence in the economy .

 

"Tax-reform expectations have been a key catalyst for stocks since President Donald Trump's election, along with hopes of deregulation".

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/10/02/us-stocks-fourth-quarter-trump.html

 

 You said "Way to go Don. Pass on the wealth. Make your people poorer. Nice job". 

 

Your forgetting one fact! Bringing back US companies from outside the US ,"An estimated $2.6 trillion in American corporate profits is sitting in overseas bank accounts, about half of that in cash".this will all come back and be reinvested into the US "In short, it's a lot of money. And it's money not being spent on new plants or technology".

http://money.cnn.com/2017/11/03/news/companies/romans-numeral-overseas-cash/index.html

 

Better than rewarding companies for repatriating retained earnings would be to penalize them for not doing so.

[riclag]

1 hour ago, spidermike007 said:

But anyone who knows anything about Trump, his nature, or his background will suggest otherwise. Personally, I believe there is no depth this creton will stoop to, to advance his personal agenda, gain more wealth, or more power. Nothing he will not do. So, it does not take much imagination to consider that he was probably personally involved in this act, by participating with a near enemy, to influence the election. In some countries, this would be considered an act of treason, punishable by death.

What is a  creton ?  You said "Personally, I believe there is no depth this creton" . 

While you voice your opinion hinging on imagination, I prefer to use fact's like in one of my previous post's.

Edited December 2, 2017 by riclag

[retarius]

Funny old world isn't it? Mueller was hired to look into Russian interference with the election. He has come up with nothing at all so far.

Manafort and partner's alleged crimes were historical 5 years before the election.

Papadopoulos may have things to say, but he has admitted lying already, which weakens him as a witness, and the professor who supposedly had all the Russian contacts and dirt has denied his statements. And digging for dirt is not an offense....as we say with Hillary paying for the dodgy dossier from Fusion GPS.

Now Flynn has provided evidence that after the election they were searching for a backdoor to speak securely with Russia as Trump Tower did not have secure communications. One would imagine that if there was this massive conspiracy in the run up to the election that a backdoor channel to Russia would already have been established to plan the conspiracy, there fore why the need to create a channel after the election. It makes no sense.

So far I am underwhelmed with Mueller and frustrated for I would like to see Trump impeached....but impeach him for real crimes not imagined ones with Russia as the bogeyman.

Mueller should use his power to mount a fishing expedition into Trump's finances...there will without doubt be tax evasion and fraud in prior finances.

[craigt3365]

7 minutes ago, retarius said:

Funny old world isn't it? Mueller was hired to look into Russian interference with the election. He has come up with nothing at all so far.

Manafort and partner's alleged crimes were historical 5 years before the election.

Papadopoulos may have things to say, but he has admitted lying already, which weakens him as a witness, and the professor who supposedly had all the Russian contacts and dirt has denied his statements. And digging for dirt is not an offense....as we say with Hillary paying for the dodgy dossier from Fusion GPS.

Now Flynn has provided evidence that after the election they were searching for a backdoor to speak securely with Russia as Trump Tower did not have secure communications. One would imagine that if there was this massive conspiracy in the run up to the election that a backdoor channel to Russia would already have been established to plan the conspiracy, there fore why the need to create a channel after the election. It makes no sense.

So far I am underwhelmed with Mueller and frustrated for I would like to see Trump impeached....but impeach him for real crimes not imagined ones with Russia as the bogeyman.

Mueller should use his power to mount a fishing expedition into Trump's finances...there will without doubt be tax evasion and fraud in prior finances.

Mueller was brought in to investigate ties between Russia and Trump and his people. He found that. It's been proven.

 

More to come. Take a look at this.

http://edition.cnn.com/interactive/2017/politics/trump-russia-connections/index.html?utm_source=The+Point+with+Chris+Cillizza&utm_campaign=326679db02-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2017_12_01&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_a4165679e3-326679db02-84748553

[Credo]

6 minutes ago, retarius said:

<Snipped>

So far I am underwhelmed with Mueller and frustrated for I would like to see Trump impeached....but impeach him for real crimes not imagined ones with Russia as the bogeyman.

Mueller should use his power to mount a fishing expedition into Trump's finances...there will without doubt be tax evasion and fraud in prior finances.

You may be underwhelmed, but it seems that some people, including Flynn, are feeling overwhelmed.   

 

Mueller has kept a very tight lid on his team and what they are doing.   For all we know he is well into Trump's finances.   Trump at one point said that Mueller was to keep out of his financial affairs and I suspect he said that because Mueller already was looking at his finances.   

[selftaopath]

1 hour ago, Thaidream said:

Step by step- inch by inch -each indictment of  Trump's henchmen brings it closer to the Moron In Chief. Flynn bargained for a lesser charge but he gave up plenty to save his skin and his son's skin.  nothing can save Trump now- not even if he fires Mueller which will push the country into a constitutional crisa ala Watergate.

Trump is guilty of hell of at least obstruction of justice and possibly even collaboration with a foreign entity to sabotage the US election. As more and more evidence comes forward- it will be leaked to the press and the country will start to pressure their representatives in Congress. Once they smell blood- they will turn on Trump like cornered rats and vote for Impeachment. Once Trump knows he is finished he will pardon everyone involved-including himself and resign.

Until that happens, America is saddled by a narcissistic meglomaniac who is doing nothing positive for America And its people. Like one of the posters stated- the middle class is being pushed into the lower middle class and the poor expanding.  The wealthy are become more wealthy and the current tax bill a disgrace allowing the already wealthy to obtain more money off the backs of the middle class and poor.

Donald Trump has not done one thing positive to help the American people or even proposed anything that will remotely bring America back to greatness. 

So true and after these pathetic politicians pass the Trump Tower Tax Plan the divide will be even greater.

 

There might be one thing to look forward to however... Time.

 

[riclag]

10 minutes ago, retarius said:

Funny old world isn't it? Mueller was hired to look into Russian interference with the election. He has come up with nothing at all so far.

Manafort and partner's alleged crimes were historical 5 years before the election.

Papadopoulos may have things to say, but he has admitted lying already, which weakens him as a witness, and the professor who supposedly had all the Russian contacts and dirt has denied his statements. And digging for dirt is not an offense....as we say with Hillary paying for the dodgy dossier from Fusion GPS.

Now Flynn has provided evidence that after the election they were searching for a backdoor to speak securely with Russia as Trump Tower did not have secure communications. One would imagine that if there was this massive conspiracy in the run up to the election that a backdoor channel to Russia would already have been established to plan the conspiracy, there fore why the need to create a channel after the election. It makes no sense.

So far I am underwhelmed with Mueller and frustrated for I would like to see Trump impeached....but impeach him for real crimes not imagined ones with Russia as the bogeyman.

Mueller should use his power to mount a fishing expedition into Trump's finances...there will without doubt be tax evasion and fraud in prior finances.

 You said "Mueller was hired to look into Russian interference with the election. He has come up with nothing at all so far". I agree.

 You said "Mueller should use his power to mount a fishing expedition into Trump's finances...there will without doubt be tax evasion and fraud in prior finances".

 

Don't you think that PT has all of his tax duck's in  a row! Especially since he traditionally gets audited almost every year? 

[craigt3365]

7 minutes ago, riclag said:

 You said "Mueller was hired to look into Russian interference with the election. He has come up with nothing at all so far". I agree.

Sadly, you are wrong. Muller was hired to look into Russian connections. The election was just one small part, as proven by Flynn's charge. And many others with direct connections to Trump.

 

It's just the beginning. Hold on.

 

Seems all those saying this was a witch hunt look foolish now.  LOL

[Samui Bodoh]

16 minutes ago, retarius said:

Funny old world isn't it? Mueller was hired to look into Russian interference with the election. He has come up with nothing at all so far.

Manafort and partner's alleged crimes were historical 5 years before the election.

Papadopoulos may have things to say, but he has admitted lying already, which weakens him as a witness, and the professor who supposedly had all the Russian contacts and dirt has denied his statements. And digging for dirt is not an offense....as we say with Hillary paying for the dodgy dossier from Fusion GPS.

Now Flynn has provided evidence that after the election they were searching for a backdoor to speak securely with Russia as Trump Tower did not have secure communications. One would imagine that if there was this massive conspiracy in the run up to the election that a backdoor channel to Russia would already have been established to plan the conspiracy, there fore why the need to create a channel after the election. It makes no sense.

So far I am underwhelmed with Mueller and frustrated for I would like to see Trump impeached....but impeach him for real crimes not imagined ones with Russia as the bogeyman.

Mueller should use his power to mount a fishing expedition into Trump's finances...there will without doubt be tax evasion and fraud in prior finances.

I like your post and share the desire to see Trump impeached properly.

 

"Mueller was hired to look into Russian interference with the election. He has come up with nothing at all so far."

 

The operative words here are 'so far'. Every expert that I see on TV says that we have seen perhaps 5-10% of what Mueller knows, and I would guess that is high. The FBI has been investigating since June (?) of last year; they will have a huge case file.

 

"Manafort and partner's alleged crimes were historical 5 years before the election."

 

True. However, now Mueller has leverage and by all accounts he is willing to use it. Stay tuned.

 

"Papadopoulos may have things to say, but he has admitted lying already, which weakens him as a witness, and the professor who supposedly had all the Russian contacts and dirt has denied his statements. And digging for dirt is not an offense....as we say with Hillary paying for the dodgy dossier from Fusion GPS."

 

Actually, digging for dirt from a foreign country IS a crime (campaign law violation). And no, what Hillary did was to contract an American; it is different because there is no direct contact.

 

"Now Flynn has provided evidence that after the election they were searching for a backdoor to speak securely with Russia as Trump Tower did not have secure communications. One would imagine that if there was this massive conspiracy in the run up to the election that a backdoor channel to Russia would already have been established to plan the conspiracy, there fore why the need to create a channel after the election. It makes no sense."

 

The conspiracy, IF One Exists, could be a simple quid pro quo with details developed later. And respectfully, why was there a need to create a backdoor channel? Who were they hiding from? The only people that it seems they were hiding from were other Americans, and that is very weird and disturbing.

 

"Mueller should use his power to mount a fishing expedition into Trump's finances...there will without doubt be tax evasion and fraud in prior finances."

 

I'd say it is an even bet that Mueller has Trump's tax returns.

 

Overall, when you are discussing the impeachment and removal of a US President, you MUST do it right as it is as serious as a heart attack to override the democratic will of the electorate. Further, at the moment at least, the Congress is controlled by the Republican party and you have to demonstrate to THEM that it is necessary. If you can only convince the opposition (at the moment the Democrats), then you shouldn't do it.

 

It is going to take some time;get used to that. However, after today I do believe that the time is coming, but it'll take a while to get there.

[Grouse]

delta Tango's coup de grace when it comes will be swift and met with cheers from all civilised people and me ?

[riclag]

22 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

Mueller was brought in to investigate ties between Russia and Trump and his people. He found that. It's been proven.

 

More to come. Take a look at this.

http://edition.cnn.com/interactive/2017/politics/trump-russia-connections/index.html?utm_source=The+Point+with+Chris+Cillizza&utm_campaign=326679db02-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2017_12_01&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_a4165679e3-326679db02-84748553

The link you have has a statement

"Here is a summary of known connections between Trump associates and Russia".

Since when is it a crime to have connections to Russia?

 

Congressman Peter King sits on the  House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence says to date there is no evidence  that the Trump Campaign where involved in Russian interference.

[Thakkar]

2 hours ago, riclag said:

 According to this article "Flynn became the first member of Trump's administration to plead guilty to a crime uncovered by the wide-ranging special counsel investigation into Russia's alleged attempts to influence the election and potential collusion by Trump aides".

 

 But Trump's Lawyer said on Michael Flynn: 'Nothing About the Guilty Plea or the Charge Implicates Anyone' Else but Mr. Flynn.

http://www.nydailynews.com/newswires/news/national/white-house-lawyer-ty-cobb-flynn-guilty-plea-implicates-trump-white-house-article-1.3670409

 

To suggest that President Trump or anyone in the WH is guilty of collusion to influence the election is simply not true.

 

From:

“nothing to do with Russia”

to:

(at least) 30 KNOWN contacts by (at least) 8 high high level Trump Campaign operatives.

 

ALL of which they first failed to report as required, then denied, then lied about, then lied about the substance of, then down played the importance of, then finally admitted to.

 

Nothing suspicious there!

 

So this is now the latest defense: “Flynn didn’t collude wi5 the Russians to rig the election, he colluded with them *after* the election! That’s not so bad, is it?”

 

Yes it is, because by now the intelligence agencies had already informed Trump and his top aides that Russia had interfered in the elections. The sanctions were a direct response to that interference. For the third highest ranking member of the winning team to tell the head of the Russian spy network that interfered on their behalf not to worry about sanctions related to that interference—to give this assurance on behalf of the incoming administration, secretly and then lie about it—yeah, that’s a <deleted>ing big deal.

 

Edited December 2, 2017 by Thakkar

[craigt3365]

33 minutes ago, riclag said:

The link you have has a statement

"Here is a summary of known connections between Trump associates and Russia".

Since when is it a crime to have connections to Russia?

 

Congressman Peter King sits on the  House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence says to date there is no evidence  that the Trump Campaign where involved in Russian interference.

Good gosh. Not worth a reply.

[riclag]

1 hour ago, craigt3365 said:

Sadly, you are wrong. Muller was hired to look into Russian connections. The election was just one small part, as proven by Flynn's charge. And many others with direct connections to Trump.

 

It's just the beginning. Hold on.

 

Seems all those saying this was a witch hunt look foolish now.  LOL

As a special counsel, Mr. Mueller can choose whether to consult with or inform the Justice Department about his investigation. He is authorized to investigate “any links and/or coordination between the Russian government and individuals associated with the campaign of President Donald Trump,” according to Mr. Rosenstein’s order naming him to the post, as well as other matters that “may arise directly from the investigation.” He is empowered to press criminal charges, and he can request additional resources subject to the review of an assistant attorney general.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/17/us/politics/robert-mueller-special-counsel-russia-investigation.html

 

But further research has found  that the order of Rothstien

directed Muellar to investigate election interference . 

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/05/17/us/politics/document-Robert-Mueller-Special-Counsel-Russia.html

 

None of these crimes committed by Manaford ,Gates ,Papadopoulos and Flynn are linked to the  Russian interference with the election anything short of that is incidental ("accompanying but not a major part of something").

Edited December 2, 2017 by riclag

[wayned]

And the Senate just passed the new  tax reform bill that supposedly reduces taxes for the middle income.  If you quickly redo Trump's last tax return that is publicly available,2005, his tax savings is about 31 million dollars!  Now that's a crime!!!

[riclag]

34 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

Good gosh. Not worth a reply.

But further research has found  that the order of Rothstien Letter

directed Muellar to investigate election interference . This further suggest the whole scope of the investigation was for the purpose of election . On the contrary,it's not small after all

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/05/17/us/politics/document-Robert-Mueller-Special-Counsel-Russia.html

Edited December 2, 2017 by riclag

[selftaopath]

2 hours ago, riclag said:

The data suggested consumer spending remained fairly strong early in the fourth quarter.

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/15/us-retail-sales-oct-2017.html

 

The stock market and why its doing so well in my opinion is because of tax reform expectation which will produce more consumer spending and US  corporation's confidence in the economy .

 

"Tax-reform expectations have been a key catalyst for stocks since President Donald Trump's election, along with hopes of deregulation".

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/10/02/us-stocks-fourth-quarter-trump.html

 

 You said "Way to go Don. Pass on the wealth. Make your people poorer. Nice job". 

 

Your forgetting one fact! Bringing back US companies from outside the US ,"An estimated $2.6 trillion in American corporate profits is sitting in overseas bank accounts, about half of that in cash".this will all come back and be reinvested into the US "In short, it's a lot of money. And it's money not being spent on new plants or technology".

http://money.cnn.com/2017/11/03/news/companies/romans-numeral-overseas-cash/index.html

You said ,"this will all come back and be reinvested." Is this a hope or a guarantee? Will you let us know when this starts? 

How about this:

 

[selftaopath]

2 hours ago, riclag said:

The link you have has a statement

"Here is a summary of known connections between Trump associates and Russia".

Since when is it a crime to have connections to Russia?

 

Congressman Peter King sits on the  House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence says to date there is no evidence  that the Trump Campaign where involved in Russian interference.

There are many useful videos on Youtube e.g.

 

[craigt3365]

1 hour ago, selftaopath said:

Have you seen this?

 

This is a must watch for all. Especially for Trump supporters. Please. Watch this.

[dunroaming]

12 hours ago, FreddieRoyle said:

Before the anti-Trump brigade start getting too excited, yeees Trump fired Flynn for lying. We knew this months ago. Nothing to see here. We are not any more on the cusp of being on the cusp than we were were last year. This obsession with Russia got tiresome long ago. Time the msm started focusing on the real stories like record highs on the markets, unemployments down, and a judicial system mired in the swamp.

Markets are falling chum, some say crashing!  Kushner is almost certainly first on the target list and then hopefully Trump.  Impeachment is the goal but... that would come from the senate that is mostly republican.  Would they really impeach a republican president?  I certainly hope so.  I am sure for FR the Russia obsession is getting tiresome but for the rest of us it is getting more interesting!  The world (and most of the decent Americans out there) are hoping that this momentum will build and finally be the death nail for the moronic POTUS. 

[FreddieRoyle]

15 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

Markets are falling chum, some say crashing!  Kushner is almost certainly first on the target list and then hopefully Trump.  Impeachment is the goal but... that would come from the senate that is mostly republican.  Would they really impeach a republican president?  I certainly hope so.  I am sure for FR the Russia obsession is getting tiresome but for the rest of us it is getting more interesting!  The world (and most of the decent Americans out there) are hoping that this momentum will build and finally be the death nail for the moronic POTUS. 

Falling and crashing.

[ilostmypassword]

1 minute ago, FreddieRoyle said:

Falling and crashing.

Yes, if you're a rich person, the stock market is very important to you. For the rest, not so much. And one big reason the stock market is doing so well, is that investors were counting on a huge increase in dividends thanks to the Republican Tax plan. And yes, the economy itself is doing well. But what has that got to do with Trump? What economic programs did he pass that boosted the economy. Janet Yellen has a lot more to do with it and Trump decided not to renew her as the chair of the Fed.

What the improvement in the economy  has got a lot to do with is the fact that the EU is now doing well and has given a big boost to the world economy. Or is the recovery of the EU economy also due to Trump? Is Trump magic?

[dunroaming]

11 minutes ago, FreddieRoyle said:

Falling and crashing.

The markets are reacting to the news about Flynn.  Do try to keep up!

[FreddieRoyle]

1 minute ago, ilostmypassword said:

Yes, if you're a rich person, the stock market is very important to you. For the rest, not so much. And one big reason the stock market is doing so well, is that investors were counting on a huge increase in dividends thanks to the Republican Tax plan. And yes, the economy itself is doing well. But what has that got to do with Trump? What economic programs did he pass that boosted the economy. Janet Yellen has a lot more to do with it and Trump decided not to renew her as the chair of the Fed.

What the improvement in the economy  has got a lot to do with is the fact that the EU is now doing well and has given a big boost to the world economy. Or is the recovery of the EU economy also due to Trump? Is Trump magic?

Ok, so a rising stock market is a bad thing and another thing to harangue Trump for ? I see.

One wonders if during Obamas tenure you would have made the same patently silly claim?

Seriously Trump could make world peace, end all poverty and reverse global warming and people would still be harping on about Russia this Russia that. Russia did not swing an election, time to accept and move on.

[dunroaming]

30 minutes ago, FreddieRoyle said:

Falling and crashing.

The markets are reacting to the news about Flynn.  Do try to keep up!

 

The Telegraph today:   The claim sent the US stock market tumbling and brought the Russian election scandal a step closer to the Oval Office in a dramatic day in Washington.

Edited December 2, 2017 by dunroaming

[Scott]

Troll posts and replies removed.  

[Morch]

17 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

Given the (relatively) minor charges that Flynn has pled guilty to, it is virtually certain that he has 'flipped' and is prepared to testify against others. And who might the others be? Traditionally, a person will 'flip' to testify against someone higher up, and the only people higher up are either Trump himself or his family.

 

I do believe that this is the beginning of the end. Fynn was there from early on, through the campaign, through the period before taking office, and during the initial stages of the administration. Further, he was widely known to be very close to Trump and his family. Finally, he was there for almost every detail and every conversation; some might think that Trump did everything legally, I seriously doubt that.

 

The end of the long, global nightmare is coming... Finally.

 

 

But also a rude awakening in store, if all the dirty laundry goes public.